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kamagong
06-27-2011, 7:59 AM
This isn't for me, it's for a friend who wants me to help him pick out an AR. I already have a couple, and if it were up to me I would just get him a midlength BCM and be done with it. However, he did ask me to help him because he wanted the "best" AR. I told him there was no such thing, but that I would get him a top notch weapon, one that would be limited only by the shooter.

The two candidates are the BCM 16" midlength and the Noveske Light Recce Basic 16". The BCM will be a complete rifle, while Noveske will be utilizing a stripped lower with a G&R Tactical LPK. Whatever rifle is chosen it will be fitted out with Magpul MOE furniture.

IMO these guns are so close in quality that it's basically a toss-up. The Noveske might have a slight advantage because of its barrel. On the other hand, it costs ~ $100 more. The reason I'm asking is I want to know which manufacturer carries more cachet. I figure that he might as well get the gun with greater brand recognition in case he ever decides to sell it later on.

Thanks.

HK Dave
06-27-2011, 8:03 AM
Noveske > BCM

Spearo
06-27-2011, 8:12 AM
LWRC > Noveske > BCM

CK_32
06-27-2011, 8:35 AM
LWRC > Noveske > BCM

This^ but for me BCM and Noveske are super close and for the price I go BCM first

themailman
06-27-2011, 8:39 AM
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f198/glockfire/Guns%20and%20Gear/DSC01555.jpg

MTG Firearms
06-27-2011, 8:46 AM
Both are excellent choices. Noveske would be my choice though.

HK Dave
06-27-2011, 9:14 AM
I'd chose Noveske over LWRC any day. But that's my personal preference.

Bigbird19
06-27-2011, 9:18 AM
LMT=Noveske=Larue=LWRC>BCM

$P-Ritch$
06-27-2011, 9:21 AM
I have not experience with BCM, but I am extremely happy with the quality and performance of my 16" Recce upper.

Harley
06-27-2011, 9:22 AM
Noveske, dont care for BCM too much. If it were me, personally I'd get a Larue..:)

RMTactical
06-27-2011, 10:02 AM
Hard to go wrong either way. Both make quality AR15's.

ArkinDomino
06-27-2011, 10:06 AM
Noveske or BCM? Pffffft!

Get a Stag!

;)

762.DEFENSE
06-27-2011, 11:27 AM
BCM solely for the price. If price isn't an option and you want that kind of "AR Status" then get a Noveske.

MrExel17
06-27-2011, 12:43 PM
I agree with all members all good rifles and all is self perference. But since your asking I would pick Noveske!

l0rdr0ck
06-27-2011, 1:13 PM
Noveske,

Awesome support, i like the rollmark better, new lowers are nice with flared magwells
and flared trigger guard. I gladly pay them my money and don't look back.

RoundEye
06-27-2011, 2:00 PM
Just to morph this thread a little more. I don't get it, with all things being equal (twist, material, ...) what makes Noveske, LWRC, Or BCM better than Stag, RRA, CMMG, JD Machines, etc? I mean, milspec is milspec right? So what makes one better than another?

JackOfBlades
06-27-2011, 2:19 PM
Just to morph this thread a little more. I don't get it, with all things being equal (twist, material, ...) what makes Noveske, LWRC, Or BCM better than Stag, RRA, CMMG, JD Machines, etc? I mean, milspec is milspec right? So what makes one better than another?

Honestly i don't believe there's any significant difference. They should all function relatively the same. Buy what you like best.

thevic
06-27-2011, 2:24 PM
My noveske (not so) basic 14.5" with battlecomp is just sexy! Ohh and the paintex markings. Makes me a true god. :P

http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab248/vpsmedeiros/IMG_3564.jpg
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab248/vpsmedeiros/IMG_3566-noserial.jpg

HK Dave
06-27-2011, 3:22 PM
Just to morph this thread a little more. I don't get it, with all things being equal (twist, material, ...) what makes Noveske, LWRC, Or BCM better than Stag, RRA, CMMG, JD Machines, etc? I mean, milspec is milspec right? So what makes one better than another?

Milspec is milspec... however "milspec" is not the end all...

Milspec does not take into account things like accuracy, quality of machining, fit, etc...

Noveske goes above and beyond milspec... as for Larue... it isn't completely milspec... but i'd take it over a "milspec" rifle any day.

Wow i wrote milspec 8 times.

EvolutionGSR
06-27-2011, 3:38 PM
In the end the extra 100 isnt that much relatively to the complete price. Since you would be building it out of. Non noveske lower, the noveske might be cheaper when complete.

But i would go for the novelty of having a complete rifle from bcm if he is concerned with that, which sounds like something he would consider.

Arnelcheeze
06-27-2011, 3:40 PM
Noveske or BCM? Pffffft!

Get a Stag!

;)
+1 Stags rule!

dieselpower
06-27-2011, 3:41 PM
why do you care what other people think. If I were you I would ignore anyone who doesn't like any manufacturer without stating a solid reason.

after they state that solid reason, the gloves come off and we have a 4 page hissy fit where the bashers and haters pile on the guys who don't buy into the childish sales pitches. (I am not bias am I...LOL)

If you know who BCM and Noveske are, then you already know its a Prime Rib vs T-Bone debate. Both names mean little...its the cook and what it taste like that matters.

Your BCM can be golden...your BCM can be garbage....same with Nov...and guess what...it doesn't matter cuz both will bend over backwards to make it right.

stop worrying over a name...

vintagearms
06-27-2011, 3:47 PM
I own both the Noveske and the BCM. I went with the Noveske first, then the BCM. That would be my suggestion. The Noveske barrel is worth the extra $100 to me.

Spearo
06-27-2011, 3:47 PM
89HEefl1KI4

evidens83
06-27-2011, 4:20 PM
At least this question isn't as apples to oranges as the Daniel Defense or Del-Ton? thread lol...

Honestly I would save the money and go with BCM. Unless you already have a Noveske lower of course.

HK Dave
06-27-2011, 4:25 PM
The first lesson I learned over the years was... JUST BUY BOTH. You're probably going to eventually. Then you can make the comparison for yourself and sell what you don't want.

The next and more important lesson I learned over the years... you should be spending more on ammo and education.

Noah3683
06-27-2011, 4:32 PM
Just to morph this thread a little more. I don't get it, with all things being equal (twist, material, ...) what makes Noveske, LWRC, Or BCM better than Stag, RRA, CMMG, JD Machines, etc? I mean, milspec is milspec right? So what makes one better than another?

Well for one both things you listed aren't equal in all but CMMG. CMMG also makes 1in9 twist barrels so they are not always the same either. All those others use inferior barrel steel. Noveske actually uses the best with the double chrome lined m249 saw barrels. Then there is the fact that those companies also take their QC and service to that next level.

Noah3683
06-27-2011, 4:35 PM
I loved my Noveske, but it is far more ammo picky than BCM or Daniel Defense. It doesn't like that tula crap if you are in a bind trying to grab some quick ammo for a shoot. As much as I love it's accuracy, I sold the upper to buy another Daniel Defense upper. DD = MFG. BCM and Noveske = Assemblers.... just sayin

thevic
06-27-2011, 4:35 PM
Junk this idea and do some precision shooting with a rem 700

Dirty506
06-27-2011, 4:40 PM
price to the side noveske. BCM more bang for your buck

Colt-45
06-27-2011, 4:48 PM
Go with Noveske BUT buy the Noveske parts and build it yourself. It seems like Noveske charges +$400-$500 to have their magical hands put it together.

The only Noveske part that you wont find is the lower parts kit, Noveske contracts those parts out to different companies. Some parts of the lpk are made by CMT(Stag) and some parts by others. Go with a high quality lower parts kit like Daniel Defense or LWRC and you can't go wrong.

I loved my Noveske, but it is far more ammo picky than BCM or Daniel Defense. It doesn't like that tula crap if you are in a bind trying to grab some quick ammo for a shoot. As much as I love it's accuracy, I sold the upper to buy another Daniel Defense upper. DD = MFG. BCM and Noveske = Assemblers.... just sayin

What kind of upper was it? Was it a midlenght?

Noah3683
06-27-2011, 4:54 PM
Go with Noveske BUT buy the Noveske parts and build it yourself. It seems like Noveske charges +$400-$500 to have their magical hands put it together.

The only Noveske part that you wont find is the lower parts kit, Noveske contracts those parts out to different companies. Some parts of the lpk are made by CMT(Stag) and some parts by others. Go with a high quality lower parts kit like Daniel Defense or LWRC and you can't go wrong.



What kind of upper was it? Was it a midlenght?
No it was a 14.5" carbine, but a shooting friend has a light recce and it was about the same. Shoots everything just fine other than tula and rem umc. It will shoot them both decent with a carbine buffer, but not flawless. Plus I feel they should shoot it all in it's intended configuration IE: H buffer

LuciusKang
06-27-2011, 4:59 PM
I can tell that this is a Noveske dominated thread, but my BCM 1:7 16" carbine owns.

kamagong
06-27-2011, 5:07 PM
The first lesson I learned over the years was... JUST BUY BOTH. You're probably going to eventually. Then you can make the comparison for yourself and sell what you don't want.

Already ahead of you. My two ARs are a BCM/LMT mixmaster carbine and a Noveske Light Recce with a G&R Tactical LPK.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9606/personalweapons2.jpg


why do you care what other people think. If I were you I would ignore anyone who doesn't like any manufacturer without stating a solid reason.

after they state that solid reason, the gloves come off and we have a 4 page hissy fit where the bashers and haters pile on the guys who don't buy into the childish sales pitches. (I am not bias am I...LOL)

If you know who BCM and Noveske are, then you already know its a Prime Rib vs T-Bone debate. Both names mean little...its the cook and what it taste like that matters.

Your BCM can be golden...your BCM can be garbage....same with Nov...and guess what...it doesn't matter cuz both will bend over backwards to make it right.

stop worrying over a name...

See below.

This isn't for me, it's for a friend who wants me to help him pick out an AR...

The reason I'm asking is I want to know which manufacturer carries more cachet. I figure that he might as well get the gun with greater brand recognition in case he ever decides to sell it later on.

It looks like Noveske is the winner here. I suspected it would be, but I wanted to take a quick poll first before advising my buddy.

I redid my calculations and the Noveske is going end up costing ~ $200 more than the BCM build. Noveske is no longer shipping their uppers with a BUIS, so he'd have to pick one up.

I may just end up showing him the cost of the two builds and explaining the difference. He can then decide if he wants the more desirable and slightly more accurate Noveske or if he wants to save some money and get the BCM.

Thanks again for the help.

Noah3683
06-27-2011, 5:11 PM
If I were to start all over again from my experiences with each rifle it would be 1. Daniel Defense 2. BCM 3. Noveske, and honestly Spikes could even edge Noveske here due to value

Colt-45
06-27-2011, 5:40 PM
No it was a 14.5" carbine, but a shooting friend has a light recce and it was about the same. Shoots everything just fine other than tula and rem umc. It will shoot them both decent with a carbine buffer, but not flawless. Plus I feel they should shoot it all in it's intended configuration IE: H buffer

Damn. Must of been a lemon.

When I first purchased my Diplomat AR Pistol we poured 200 rounds into a box, mixed it up and loaded up mags. I don't like guns that are picky with ammo. Quality ammo will not always be available to shoot.

We mixed PMC, Remington UMC from Walmart, Winchester white box, Bear, Wolf and Fiocchi. Regular buffer. No problems and the rounds were falling into a nice little pile. I must be lucky I guess.

kendog4570
06-27-2011, 5:45 PM
Krieger.

CK_32
06-27-2011, 5:48 PM
BCM = F150

Noveske = BMW


One is a work truck but can look good is washed and cleaned up. The BMW is the car if you have to take a dirt road your going to cry the whole way there... Do you want a work horse you can best but can still look good or bragging rights and a picture pretty rifle. Pretty much how it works with the 2.

Noah3683
06-27-2011, 5:55 PM
Damn. Must of been a lemon.

When I first purchased my Diplomat AR Pistol we poured 200 rounds into a box, mixed it up and loaded up mags. I don't like guns that are picky with ammo. Quality ammo will not always be available to shoot.

We mixed PMC, Remington UMC from Walmart, Winchester white box, Bear, Wolf and Fiocchi. Regular buffer. No problems and the rounds were falling into a nice little pile. I must be lucky I guess.My same experiences with Daniel Defense and BCM. In fact my DD is a 14.5 middy which are more common to have problems with under gassed ammo. We shot 400 rds of tula without a hiccup and the hundred we fed the Noveske probably only had about a 80-85% success rate. that was with the carbine buffer. It was about a 20% success rate with the H buffer supplied by Noveske. I sent it in, they said it was fine. Had Randall look at it, and everything appeared in spec to him as well.

Colt-45
06-27-2011, 5:57 PM
BCM = F150

Noveske = BMW


One is a work truck but can look good is washed and cleaned up. The BMW is the car if you have to take a dirt road your going to cry the whole way there...

For those that are selling a kidney or their left nut to buy a Noveske I agree with that statement. Others can afford to purchase a Noveske/Bmw and treat it like a BCM/F150.

JockItch
06-27-2011, 6:00 PM
LMT CQB MRP Defender Piston 16 5.56. Mine is a shooter. It devours wolf,tula and everything I put threw it.

$P-Ritch$
06-27-2011, 6:03 PM
I loved my Noveske, but it is far more ammo picky than BCM or Daniel Defense. It doesn't like that tula crap if you are in a bind trying to grab some quick ammo for a shoot. As much as I love it's accuracy, I sold the upper to buy another Daniel Defense upper. DD = MFG. BCM and Noveske = Assemblers.... just sayin

What kind of upper was it? Was it a midlenght?

No it was a 14.5" carbine, but a shooting friend has a light recce and it was about the same. Shoots everything just fine other than tula and rem umc. It will shoot them both decent with a carbine buffer, but not flawless. Plus I feel they should shoot it all in it's intended configuration IE: H buffer

I was going to ask the same thing. I have the 16" midlength Recce upper with a H buffer and if functions just fine with Tula. That's strange that yours and your friends don't eat the cheap stuff, maybe mine is just extra special :). What kind of lube are you guys using? I started using TW-25 a few years ago and never looked back. Grease blows CLP out of the water IMHO.

BCM = F150

Noveske = BMW


One is a work truck but can look good is washed and cleaned up. The BMW is the car if you have to take a dirt road your going to cry the whole way there... Do you want a work horse you can best but can still look good or bragging rights and a picture pretty rifle. Pretty much how it works with the 2.

I don't know if I agree with your analogy. Who says that if you own a Noveske you must baby it like a sports car. I expect a lot out of mine and it performs admirably. It should too, with how much they charge for them.

I'd say it's like a Ranger and a Tacoma. Both are good little pickups you could beat to hell, but one is more expensive due to the brand name/rep/appeal. (I don't if that's a good analogy either because I don't know too much about trucks :o)

dieselpower
06-27-2011, 6:08 PM
its either a Colt...or its not.

your quest for the best "name" is flawed...A BCM and a Nov...are both CLONES OF A COLT....

so you need to get a OLL Colt.

Either that or get a Non-Mil-spec AR15, like a Sun Devil, a Mega, a LaRue....

ZNinerFan
06-27-2011, 6:25 PM
its either a Colt...or its not.

your quest for the best "name" is flawed...A BCM and a Nov...are both CLONES OF A COLT....

so you need to get a OLL Colt.

Either that or get a Non-Mil-spec AR15, like a Sun Devil, a Mega, a LaRue....

I have a Noveske N4 Light Pro Recce and my next AR, if I ever feel the need for another one, is going to be a Colt 6940 Upper on the new Noveske Lower that I will build out myself.

Noah3683
06-27-2011, 6:38 PM
I was going to ask the same thing. I have the 16" midlength Recce upper with a H buffer and if functions just fine with Tula. That's strange that yours and your friends don't eat the cheap stuff, maybe mine is just extra special :). What kind of lube are you guys using? I started using TW-25 a few years ago and never looked back. Grease blows CLP out of the water IMHO.



I don't know if I agree with your analogy. Who says that if you own a Noveske you must baby it like a sports car. I expect a lot out of mine and it performs admirably. It should too, with how much they charge for them.

I'd say it's like a Ranger and a Tacoma. Both are good little pickups you could beat to hell, but one is more expensive due to the brand name/rep/appeal. (I don't if that's a good analogy either because I don't know too much about trucks :o)

I've used Slip EWL, TW-25 and Mobil 1 synthetic oil. The problem persisted with all of them. It could've honestly been break in, because it never saw more than 150 rds total. I think the actual count was around 120. Then again Noveske said it should run like a top from round 1 on. Maybe I did just have a lemon. My thought though is it should function from the get go just like my DD's and BCM did.

CK_32
06-27-2011, 6:45 PM
For those that are selling a kidney or their left nut to buy a Noveske I agree with that statement. Others can afford to purchase a Noveske/Bmw and treat it like a BCM/F150.

Some but not most.... If I drop my BCM I'm like dam it!! I drop my Noveske that I dropped a good $3k + for I'm droppin some f bombs and beatin someone down.

ZNinerFan
06-27-2011, 6:48 PM
My lower receiver on the Noveske is already pretty nicked up from shooting so any new scratches don't bother me.

Tweaksalot
06-27-2011, 7:01 PM
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r7/tweaksalot/IMG_0550.jpg

Tweaksalot
06-27-2011, 7:02 PM
. . . even tho bcm or noveske doesn't make that upper

$P-Ritch$
06-27-2011, 8:04 PM
I've used Slip EWL, TW-25 and Mobil 1 synthetic oil. The problem persisted with all of them. It could've honestly been break in, because it never saw more than 150 rds total. I think the actual count was around 120. Then again Noveske said it should run like a top from round 1 on. Maybe I did just have a lemon. My thought though is it should function from the get go just like my DD's and BCM did.

I totally agree that I would expect it run 100% right out of the box. I have noticed, though, in most of my newly purchased guns that it does seem to take about 250 rounds to smooth out any inconsistencies/tool marks that may be causing unnecessary friction. Once they are broken in they seem to run much better. Well, aside from that little hiccup, I hope your noveske works well for you. I sure love mine.

Rebellious
06-27-2011, 8:45 PM
LMT=Noveske=Larue=LWRC>BCM
^This

If its around $100 more for the Noveske then its a no brainer. Go with the Noveske you'll never look back. Plus Noveske's CS is excellent and super friendly.

BCM is good but what makes Noveske better is the barrel.

BTW did I mention I LOVE my Noveske:D
http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad230/Rebellious_AMG/LR_Noveske_Logo.jpg

hollowpoint
06-27-2011, 8:49 PM
BCM = F150

Noveske = BMW


One is a work truck but can look good is washed and cleaned up. The BMW is the car if you have to take a dirt road your going to cry the whole way there... Do you want a work horse you can best but can still look good or bragging rights and a picture pretty rifle. Pretty much how it works with the 2.


No, Ford trucks are terrible.

BCM = Silverado 1500 LTZ 4X4

Noveske = Silverado HD 2500 Durmax w/ Allison tranny LTZ 4X4.

gatdammit
06-27-2011, 9:01 PM
Krieger.

BINGO!!! I have a Noveske, but the one I built myself using a Krieger barrel and it can out shoot my Noveske any day of the week!

evidens83
06-27-2011, 9:02 PM
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i307/evalencia83/021.jpg

i<3HK
06-27-2011, 10:10 PM
Noveske! :D

shooterfpga
06-27-2011, 10:24 PM
my next one will be a bcm. id go with another, but so far nobody else has a 20'' flat top upper with a 1/7 or 1/8 5.56, with an a2 front sight.

patriot_man
06-28-2011, 2:52 AM
Although I do not own a Noveske (LMT, BCM, Colt fanatic myself :D) I do find that Noveske is more accurate due to the barrel, smoother recoil due to the mid length system.

Novekse is a truely a different type of rifle compared to LMT or Colt or even a BCM. I find that LMT, Colt, BCM are geared more towards fighting rifles that compromise on accuracy for durability (Chrome lined barrels) and pattern military rifles while Noveske places standards on accuracy and control at #1. (Steel Barrels, Midlength Systems).


Either one will yield great CS and reliability (Assuming you don't get a lemon).

sonnyt650
06-28-2011, 7:22 AM
Since we're just throwing out brands: JP, Compass Lake, any other match rifle maker. Ammo costs money that I earned myself nowadays and so for me shooting thousands of rounds without failure is a meaningless measure, same is true for the "mil-spec" torture testing. However I can roll great ammo myself and can shoot hundreds of reloads, thousands over the years with a good cleaning after every session. If your friend is as capable a shooter as he claims (able to outshoot ordinary rifles) this would be the direction I'd look.

Just-in
06-28-2011, 10:22 AM
No, Ford trucks are terrible.

BCM = Silverado 1500 LTZ 4X4

Noveske = Silverado HD 2500 Durmax w/ Allison tranny LTZ 4X4.


:rolleyes:

Vinrx7
06-28-2011, 11:05 AM
<---- Is thankful for the slooooooow production of Spikes tactical. If it wasnt for them, i would never have gotten my Noveske.
Thanks Spikes! :D

Iggy
06-28-2011, 12:32 PM
From Noveske's Thunder Ranch Rifle

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=r-trsc-556&cat=152&page=1

A MESSAGE FROM CLINT SMITH:
I have shot the Stoner designed AR style platform for forty-four years in one form or another as a combat decorated infantry Marine as a Police Officer and as a civilian.

I have actually used this type rifle in combat. The new Noveske Rifleworks N4 Thunder Ranch AR rifle is the best example of this rifle I have ever owned over the last four plus decades. The design implemented by the NRW team is a combination of their knowledge of the tool and my knowledge and real world application of this tool. To some people this rifle might seem expensive, my response to that is yes and in the truest sense you get what you pay for.

I own and use Noveske AR style rifles as they are the platform I teach with and even more importantly they are the rifle I would defend Heidi, Boo and myself with. I have worked on this now realized concept of the rifle for years and John Noveske is the person who listened to what I had to say and more importantly he was willing to build the rifle the way it should be built for serious applications. This concept will be copied by others in part and parcel in the future, but it will not be built better by anyone anywhere.

Heidi and I are grateful and thrilled that John, Lorina, Sheri and the NRW team has stood with us to build this very best of the breed.

My only regret is that I did not have this rifle forty-four years ago in combat, but that regret is tempered by the fact that I can and will gladly use this Noveske rifle for the rest of my teaching and shooting career.



Clint Smith

Thunder Ranch

l0rdr0ck
06-28-2011, 1:39 PM
Where is the obligatory Sheri picture for this thread?
Maybe it will influence the man.

RMTactical
06-28-2011, 5:53 PM
its either a Colt...or its not.

your quest for the best "name" is flawed...A BCM and a Nov...are both CLONES OF A COLT....

so you need to get a OLL Colt.

Either that or get a Non-Mil-spec AR15, like a Sun Devil, a Mega, a LaRue....

That's an ignorant statement and really doesn't help the OP at all.

What are you hoping to accomplish with a post like this?

dieselpower
06-28-2011, 6:07 PM
That's an ignorant statement and really doesn't help the OP at all.

What are you hoping to accomplish with a post like this?

Well here we go Mr salesman...

I first told the OP that since he was asking about BCM and Nov, then he knows they are both great gear. I was then showed his focus was on name brand recognition for a wow factor. And if you knew anything substantial about the AR15 platform you would know Nov and BCM are clones of the original design spec by Eugene Stoner...and if you are going for name brand recognition you get the one everyone knows, not some fad-flavor of the month clone.

Everyone is wowed by Nov barrels, yet ask Guys like Mark LaRue and Geoffrey Kolbe who are not only machinist, gunsmiths and barrel-smith they are AR15 specialist they will tell you the Nov barrels are great but nothing to write home about...they are just good-arse barrels...are they worth a $100 bucks more...meh... to a guy who loves Nov yes.

So whats the best most flashy roll mark... its KAC and Colt. Myself I drink from the ArmaLite koolaid bucket...but thats just me. I just want a tool...a tool used to kill humans and food. I dont hunt paper or take porn shoots of my gear...I just edit out my toes :)

Thats why I said what I said.

ZNinerFan
06-28-2011, 6:50 PM
I hope to one day get a chance to shoot a KAC rifle. They always seemed like a sweet rifle.

If you are legitimately looking for a rifle that will hold its value if you ever want to sell at some point in the future, you should probably get a Noveske.

I have seen more BCM builds pop up in the buy and sell than Noveske's. When they do sell the Noveske's will typically sell for more than a BCM in the secondary market.

After the first case of ammo gets through that gun, the couple hundred dollar different between the two doesn't matter, as you already dropped the cash for the difference in ammo and they are both now used and no longer pristine. Personally, I have always been a fan of the barrel profiles of the Noveske rifles. My own is a chrome lined heavy barrel without the milspec forward notch.

I have heard it mentioned many times that you can get chrome lined barrels for relatively low prices but what makes some chrome lined barrels more expensive than others is the uniformity of the chrome lining throughout the barrel.

This leads to much better accuracy with the additional benefit of longer barrel life due to the chrome lining. I don't want to say that a Noveske chrome lined barrel will match the accuracy of a stainless match grade barrel but it will be close enough with a much longer barrel life.

Most people probably don't need that barrel life though. As for me, I wanted a rifle I could keep forever and shoot the snot out of over it's life. I can shoot anywhere from 20 69gr black hills ammo to a couple thousand M855 62 grain bullets over a weekend out at my buddies private property up north. A stainless barrel with a 10k round lifespan can get burned out in a couple of years if you shoot frequently enough. Although I am sure there are exceptions out there.

I never had any experience with the stainless Noveske barrels so I can't speak much about them outside of mentioning they have polygonal rifling.

All that being said, get whatever rifle makes you happy. There is nothing worse than dropping primo money on a rifle and then kicking yourself for not spending that extra $100-$200 and gotten what you really wanted. Over the life of the rifle you will spend many times more money on ammo and in some instances even optics if you choose to then the actual rifle itself.

We are lucky to have all of these options here in California and everyone should take a moment to thank the folks in the Calguns Foundation who led the way in making this happen for all of us.

RMTactical
06-28-2011, 8:31 PM
Well here we go Mr salesman...

I first told the OP that since he was asking about BCM and Nov, then he knows they are both great gear. I was then showed his focus was on name brand recognition for a wow factor. And if you knew anything substantial about the AR15 platform you would know Nov and BCM are clones of the original design spec by Eugene Stoner...and if you are going for name brand recognition you get the one everyone knows, not some fad-flavor of the month clone.

Everyone is wowed by Nov barrels, yet ask Guys like Mark LaRue and Geoffrey Kolbe who are not only machinist, gunsmiths and barrel-smith they are AR15 specialist they will tell you the Nov barrels are great but nothing to write home about...they are just good-arse barrels...are they worth a $100 bucks more...meh... to a guy who loves Nov yes.

So whats the best most flashy roll mark... its KAC and Colt. Myself I drink from the ArmaLite koolaid bucket...but thats just me. I just want a tool...a tool used to kill humans and food. I dont hunt paper or take porn shoots of my gear...I just edit out my toes :)

Thats why I said what I said.

So, you don't train? All you do is the real deal. You only kill people or food with your AR15's. Impressive. You sound pretty hardcore. Which SEAL team are you part of?

kamagong
06-28-2011, 9:03 PM
I don't even know why Colt is in the conversation here. Unless I'm mistaken, Colt does not have an OLL available for us folks here in California.

Colt-45
06-28-2011, 9:12 PM
I don't even know why Colt is in the conversation here. Unless I'm mistaken, Colt does not have an OLL available for us folks here in California.

I believe they have two but they're hard to come by AND they really don't offer anything that's not already offered by an OLL.

dieselpower
06-28-2011, 10:34 PM
So, you don't train? All you do is the real deal. You only kill people or food with your AR15's. Impressive. You sound pretty hardcore. Which SEAL team are you part of?

yeah because only seals use guns to defend themselves and eat a rabbit while camping... dude get a life. the ****ing Ar15 is a gun, its not your fantasy gimmick you like to sell to to the video game kids. I am not your target consumer, you cant BS me or snowball me into believing your BS. I don't care about stag, colt, bcm nov or any of the childish pretend **** you are selling.

go sell your mall ninja tactical bs to someone else...i am far too grounded in reality for you.

Rebellious
06-29-2011, 1:50 AM
This just got interesting
:popcorn:

ZNinerFan
06-29-2011, 2:33 AM
I don't even know why Colt is in the conversation here. Unless I'm mistaken, Colt does not have an OLL available for us folks here in California.

There is no law stopping you from getting a Colt 6940 Upper. I don't see why a rollmark would make a difference in a lower receiver as long as it was all in spec.

Uhhlexxxis
06-29-2011, 6:01 AM
so funny to see all these clean rifles... the only exception being Rebellious... don't be afraid to get your Noveske dirty.. it'll be okay. My BCM survived the desert.

sonnyt650
06-29-2011, 6:41 AM
When I was putting car mileage on my motorcycle (no I didn't tool around town all day) I'd clean it regularly to be sure nothing would come back and bite me later. Cleaning is an inspection thing as much as it is maintenance and you can catch those loose bolts before you have to find replacements. Watch the documentary "Restrepo" where those guys are real soldiers and they stand around cleaning at least a couple of times -- a clean rifle is nothing to be ashamed of.

Shenaniguns
06-29-2011, 7:10 AM
IMO both companies are about equal and they both source their standard weight CHF CL barrels through FN while BCM may use DD for their CHF LW stuff (yet to be determined). My 16" Noveske Lo-Pro Recce was accurate with a weak shooter like me out to 400+ yards on steel but was a tad heavy and think an equally built BCM would do just as well.

Either is a great choice, pick the one that has the options you want.

numsii
06-29-2011, 7:33 AM
The first lesson I learned over the years was... JUST BUY BOTH. You're probably going to eventually. Then you can make the comparison for yourself and sell what you don't want.

The next and more important lesson I learned over the years... you should be spending more on ammo and education.

*just buy both*

Awesome... But sadly so very true, fact is that if you're milling over this versus that you're going to end up collecting both just because you can.

Great response, put me in perspective anyway :)

T-800
06-29-2011, 10:48 AM
Just to morph this thread a little more. I don't get it, with all things being equal (twist, material, ...) what makes Noveske, LWRC, Or BCM better than Stag, RRA, CMMG, JD Machines, etc? I mean, milspec is milspec right? So what makes one better than another?

Well one cost more so it should be better. Thats the way people think at least. Psst between you and me theyre the same. I'd go with BCM.

CK_32
06-29-2011, 11:16 AM
My lower receiver on the Noveske is already pretty nicked up from shooting so any new scratches don't bother me.

That's you. If I'm dropping $100 extra for a logo on my lower I'm not going to scratch it. If I was going to run her into the ground I would have and did go with a $99 mega or jd lower. Just me.

You can afford to drop an extra $100 then more power to you.

IPSICK
06-29-2011, 11:25 AM
Just read the OP and if resale is a concern, then I believe the Noveske is the better choice. But if the friend is looking for a shooter, then the following was the best suggestion:

Since we're just throwing out brands: JP, Compass Lake, any other match rifle maker. Ammo costs money that I earned myself nowadays and so for me shooting thousands of rounds without failure is a meaningless measure, same is true for the "mil-spec" torture testing. However I can roll great ammo myself and can shoot hundreds of reloads, thousands over the years with a good cleaning after every session. If your friend is as capable a shooter as he claims (able to outshoot ordinary rifles) this would be the direction I'd look.

Btw, my JP is well below 1/2MOA @ 100 yards and I am not that great of a shooter. The JP will likely cost considerably more than the Noveske or BCM. No, I do not necessarily baby my JP.

Sgt. J Beezy
06-29-2011, 11:25 AM
LMT MRP CQB all the way!!!

Doesn't get better than that!!!

ZNinerFan
06-29-2011, 11:27 AM
That's you. If I'm dropping $100 extra for a logo on my lower I'm not going to scratch it. If I was going to run her into the ground I would have and did go with a $99 mega or jd lower. Just me.

You can afford to drop an extra $100 then more power to you.

I can't speak for the entire world, but for me, I don't keep any guns I will not shoot the snot out of. I am a shooter, not a collector.

I am not sure what you are trying to say about the extra $100. At the time I put my Noveske together all stripped lowers were pricy and there wasn't as much selection of OLL's as there is now.

If I were to build the same rifle today, I would get the same Noveske upper and put it on the cheapest milspec lower I could find.

Noah3683
06-30-2011, 5:09 PM
its either a Colt...or its not.

your quest for the best "name" is flawed...A BCM and a Nov...are both CLONES OF A COLT....

so you need to get a OLL Colt.

Either that or get a Non-Mil-spec AR15, like a Sun Devil, a Mega, a LaRue....

Well it all started with Armalite, so your logic is flawed as well. On that note CLONE or not, I would venture to say that companies like Noveske, or Daniel Defense have surpassed Colt for quality. :hide: They both uses better barrels making them more accurate. Have better finishes, and are typically just as reliable. Not to mention cheaper, and they are easier to find in a variation of gas/barrel length configurations. Most Colt's you find readily available are 16" barrel carbine gas system which isn't even a proper clone of their own system. The only bolt I've had fail was Colt for that matter.

dieselpower
06-30-2011, 5:48 PM
Well it all started with Armalite, so your logic is flawed as well. On that note CLONE or not, I would venture to say that companies like Noveske, or Daniel Defense have surpassed Colt for quality. :hide: They both uses better barrels making them more accurate. Have better finishes, and are typically just as reliable. Not to mention cheaper, and they are easier to find in a variation of gas/barrel length configurations. Most Colt's you find readily available are 16" barrel carbine gas system which isn't even a proper clone of their own system. The only bolt I've had fail was Colt for that matter.

You are correct and mistaken. While Armalite designed the AR15, they sold it to Colt so they could develop the AR16 and AR18...thats not the point of getting a Colt over all others.

Question, what would you rather have....A 1969 Hemi Cuda, STOCK or a 1990 TRD "Hemi Cuda CLONE" kit car? Its nearly identical in every way shape and form to a real Plymouth Hemi Cuda. It has "upgraded" eco-friendly exhaust, but still maintains that hot rod sound. It has a state of the art braking system not possible in 1969. The engine is a 6cyl which generates nearly the same torque and horsepower as the original 426 cu in, 7.0L 8 cyl Hemi engine.

Many people would rather have the real thing...not a clone. In 20 years BCM and Noveske maybe a thing of the past and worthless bar a few collectors looking for that brand of clone.

What do you think will be worth more in 2040, a Real deal Colt AR15, M4 style semiautomatic or one of the HUNDREDS of off brand clones that was mass produced 30 years earlier?

The only people impressed by a BCM or Nov roll mark are the ones currently looking to impress others. So unless the OP is looking to sell to that crowd, a Colt would be better. Remember what I was asked to focus on.....
The reason I'm asking is I want to know which manufacturer carries more cachet. I figure that he might as well get the gun with greater brand recognition in case he ever decides to sell it later on.......

So, what do you think will get more hits AND command a higher asking price on a CALGUNS forum...
WTS Colt model 6940 AR15
or
WTS BCM AR15

What do you think turns more heads at the range...
What kind of AR is that?
Its a Colt. or Its a Noveske.

I know 3 shops each with Nov sitting under glass... I haven't seen a OLL Colt in months, but I know for a FACT they are out there.

think about it.

IPSICK
06-30-2011, 6:03 PM
Maybe I'm too new to all of this but I'd take a Noveske over Colt. BCM vs. Colt would be a toss-up but the Colt would probably be the better brand name.

Noah3683
06-30-2011, 6:11 PM
You are correct and mistaken. While Armalite designed the AR15, they sold it to Colt so they could develop the AR16 and AR18...thats not the point of getting a Colt over all others.

Question, what would you rather have....A 1969 Hemi Cuda, STOCK or a 1990 TRD "Hemi Cuda CLONE" kit car? Its nearly identical in every way shape and form to a real Plymouth Hemi Cuda. It has "upgraded" eco-friendly exhaust, but still maintains that hot rod sound. It has a state of the art braking system not possible in 1969. The engine is a 6cyl which generates nearly the same torque and horsepower as the original 426 cu in, 7.0L 8 cyl Hemi engine.

Many people would rather have the real thing...not a clone. In 20 years BCM and Noveske maybe a thing of the past and worthless bar a few collectors looking for that brand of clone.

What do you think will be worth more in 2040, a Real deal Colt AR15, M4 style semiautomatic or one of the HUNDREDS of off brand clones that was mass produced 30 years earlier?

The only people impressed by a BCM or Nov roll mark are the ones currently looking to impress others. So unless the OP is looking to sell to that crowd, a Colt would be better. Remember what I was asked to focus on.....
.......

So, what do you think will get more hits AND command a higher asking price on a CALGUNS forum...
WTS Colt model 6940 AR15
or
WTS BCM AR15

What do you think turns more heads at the range...
What kind of AR is that?
Its a Colt. or Its a Noveske.

I know 3 shops each with Nov sitting under glass... I haven't seen a OLL Colt in months, but I know for a FACT they are out there.

think about it.
Ok I see your point and Colt vs BCM would be a no brainer for me. Actually after my experiences with my Noveske's ammo pickiness I would take Colt there too. But I would take Daniel Defense over them all, and it isn't about impressing anyone. I found my Noveske at a killer price and sorta fell into the hype. It was accurate as hell, but like I said picky. I know there are those out there that pick certain brands simply to show off, and I know some pick them because of the actual quality. My main point was it wasn't originally Colt either so in a roundabout way they are all clones of Armalite.

Colt-45
06-30-2011, 8:47 PM
What do you think will be worth more in 2040, a Real deal Colt AR15, M4 style semiautomatic or one of the HUNDREDS of off brand clones that was mass produced 30 years earlier?


These aren't shinny Colt 1911's were talking about here, if we were talking about Colt 1911's I'd agree with your logic.

Do you buy Ar-15's and put them in the safe in hope that they will be worth something in 20 years? I actually shoot mine.

RMTactical
06-30-2011, 9:09 PM
yeah because only seals use guns to defend themselves and eat a rabbit while camping... dude get a life. the ****ing Ar15 is a gun, its not your fantasy gimmick you like to sell to to the video game kids. I am not your target consumer, you cant BS me or snowball me into believing your BS. I don't care about stag, colt, bcm nov or any of the childish pretend **** you are selling.

go sell your mall ninja tactical bs to someone else...i am far too grounded in reality for you.

You are ignorant, rude, childish, and just plain angry. You are right, you are nothing like my target customers (Military/Law Enforcement and other pro gun 2nd amendment enthusiasts).

Not sure how that is relevant to this discussion though. :) Oh, that's right, you think I sell BCM products just because I like them, state it openly, and own an online store (which has NEVER carried BCM products).

dieselpower
06-30-2011, 9:40 PM
Ok I see your point and Colt vs BCM would be a no brainer for me. Actually after my experiences with my Noveske's ammo pickiness I would take Colt there too. But I would take Daniel Defense over them all, and it isn't about impressing anyone. I found my Noveske at a killer price and sorta fell into the hype. It was accurate as hell, but like I said picky. I know there are those out there that pick certain brands simply to show off, and I know some pick them because of the actual quality. My main point was it wasn't originally Colt either so in a roundabout way they are all clones of Armalite.

I agree on it not being about impressing anyone, but this OP was about impressing people and resale. I think pound for pound a WTS Colt, would get more mileage than a WTS Nov or WTS BCM...if this was Arizona then no the Colt wouldn't be any thing special.

Now down the road 30 years you don't know what direction companies will go in. But people will value the Colt name over the clones...depending on what it is.

I agree on the Armalite thing, but the "ArmaLite M15" (AW in CA) is a clone of the AR15...and if you find an Armalite AR15...you need to buy it. The even rarer and highly sought after "Colt ArmaLite AR15" would be a big score.

dieselpower
06-30-2011, 9:41 PM
These aren't shinny Colt 1911's were talking about here, if we were talking about Colt 1911's I'd agree with your logic.

Do you buy Ar-15's and put them in the safe in hope that they will be worth something in 20 years? I actually shoot mine.

read the OP....

dieselpower
06-30-2011, 9:41 PM
You are ignorant, rude, childish, and just plain angry. You are right, you are nothing like my target customers (Military/Law Enforcement and other pro gun 2nd amendment enthusiasts).

Not sure how that is relevant to this discussion though. :) Oh, that's right, you think I sell BCM products just because I like them, state it openly, and own an online store (which has NEVER carried BCM products).

agreed...now go away.

sffred
08-03-2011, 9:16 PM
i own a noveske n4 light 16" mid length and its basically like this... bcm makes some great $%^@ and reasonably accepts a lot more different ammo than the noveske. but if you want to shoot @ 300 yards with accuracy out the box, get a noveske! make sure it is not the stainless barrel the dual chrome lined hammer forged one is best! but it is a princess only accepting 62 grains and heavier (expensive)! the only downfall that i have noticed while owning a noveske is the infamous di cleaning! wish i would of purchased a switchblock, i have a friend with a cmmg piston s/u and it is way easier to clean a gas piston!

agent.5
08-03-2011, 9:38 PM
but if you want to shoot @ 300 yards with accuracy out the box, get a noveske! make sure it is not the stainless barrel the dual chrome lined hammer forged one is best!


So you are saying that the Noveske stainless is LESS accurate than the dual chrome lined hammer forged N4 barrel? Can you elaborate?

Mono
08-03-2011, 10:01 PM
The first lesson I learned over the years was... JUST BUY BOTH. You're probably going to eventually. Then you can make the comparison for yourself and sell what you don't want.

The next and more important lesson I learned over the years... you should be spending more on ammo and education.
this

RRichie09
08-03-2011, 10:34 PM
Wow, this ALWAYS happens when you ask a Brand A vs Brand B quesiton.


It sounds like your friend is a new shooter and wants a awesome rifle to have an awesome rifle. Kinda like the guy who needs to have the Ducati 1098R as his first bike. Nothing wrong with that at all, its his money, whatever makes him happy.

So keeping that in mind. In my opinion the Noveske brand carries a little more snob factor than the BCM brand.

Now if you were basing this question on what your friend plans to use the rifle for, then I think this thread could be more helpful.


Accuracy, I'd say Noveske SS with their special chamber should be better in theory. BCM SS barrels are 1.8 twist but uses a 5.56 chamber, not that your friend would notice as he will most likely be shooting plinking ammo anyways haha. If it were me and I was getting a commercial (non-custom) AR for accuracy, I'd get a Larue Stealth.

If he wants a chrome-lined barrel then Noveske is the way to go based on brand name as I stated above, BUT I would get the Colt 6941 if I was getting a chrome-lined 14.5" carbine.

kamagong
08-03-2011, 10:38 PM
My friend hasn't gotten the AR yet, I think he's on information overload. I may have confused him when I showed him my Noveske and KAC SR-15 builds.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/8749/myars.jpg

I have a feeling he just wants an evil black rifle. If that's the case I'll point him towards BCM, have him pick out the upper configuration he wants, and laugh as he turns his AR into a 10-lb. porker.

RRichie09
08-03-2011, 10:51 PM
^^ or get him a Riflegear upper.

Why not suggest to him of buying something cheaper till he figures out what he wants or just waiting till he becomes more knowledgeable and knows of all the different configurations.

Have you showed him the SPR type rifles yet?

luchador768
08-03-2011, 11:13 PM
Well past 3500 rounds through my two BCM uppers. They still look and shoot great. Zero malfunctions. I'm happy with my choice and don't panic when they fall on the ground. I think of them as a nice set of Craftsman wrenches.

Kingpin.SC
08-03-2011, 11:27 PM
I'm almost positive that the average consumer/enthusiast is not going to notice any difference between anything that they buy, other than a slight difference in finish. I happen to own a BCM, and love it. IMHO, I really couldn't have picked a better upper for my first build.

With that said, I will go out on a limb and make a bet that any first-time buyer has been ecstatic about whatever they've purchased. Hell, my brother picked up a DPMS upper for his first build, and couldn't be happier.

I do like the finer things in life, and still aspire to build the Noveske/KAC "status" rifle... but do I need it? No. And certainly not for any real-life purpose that I'd ever imagine/encounter. But like others have stated, if you want to stand out, you buy a Ferrari/BMW/Mercedes/etc. If you want a workhorse, you buy a reliable/sturdy/rugged truck.

So to leave a long story long, if he wants more of a status symbol, go with the Noveske.

KK762
08-03-2011, 11:31 PM
I'd choose the Noveske because of their awesome barrels.

RRichie09
08-03-2011, 11:35 PM
I'd choose the Noveske because of their awesome barrels.

How awesome are they?


BTW your avatar makes me laugh.

KK762
08-03-2011, 11:40 PM
How awesome are they?


BTW your avatar makes me laugh.

Oh they're awesome. M249 double thick chrome lining. I believe an 80,000 round barrel life. Very good for bumpfiring. :D

robgon
08-04-2011, 11:06 AM
I have a Daniel defense that was built by a friend who knew what he was doing. I have shot probably 1200 rounds through it and it has never had one problem cycling, ejecting, or just overall shooting EVER. After I saw the Daniel defense video it sealed the deal that Daniel defense is top notch.

javalos
08-04-2011, 11:38 AM
+1 Stags rule!

Stags??? Sorry, not in the same league as BCM or Noveske. Stag barrels are 4140 steel, BCM barrels is certified MIL-B-11595E while Noveske barrels going a bit further being cold hammer forged M249 machine gun barrel steel.

MotherGunner
08-04-2011, 7:00 PM
I have a Daniel defense that was built by a friend who knew what he was doing. I have shot probably 1200 rounds through it and it has never had one problem cycling, ejecting, or just overall shooting EVER. After I saw the Daniel defense video it sealed the deal that Daniel defense is top notch.

Doesn't BCM now use DD barrels anyways though?

Shenaniguns
08-04-2011, 7:16 PM
Doesn't BCM now use DD barrels anyways though?


BCM uses more than one barrel vendor, FN and possibly DD for the Hammer Forged barrels.

L84CABO
09-04-2011, 11:28 PM
LMT=Noveske=Larue=LWRC>BCM

Just wondering where Daniel Defense fits into this equation? Looking for my first AR and my head is spinning with all the choices.

Droppin Deuces
09-04-2011, 11:30 PM
Just wondering where Daniel Defense fits into this equation? Looking for my first AR and my head is spinning with all the choices.

They're right up there near the top.

acaligunner
09-05-2011, 12:14 AM
If your going to pick a top tier AR just for shooting, The Noveske (in any version) should shoot better than the BCM.

If you are going for a top tier fighting gun, I would pick the Noveske over the BCM or DD.

Why, because all things being equal, the Noveske will offer you the same reliability, and should shoot a tad better than the DD/BCM.

All 3 make mid length versions, all 3 are quality built, I've handled Noveske's and they are very nicely done. I like their barrels, and everything else about them.

Do you need to pay that much to get that much performance, NO. The LMT, DD, BCM, offer about the same package in a cheaper priced AR system. So think about it.

I was going to buy another Noveske, but it's almost the same as a SCAR L 5.56.

Decisions, , , Decisions

acaligunner

Cali-Shooter
09-05-2011, 12:17 AM
Noveske or BCM? Pffffft!

Get a Stag!

;)

This :cool:

But something tells me that's not going to stoke your friend's fire...

In which case, he'll have to go with LWRC, since having the "best" AR obviously means spending exuberant amounts of money for it.

Code7inOaktown
09-05-2011, 8:48 AM
This isn't for me, it's for a friend who wants me to help him pick out an AR. I already have a couple, and if it were up to me I would just get him a midlength BCM and be done with it. However, he did ask me to help him because he wanted the "best" AR. I told him there was no such thing, but that I would get him a top notch weapon, one that would be limited only by the shooter.

The two candidates are the BCM 16" midlength and the Noveske Light Recce Basic 16". The BCM will be a complete rifle, while Noveske will be utilizing a stripped lower with a G&R Tactical LPK. Whatever rifle is chosen it will be fitted out with Magpul MOE furniture.

IMO these guns are so close in quality that it's basically a toss-up. The Noveske might have a slight advantage because of its barrel. On the other hand, it costs ~ $100 more. The reason I'm asking is I want to know which manufacturer carries more cachet. I figure that he might as well get the gun with greater brand recognition in case he ever decides to sell it later on.

Thanks.

For resale value, I think a complete Noveske is a better idea. However, if he building a frankengun with a $99 generic lower, that will hurt its resale since people mainly look at rollmarks. So between these two, the Complete BCM may actually be easier to sell.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

a1fabweld
09-05-2011, 10:53 AM
Can't go wrong with either. But you will get more "ohhhh's & ahhhhhhh's" at the range with the Iron Cross. Performance wise, I could put my Noveske 16" middy, my BCM 16" Middy, & my CMMG 16" middy all in a row, cover up the labels, & not know which one I was shooting. Yea, yea, If I was to go to war the CMMG would fail due to it being inferior to the holy brands from "the chart", blah, blah, blah.

Beagle
09-05-2011, 3:24 PM
After researching AR I chose the BCM upper. What did it for me was reading about Filthy 14. What's more important is learning about the use and operation of the AR.

I mean if your friend wants some expensive brand name AR, just go find the most expensive one.

kamagong
09-05-2011, 8:36 PM
Whoa. I came back from a long weekend and this thread is back from the dead.

My friend didn't get a BCM or Noveske. His kid's school tuition went up, so he had to put off his AR purchase for a while.

I, on the other hand, picked up a KAC SR-15 upper. Fits my LMT lower like the two were mated at the factory.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7682/kaclmt.jpg