PDA

View Full Version : What would you do if a Calgunner swapped internals before selling you a gun???


trob
06-28-2011, 8:49 PM
I am so pissed right now. Not because of the amount of money, but because of the blatant dishonesty encountered with a seller recently. I have had nothing but great experiences with Calgunners and this one really put a bitter taste in my mouth. Here's what I wrote in his feedback.

This seller posted an ad for a complete factory RRA Varmint which comes with the 2-stage match trigger (this would be my first AR, so i wanted a complete gun). He was asking 1,000 for everything including the bipod, rings, and scope. He said it was 100% stock (which comes with match trigger) and I offered 800 without any accessories (bipod, scope, rings), which i felt was a fair offer. Seller accepted and we did the transfer. I go to shoot the rifle for the first time and the seller had stolen the 2-stage match trigger and replaced it with a 9lb single stage piece of crap. I contacted the seller and he had the balls to say that I agreed to buy the rifle without the trigger (which is complete bull****). I explicitly wanted the rifle because this calgunner stated that it was 100% as it was from the factory. The 2-stage match trigger was a hefty selling point of buying the Varmint model. The was separated from the upper when he brought it (thats how it fits in the RRA Case), and I had no reason to believe it was not what I wanted (he said it was just like it left the factory). This seller stole $130 in internal parts before selling this gun. Thats like selling a car and stealing precision engine parts and swapping them for inferior products hoping the buyer wouldnt notice.

This seller is dishonest and should make things right. Of course, the seller said he already sold the trigger, but this calgunner needs to make it right. I put my trust in him, and he set me up with a thief.

Tom

The seller is AR-Man-15
Here is the deal thread:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=395133

I would recommend never doing business with him. He only comes on here to sell, so hopefully this will save someone the aggravation.

iskra31
06-28-2011, 9:17 PM
Thanks for the heads up...sorry for the misfortune.

morfeeis
06-28-2011, 9:21 PM
What a scum bag, how did the buyer pay? if credit/debit card he could always do a charge back......

Maltese Falcon
06-28-2011, 9:22 PM
Bad karma will catch up...thanks for the notice.

.

motorwerks
06-28-2011, 9:26 PM
thats dirty.

Dark Mod
06-28-2011, 9:28 PM
Bummer, sorry you had a bad experience. I will be wary of any sale posted "for a friend", the friend has no itrader rating, and it just seems a little weird that he cant make a calguns account himself and sell it under his own name. Kind of a bummer that the seller is taking the wrap for something his friend did but thats what you get when you vouch for a scumbag.

socal-shooter
06-28-2011, 9:33 PM
the sellers thread doesnt mention such a trigger on it

Scratch705
06-28-2011, 9:35 PM
the sellers thread doesnt mention such a trigger on it

if i read the OP right, the RRA Varmint model comes with that 2 stage trigger stock.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228

paul0660
06-28-2011, 9:37 PM
Who did the transfer, ar man 15 or the "friend"?

glock_this
06-28-2011, 9:37 PM
But the seller also edited his post so maybe that was edited?

Also IF this weapon comes stock with 2stage & it was said to be 'stock' I'd expect it.

frankm
06-28-2011, 9:42 PM
Did you give him a negative rating?

paul0660
06-28-2011, 9:44 PM
Did you give him a negative rating?

He did. And I still don't know who did the transfer, the OP or the "friend" owner.

sbkarmen
06-28-2011, 9:52 PM
just because they're on calguns doesn't make him a true calgunner, so many crooks on here its not even funny, in fact they're all on here just to scam us out of money. And some of them are protected by the "grey" area rules. This is why my original username was removed from classified because I couldn't take bullsheet from a seller trying to sell counterfeit crap in misleading ways.

CenterX
06-28-2011, 9:59 PM
Very Sad - but no matter where you are on the universe

caveat emptor

jeffrice6
06-28-2011, 9:59 PM
What would you do if a Calgunner swapped internals before selling you a gun?

Well I can tell you what I did when this happened to me:

I left a negative feedback for the POS Calgunner. So in responce he left a retaliatory negative on my Itrader..... I contacted the mods to have them remove this unwarranted feedback, but no dice! The mods just changed both to Neutral and labeled them "under review" 2 years later I still have this blemish on my ITrader

joelogic
06-28-2011, 10:01 PM
Any reason there was a 4 month delay in the feedback? Did you try the trigger when you did the transfer? Just trying to see the other side.

paul0660
06-28-2011, 10:03 PM
Any reason there was a 4 month delay in the feedback? Did you try the trigger when you did the transfer? Just trying to see the other side.

Lots of questions.

762.DEFENSE
06-28-2011, 10:06 PM
:ban: What a tool! Thanks for the heads up. That's another one for the ignore list.

smattenson
06-28-2011, 10:09 PM
I tell you what I would want my money back at least enough to make the transaction fair. I tell you what that is why I place such an importance when I sell people guns to let them check the gun out that day and I have no problems letting a smith look at it where we are at. I personally feel swapping parts is the same as stealing, and I truly hope the person who did this unjust act man's up! Truly comes back to treating others how they would like to be treated. But think of it this way some douche will most likely do the same to him one day (karma sucks) and he'll know how it feels. Ya you should have checked it out but hey live and learn brotha.

luckystrike
06-28-2011, 10:10 PM
Any reason there was a 4 month delay in the feedback? Did you try the trigger when you did the transfer? Just trying to see the other side.

I wouldnt be too suspicious about the delay, I traded an AR for a supposedly functioning AK, I went to fire it 5 months later, turns out it wouldnt cycle a single damn round and he says "it was fine when I had it." he didnt give a ****. to the OP I know how you feel man.

joelogic
06-28-2011, 10:32 PM
Not suspicious, just curious.

bjl333
06-28-2011, 10:34 PM
if i read the OP right, the RRA Varmint model comes with that 2 stage trigger stock.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=228

+1 ... Scum!! I do want to hear his side of the stock rifle story tho .....

Ed_Hazard
06-28-2011, 10:35 PM
Contact the Mods get him banned from the marketplace.

AlliedArmory
06-29-2011, 12:04 AM
Contact the mods. Even if he edited his posts, the mods can see what was edited. If it was a misunderstanding, he should come here and chime in on what his side of the story is.

And yes, the RRA Varmint comes stock with the 2-stage trigger, but you should always check it out before doing the transfer.

And why so long to post this? That thread died in Feb.

PyroFox79
06-29-2011, 12:26 AM
You should have checked out the rifle completely before you started the DROS. Maybe to him the trigger was an accessory. Kinda sounds to me like both of you are at fault.

jeffrice6
06-29-2011, 1:53 AM
You should have checked out the rifle completely before you started the DROS. Kinda sounds to me like both of you are at fault.

While I see you are new here to Cal-Guns..... At one time this was an honorable place for transactions! God willing, it will be again!!!

supersonic
06-29-2011, 6:51 AM
Until A) The OP makes even a single response (still waiting......) B) It is proven whether or not the rifle was truly advertised as coming w/ the RRA trigger (or "Stock" Varmint) C) It is proven whether or not the original sale post was indeed edited to omit certain things after the fact, and D) A reasonable explanation is given as to the extremely long delay between purchase & complaint - I say for everyone to reserve judgment. This very well could be a "spat" that doesn't even involve a purchase. Look at "join dates." Even though I have a "less-than-enthusiastic" view of anyone who joins CGN solely to plug/sell, the seller did have a uniformly perfect iTrader record prior to this.

glock_this
06-29-2011, 7:06 AM
Trob here you go :)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=450040

EvolutionGSR
06-29-2011, 7:28 AM
Trob here you go :)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=450040



Ha thanks for he plug. I just want to let it be known that i am not he seller or the sellers friend who sold the rifle. I still have my varmint wih its 2 stage intact.

evidens83
06-29-2011, 8:16 AM
Karma will catch up to him...

trob
06-30-2011, 11:36 AM
Sorry for the delay. I rode my motorcycle out to phoenix (bad idea during the day) and Im staying with my brother who doesnt have internet. im at starbucks right now on their wifi.

What a scum bag, how did the buyer pay? if credit/debit card he could always do a charge back......
i was the buyer, cash

He did. And I still don't know who did the transfer, the OP or the "friend" owner.
the friend, but the CGer vouched for him and had the same "i dont care" attitude.

Any reason there was a 4 month delay in the feedback? Did you try the trigger when you did the transfer? Just trying to see the other side.

Its a flat top upper with no scope. I had been waiting to find that complete rifle for a long time, so i bought it and had to wait to buy a scope so i could shoot it.

I wouldnt be too suspicious about the delay, I traded an AR for a supposedly functioning AK, I went to fire it 5 months later, turns out it wouldnt cycle a single damn round and he says "it was fine when I had it." he didnt give a ****. to the OP I know how you feel man.

this +1

Basically, it was just a scumbag move. Yes, i should have checked the trigger when doing the transfer. I guess i should have checked every internal part for legitimacy too. Regardless, like i said, it put a bad taste in my mouth and I enjoyed it much better when I, at least somewhat, trusted sellers.

Its not about the money, its the principal of the matter. I just bought a RRA 2-stage match trigger from Parallax Tactical to get my rifle back up to par (by the way, that place is awesome, great service :D)

thanks for the replies guys. I know there are the nay-sayers or doubters, but it is pretty clear what happened. Im pretty over it though. There will always be dishonest people in this world and I just wanted to post this to be a reminder to you guys.

CK_32
06-30-2011, 11:55 AM
Seller: I'm selling a cobra mustang with a air turbo 5 speed


Car gets sold and you end up with a gt with a A/T with 400,000 miles.


You just got screwed and would notify the mods asap. That's false advertising and bait and switch.

trob
06-30-2011, 12:08 PM
Seller: I'm selling a cobra mustang with a air turbo 5 speed


Car gets sold and you end up with a gt with a A/T with 400,000 miles.


You just got screwed and would notify the mods asap. That's false advertising and bait and switch.

Im sure the mods have seen this thread. should i still contact one of them? which one?

dfletcher
06-30-2011, 1:11 PM
Sorry for the delay. I rode my motorcycle out to phoenix (bad idea during the day) and Im staying with my brother who doesnt have internet. im at starbucks right now on their wifi.


Basically, it was just a scumbag move. Yes, i should have checked the trigger when doing the transfer. I guess i should have checked every internal part for legitimacy too. Regardless, like i said, it put a bad taste in my mouth and I enjoyed it much better when I, at least somewhat, trusted sellers.

Its not about the money, its the principal of the matter. I just bought a RRA 2-stage match trigger from Parallax Tactical to get my rifle back up to par (by the way, that place is awesome, great service :D)

thanks for the replies guys. I know there are the nay-sayers or doubters, but it is pretty clear what happened. Im pretty over it though. There will always be dishonest people in this world and I just wanted to post this to be a reminder to you guys.

I checked the RRA website - that model comes with the 2 stage only, so to say it's their 16" Varmint model it must follow that the 2 stage is included - otherwise, it isn't really their Varmint model.

If the deal was "I don't want that other stuff = lower price" the trigger should have remained untouched - it isn't "other stuff" it's a standard part of that model gun.

Generally $89.00 will get you a replacement.

hcbr
06-30-2011, 1:43 PM
that's just straight out shady , it just puts a bad name to the rest of us who are trying to sell honestly. I would demand money back or pursue other measures so he'll at least give you some type of compensation. yeeash!

chead
06-30-2011, 2:19 PM
That is Not Cool. Ban.

Dhena81
06-30-2011, 2:41 PM
We need the mods to chime in here and look at his edited post then ban him and give the buyer a screen shot so he can take this guy to court if he desires and of course is legitimate.

CK_32
06-30-2011, 2:52 PM
Im sure the mods have seen this thread. should i still contact one of them? which one?

Anyone I contact mach69 the most just because I see him active more than others. And yes... You don't wait for the cops to come to the crime you call the cops when the crime is happening. The mods are pike the police here they take the responsibility to host classifieds they take the responsibility for making sure it gets handled just short of going to court.

We need the mods to chime in here and look at his edited post then ban him and give the buyer a screen shot so he can take this guy to court if he desires and of course is legitimate.

+1

I'd take pics and save all of your texts messages and posts from and to this user for court because I doubt he's going to give in and that sounds like a major law violation. Make sure you do it NOW before he edits or changes the posts... Take screen shots or pictures if possible quotes won't hold up due to being able to be changed.

Ledbetter
06-30-2011, 2:58 PM
If the gun was represented as stock, and the stock version comes with a 2-stage trigger, and the gun you were sold doesn't have that trigger, isn't that FRAUD?

aermotor
06-30-2011, 3:40 PM
You didn't inspect the firearm and trigger before you bought it.....?

What's all the talk of a ban. Sounds like a misunderstanding and I think before anyone says anything they accused should hav a chance to defend himself. There's some strong talk in here about how Calguns used to be honest, hang him high etc. which I think is uncalled for.

And seriously, who waits 4+ months to then post this rant thread? I'm not hating on anyone, simply trying to take a neutral stance until all the facts are here.

CK_32
06-30-2011, 4:25 PM
You didn't inspect the firearm and trigger before you bought it.....?

What's all the talk of a ban. Sounds like a misunderstanding and I think before anyone says anything they accused should hav a chance to defend himself. There's some strong talk in here about how Calguns used to be honest, hang him high etc. which I think is uncalled for.

And seriously, who waits 4+ months to then post this rant thread? I'm not hating on anyone, simply trying to take a neutral stance until all the facts are here.

Because I've been screwed when I use to be in paintball. Little sneaks and rats think they can advertise and say gun runs perfect and you agree on $700 and you get the gun and it leaks and doesn't shoot right and they go oh well it worked when I sent it out... It's like yea right and then theygive you the run around and then have the balls to say it's your fault and your f up when they are just doing dirty business. It's bs! And needs to be said and stopped.

aermotor
07-01-2011, 10:48 AM
Firearms are different. They aren't shipped to your door. You get them and inspect BEFORE you do the paper and transfer. If something is not as stated then you refuse the weapon or work something out. I don't get what's so hard to understand. Sounds like the OP didn't even check it out before doing the dros which is his biggest mistake. I'm not saying the guy didn't screw him, but this is easily preventable by simply inspecting before dros.

Rob454
07-01-2011, 11:18 AM
You should of inspected the firearm. That said, you made the same mistake I did and what a lot of others made before you and will make after you You simply blindly trusted someone. personally i think the seller owes you whatever trigger came on the rifle from the factory OR the amount of money you need to buy that trigger. Unless he SPECIFICALLY told you that he is removing the two stage trigger and replacing it with a single stage and you AGREED to the change out you were misled by the seller. Unless he can produce correspondence between the two of you stating the trigger change was agreed upon then I would say you were wrong to bring this up.
Negative itrader IMO is warranted

While I enjoy the site and like the info that is available when I buy something now I learned my lesson and i either inspect the item or have it inspected.

Good luck getting the money or the trigger out of the seller.

greasemonkey
07-01-2011, 11:26 AM
Nice, you're giving advice on classifieds ethics re: new forum members. That's rich!

Until A) The OP makes even a single response (still waiting......) B) It is proven whether or not the rifle was truly advertised as coming w/ the RRA trigger (or "Stock" Varmint) C) It is proven whether or not the original sale post was indeed edited to omit certain things after the fact, and D) A reasonable explanation is given as to the extremely long delay between purchase & complaint - I say for everyone to reserve judgment. This very well could be a "spat" that doesn't even involve a purchase. Look at "join dates." Even though I have a "less-than-enthusiastic" view of anyone who joins CGN solely to plug/sell, the seller did have a uniformly perfect iTrader record prior to this.

stitchnicklas
07-01-2011, 1:34 PM
a sad sad day when this happens here...

PyroFox79
07-01-2011, 3:31 PM
While I see you are new here to Cal-Guns..... At one time this was an honorable place for transactions! God willing, it will be again!!!

Would you buy a car off someone with out having it inspected by a mechanic first? Make sure that what you are buying is what you agreed upon if not do not continue with the transaction. It's quite simple really.

mspiredm3
07-01-2011, 4:58 PM
Put a link to your signature to this thread, warning more people.

trob
07-05-2011, 12:10 PM
Ok, finally got back to some internet.

Anyone I contact mach69 the most just because I see him active more than others. And yes... You don't wait for the cops to come to the crime you call the cops when the crime is happening. The mods are pike the police here they take the responsibility to host classifieds they take the responsibility for making sure it gets handled just short of going to court.



+1

I'd take pics and save all of your texts messages and posts from and to this user for court because I doubt he's going to give in and that sounds like a major law violation. Make sure you do it NOW before he edits or changes the posts... Take screen shots or pictures if possible quotes won't hold up due to being able to be changed.

Its not worth my time for $100 to get the police involved. I gave them a chance to make it right, and they refused. This thread is basically a "FYI - Lesson learned" type of thing. I made the mistake of not checking the trigger, but like i said, it is pretty damn clear what happened. Regardless of what i didnt do, that doesnt justify the sellers actions.

motorwerks
07-05-2011, 12:59 PM
http://www.dvdverdict.com/images/reviewpics/judgejudy02.jpg

:D

cabinetguy
07-05-2011, 2:11 PM
they say dont look a gift horse in the mouth, but the opposite is also true. inspect what you are buying period.

Donk310
07-05-2011, 3:32 PM
OK… so getting back to the question of WHAT WOULD ONE DO IF……? What I would do is make sure the next time I bought… or for that matter, EVERYTIME I buy on the internet, I use a credit card. Like one already mentioned, you have protection that way. Looks like this time you got jacked. Calguns is honest/dishonest blah blah yada yada is bull. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE!! For now, I think you have to suck it up and remember the lessons learned.

Donk310
07-05-2011, 3:34 PM
Ok, finally got back to some internet.



Its not worth my time for $100 to get the police involved. I gave them a chance to make it right, and they refused. This thread is basically a "FYI - Lesson learned" type of thing. I made the mistake of not checking the trigger, but like i said, it is pretty damn clear what happened. Regardless of what i didnt do, that doesnt justify the sellers actions.

You already got jacked for the trigger. Don't let yourself get jacked for $100 too. If you want a report done, I will do one right now (for $10) and email it to you.

rattlesnake_nm
07-05-2011, 7:10 PM
$89 shipped for a new trigger. Lesson learned. At least You are not out a more expensive trigger.

daveinwoodland
07-05-2011, 7:39 PM
I see allot of comments regarding "didn't you check it out before accepting it". Seriously who would do that in that minutia? Who here has torn down something you bought in good faith from someone beorehand?

Ripping someone off is plain and simple fraud. Nothing more, nothing less.

vintagearms
07-05-2011, 7:43 PM
I see allot of comments regarding "didn't you check it out before accepting it". Seriously who would do that in that minutia? Who here has torn down something you bought in good faith from someone beorehand?

Ripping someone off is plain and simple fraud. Nothing more, nothing less.

THIS>

gun toting monkeyboy
07-06-2011, 9:05 AM
Ok, you have the seller's information, or at least the FFL that did the transfer does. Get that, send him a certified letter of demand saying you want the trigger or cash value of it. When he blows you off, take his *** to small claims court. The odds are good that he won't even show. Get the judgement and have them garnish his wages. See if you can get the cost of filing rolled into the judgement as well. No point in being nice and letting it go.

-Mb

wilafur
07-06-2011, 9:25 AM
i don't get how some people are saying it is a misunderstanding. the rifle was advertised as X, thus the buyer expected X.....but the buyer got Y. this is FRAUD.

i've purchased a few firearms from CG'ers and all have been smooth transactions. not many people will take down and inspect every aspect of the firearm during the PPT process. i typically field strip to make sure the major components look decent and button her back up.

sucks this happened to the buyer and i hope things are made right.