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View Full Version : more than 80% lower's legal or illegal?


JaMail
06-16-2011, 9:11 AM
Saw this and wondered? Also saw 2 guys selling more than 80%'s at the last gunshow and wondered about it.

someone selling more than 80%, from description sounds like its closer to 95%
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=445527


If its more than 80% wouldnt that make it a firearm needing DROS ? if so, is this breaking the law? either buying or selling?

Im mostly curious since i just ordered tactical machining's 5 pack and if its legal, i wouldnt mind doing the hard parts for my boss, then giving it to him to do the final drill holes.

Thanks for any input.

bwiese
06-16-2011, 9:19 AM
There is ZERO codification at any governmental level of what an "80%" (non)gun is. There may be a few clarification letters.

One man's 80% is a dunce's 50% and in turn is an expert machinst's 92%.

There is also perhaps some risk that an object that passes the smell test w/Feds as a "non-gun" could conceivably be regarded in California as "enough of a gun to require DROS".

Again, "80%" is a term that really has no legal significance. It was invented to try to "nail jelly to a tree" in describing the gun vs non-gun raw material boundary.

Being incorrect about this during a transfer could get you in trouble.

BKinzey
06-16-2011, 9:38 AM
...Im mostly curious since i just ordered tactical machining's 5 pack and if its legal, i wouldnt mind doing the hard parts for my boss, then giving it to him to do the final drill holes.

Thanks for any input.

If it's a true 80% and you perform any work on it then you have made a firearm so when you "give it to him to do the final drill holes" you are transferring a firearm. The owner of the completed firearm needs to all the work on the 80%. Your plan looks to be walking on thin ice.

Blood Ocean
06-16-2011, 9:59 AM
A good perspective to consider is that the 1st cut made to take the receiver from 80% to 80%+ is the true manufacturing of a firearm. Once that cut is made you need to treat the receiver as you would any firearm. With that in mind you could have your boss make the 1st cut himself and then you help him work on his firearm. I wouldn't recomend shipping in any way, and keep it locked for transport just like you would a complete rifle. I'm not saying this is how the law would be interpreted but I'm comfortable enough with it, YMMV.

JaMail
06-16-2011, 10:39 AM
I think Bill's is the best answer / non answer there is. Its another rule that would have different interpretations. Someone with a mill who has done tons of these (roccobro) would consider an 80% to be a 95% for his skill level.

For someone with no jig, no mill, and no instructions, the commonly accepted definition of an 80% would be a 20%.

so this seems to be whatever the judgement of the person selling it and saying it is.


thanks for everyones response.

bwiese
06-16-2011, 10:40 AM
There has been ATF drama surrounding KT Ordnance/its customers.

I'd be careful.

JaMail
06-16-2011, 10:53 AM
agreed, this is not one of the ones I'd be willing to test case on.