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View Full Version : Tell me why I shouldn't get a .300 AAC Upper


a1c
06-26-2011, 10:46 AM
Let's see... I can use my existing AR lowers, BCGs and mags and hunt deer and pig.
I can form .223 brass and use .308 bullets to reload it

What's not to like?

Anyone considering getting a dedicated Blackout upper?

bluebird
06-26-2011, 10:59 AM
I have not have enough firearms experience but I believe I can say something on this since I have read enough from legitimate sources.

First of all, the official name is 300BLK or 300 AAC Blackout.:D sorry I had to point that out.

From what I've read so far, 300BLK might not be the best choice for 500-600 yard comparing to 5.56 (maybe due to its drop)

The other reason you might not want to consider 300BLK is that there aren't many factory ammo available yet and I was told that the cheap Remington factory ammo will come out in September. If you want to shoot now, either you can reload or you'll have to wait.

Also, the ammo cost will always be higher than military surplus no matter how you reload due to the amount of metal in each bullet (110gr Hornady V-Max .308 vs 55gr .224 for example).

I have a feeling that very few Californians will actually own 300BLK because it particularly attracts people who want to run subsonic suppressed in SBR, despite that the main point of the cartridge is its great performance in the supersonic area.

I did consider getting a dedicated upper, and I have, for my first gun. I posted on here a few weeks ago but I'm not sure if the photo links are back up yet or not because I used up the bandwidth in another forum haha.

My 2 cents. I hope rsilvers will chime in on this matter since he's the (Project Coordinator?) of the 300BLK project.

r6raff
06-26-2011, 11:01 AM
Let's see... I can use my existing AR lowers, BCGs and mags and hunt deer and pig.
I can form .223 brass and use .308 bullets to reload it

What's not to like?

Anyone considering getting a dedicated Blackout upper?

Considering that the round is now (more or less) readily available, I have been considering it for a potential 30cal option.

Its an awesome round with some very promising ballistics and uses, definitely preferable to 7.62x39, but the Blackout is still a little pricing and I would only pull that trigger if I was planning on reloading.

Either way, I see a 300aac upper in my future.

bluebird
06-26-2011, 11:10 AM
Considering that the round is now (more or less) readily available, I have been considering it for a potential 30cal option.

Its an awesome round with some very promising ballistics and uses, definitely preferable to 7.62x39, but the Blackout is still a little pricing and I would only pull that trigger if I was planning on reloading.

Either way, I see a 300aac upper in my future.

FYI Remington should have their UMC coming out on uh...September I think. Midway is pricing them at $12.99/box.

a1c
06-26-2011, 11:31 AM
AIMSurplus is selling CMMG ammo for $184.95/200 rounds.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=ACMMG300BLKSUB&name=CMMG+.300+BLACKOUT+(7.62x35)+175grn+Subsonic+ 200rds&groupid=301&search=aac

Pricey, but it's there.

I'm not considering it as a replacement for .223. Just a different round for different uses.

thunderbolt
06-26-2011, 11:43 AM
I'm a real fan of the new calibers, I absolutly love my Grendel, but I'm scratching my head on this one. What's the effective range on the 300 AAC Blackout? From what I'm seeing it's maybe 200 yrds. Seems like more of a PDW, short barrel round meant for protection or CQB. Perhaps a 5.7x45 type clone in .30 cal? Not sure if it'd be good for hunting but I don't know much about the round yet. Any more info?

rsilvers
06-26-2011, 11:43 AM
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73274

It is actually good for CA, because it can use ordinary AR magazines. It is a lot easier to get a 30 round AR mag in CA than a 30 round mag for some other cartridge which needs its own mag.

I don't see this as just for suppressor people. How else can you shoot 30 rounds of 30 caliber ammo in an AR? Really the only other way is 7.62x40mm, but that needs special mags so not a good choice for CA.

rsilvers
06-26-2011, 11:46 AM
I'm a real fan of the new calibers, I absolutly love my Grendel, but I'm scratching my head on this one. What's the effective range on the 300 AAC Blackout? From what I'm seeing it's maybe 200 yrds. Seems like more of a PDW, short barrel round meant for protection or CQB. Perhaps a 5.7x45 type clone in .30 cal? Not sure if it'd be good for hunting but I don't know much about the round yet. Any more info?

It is supersonic to about 550 yards. I shot it at 600, and I hit a 3 inch X-ring.

It is good in PDWs but it is really an assault rifle class round. It is also good for hunting, as is 30-30.

dieselpower
06-26-2011, 12:21 PM
as long as you line up your ammo supply, which you seem to have done... there is no reason NOT to go with it. I was looking at a CMMG upper or a Dissy upper myself. I just dont reload, so I am looking at ammo cost and availability.

rockdogz
06-26-2011, 1:12 PM
Hopefully this isn't threadjacking but what do you think about this round for an AR pistol?

bluebird
06-26-2011, 1:26 PM
Hopefully this isn't threadjacking but what do you think about this round for an AR pistol?

This round has better better ballistics in 9 inch than M855 in 16 inch:D

rsilvers
06-26-2011, 3:24 PM
Also you could disable the gas system and use a left-side charging handle and have a straight-pull bolt action - which may have some benefits under CA law.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/259860_229342553752545_100000304066102_791294_3843 566_n.jpg

Nate87
06-26-2011, 3:52 PM
I don't see any reason NOT to get it. Just go for it. This is at the top of my list for future puchases. I'll most likely build the upper rather tha buy one completed to get it exactly how I'd like it. Still not sure if it'll be a pistol upper or a rifle upper. CMMG and Wilson Combat have barrels at a good price.

So depending on what you want to to use it for you can go with the 123 grain all the way up to the 220 grain depending on what becomes available or what you want to reload. I say go for it and let up know how it goes :D

cannon
06-26-2011, 4:06 PM
If you got the money and the desire. Do it!

nrakid88
06-26-2011, 4:06 PM
You say you want this for deer and pig.

Answer, Nosler Partition in your .223.

Your welcome.

htrjoe
06-26-2011, 4:15 PM
I built a dedicated rifle, JD upper and lower with a Wilson 16" lightweight barrel. I spent time making my own brass from LC 5.56. This is the most reliable off caliber rifle I own. I enjoy it more than my other AR rifles. It is a lot less hassle than the 6.5 Grendel when you roll your own ammo. Go for it! I am looking forward to my next pig hunt. For plinking I use 147 gr fmj.

bluebird
06-26-2011, 5:01 PM
You say you want this for deer and pig.

Answer, Nosler Partition in your .223.

Your welcome.

Excuse me sir, I'm not sure about hunting but I thought .223 can't be used to hunt deer by law?

nrakid88
06-26-2011, 6:59 PM
Depends state to state, AND i am no expert, but I believe california just requires a centerfire.

SigEquinox
06-26-2011, 8:49 PM
I've always been a fan of 6.8mm. Is there something 300BLK does better than the 6.8?

Nate87
06-26-2011, 9:05 PM
I've always been a fan of 6.8mm. Is there something 300BLK does better than the 6.8?

it utilizes the same bolt and mags as 5.56 so there is no need to buy more.

joelogic
06-26-2011, 9:13 PM
The ubiquity of .223 brass and pulled .308 bullets did it for me. I loved my 6.8 but way too expensive to shoot large volumes.

pyro3k2
06-26-2011, 11:11 PM
Because 7.62x39 is cheaper...other than that I got nothin'

mif_slim
06-26-2011, 11:53 PM
Excuse me sir, I'm not sure about hunting but I thought .223 can't be used to hunt deer by law?

CA law says anything centerfire can be used to hunt big game. Only restriction is hunting elk and sheep, you need a 4"+ bbl. Meaning you can hunt deer with a .25acp, but highly not recommended.

nagorb
06-27-2011, 12:24 AM
NO, I absolutely refuse to discourage you from buying new toys!

Now go buy the damn thing!

thrillhouse700
06-27-2011, 9:58 AM
I wouldn't mind having one either. Its a cool cartridge, I will wait to see how cheap ammo gets though, since I don't reload.

Iggy
06-27-2011, 10:44 AM
Also you could disable the gas system and use a left-side charging handle and have a straight-pull bolt action - which may have some benefits under CA law.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/259860_229342553752545_100000304066102_791294_3843 566_n.jpg


Anymore info on that upper?

ElvenSoul
06-27-2011, 11:11 AM
Ummm just look at how popular 6.8 and 458SOCOM are five to six years after they came out. So nice to be able to walk in gun store and buy ammo...I wish. Best of luck with a new wildcat/experiment round.

cmace22
06-27-2011, 12:01 PM
It doesnt look like it does anything better than the 6.8.

Like with all these rounds (6.5, 6.8, 300blk) the issue is producing them in enough quantities to drive the price to a reasonable amount say 7-8 a box.

If I wanted to buy ammo at .308 prices Id buy a .308!

longhairchris
06-27-2011, 1:49 PM
I'd like a .300BLK upper someday. It's a great concept for us handloaders; make your own brass from practically free cases, using easy to source .308 bullets and (from what I have seen) magnum pistol powders. Swap uppers, take your AR hunting!

I think this round will catch on for the above reasons. Having easily made ammo should equal good support from manufacturers (they could probably reuse some existing tooling to make ammo) as well as handloaders, leading to more rifles in more hands. When a cartridge isn't proprietary, I think it stands a better chance.

What if any, are the differences between .300BLK, .300 Whisper and .300/221?

mif_slim
06-27-2011, 2:11 PM
It doesnt look like it does anything better than the 6.8

Actually your wrong. The 6.8, you'll have to change the face of te bolt, the magazine, ammo and barrel while the 300blk all you change is ammo and barrel. That is extremely diffrent when it comes to pricing for the military... Which is what I think the maker of 300blk is aiming for. So the military will find a caliber in .30 while saving money...well, at least from what I read.

cmace22
06-27-2011, 2:35 PM
Actually your wrong. The 6.8, you'll have to change the face of te bolt, the magazine, ammo and barrel while the 300blk all you change is ammo and barrel. That is extremely diffrent when it comes to pricing for the military... Which is what I think the maker of 300blk is aiming for. So the military will find a caliber in .30 while saving money...well, at least from what I read.

I wasnt talking about military adoption. I was referring to actual cartridge performance.

The military adopting anything new is a LONG way off.

PolishMike
06-27-2011, 2:42 PM
I have one and love the thing.

220gr rounds with the AAC 7.62SD can are ridiculously quiet.

300BLK is great because of the versatility of it. Anything from 110gr supersonic to 220gr subsonic and everything in between. 308cal bullets are easy to find and relatively cheap, same mags, same bcg...

I even rigged up a setup to chop down brass that wasn't too time consuming.

shadowofnight
06-27-2011, 2:45 PM
What if any, are the differences between .300BLK, .300 Whisper and .300/221?

None, seen drawings on all 3

The only issue with load data is that some of the 300 whisper load data has the OAL longer than what the AR mag can use, because it was data for use in the T/C Contender and Bolt rifles ( I had the 300 Whisper ).

This is a fun cartridge to load for, it does both subsonic and supersonic very well. I started early necking up 221 fireball cases , but went to cut down 223 cases later on.

tacticalcity
06-27-2011, 2:48 PM
In addition to other caliber uppers/rifles sure do it. As your only upper/rifle stick with 5.56mm.

joelogic
06-27-2011, 3:04 PM
I understand not everyone reloads but I load 300blk for the same price as I load .223. I haven't been able to make major power factor yet for Uspsa multigun but I am working on it.

rsilvers
06-27-2011, 4:29 PM
It doesnt look like it does anything better than the 6.8.

Like with all these rounds (6.5, 6.8, 300blk) the issue is producing them in enough quantities to drive the price to a reasonable amount say 7-8 a box.

If I wanted to buy ammo at .308 prices Id buy a .308!

It does a bunch better than 6.8:

1. Uses normal magazines for 30 round capacity.
2. Uses normal bolt.
3. Has less blast/flash in short barrels.
4. Can run subsonic in the same gun as full power ammo.
5. Much lower cost to make ammo.

$7-8 a box - no way. $9 a box? Sure - that will happen I predict.

6.8 is longer range though - so does some things better as well.

rsilvers
06-27-2011, 4:32 PM
Ummm just look at how popular 6.8 and 458SOCOM are five to six years after they came out. So nice to be able to walk in gun store and buy ammo...I wish. Best of luck with a new wildcat/experiment round.

300 AAC BLACKOUT was approved by SAMMI as a standard round.

458 SOCOM is very expensive and could never be popular. 6.8 is a lot more expensive than 300 AAC BLACKOUT.

It will be more popular than 6.8 - just for the cheaper ammo and standard bolt and magazine reason.

rsilvers
06-27-2011, 4:33 PM
I understand not everyone reloads but I load 300blk for the same price as I load .223. I haven't been able to make major power factor yet for Uspsa multigun but I am working on it.

175 grain Sierra MK, 20.0 grains A1680 powder. Remington 300 AAC BLACKOUT brass. Remington 7.5 primer. Load to 2.245 OAL. 1900 fps in 16 inch barrel. 330PF.

rsilvers
06-27-2011, 4:36 PM
None, seen drawings on all 3

The main difference is that the throat of 300 AAC BLACKOUT is set so that a 220 Sierra, when loaded to magazine length, has 0.010 jump. This is more than the 300 Whisper(R), and gives it some extra velocity potential. A 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 16.5 inch barrel will match a 300 Whisper in an 18.0 inch barrel - when both are loaded to the same pressure. Or a 300 AAC BLACKOUT in a 14.5 inch barrel will match a 300 Whisper in a 16 inch barrel.

So it is like the difference between 5.56mm and 223 or 6.8 SPC-II vs 6.8 SPC. For this reason, shooting 300 AAC BLACKOUT full power ammo in a 300 Whisper or 300-221 chamber would have extra pressure, and is not recommended.

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=73274&hilit=faq

joelogic
06-27-2011, 5:18 PM
20grs of 1680 and a 175gr bullet? I was blowing primers with 18grs of h110 and 150gr bullets. Backed down to 16grs and I will chrono this week.

Just read your info at silencertalk. Good stuff. Does A1680 make less pressure than H110? Your post says H110 will give the highest velocities but I flatten primers and blow them out when pushing 18grs and 150gr bullets. 19grs of H110 and 108gr frangibles worked but the bullets make a mess of the action.

rsilvers
06-27-2011, 5:58 PM
You can't make major PF with a 150 grain bullet.

H110 only gives the highest velocities with bullets up to about 150 grains. After that, A1680 gives higher velocities.

Yes, A1680 makes less pressure than H110 as it is slower burning.

cmace22
06-27-2011, 6:36 PM
It does a bunch better than 6.8:

1. Uses normal magazines for 30 round capacity.
2. Uses normal bolt.
3. Has less blast/flash in short barrels.
4. Can run subsonic in the same gun as full power ammo.
5. Much lower cost to make ammo.

$7-8 a box - no way. $9 a box? Sure - that will happen I predict.

6.8 is longer range though - so does some things better as well.

#1 and #2 I wouldnt classify as better performance. More convenient, sure is and definitely a plus.

#3 is only a plus if you are running a pistol, SBR, your flash suppressor doesnt work or you are expecting return fire with one of the previously mentioned conditions.

#4 is a plus and I didnt know that it will cycle both loads reliably.

#5... Is it really cheaper to reload 300BLK vs 6.8mm? I dont reload so Im curious.

I like the idea but Im waiting for one of these rounds to take off and give the community that doesnt reload a cost effective alternative to 556.

joelogic
06-27-2011, 7:14 PM
#5, cost.

The brass makes the most difference. SSA 6.8 brass is $51/100 and 300blk brass can be formed from nearly free .223 brass. That is what sold me. I am a high volume shooter and lose brass all the time. For $.50 a piece I would have to hunt down every one and during a match that would be challenging.

6.8spc bullets can be $.15-$.25 each and .308 pulled bullets can be as cheap as $.11 each.

rsilvers
06-27-2011, 7:47 PM
And if you don't want to make it, 25 cents a case for primed/sealed new brass:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=919812

edward
06-27-2011, 7:57 PM
I would say go for it OP, and not just because I'll be sinking money at the cyclic rate into a 300 blk AR pistol project next month, and having other people do the same will help me in self-justifying this expense... nope, that isn't the reason at all...

brando
06-27-2011, 8:00 PM
Full disclosure: rsilvers works for AAC, developers of the .300BLK

I've written about this before, but in a nutshell the .300BLK seems to be a good step forward in taking the .300 Whisper concept out of the wildcat realm and into the mainstream while also giving the 7.62x39mm a run for its money. What's not to like, really? The .300BLK is a very versatile cartridge and requires almost no modification to your rifle setup. It fits into a strange spot where it has similar ballistics to the Soviet round, without the heavy taper (which made it not so good for ARs), among other things. It has the benefit of being able to toss a heavy bullet sub-sonic without any change in the rifle (nearly twice the mass of the 6.8SPC), which is great if you run a can. And it's got the backing of Remington and SAAMI certification. For those reasons I think it has a better chance of catching on industry wide than 6.8SPC or Wilson's similar cartridge.

Two reasons I'd get one: boar hunting or home defense.

vf111
06-28-2011, 11:15 AM
I just ordered a Noveske upper from Midway in 300AAC - I have plenty of AR's in 5.56/223 so I figured why the heck not? :)

ICHIYA TRAINING CONCEPTS
06-28-2011, 11:39 AM
Sadly, In good faith. I can not tell you not to get one. The sheer simplicity of the caliber is worth its weight in gold. Being able to fire form the brass out of brass everyone has laying around from there other ar's, combined with the ease of getting 308 projectiles, makes this a great caliber to have.

I'm currently waiting on my barrel from BHW so that i can assemble the upper.

hnoppenberger
06-28-2011, 12:03 PM
i would step up to an ar10 platform. .308 because of all the ammo avail, or 243 which is still very common.