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bballwizard05
06-28-2011, 11:30 PM
Well it seems like it should be legal. I went down the flow-chart. It is shorter than 26" in its shortest configuration but it isn't fire-able in that configuration? Does that still make it illegal? I don't really want it, I would if it were in 20 guage. But just an interesting shotgun, thought I'd ask.


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=238304553

Quiet
06-29-2011, 7:12 PM
Yes, it is legal.

The seller thinks it's illegal in CA because of the folding stock.

bigpappa0095
06-29-2011, 7:48 PM
the auction does not state why the seller won't ship to ca

plumbum
06-29-2011, 8:50 PM
the auction does not state why the seller won't ship to ca

Oh that is easy: ignorance :rolleyes:

Utha Schleigle
07-09-2011, 1:09 AM
Yes I want one also. Butt the .410 gauge / 45 long colt chambered guns have been a BOZO NONO for a while. I want The Judge Taurus revolver with a 6" barrel.

But basically it is a shotgun that is under length - under in overall length and in barrel length.

http://www.google.com/search?q=taurus+judge&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7SKPB_en&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PBoYToTGGI2CsQPMlpDxDQ&ved=0CHgQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=647

http://www.georgiagunstore.com/gun_store_products/Handguns-Taurus-TAURUS_JDG_45_410_65_5RD_MSTS.html

prc77
07-09-2011, 4:06 AM
Oh that is easy: ignorance :rolleyes:

yep

Arisaka
07-09-2011, 11:50 AM
I thought CA required 30" oal?

ke6guj
07-09-2011, 12:26 PM
I thought CA required 30" oal?why would you think that?

CA's SBS and SBR laws require 26" OAL, and case law says that that is measured in its shortest fireable configuration.

mceod
07-09-2011, 12:27 PM
I thought CA required 30" oal?

That's for rifles IIRC

-hanko
07-09-2011, 5:15 PM
That's for rifles IIRC
:confused::rolleyes:

That's for what the PRK defines as "assault" rifles...for other rifles as well as shotguns, prk follows federal law with a 26" minimum length. Feds consider that measurement with the stock unfolded, prk with the stock folded.

hth

-hanko

QQQ
07-09-2011, 5:49 PM
gunbroker: no place is more full of unjustified anti-CA asshattery. Avoid it.

You never see people refusing sales to Hawaii or Massachusetts or New Jersey, which in some ways and places are more restrictive than most places in CA.

Utha Schleigle
07-10-2011, 1:38 PM
I thought for length in CA for shotguns is - mininum shotgun barrel 18" and overall 28".

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=330320&highlight=legal+length
May not like this thread - take a look.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=360115&highlight=legal+length
May be over kill but why not. What does barrel measured from the bolt face - mean anyway.

bballwizard05
07-10-2011, 1:53 PM
gunbroker: no place is more full of unjustified anti-CA asshattery. Avoid it.

You never see people refusing sales to Hawaii or Massachusetts or New Jersey, which in some ways and places are more restrictive than most places in CA.



Hard to avoid gunbroker... I have a few local kitchen table FFl's that are VERY reasonable.

mtsul
07-10-2011, 1:56 PM
why would you think that?

CA's SBS and SBR laws require 26" OAL, and case law says that that is measured in its shortest fireable configuration.

Wait for all guns or just shotguns? I have a AK under folder that is 27 with the muzzle break on it does that mean its legal? with the stock folded? I thought it was OAL of 30+???

give me the good news!!:D

Utha Schleigle
07-10-2011, 2:06 PM
I would assume the legal length in a fire-able condition.

So if the prossecution LOOSES your muzzel device - it should measure to the minuim length. In the ablove threads I posted ---- I decided to make my centerfire rifle project should be 31" ---- as if the authorities wanted not play fair.

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff141/UtgaSchleigle/furniture%20stocks/100_9284-4x10.jpg
31+ inches without muzzel device or recoil padd. CA LEGAL {in my opinion}

ke6guj
07-10-2011, 2:17 PM
Wait for all guns or just shotguns? I have a AK under folder that is 27 with the muzzle break on it does that mean its legal? with the stock folded? I thought it was OAL of 30+???

give me the good news!!:D
I was talking about SBS/SBR laws, not AW laws. CA has SBS/SBR law that says that <26" is illegal. Case law has determined that that OAL measurement is done with the stock folded/collapsed.

The AW 30" rule is separate from that, but it is assumed that that existing case law would apply to the 30" rule as well.



I would assume the legal length in a fire-able condition.

here is the case law on the subject, http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/people_v_rooney.txt

some key points:

It would defeat the purpose of the statute to
allow possession of weapons that can be concealed during part of a
criminal enterprise and only extended for more reliable use when
needed. [footnote 2]


That a fixed stock is included in the measurement
of a conventional rifle in no way compels the conclusion that a
detachable or folding stock-which can be easily moved to make the
weapon concealable-must be so included. Indeed, to hold that a
detachable or folding stock must be included would be contrary to
section 12020 subdivision (c)(2)(C), which includes within the
definition of short-barreled rifle "any weapon made from a rifle
(whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon
has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels
of less than 16 inches in length."


These cases do not
stand for the proposition that detachable or folding stocks must
always be included in the measurement of a firearm, but rather that
a concealable weapon which can very easily and quickly be made
shoulder-fireable is illegal. To find illegal a shoulder-fireable
weapon which can quickly and easily be made concealable is
consistent with those rulings, and with the purpose of the law.
The judgment is affirmed.

Utha Schleigle
07-10-2011, 11:58 PM
Thank You - usefull information.

Hilldweller
07-20-2011, 12:48 PM
These cases do not
stand for the proposition that detachable or folding stocks must
always be included in the measurement of a firearm, but rather that
a concealable weapon which can very easily and quickly be made
shoulder-fireable is illegal. To find illegal a shoulder-fireable
weapon which can quickly and easily be made concealable is
consistent with those rulings, and with the purpose of the law.
The judgment is affirmed.

So, you have an Remington 870 with an 18" barrel, the total measurement from tip to end on the frame and barrel assembly is 25" - so no matter what you add to it (pistol grip wise) will take it above the 26" benchmark - making it legal to replace the stock with a pistol grip right?

However the third quote seems to indicate that if you mounted one of those old "LE Only" folding stocks on it, then it would become illegal - right?

Thanks for any clarification.

Signed, Dazed and Confused.......again.....

crackerman
07-20-2011, 2:26 PM
Hild and utha. A weapon should be measured along the axis parrell to the barrel from permanent muzzle end to end of stock or pistol grip. A stock 870 should be measured with a pistol grip or stock since the receiver with nothing to hold onto is unfireable (realistically).

Utha barrel measure from breech means you close the action and stick a rod down the barrel. Measure the rod from where is sticks out the permanent muzzle end that length is your lrgal barrel length

Barbarossa
07-20-2011, 2:42 PM
Wait is that a bedazzled AK with a 2x4 stock?