PDA

View Full Version : NFA Trust for AOW ownership - how much would you pay?


EBR Works
06-25-2011, 9:33 AM
One of the barriers to AOW ownership in California is the cost of establishing an NFA trust so you don't need LE approval on your NFA form 4 for purchase of the firearm. Those of you in counties where the sheriff will sign off are very lucky, but the rest of the population needs a trust. How much would you guys be willing to pay for creation of a valid NFA trust to own firearms like this?

http://www.kingdomarms.com/store/images/_products/Serbu-Super_Shorty_870.jpg
http://www.ocarmory.com/IMG_4466.JPG
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/impactco/22ce2cb0.jpg
This one is just a poorly edited Photoshop concept, so don't get all excited about AW compliance. :D
.
.
.
.
.

CAL.BAR
06-25-2011, 9:38 AM
I don't know what everyone is willing to pay, but I have been doing them successfully for nearly a year with OC Armory here in Laguna Hills for $500.00. (delivery and full instructions included) (end commercial here)

PM me your e-mail for full details.

David

chead
06-25-2011, 9:48 AM
Nothing, really. I honestly just don't find anything that would be an AOW compelling enough.

Poppy83
06-25-2011, 9:48 AM
$500? Damn.

Q
06-25-2011, 10:20 AM
aow sux. sbr better.:)

1811
06-25-2011, 10:23 AM
I paid $200 - still don't really understand WTF it is.

All I know is I need it to get the AOW...

EBR Works
06-25-2011, 10:28 AM
aow sux. sbr better.:)

Yes, if you live in a free State. Forget it in California unless it's a C&R gun.

762.DEFENSE
06-25-2011, 10:37 AM
Yes, if you live in a free State. Forget it in California unless it's a C&R gun.

I was thinking about picking up the Serbu Super Shorty from OC Armory..but decided to just wait a year until I move to a free state and buy as many AOW's, SBR/SBS etc. as I want :43:

Lagduf
06-25-2011, 10:42 AM
I would pay the market value for this type of service. I know several places are offering this service now. I think I've seen in the range of $500-800.

I'd gladly pay less, of course :D

dieselpower
06-25-2011, 10:43 AM
Can you carry a AOW in a NON-locked case (unloaded) without a CCW as you can with a rifle?

? ....a backpack with a fixed magazine feed 12ga AOW, that is 12" long may appeal to me...

Inquirer
06-25-2011, 11:49 AM
Not to be the dick who tries to undermine your business, but aren't there tons of (free) tutorials on how to use Quicken Willmaker to setup a Living Trust for NFA Weapons? I agree, there should def be an upcharge for cutting the hassle out of the equation, but $200 puts you competitive with, say, Legalzoom. More than that... Meh, I'll do it myself. Now if you could figure out a way to get us some SBRs, that would be a different story!

--Inq

PolishMike
06-25-2011, 11:56 AM
Not to be the dick who tries to undermine your business, but aren't there tons of (free) tutorials on how to use Quicken Willmaker to setup a Living Trust for NFA Weapons? I agree, there should def be an upcharge for cutting the hassle out of the equation, but $200 puts you competitive with, say, Legalzoom. More than that... Meh, I'll do it myself. Now if you could figure out a way to get us some SBRs, that would be a different story!

--Inq

Yes there are, and the ATF has been denying them left and right for not being set up correctly.

cmace22
06-25-2011, 11:59 AM
An AOW would be a neat toy but I wouldnt want to pay more than 200 to set it up. like others have said, SBR's would be my only reason for setting up a trust.

Rebellious
06-25-2011, 12:19 PM
I don't know what everyone is willing to pay, but I have been doing them successfully for nearly a year with OC Armory here in Laguna Hills for $500.00. (delivery and full instructions included) (end commercial here)

PM me your e-mail for full details.

David

I was recently at OC Armory and was quoted $200 for the service. Maybe they dropped their price on setting up the tust since so many people have been doing it?

blazeaglory
06-25-2011, 12:40 PM
at fist the AOW thing appealed to me but the more i thought about it, it kinda made me feel like a tool. id rather move to a free state or wait for the bomb to drop before i set up a trust for an AOW in california. SBR would be a different story.

what could i do with a 12 inch shotgun that i couldnt do with a 18 inch pistol grip? not to be a jerk, but i could make my own AOW. not that i would in california, because that would be illegal and i dont break the law.

Uriah02
06-25-2011, 12:53 PM
I went with $200 cause AOW isn't that big of a deal to me. Sure I would like to get one but I really want to have SBRs and suppressed rifles.

Rukus
06-25-2011, 1:01 PM
I went with $200 cause AOW isn't that big of a deal to me. Sure I would like to get one but I really want to have SBRs and suppressed rifles.

If you are anywhere but CA trusts are good for getting those items you mentioned. In CA however its about all we can get with the NFA trusts.

AJAX22
06-25-2011, 1:06 PM
It bypasses Cleo signature requirement

blazeaglory
06-25-2011, 1:07 PM
It bypasses Cleo signature requirement

i know that but why does a trust do that? you know? some loophole? and what kind of trust is it? blind? or in trust for the NFA?

usually a trust is something setup to hold in good faith for another person. a family trust? know what i mean?

blakdawg
06-25-2011, 1:15 PM
The amount I would pay depends on the amount of respect I have for the attorney who drafted the trust. I wouldn't call a law firm if I wanted to buy a gun, and I wouldn't call a gun store if I thought I needed legal help.

"OC Armory" is a pretty funny name for a law firm. If it really is a law firm, they're not complying with the California Bar's rules for law firm websites. If it's not a law firm, they're committing a crime by engaging in the practice of law without a license .. unless they're operating as a Legal Document Assistant, in which case, they can't give you any advice or suggestions on setting up the trust, they just follow your instructions on setting it up. And if you're competent to instruct someone on how to create an NFA trust, what do you need them for?

Reviews I've seen of them say that they're nice/good guys - but a non-lawyer who offers to sell you legal advice or to prepare legal documents for you is as legit as a guy who offers to sell you some guns out of the trunk of his car because he thinks FFL's are for people who follow rules, and people who follow rules are ****ies. You can do it if you want to - but you should know, right from the beginning, that you're dealing with someone who doesn't mind breaking the law if it helps him make money.

EBR Works
06-25-2011, 1:16 PM
Not to be the dick who tries to undermine your business, but aren't there tons of (free) tutorials on how to use Quicken Willmaker to setup a Living Trust for NFA Weapons? I agree, there should def be an upcharge for cutting the hassle out of the equation, but $200 puts you competitive with, say, Legalzoom. More than that... Meh, I'll do it myself. Now if you could figure out a way to get us some SBRs, that would be a different story!

--Inq

True, you could do it yourself and some guys have successfully done so. The big concern in using Willmaker is that it might not contain provisions that would be necessary for a fully valid NFA trust. At the very least you should have an attorney review your document for potential problems. Hey, it's only Federal prison time if you get it wrong.

I feel your pain regarding SBR ownership. As I am licensed now and if I lived in most any other free State, I could build them all day long and keep them for personal use along with MG & SBS. California restricts almost all of the benefits of being Federally licensed as an 07/SOT to the point of being unobtainable.



i know that but why does a trust do that? you know? some loophole? and what kind of trust is it? blind? or in trust for the NFA?

usually a trust is something setup to hold in good faith for another person. a family trust? know what i mean?



A trust is a legal entity set up to hold NFA items which bypasses the requirement for CLEO sign off on the form 4 as well as the requirement for a fingerprint card and photo. My understanding is that this may help to streamline the approval process for the form 4 which can take from 2 to 6 months once ATF receives it. Once the form 4 is approved by ATF, the gun still has to be DROSd in California typically as a single shot exempt handgun.

send it
06-25-2011, 1:21 PM
will an NFA trust allow for the purchase of a supressor in CA

EBR Works
06-25-2011, 1:29 PM
will an NFA trust allow for the purchase of a supressor in CA

Unfortunately, not. There is no avenue for legal ownership of cans in California by the average individual.

Hell, I can own them as currently licensed Federally, but by State law I can't let anyone else in California buy, play with or rent them. Very sad...

Jwood562
06-25-2011, 1:32 PM
will an NFA trust allow for the purchase of a supressor in CA

I don't think so... but if it does I would be in on this at almost anyprice, almost...

MrPlink
06-25-2011, 2:06 PM
I don't think so... but if it does I would be in on this at almost anyprice, almost...

any price you say?

there are couple different businesses you could start to do it then.
Very very very $$$

vandal
06-25-2011, 2:08 PM
I have three stamps via a Willmaker trust. It was so easy to set up I thought I must be doing something wrong. Apparently not.

Yes there are, and the ATF has been denying them left and right for not being set up correctly.

AJAX22
06-25-2011, 2:29 PM
I don't think so... but if it does I would be in on this at almost anyprice, almost...

It doesn't

suppressors in CA require an 07/02

you could do that through an LLC, but not through a trust (trust's can't hold FFL's)

figure around 3-4K per year

luckystrike
06-25-2011, 2:30 PM
0. thats howmuch I will pay.

Quiet
06-25-2011, 3:03 PM
Pre-2011...
In Clark County (NV), lawyers normally charge $600 to set up a NFA trust.

Post-2011...
In Clark County (NV), a law group has set up shop and is now charging $199 to set up a NFA trust.

Rukus
06-25-2011, 3:07 PM
The amount I would pay depends on the amount of respect I have for the attorney who drafted the trust. I wouldn't call a law firm if I wanted to buy a gun, and I wouldn't call a gun store if I thought I needed legal help.

"OC Armory" is a pretty funny name for a law firm. If it really is a law firm, they're not complying with the California Bar's rules for law firm websites. If it's not a law firm, they're committing a crime by engaging in the practice of law without a license .. unless they're operating as a Legal Document Assistant, in which case, they can't give you any advice or suggestions on setting up the trust, they just follow your instructions on setting it up. And if you're competent to instruct someone on how to create an NFA trust, what do you need them for?

Reviews I've seen of them say that they're nice/good guys - but a non-lawyer who offers to sell you legal advice or to prepare legal documents for you is as legit as a guy who offers to sell you some guns out of the trunk of his car because he thinks FFL's are for people who follow rules, and people who follow rules are ****ies. You can do it if you want to - but you should know, right from the beginning, that you're dealing with someone who doesn't mind breaking the law if it helps him make money.

Just to be clear, OC Armory is the name of the FFL who sells the AOW's. They do not setup your NFA trust for you. They refer you to someone who does. The $200 price was for someone who prepares the legal documents. I've also been quoted a $500 or so price for a Lawyer to draft up the documents.

Nothing shady is going on with the FFL themselves performing legal documents.

Inquirer
06-25-2011, 3:13 PM
If only we could put stocks and PG's on those SB Saiga-12's! Feel like every time I think of legal loopholes I'll picture it and then think Awww, wait, I can't do that...

oaklander
06-25-2011, 3:56 PM
I charge $600, and work with the attorney who essentially wrote the trust that is the basis for all of this. I think competition is good! I don't make money off of these, but I do want to make sure people get "good ones," since failure is not an option here.

Will maker WILL WORK - but it has no fail safe provisions (like if a bene later becomes prohibited). If there are no failsafes, operation of the trust upon your death WILL make the above bene into an instant felon, merely by operation of law.

There are about 10 other things like this that you HAVE to watch for. I think the statutory penalty for illegal NFA possession is something like 250,000 and 10 years.

Just sayin'

Good legal stuff is expensive for a reason. It's not always required, but having your kid spend 10 years in jail because you wanted to save 400 thirty years ago, is weak, IMHO.

Please don't even get one from me. BUT, get a real one, please.

I'm not posting here to make money. Please don't even buy one from me. I am posting in this thread because I "see" a lot of busts. They are ALWAYS people who just didn't "think."

Sometimes, I feel sorry for those people - but usually, they just piss me off.

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

ke6guj
06-25-2011, 6:01 PM
mine was done via willmaker since nobody was offering NFA-specific trusts in CA at the time. One of these days, I do need to have my trust formally amended with the NFA-specific language.

Poppy83
06-25-2011, 7:21 PM
I have been tempted.to.go the Willmaker route, but I am not a lawyer and don't feel comfortable. I have contacted a lawyer locally and am awaiting his response (damn weekend). I figure a small, one time fee to set up a trust is worth it. After I finish my SBR, then my trust will be obtaining a suppressor as well.

Inquirer
06-25-2011, 7:26 PM
Poppy, on a side note, I have to say that you have the ugliest goddamn picture I've ever seen.

xxINKxx
06-25-2011, 8:44 PM
As an American I don't feel I should have to pay for something that is already one of my rights. So as long as I'm in CA I ain't givin this state any more money, they already take enough from me.

ke6guj
06-25-2011, 8:47 PM
As an American I don't feel I should have to pay for something that is already one of my rights. So as long as I'm in CA I ain't givin this state any more money, they already take enough from me.not sure what money you would be giving them other than the $25 in DROS fees plus sales tax on any AOWs you might purchase, which you already do for other firearms.

AndrewMendez
06-25-2011, 9:12 PM
"A man who is his own lawyer has a fool for his client."

Several months ago, I started an ongoing court battle for custody of my daughter. I read tons of information, read books, talked to lots of people, etc....I had no option but to win. With that being said, I was well prepared to take on the task myself. So I went and happily wrote a check for several thousand, for a lawyer who specializes in child custody.

Quite frankly, you are an idiot, if you are trying to take on this task yourself. Some of you guys blow me away. You will gladly buy an $800 scope for your rifle, but you skip the expenses when setting up a Trust?? What happens when you die? How many people are on your trust?

Now, we have someone like Kevin here. He is charging $600 for a service that is the only thing keeping you and your family, and anyone else who may come into contact with your firearms, out of jail, and you want to leave it to an online service?!?
/rant

Oak, thank you for the work you do.

I charge $600, and work with the attorney who essentially wrote the trust that is the basis for all of this. I think competition is good! I don't make money off of these, but I do want to make sure people get "good ones," since failure is not an option here.

Will maker WILL WORK - but it has no fail safe provisions (like if a bene later becomes prohibited). If there are no failsafes, operation of the trust upon your death WILL make the above bene into an instant felon, merely by operation of law.

There are about 10 other things like this that you HAVE to watch for. I think the statutory penalty for illegal NFA possession is something like 250,000 and 10 years.

Just sayin'

Good legal stuff is expensive for a reason. It's not always required, but having your kid spend 10 years in jail because you wanted to save 400 thirty years ago, is weak, IMHO.

Please don't even get one from me. BUT, get a real one, please.

I'm not posting here to make money. Please don't even buy one from me. I am posting in this thread because I "see" a lot of busts. They are ALWAYS people who just didn't "think."

Sometimes, I feel sorry for those people - but usually, they just piss me off.

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

Riodog
06-25-2011, 9:26 PM
YOU cheap bastards really get my goat. You all want something for nothing.
If I want something bad enough then I'll pay whatever it costs. If the cost is over my price range now then 'oh f**kin well'. I'll do without til I can afford it. While I can afford a twin Cessna, at the moment a Lear just ain't in the budget. If you can't afford the playtoys then find a hobby that you can afford. If I can't buy a box of 45's then maybe I should be shootin a 22.

SO>>>> the answer is...... I'll pay whatever the honest rate is for the work I ask whomever to do. I will not ask anyone to cut their "worth" just" because". If they do then they're not worth it to begin with, but they WILL stand behind it.
Rio

Inquirer
06-25-2011, 9:36 PM
Rio & Drew: You guys absolutely make some good points. But I think most people are voting/approaching it from the opposite direction. Not "I'll scrimp on the money up front because I'm cheap," but more "Yeesh, $600 for an AOW that I'm okay without? Nah."

I don't have any experience with the matter, I just posed the question out of curiosity. In the long run, it is absolutely a good idea to have lawyered up to protect yourself from having to lawyer up. I just think a price point of $200 would make AOW's more attractive and accessible than a $600 mark-up. As in, "Man, I think I'd like a Saiga Pocket. Oh wait, that's gonna run me $250 for the barrel, $100 for the pistol conversion, and $800 for the trust and stamp? Nevermind."

Again, just my $.02. Those with bigger wallets and bigger hard-ons for AOWs may have different opinions, though. In either case, I respect you guys for offering a service to the community at what will be a worthwhile price regardless of what number you guys decide on. I'd rather pay extra for an ex-Mossad Kung Fu Master bodyguard than a 60-year-old Mall Cop, so money well spent for those seeking AOWs as far as I'm concerned.

AndrewMendez
06-25-2011, 10:00 PM
Rio & Drew: You guys absolutely make some good points. But I think most people are voting/approaching it from the opposite direction. Not "I'll scrimp on the money up front because I'm cheap," but more "Yeesh, $600 for an AOW that I'm okay without? Nah."

I don't have any experience with the matter, I just posed the question out of curiosity. In the long run, it is absolutely a good idea to have lawyered up to protect yourself from having to lawyer up. I just think a price point of $200 would make AOW's more attractive and accessible than a $600 mark-up. As in, "Man, I think I'd like a Saiga Pocket. Oh wait, that's gonna run me $250 for the barrel, $100 for the pistol conversion, and $800 for the trust and stamp? Nevermind."

Again, just my $.02. Those with bigger wallets and bigger hard-ons for AOWs may have different opinions, though. In either case, I respect you guys for offering a service to the community at what will be a worthwhile price regardless of what number you guys decide on. I'd rather pay extra for an ex-Mossad Kung Fu Master bodyguard than a 60-year-old Mall Cop, so money well spent for those seeking AOWs as far as I'm concerned.

oh, I completely agree with what your saying, but lets be honest, you get what you pay for (in most circumstances). $200 does sound really nice, but if someone has decided to venture off into the world of AOW's, they are probably not as concerned with their pocket book, as say, your average 22LR weekend warrior who goes shooting with their kids a few times a year. Lawyers are expensive.
This is the way I look at it. These firearms have the power to put you in prison for a long long time. This is not something you just decide to do. This has to be a well thought out game plan, for yourself, and your family. Every T has to be crossed, and every I dotted.
I don't know what a $200 trust would offer opposed to a $600 trust, but I know Oak on a personal level, and I know what he has his hands on is thorough. Not to mention he is a lawyer (not a good one I might add). ;) I don't mind paying good money for a good service.
Again, just my 2 cents.
Andrew

oaklander
06-25-2011, 10:07 PM
Lol, yes - folks - just think all of this through.

;-)


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

chead
06-25-2011, 10:42 PM
Another thing you get with a lawyer: Liability protection. If you do it yourself with Quicken and it goes bad, it's going to be FAR harder to prove you didn't willfully mislead. If you hire a lawyer it's a different story.

arsilva32
06-25-2011, 10:54 PM
YOU cheap bastards really get my goat. You all want something for nothing.
If I want something bad enough then I'll pay whatever it costs. If the cost is over my price range now then 'oh f**kin well'. I'll do without til I can afford it. While I can afford a twin Cessna, at the moment a Lear just ain't in the budget. If you can't afford the playtoys then find a hobby that you can afford. If I can't buy a box of 45's then maybe I should be shootin a 22.

SO>>>> the answer is...... I'll pay whatever the honest rate is for the work I ask whomever to do. I will not ask anyone to cut their "worth" just" because". If they do then they're not worth it to begin with, but they WILL stand behind it.
Rio


very easily said for someone that can afford to dump 100 grand on toys like a airplane and things,but that kind of money is just a pipe dream for me and allot of others.so yea i do want the cheapest option as long as it is done properly.if my price is below a persons worth than they don't have to except it right?

winnre
06-26-2011, 8:04 AM
I paid $200 for my trust, did it right there in the gun store, took about an hour. It is a ONE TIME cost, so I can add more guns to it with no issue at all.

Got my toy in under 6 weeks.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/astcell/uploaded/sss.jpg

Q
06-26-2011, 10:05 AM
I like that coffin case.:43:

Yes, if you live in a free State. Forget it in California unless it's a C&R gun.

Already got a c&r 10/22. Someday, maybe I'll look into getting a tax stamp for it and make it into a g36c in 22lr. :)

cannon
06-26-2011, 10:53 AM
Experience in life has taught me (the hard way) it's cheaper to pay a lawyer before than it is after.

hypnoman
06-26-2011, 12:59 PM
Experience in life has taught me (the hard way) it's cheaper to pay a lawyer before than it is after.

I would agree . . .

ghost
06-26-2011, 5:11 PM
for those prices i'd pass.
my ffl set up my trust up for me for free since i was doing my sbr and suppressor through him.
his regular fee is $50.00

winnre
06-26-2011, 9:28 PM
You can do it with the right paperwork for free. You could copy mine word for word and only pay the notary and there you go. YOU set up the trust, not the lawyer guy.

oaklander
06-27-2011, 2:04 AM
Ha! Some of you guys are missing the point. We encourage folks to use lawyers for stuff like this. But if something goes wrong on a "Quicken Trust," it really does not affect ME.

Some folks are willing to live with more risk than others. It IS a free country!!!

The thing that does concern me, is when beneficiaries are subjected to needless risk.

Again, it's not even something that can be argued over. We pays our price and we takes our chances. That is fair when it is we/us. That is not fair when it is "others."

But - there's no point in arguing. Just do what you think is right. That is the general rule in life.

ETA: I would be an idiot if I did not agree that you could simply take an existing trust and photocopy it. BUT - THIS IS ONLY TRUE IF THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN THAT TRUST ARE THE SAME AS IN YOUR TRUST. Each trust that a lawyer does is slightly different. I'm not saying this to freak people out, or scare people - but in laws relating to property (and a trust is what's called a "future interest"), even a single comma can mean something. Also, if you make certain edits, you can trigger what is called the "Rule Against Perpetuities," which renders your trust invalid. The ATF can't catch that, since most non "property" lawyers get tripped up over that. But a smart DA WILL catch it. Again, just think before you act, and then do what you think is right.

Some people don't like the mere concept of "lawyers" - that is fine. But do not "underestimate" what lawyers do. It's hard to understand, but there is a reason why lawyers get paid money to do "that thing." In general, the more someone does NOT understand the need for a lawyer, the more they NEED a lawyer. Again, just think about what that means. . .

blakdawg
06-27-2011, 9:30 AM
ATF has recently reorganized their processing of NFA paperwork - instead of assigning it to document examiners alphabetically, they'll now be assigned based on the state of residence. So everyone in CA will have the same examiner for their paperwork. The stated goal of this change is to allow the examiners to more fully develop their understanding of state law relevant to their job, since trust law is determined on a state-by-state basis.

The purpose of a trust, legally speaking, is to allow the easy management of property intended to benefit another.

The purpose of a trust, to a value-oriented NFA purchaser, is to avoid paperwork or obstructionist CLEO's.

Those two purposes aren't especially well related. It's essentially a happy accident that trusts don't need a CLEO signoff.

If you focus only on the narrow NFA purpose and ignore the rest of the trust, you may be creating significant other consequences that aren't immediately apparent. You shouldn't just set one of these up, get it past a document examiner at ATF, and figure you're done.

It may be that the do-it-yourself products generate an ATF-compatible document - if so, that's an accident, not by design. I can tell you that the do-it-yourself products, from a general probate/trust law point of view, are generally disasters. I don't think I've seen one yet that's been correctly drafted, signed/executed, and funded. I have seen quite a few that have caused a lot more trouble than would have occurred if the product hadn't been used. The intestacy rules, while not necessarily a perfect fit for every circumstance, are at least well understood, and have been formed over hundreds of years of accumulated human experience.

I think it's funny that people who would never buy a gun based solely on price, are perfectly willing to do that for legal work. Quicken/Suze Orman/Legalzoom trusts are like crappy pot metal guns in peashooter calibers that are enough gun to get you shot or arrested but not enough gun to save your life in a gunfight. People who are serious about guns and self-defense laugh about cheap $125 .25 ACP pistols - and people who are serious about legal issues laugh about do-it-yourself Internet legal documents.

Uxi
06-27-2011, 10:54 AM
For SBR and Suppressor, I would. AOW? nah

winnre
06-27-2011, 11:02 AM
The $200 brings me peace of mind that the guy who did it did a lot of them and knows what he is doing. I sleep better at night because of it.

CHS
06-27-2011, 11:22 AM
Now, we have someone like Kevin here. He is charging $600 for a service that is the only thing keeping you and your family, and anyone else who may come into contact with your firearms, out of jail, and you want to leave it to an online service?!?

What a lot of people might not realize also, is that the trust is essentially a one-time thing.

Once it's done, you can buy NFA goodies at will to add them to the trust.

You can even do a multi-state trust with friends/family in another state so that you CAN own suppressors and SBR's as long as you keep them out of state.

Spending the money is worth it. Period.

EBR Works
06-27-2011, 11:28 AM
You can even do a multi-state trust with friends/family in another state so that you CAN own suppressors and SBR's as long as you keep them out of state.



Golden information right there. :D
.
.
.
.

oaklander
06-27-2011, 11:31 AM
<grin>

;)

Golden information right there. :D
.
.
.
.

high_revs
06-27-2011, 11:32 AM
i picked $200 only because i don't have any aow that peeks my interest. but like all else, paying the fair/market fee to feel safe.. yeah.. i'd do $600 even. just like my taxes.. quicken/turbotax can do it call... i'd surely hate an audit... so i ask an accountant to do it for me for the harder stuff when it happens in a particular tax year.

oaklander is on my list/top of the list should i be interested in aow. :)

AndrewMendez
06-27-2011, 3:42 PM
winnrie, I do want to know where you got that case though. I think I want to make a case like that, for my 1919.

n2k
06-27-2011, 3:59 PM
FYI, ATF is running about 4 months right now for the stamp.

gose
06-27-2011, 4:06 PM
Good legal stuff is expensive for a reason.

Because green-fees, Porches and blow are getting expensive?

More on-topic..... Nothing at all for an AOW trust, since the stuff you can get is so limited and doesnt interest me at all. For an SBR/SBS trust, I'd pay quite a bit, but money isnt really the issue there, unfortunately..

chead
06-27-2011, 4:33 PM
What a lot of people might not realize also, is that the trust is essentially a one-time thing.

Once it's done, you can buy NFA goodies at will to add them to the trust.

You can even do a multi-state trust with friends/family in another state so that you CAN own suppressors and SBR's as long as you keep them out of state.

Spending the money is worth it. Period.

All NFA items? Including full-auto stuff? Because there's a Mac-10 somewhere out there with my name on it..

winnre
06-27-2011, 7:01 PM
I got the Coffin Case from a gunshop in Florida for $149. That's the going rate, google "coffin case" and you may look on musician sites.

If you like that case, wait until you see the shoulder holster I am having made for it.

slick_711
06-27-2011, 9:13 PM
The going rate around here is $200-300.

A family friend gave me a trust to use that he wrote up for me for free, but although an outstanding lawyer, that is not his specialty. What he gave me is an irrevocable trust rather than a revocable living trust and I haven't had a chance to figure out if that's something I can safely use yet, so I haven't filed my paperwork. Worst case, I pay $250 to one of the well known NFA lawyers around here; best case I use what he gave me and my only expense is the tax stamp.

Oaklander was one of the first guys in CA to venture into this, and definitely knows what he's doing. He would be the first guy I'd turn to if I still lived in CA, but to be honest I'm not sure that I'd pay the $600. I don't see how that expense is justified when (to my understanding) all he has to do is change the name and a few details from customer to customer. That said, I don't know what all he's providing so I'm certainly not knocking him. If there's a bit of face time and his advice involved, his time is valuable, law school ain't free.

oaklander
06-27-2011, 11:43 PM
Because green-fees, Porches and blow are getting expensive?

More on-topic..... Nothing at all for an AOW trust, since the stuff you can get is so limited and doesnt interest me at all. For an SBR/SBS trust, I'd pay quite a bit, but money isnt really the issue there, unfortunately..

ANYTHING can be LEGALLY obtained in California. It's just that there are MANY hoops, and you pretty much NEED a lawyer to shepherd the process. There are zero items that are impossible to legally own here. But the cost/benefit ratio is skewed against private citizens in many cases.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

CHS
06-28-2011, 8:52 AM
All NFA items? Including full-auto stuff? Because there's a Mac-10 somewhere out there with my name on it..

Yes.

An NFA trust is an NFA trust. It handles all legal NFA weapons including transferable machine guns. The multi-state trust in a MG-friendly state would allow you to own MG's as part of the trust in that state.

ke6guj
06-28-2011, 9:21 AM
The going rate around here is $200-300.

A family friend gave me a trust to use that he wrote up for me for free, but although an outstanding lawyer, that is not his specialty. What he gave me is an irrevocable trust rather than a revocable living trust and I haven't had a chance to figure out if that's something I can safely use yet, so I haven't filed my paperwork. Worst case, I pay $250 to one of the well known NFA lawyers around here; best case I use what he gave me and my only expense is the tax stamp.


you don't want a IRrevocable trust.

JagerTroop
06-28-2011, 9:29 AM
ANYTHING can be LEGALLY obtained in California. It's just that there are MANY hoops, and you pretty much NEED a lawyer to shepherd the process. There are zero items that are impossible to legally own here. But the cost/benefit ratio is skewed against private citizens in many cases.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

ANYTHING? Even ICBMs filled with black tar heroin and dead hookers? :D

On a serious note, I chose to go with David (below) for my trust. It was very quick and easy. Also, there's always someone there to answer my questions when they arise. David has been very patient with me and my endless questions/concerns. Can Quicken do that?

I don't know what everyone is willing to pay, but I have been doing them successfully for nearly a year with OC Armory here in Laguna Hills for $500.00. (delivery and full instructions included) (end commercial here)

PM me your e-mail for full details.

David

OCArmory
06-28-2011, 9:40 AM
Just to set the record straight about my shop. We do not offer legal services. I recommend to people.
Attorney David Salvin- if you would like legal advice and are not sure what an NFA trust is or how it can be used.
Legal Documents Assistant Gregg Baum- Gregg is a licensed legal documents assistant and provides legal services at your direction. He is mobile and can meet you anywhere (including my shop.)
I have seen both of their trust and they contain very similar information. Both have had several approved form 4's. If anyone has any questions about the NFA process or services we offer please call me at (949)768-5189

HardHatMan
06-28-2011, 9:44 AM
My buddy just set one up and he paid $600. He's big into class 3 stuff (SBR's, suppressors, machine guns, etc.) so it was worth it to him to bypass the CLEO signatures.

winnre
06-28-2011, 11:17 AM
ANYTHING can be LEGALLY obtained in California. It's just that there are MANY hoops, and you pretty much NEED a lawyer to shepherd the process. There are zero items that are impossible to legally own here. But the cost/benefit ratio is skewed against private citizens in many cases.

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

I guess you can have suppressors if you jump through the hoops to become a dealer.


An NFA trust is an NFA trust. It handles all legal NFA weapons including transferable machine guns. The multi-state trust in a MG-friendly state would allow you to own MG's as part of the trust in that state.

I'm going to Florida next weekend, guess what I am going to find!

ArkinDomino
06-29-2011, 2:07 PM
Can an AOW trust be set up between friends? In other words, can I get 3 other good friends in on one trust so we can all get a serbu?

CHS
06-29-2011, 4:48 PM
Can an AOW trust be set up between friends? In other words, can I get 3 other good friends in on one trust so we can all get a serbu?

Yes.

ElToro
08-09-2011, 9:24 PM
i researched this a while back and had multiple emails with Kevin as he is local to me. I decided not to at this time because theres other things id rather have than a serbu at this time. if suppressors, SBS, SBR and full auto were on the relatively easy to get menu in CA i would do it lickity split. the $600 is insignificant in the grand scheme of things if i decide to start with play with federally regulated goodies.