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1lostinspace
06-27-2011, 4:41 PM
How do I co witness my irons with a red dot on an AK or Saiga?

radioed22
06-27-2011, 4:45 PM
The best way I have seen is the MI optic specific rail.

1lostinspace
06-27-2011, 5:08 PM
hmmm i ll check it out

Bug Splat
06-27-2011, 8:59 PM
Only good way IMO is with a Ultimak. There are other co-witness mounts that replace the top cover but you need to remove them to clean your rifle. That's a deal breaker for me.They don't hold zero 100%. Ultimak is set-n-forget.

chead
06-27-2011, 9:22 PM
I've got both the MI rail and the Ultimak and even with the T-1 mount a Primary Arms dot won't co-witness on the MI top cover. But the Ultimak gets really really hot. I put the PA dot on a QD mount. Chin weld required but I don't burn my hands.

Airrixd
06-27-2011, 9:37 PM
I got the MI US Palm rail for my father's day gift. Put it on my AK74 this afternoon and I like the out come.

My initial thoughts: It co-witnesses but it's less than 1/3. The reticle emitter at 4 o'clock blocks off a bit of the sight but shooting with two eyes open is not an issue. Can't say much about holding zero yet because I have yet to shoot it with the new rails. I can say it's very solid with no wiggles. I'll have a range report when I fix my loose muzzle break (on that note: if anyone knows of a good gun smith to redo the tig welde on my muzzle break, please send me a PM).

here are some pic via-iphone

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l106/airrix/gun/2308ce7d.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l106/airrix/gun/03b5c268.jpg

chead
06-27-2011, 10:04 PM
What distance is your rear sight set on? I couldn't get any co-witness at all with that set up.

Airrixd
06-27-2011, 10:14 PM
What distance is your rear sight set on? I couldn't get any co-witness at all with that set up.

it's set at 1

chead
06-27-2011, 11:17 PM
Weird, I keep mine at 1 also and the PA dot is about 1/16th of an inch too high.

SJgunguy24
06-27-2011, 11:22 PM
I did a deal where I milled out the rear sight and installed a rail in it's place. I run HK sights on that rifle and can get a co witness.

pyro3k2
06-27-2011, 11:33 PM
This will Co-witness http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-scopes/red-dot/original-pk-01-va-military-red-dot-rifle-weapon-scope-w-brightness-adjustment-detachable-ak-side-mount-and-standard-30-mm-tube.html

chead
06-27-2011, 11:38 PM
This will Co-witness http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-scopes/red-dot/original-pk-01-va-military-red-dot-rifle-weapon-scope-w-brightness-adjustment-detachable-ak-side-mount-and-standard-30-mm-tube.html

I was actually looking at these the other day. Have you used them? I'm.. curious about the quality. I do have scope from Belarus that I like, though, so maybe I need to just get over it.

pyro3k2
06-28-2011, 12:12 AM
I was actually looking at these the other day. Have you used them? I'm.. curious about the quality. I do have scope from Belarus that I like, though, so maybe I need to just get over it.

They build them like tanks, the optic could probably take a round or two and keep working. There are only two very small down sides, you may have to shim your side rail to fit. The most common and succesful shim is a soda/beer can. Just cut it match and it solves that problem, and the other being it takes AAA batteries. Neither of which are deal breakers but just little things to keep in mind. After using one and seeing for myself that it 1/3's co-witnesses im going to pick one up for my next AK.

1lostinspace
06-28-2011, 2:57 PM
This will Co-witness http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-scopes/red-dot/original-pk-01-va-military-red-dot-rifle-weapon-scope-w-brightness-adjustment-detachable-ak-side-mount-and-standard-30-mm-tube.html

WTF! I can almost buy another Saiga!

pyro3k2
06-28-2011, 5:49 PM
WTF! I can almost buy another Saiga!

Ultimak rail set up - $98 + PA red dot ($100) = $198 before taxes. You won't be able to easily remove your gas tube for cleaning if you are running corrsive ammo which is a bit of a turn off for me

MI hand guard set up - $124 for the rail + a100 for PA red. = $224 before taxes and you still have to disassemble your hand guard to remove the gas tube for cleaning yet again another turn off.

Kalinka set up - $279 you get the side mounting system with a 30mm ring, and the russian equivalent of an Aimpoint. I've used both of them in the past and I can confidently say they are equal to aimpoints in quality, but obviously not in battery life. You can even field strip the rifle with the optic still on.

TWS set up - $140 + $40 for the rear peep sight + 100 for the PA red dot = $280 before taxes. All the advantages of the kalinka set up and more!

For me personally I would go with the bottom 2 options, but to be honest all the listed above sets are good to go and you will enjoy all of them.

todd2968
06-28-2011, 5:55 PM
Saiga .223 I have a similar scope. I use a laser in the chamber and merged the 2 dots through the scope. I have yet to shoot it this weekend I hope.

Airrixd
06-28-2011, 11:15 PM
Ultimak rail set up - $98 + PA red dot ($100) = $198 before taxes. You won't be able to easily remove your gas tube for cleaning if you are running corrsive ammo which is a bit of a turn off for me

MI hand guard set up - $124 for the rail + a100 for PA red. = $224 before taxes and you still have to disassemble your hand guard to remove the gas tube for cleaning yet again another turn off.

Kalinka set up - $279 you get the side mounting system with a 30mm ring, and the russian equivalent of an Aimpoint. I've used both of them in the past and I can confidently say they are equal to aimpoints in quality, but obviously not in battery life. You can even field strip the rifle with the optic still on.

TWS set up - $140 + $40 for the rear peep sight + 100 for the PA red dot = $280 before taxes. All the advantages of the kalinka set up and more!

For me personally I would go with the bottom 2 options, but to be honest all the listed above sets are good to go and you will enjoy all of them.

correction:
Ultimak rail set up (http://primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=1302&categoryId=419) - $162.99 (before tax & ship)

MI hand guard set up - $189.99 (http://primaryarms.com/product.sc?productId=1461&categoryId=419) (before tax & ship)