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View Full Version : Is it illegal to carry ammunition in a buttstock carrier while travelling?


Vacaville
06-21-2011, 3:49 PM
Here's a question for those who are legally inclined.

I recently went to the range with a couple of friends and had some rounds in my buttstock carrier on my rifle, which I always carry in a locked case. When I took it out at the range one of my friends pointed out that he was pretty sure that it was illegal to transport live ammo in the same container with my gun. I assured him that it wasn't, but now I'm not so sure. Can someone please clarify this for my friend and I?

Thanks

Librarian
06-21-2011, 4:10 PM
Definitely legal, so long as no rounds in the chamber or the magazine.

That was the exact situation in People vs Clark in 1996. See the wiki article on loaded -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California

Vacaville
06-21-2011, 4:17 PM
Thanks

Notorious
06-22-2011, 9:19 AM
So the speedfeed stocks for shotguns would presumably fall under the same situation?

Merc1138
06-22-2011, 9:53 AM
So the speedfeed stocks for shotguns would presumably fall under the same situation?

A speed feed isn't the magazine or chamber, so that would make it unloaded. It wouldn't matter if you had custom slots in the stock for shells, a attachment on the stock to hold shells, or duct taped the shells to the stock. The link that Librarian provided is pretty cut and dry about this(thanks to the case also referenced). Anything else about keeping ammo separate is just FUD that keeps being passed around.

BigDogatPlay
06-22-2011, 11:59 AM
Definitely legal, so long as no rounds in the chamber or the magazine.

That was the exact situation in People vs Clark in 1996. See the wiki article on loaded -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Defining_loaded_in_California

:iagree: ... the whole "shells on the gun" issue is one of the single biggest items of FUD that still, for whatever reason, stubbornly clings to life. LEOs, gun shop and range workers, even hunter safety and other instructors pop off with it from time to time. Clark is controlling and very, very clear on point.

So the speedfeed stocks for shotguns would presumably fall under the same situation?

Merc1138 has it... a Speedfeed with internal storage is exactly the same. In that respect they are no different than a sidesaddle or a buttcuff full of shells.

SVT-40
06-22-2011, 12:40 PM
The reasons for the misinformation, I believe is the definition of "loaded" in the penal code.

Here is the definition of "loaded" per 12031(g) PC

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in, or
attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not
limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm.

It's the bolded part above which confuses some.

As said above Clark is more clear on the subject.

The PC should be changed to be more in line with Clark.

tonelar
06-22-2011, 12:51 PM
Was there a difference between long guns and handguns in what was condidered loaded?
I remember years ago hearing that with long guns it was less strict but can not find any difference in the Cali codes.

Maybe Im confusing the locked case aspect of transporting handguns as opposed to long guns.

chadrish
06-23-2011, 10:39 PM
I wish I could find the case law, but there is case law that determined a shotgun with rounds attached on the sleeve of the stock was considered loaded...I am lazy tonight so I don't feel like looking for it.

Librarian
06-23-2011, 11:19 PM
I wish I could find the case law, but there is case law that determined a shotgun with rounds attached on the sleeve of the stock was considered loaded...I am lazy tonight so I don't feel like looking for it.

People v. Clark (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/People-v-Clark-(1996).pdf)(1996) 45 Cal.App.4th 1147 , 53 Cal.Rptr.2d 99 said exactly the opposite.

Notorious
06-24-2011, 12:31 AM
Good, maybe it's just people's own interpretations.