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T-800
06-23-2011, 5:29 PM
Hi everybody I just moved from Idaho and am wondering on what the best brand AK I should get is? Also if anybody could tell me more about the laws here. I guess you can only have 10 round mags etc. Anyway thanks in advance everybody. :)
-Jeremy

Z.1
06-23-2011, 5:53 PM
I'm not an AK guy, but since no one else is gonna say it: Welcome to Calguns!

I'm POSITIVE there will be someone that can help you out instead of just taking a dump all over you....:rolleyes:

Good luck.

ETA: as far as laws go, check out the links at the top of the page "AW & OLL guides (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=448277#mypopupmenu)". Theres some flowcharts that make understanding semiautomatic centerfire rifle laws more manageable

Inquirer
06-23-2011, 6:08 PM
Man, don't you guys get tired of haranguing newbies for asking questions you don't like?

Jeremy: Check out this flow-chart to understand Cali laws a little better:
CalGuns Rifle Legality Chart (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf)

As far as which AK to get, it's pretty much mandated by your budget. Some of the guys here build their own, which isn't the cheapest route but you'll get a rifle that is more "yours" than most.

Aside from that, some commercial options are (in order of price/quality):

Arsenal SG Series (http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/) - as gun reviewer Nutnfancy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkYFlihPNS8) dubs it, the Gold Standard of AKs. These will run you about $800, which many think is sacreligious to spend on an AK. It's essentially a professionally converted Saiga, which is the next option.
Saiga Sporting Rifles (http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga.htm) - Sporting versions of the AK system, these must be converted if you want to use a pistol grip on it. There are tons of tutorials (http://vimeo.com/2787027) and kits (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-678/Saiga-Rifle-Conversion-Kit/Detail?sfs=2850209c) to do it yourself. $350+DROS for the rifle, and about $140 for a conversion kit.
Century Arms WASR-10 - These are the bottom of the barrel, although some users have reported great results and are totally happy with theirs. Others hate them, and report problems like canted sights and magazine seating problems. Henderson Defense (http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-Rifles-and-Carbines-c50.htm) sells "certified" ones at a miniscule mark-up that are free of the WASR's most common problems.


As for the legal angle, you need to be very careful about what you do and say and keep in your house, because felonies are a mistake away. In California, you cannot have detachable mags on a weapon with what are referred to as "features", i.e. things that lend the weapon characteristics of an assault weapon such as pistol grips, forward grips, flash hiders, and collapsible stocks.

So Calgunners opt for one of two routes - the ever-popular Bullet Button (http://www.riflegear.com/p-554-ak47-bullet-button.aspx) to make the magazine unable to be released without the use of a tool (essentially making it an internal magazine, legally speaking). This limits you to ten round mags, but it lets you put on all the Assault Weapon features you want. You can see one installed here (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1857/pa110022600x450rl6.jpg). The other option is to go "Featureless (http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/mcad33/DSC01208.jpg)" - that is to say, keep all assault weapon features off and use what's called a grip wrap (http://www.solartactical.com/AK-SAIGA-SERIES_c34.htm) to prevent you from having a pistol grip that can have the thumb wrapped around it. I'm not sure about the numbers, but I think generally AR guys go with Bullet Buttons and AK folk like Featureless builds. Featureless builds then allow you to use detachable mags, and if you owned them prior to 2001, hi-cap mags.

That about sums it up. People will voice their opinions either way on the grip wrap/bullet button debate, it's just down to what you prefer to shoot.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the forums. A good rule of thumb would be to use a search function before posting, because Calgunners seem to be a little irritable these days due to similar threads popping up. Also, do a bit more research about the legal stuff before you embark. You can't take anybody's word as gospel, and most of us aren't lawyers.

--Inq

Richard Erichsen
06-23-2011, 6:09 PM
Thanks Z1. Im not too sure about the other posters. Is everybody on drugs in this state?

T-800,

Welcome to the forums. Our lively bunch have likely had their fill of any topic with "SHTF" and "what brand of [black rifle pattern here] should I buy?" topics. If you use the search function, you'll see why.

Shake it off, the sting won't last long. There is still great advise to be had, just make some effort to be sure it's not ground that has been covered/beaten to death/dug back up and beaten again for good measure. And remember, search is your friend. ;)

R

IPSICK
06-23-2011, 7:53 PM
Can't beat this...

http://www.chevyhhr.net/gallery/files/2/0/0/1/5/1082107210831072109610851080108210861074.jpg

Anyone know if this is off-list?

frankm
06-23-2011, 7:59 PM
Thanks Z1. Im not too sure about the other posters. Is everybody on drugs in this state?

No but it helps!

Buy a Saiga, Wasr, or Arsenal.

bob7122
06-23-2011, 8:41 PM
or valmet, galil

ZX-10R
06-24-2011, 7:03 AM
Go to an AK specific site. Answers galore...All AKs are reliable. Best thing is to fondle a bunch....
I have owned 3 WASRs and a PSL. All function and perform EXCEPTIONALLY.
I have shot a Yugo and am now in search of one. So many chances to get one 5 years ago and I let them go.

Lots of info on AK specific sites. Search here as well.

SJgunguy24
06-24-2011, 7:55 AM
I'm building a featureless Saiga 223 conversion that feeds from AR mags. Best of both worlds.

AndrewNotary
06-24-2011, 8:08 AM
Pick your favorite caliber is the first choice if you like the AK platform.
.223 Saiga
5.45 Saiga, AK74 etc
7.62x39 Saiga, AK47 etc
7.62x51(.308) Saiga
7.62x54 Dragunov / PSL for DMR
Or the shotguns 12 Gague / 410 etc Saiga

Kind of a big vague question that could have been answered by browsing the forum first but here's a start.

peterhodges
06-24-2011, 10:57 AM
Saiga.

Lone_Gunman
06-24-2011, 11:00 AM
M1A

762.DEFENSE
06-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Can't beat this...

http://www.chevyhhr.net/gallery/files/2/0/0/1/5/1082107210831072109610851080108210861074.jpg

Anyone know if this is off-list?

I want this...I must have this! :43:

762.DEFENSE
06-24-2011, 11:06 AM
Man, don't you guys get tired of haranguing newbies for asking questions you don't like?

Jeremy: Check out this flow-chart to understand Cali laws a little better:
CalGuns Rifle Legality Chart (http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf)

As far as which AK to get, it's pretty much mandated by your budget. Some of the guys here build their own, which isn't the cheapest route but you'll get a rifle that is more "yours" than most.

Aside from that, some commercial options are (in order of price/quality):

Arsenal SG Series (http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/) - as gun reviewer Nutnfancy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkYFlihPNS8) dubs it, the Gold Standard of AKs. These will run you about $800, which many think is sacreligious to spend on an AK. It's essentially a professionally converted Saiga, which is the next option.
Saiga Sporting Rifles (http://www.raacfirearms.com/Saiga.htm) - Sporting versions of the AK system, these must be converted if you want to use a pistol grip on it. There are tons of tutorials (http://vimeo.com/2787027) and kits (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-678/Saiga-Rifle-Conversion-Kit/Detail?sfs=2850209c) to do it yourself. $350+DROS for the rifle, and about $140 for a conversion kit.
Century Arms WASR-10 - These are the bottom of the barrel, although some users have reported great results and are totally happy with theirs. Others hate them, and report problems like canted sights and magazine seating problems. Henderson Defense (http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-Rifles-and-Carbines-c50.htm) sells "certified" ones at a miniscule mark-up that are free of the WASR's most common problems.


As for the legal angle, you need to be very careful about what you do and say and keep in your house, because felonies are a mistake away. In California, you cannot have detachable mags on a weapon with what are referred to as "features", i.e. things that lend the weapon characteristics of an assault weapon such as pistol grips, forward grips, flash hiders, and collapsible stocks.

So Calgunners opt for one of two routes - the ever-popular Bullet Button (http://www.riflegear.com/p-554-ak47-bullet-button.aspx) to make the magazine unable to be released without the use of a tool (essentially making it an internal magazine, legally speaking). This limits you to ten round mags, but it lets you put on all the Assault Weapon features you want. You can see one installed here (http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1857/pa110022600x450rl6.jpg). The other option is to go "Featureless (http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu65/mcad33/DSC01208.jpg)" - that is to say, keep all assault weapon features off and use what's called a grip wrap (http://www.solartactical.com/AK-SAIGA-SERIES_c34.htm) to prevent you from having a pistol grip that can have the thumb wrapped around it. I'm not sure about the numbers, but I think generally AR guys go with Bullet Buttons and AK folk like Featureless builds. Featureless builds then allow you to use detachable mags, and if you owned them prior to 2001, hi-cap mags.

That about sums it up. People will voice their opinions either way on the grip wrap/bullet button debate, it's just down to what you prefer to shoot.

Hope this helps, and welcome to the forums. A good rule of thumb would be to use a search function before posting, because Calgunners seem to be a little irritable these days due to similar threads popping up. Also, do a bit more research about the legal stuff before you embark. You can't take anybody's word as gospel, and most of us aren't lawyers.

--Inq

Fixed your statement :) If you have the above mentioned "features" then you can't have a detachable magazine. Other than that you did a great job explaining CA AW Laws to a n00b.

Inquirer
06-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Thanks, 7.62! Corrected the error. Now I feel pro. :cool2:

I don't think he even read it, though... :|

ritter
06-24-2011, 12:20 PM
Thanks, 7.62! Corrected the error. Now I feel pro. :cool2:

I don't think he even read it, though... :|

Well, I read it and appreciate it, if that makes you feel better. :)

shadow65
06-24-2011, 12:41 PM
Old Norinco, but then it's probably illegal in CA.

Arnelcheeze
06-24-2011, 4:32 PM
Old Norinco, but then it's probably illegal in CA.Yes it is on the list of evilness.

OP, get a Saiga/Arsenal in 7.62

sharkforce
06-24-2011, 4:56 PM
build your own AK

Inquirer
06-24-2011, 6:11 PM
Well, I read it and appreciate it, if that makes you feel better. :)

Thanks Ritter, it helps. Dislike when people post, get the answer, and bail.

H2O MAN
06-24-2011, 6:17 PM
Old Norinco, but then it's probably illegal in CA.

Yes it is on the list of evilness.



An old Norinco or Poly Tech would be my 1st choice... sorry about them being on 'the list'.

T-800
06-24-2011, 7:10 PM
Thanks for the advice but im leaning toward the ak-74 with the price of ammo and being able to carry more 5.45 etc. I like the saiga but doesnt it only have 10 round mags? What if I move back to Idaho?

chead
06-24-2011, 7:17 PM
You can get larger mags, but obviously standard AK mags won't work.

Inquirer
06-24-2011, 7:24 PM
The same site I linked you sells things called "Bullet Guides" which allow you to use standard AK mags. You can't buy larger mags here, and you can't bring them with you from out of state. So it's kind of a moot point. However, they make 10-round AK Mags in 5.45 and 7.62.

Freagan
06-24-2011, 7:30 PM
Anything newbies ought to look for when buying a converted saiga?

5968
06-24-2011, 7:48 PM
Buy a Saiga. If you feel the need for the "AK" look do a conversion on it. I own both a Lancaster AK and a Saiga that I converted. If I had it to over again, I would have bought and converted another Saiga instead of buying the Lancaster. Welcome to Calguns.

nicoroshi
06-24-2011, 8:01 PM
build your own AK

This^^^
Then choose your flavor.
7.62x39
5.45x39
5.56x45
.308
There are many different variants of the AK platform. Everything from a heavy 21" barrel RPK to a short barreled AK pistol with everything in between.

Best SHTF?
Depends on the situation.
Holding up in the castle fending off zombies?
Bugging out for safer grounds?
Indoor urban environment or outdoor country?

My suggestion:
Decide what's best for you based on an educated guess at your own potential future needs. Train with it. If the fecal matter does impact the rotating oscillator at maximum velocity don't forget the most important stuff. Food, Water, Shelter.

tujungatoes
06-24-2011, 9:27 PM
This^^^
Then choose your flavor.
7.62x39
5.45x39
5.56x45
.308
There are many different variants of the AK platform.

Nico, you forgot 8mm mauser....:43:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/tujungatoes/2011-06-22_17-47-15_836.jpg

mlevans66
06-24-2011, 9:43 PM
Can't beat this...

http://www.chevyhhr.net/gallery/files/2/0/0/1/5/1082107210831072109610851080108210861074.jpg

Anyone know if this is off-list?

WTH!? :eek: Where do I get this?! My wife would hate it but I love it!

chead
06-24-2011, 10:19 PM
Anything newbies ought to look for when buying a converted saiga?

Ragged cuts, poorly-shaped trigger guard. Take the stock and grip off if you can and see how they've been attached. Is the rear trunnion replaced (ideal), ground down (less than). Has the pistol grip nut hole (heehee) been cut to the proper size? Is there lots of slop in the magwell (if it's been converted to take AK mags)?

pyro3k2
06-24-2011, 10:40 PM
Nico, you forgot 8mm mauser....:43:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/tujungatoes/2011-06-22_17-47-15_836.jpg

The rifle the PSL and the SVD wish they could be...The M76 a truely amazing rifle.

chead
06-24-2011, 11:02 PM
What's a reasonable price on an M76, and are there cheaper clones?

SJgunguy24
06-24-2011, 11:24 PM
Anything newbies ought to look for when buying a converted saiga?

Find out who did the conversion and research from there. Anything can be fixed, if you find a good deal, jump on it.

T-800
06-25-2011, 6:23 AM
Seems like alot of hassle converting. Maybe I should just get an ak.

NorCalK9.com
06-25-2011, 8:08 AM
Seems like alot of hassle converting. Maybe I should just get an ak.

Yup or like Nicoroshi said buil your own. But once you do boy oh boy you will get the sickness.
Warning: building AK's can be hazardous to your health. May cause relationship hardships, loss of hair, may find yourself on the internet looking at kits at 2a.m., decrease of appetite, knose bleeding, dizziness and 100's of other symptoms

zfields
06-25-2011, 8:18 AM
Thanks for the advice but im leaning toward the ak-74 with the price of ammo and being able to carry more 5.45 etc. I like the saiga but doesnt it only have 10 round mags? What if I move back to Idaho?

You can get larger mags, but obviously standard AK mags won't work.

The same site I linked you sells things called "Bullet Guides" which allow you to use standard AK mags. You can't buy larger mags here, and you can't bring them with you from out of state. So it's kind of a moot point. However, they make 10-round AK Mags in 5.45 and 7.62.

AK 74 mags will work without a bullet guide.

zfields
06-25-2011, 8:20 AM
Seems like alot of hassle converting. Maybe I should just get an ak.

converting takes all of 1-2 hours, a drill, file, a twist tie, and needle nose pliers.

zfields
06-25-2011, 8:23 AM
Ragged cuts, poorly-shaped trigger guard. Take the stock and grip off if you can and see how they've been attached. Is the rear trunnion replaced (ideal), ground down (less than). Has the pistol grip nut hole (heehee) been cut to the proper size? Is there lots of slop in the magwell (if it's been converted to take AK mags)?

MOST saiga's do not need the magwell or grip nut hole cut. When you remove the old trigger guard its already been cut.

What keeps the 7.62 saigas from working with stock mags is the lack of bullet guide ( piece of 1/2 iron pipe shaped to fit if you have a round trunion, otherwise pick up the danzig part guide ), and the mag release lever is a touch to long.

Javi
06-25-2011, 8:25 AM
After looking at two Saiga conversion vids, I'd do it. I'm no handy man but seems easy enough. Don't think I've seen the conversion of the front end yet, though. I haven't watched an AK one in a whilee but still intimidated and probably sending parts to AZ to be built.

tjlayzer
06-25-2011, 8:36 AM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the VEPR in 7.62 x39 version to the OP yet. I guess they're either rare or only a few folks who have owned or fired one. I know Atlantic Firearms sells them or at least they still have an ad for them.

Atlantic Firearms
06-25-2011, 11:21 AM
Here is a picture of the Russian Vepr rifle in 762 x 39 we also expect to see these in .308 & 762 x 54R very soon .


http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/data/default/images/catalog/large/VEPR%20CONVERT1.jpg

NorCalK9.com
06-25-2011, 3:08 PM
That wood combo on the vepr is ugly and uncomdtorable as sh#t

pyro3k2
06-25-2011, 6:35 PM
What's a reasonable price on an M76, and are there cheaper clones?

Around a 1k for the rifle is a great deal and thats for the Century built ones. No clones that I can think of...

gotshotgun?
06-25-2011, 9:15 PM
That wood combo on the vepr is ugly and uncomdtorable as sh#t

Your wrong opinion....

That gun is the cream of the AK crop...

chead
06-25-2011, 9:19 PM
Around a 1k for the rifle is a great deal and thats for the Century built ones. No clones that I can think of...

Are they still being produced? My Googling suggests this could be my next rifle..

ih8ca
06-26-2011, 5:03 PM
Vepr 2 if you can find one. They rarely come up for sale.

T-800
06-26-2011, 8:04 PM
Gunbroker.

pyro3k2
06-26-2011, 10:05 PM
Are they still being produced? My Googling suggests this could be my next rifle..

yes they are, J&G sales has them in stock usually. But they don't ship to CA, however (comma) recently they have become more CA friendly and started to ship saiga's in. Possibly in the future they may have the CA complaint option on their site. Assualt weapons of ohio has them for around $1350, but they aren't made by century and are very close to actual Yugo specification. They sell parts kits for around 900 as well, but if I was buying a +1k parts kit it's going to be a krink. Just know that they are going to be a pretty penny but high quality yugo mil surplus ammo is still cheap and abundant.

chead
06-26-2011, 10:22 PM
I looked in bulk and what I found was $1+ a round. I assume the surplus is way, way cheaper, but is it corrosive?

NorCalK9.com
06-27-2011, 8:16 AM
Your wrong opinion....

That gun is the cream of the AK crop...

I know that I didnt say it was bad rifle lol I said the stock meaning the wood on the back of the rifle is uncomftorable but it could be cause I wasnt use to it. To op good luck with your next buy.

michaelstoys
06-28-2011, 1:14 PM
ARSENAL CANNOT GO WRONG I GOT 1 AND ITS TOP NOTCH