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View Full Version : Another Single Shot Question... Sorry.


DRAB_81
06-17-2011, 11:11 AM
I normally don't buy into stuff like this, but this concerned me a little. I was talking to an FFL the other day, and happened to ask about a single shot Draco.

I was told that during a DOJ inspection/audit (I can't remember what they said it was exactly), the people from DOJ said they were going to come down hard on everyone involved in these transactions. FFL's, Buyers, Everyone. I found it hard to believe that the DOJ could track down EVERYONE for a couple reasons.

1. The shear volume of Single Shot transactions done in CA to date.
2. What are they going to do, go door to door?
3. The Law allows for these exemptions.

Can there be any recourse to the buyer (or seller for that matter), for purchasing a Single Shot Converted pistol?


I was also told that the DOJ was watching LEO exempt people who are selling their Off-Roster pistols to Non-LEO's, basically assuming that they are ALL straw purchases. Any teeth in that either?

wash
06-17-2011, 11:21 AM
That sounds like someone trying to make a sale.

CA can't come down on FFLs for legal transactions (selling roster exempt guns).

LEOs using their status to circumvent the roster in a quasi-straw purchase could get shut down but that has nothing to do with the FFL or someone not doing that.

timdps
06-17-2011, 11:26 AM
I normally don't buy into stuff like this, but this concerned me a little. I was talking to an FFL the other day, and happened to ask about a single shot Draco.

I was told that during a DOJ inspection/audit (I can't remember what they said it was exactly), the people from DOJ said they were going to come down hard on everyone involved in these transactions. FFL's, Buyers, Everyone.

And its going to happen in

:twoweeks:

timdps
06-17-2011, 11:31 AM
I was also told that the DOJ was watching LEO exempt people who are selling their Off-Roster pistols to Non-LEO's, basically assuming that they are ALL straw purchases. Any teeth in that either?

So they are going to go after every LEO that sells an off roster gun to someone else? I'm sure all of the law enforcement agencies in CA are going to be really happy about that one... Don't really know what the relationship between the DOJ and law enforcement is like, but this sure would not help.

Tim

Connor P Price
06-17-2011, 11:33 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if somebody from doj said that. That doesn't make it true though.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

Sub95
06-17-2011, 11:36 AM
if they dont have the correct ffl license ( manufactuing i think ) might get in trouble :shrug: as the dealer here was telling me about this when his was building AR-15 they wanted him to have the correct license for that.

DRAB_81
06-17-2011, 12:57 PM
They were giving me advice, and said "DO NOT buy a SSC Pistol, it's not worth it. DOJ will come after you if you do" (paraphrased of course). They weren't trying to sell me anything, trust me, so they had no reason to steer me away from this. I didn't think any of what I was told was accurate, I just wanted to double check. Thanks fellers.

bwiese
06-17-2011, 1:06 PM
DOJ agents are spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) misinformation whereever it will possibly be accepted and/or where no A/V security cameras are running.

In fact, DOJ has audited multiple FFLs that are doing high-volume Roster-exempt transfers (single-shot exemption, etc.)

These guys all did fine in this regard.

Interestingly, one particular DOJ employee told N different stories / N different recommendations to N separate FFLs. N-1 videos are available of these matters and CGF lawyer is well aware of this and we keep having to wipe the drool from his lip.


If such Xfers were illegal, "We'd All Be in Jail Now" - and those FFLs would be shut down immediately (i.e, like if he were illegally selling AWs or selling guns out the back door without papering, etc.)

Traditional old-fart FFLs don't necessarily understand the limits of the law, or strangely somehow hold DOJ agents in great respect for their mental acuity. Or, they could be worried about two decades of old noncomputerized 4473 paperwork and somehow think kissing *state* DOJ's rear end will somehow allow oversights in the *Federal* 4473 paperwork arena to be overlooked by BATF.

The issue of officers - as well as others - selling guns in bulk - is a separate issue. We know that they are looking at people trying to make money and being 'frequent flyer' sellers on the forums here and elsewhere.

If you wanna sell a gun you have, fine.
If you wanna buy and sell guns in a shorter time window to make a profit, go get an FFL and state permit.

bwiese
06-17-2011, 1:09 PM
if they dont have the correct ffl license ( manufactuing i think ) might get in trouble :shrug: as the dealer here was telling me about this when his was building AR-15 they wanted him to have the correct license for that.

Because he was building a whole gun from a receiver, and there are excise tax issues.

Wholly separate matter ... taking a non-Rostered 1911 or Gen4 Glock - and dropping a long barrel and long grip screw in it to render it a 12125PC single-shot Roster exempt handgun. This is not FFL07 manufacturing given the drop-in nature of parts, and the fact the item is a full handgun already.

gunn
06-17-2011, 1:15 PM
Because he was building a whole gun from a receiver, and there are excise tax issues.

Agree

Wholly separate matter ... taking a non-Rostered 1911 or Gen4 Glock - and dropping a long barrel and long grip screw in it to render it a 12125PC single-shot Roster exempt handgun. This is not FFL07 manufacturing given the drop-in nature of parts, and the fact the item is a full handgun already.

Wasn't there some (attempted) overreaching by the ATF to classify firearms refinishing as "manufacturing" and therefore requiring an FFL07?

Since the input is a full handgun and the output is also a full handgun, you could compare refinishing the same as converting a gun to single shot status.

I think it was a few years ago.

Q: Did anything come out of that (aka stick)?

-g


-g

DRAB_81
06-17-2011, 1:55 PM
DOJ agents are spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) misinformation whereever it will possibly be accepted and/or where no A/V security cameras are running.

In fact, DOJ has audited multiple FFLs that are doing high-volume Roster-exempt transfers (single-shot exemption, etc.)

These guys all did fine in this regard.

Interestingly, one particular DOJ employee told N different stories / N different recommendations to N separate FFLs. N-1 videos are available of these matters and CGF lawyer is well aware of this and we keep having to wipe the drool from his lip.


If such Xfers were illegal, "We'd All Be in Jail Now" - and those FFLs would be shut down immediately (i.e, like if he were illegally selling AWs or selling guns out the back door without papering, etc.)

Traditional old-fart FFLs don't necessarily understand the limits of the law, or strangely somehow hold DOJ agents in great respect for their mental acuity. Or, they could be worried about two decades of old noncomputerized 4473 paperwork and somehow think kissing *state* DOJ's rear end will somehow allow oversights in the *Federal* 4473 paperwork arena to be overlooked by BATF.

The issue of officers - as well as others - selling guns in bulk - is a separate issue. We know that they are looking at people trying to make money and being 'frequent flyer' sellers on the forums here and elsewhere.

If you wanna sell a gun you have, fine.
If you wanna buy and sell guns in a shorter time window to make a profit, go get an FFL and state permit.

Thank You Sir!!! I love this place.

Now I just need to find a Draco...

bm-bill
06-17-2011, 2:06 PM
meathead, since you are in Lodi, make a trip over to Tracy Rifle and Pistol. They are not that far from you and are very single shot conversion friendly.

Don't know if they have any Dracos in stock, but you can get their contact info in the Vendor area of this forum, they have there own section. Here is a shortcut:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=210

Good luck.