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cousin avy
06-15-2011, 8:33 PM
So Iím going to Yosemite . . . Read a bunch of threads with awesome info about open carry (thanks to all of you who contributed your insight and thoughts, the info was very helpful.) One thing I could never really grasp . . .

"The discharge of a firearm for any reason is illegal"

So why do they allow individuals legally able to possess a firearm the ability to unloaded open carry or unloaded locked concealed carry in the park? Whatís the point? Is it to give individuals a false sense of security?

Listen, I'm going, and I am taking my piece with me. And should I get attacked by a wild animal or a human being threatening my safety, circumstances permitting, Iím going to use my firearm to defend myself or my wife. Guess I am going to get a ticket or worse case arrested for defending myself, legally.

I guess my point is, why let people bring a weapon into the park, and then make it unlawful to discharge it for "any reason"

Iím not trying to start a debate, just looking for some insights, personal opinions, whatever you may want to offer me. Please forgive me in advance if more threads exist on this exact topic. Feel free to point me in the right direction, should that be true.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts . . . .

wash
06-15-2011, 8:36 PM
They let people carry in the park because they can't prohibit it.

They prohibit firing a gun because they can.

It doesn't make sense but they aren't required to make sense.

ubet
06-15-2011, 9:33 PM
Honestly, you are better off shooting a human than a bear :(.

dotalchemy
06-15-2011, 10:04 PM
It's the same reason I can walk down Walnut Creek main street with a firearm. Unloaded Open Carry.

Doesn't mean I can discharge it in the middle of the street.

Love the username, by the way :)

Crom
06-15-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm of a similar mindset on the self defense aspect, I would use my weapon to defend myself and my family and I'll bring to bear all of my resources to legally defend myself if necessary. :chris:

Also, Just because there is a law on the books does not mean that it will be enforced in all situations.

IntoForever
06-15-2011, 11:21 PM
As many times as I've been to Yosemite, I've never found myself in the position where I need any sort of self defense. I have had a time or two when I wanted to smack someone for looking at my camera then standing in front of it when there was just three of us in the entire meadow.

Remember, tourist season doesn't mean you can shoot them.

Cobrafreak
06-16-2011, 6:32 AM
I've read cases where shooting a bear to save ones life brought a hail of prosecution from the Federal Government for a bunch of animal rights laws. Don't shoot a bear. You would probably piss it off and it would then eat you.

rogervzv
06-16-2011, 6:56 AM
It's the same reason I can walk down Walnut Creek main street with a firearm. Unloaded Open Carry.

Doesn't mean I can discharge it in the middle of the street.

Love the username, by the way :)

Not after the new law becomes effective though, right?

haole_50
06-16-2011, 7:12 AM
Don't need no gun in Yosemite; just eat some Kimchee, that will keep all wildlife away (at least the bear won't think you smell like strawberry shampoo), and your friends.

Canucky
06-16-2011, 7:36 AM
http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2010/03/23/1359436/national-parks-gun-regulations.html

vincewarde
06-16-2011, 10:49 PM
Not only can you not have a gun, you can't carry bear spray - which is the preferred method of dealing with bear attacks. Can we say stupid?

Discharging a firearm in self defense is illegal too.

The first person who opens fire on a bear who is attacking someone else should raise the point that they would not have had to shoot the bear if they allowed bear spray.

And the first person charged with discharging a firearm in legitimate self defense should have a solid constitutional defense.

In my younger days, I spent a lot of time in Yosemite - but now that it has left the US (and even California!) NEVER AGAIN.

17+1
06-17-2011, 8:46 AM
Make sure to be ready for Rangers to be yelling at you and an e-check everytime you see one of them, they told me they're "required to check"...they're hit or miss, some are respectful, others will treat you like a criminal.

I had one ranger in Lassen National Park ask me to stow my pistol in my pack because he didn't want me to scare the lone rookie up at the area we were headed to. I asked him if that constitutes concealed and stated that I do not have a locked case so I believe that would be in violation...he had no clue about the law and I had no intention of doing what he requested, even if it was legal. He told me taking the slide off would be enough...I should have gotten his name, now that I think about it.

I just nodded and walked off down the road after the e-check. I noticed he was shaking pretty good (I guess I look very threatening, waving, smiling and greeting them...) when I was asking him for directions on the map. :p

National Forest Rangers are much more relaxed...they'll chit-chat with you like your pistol isn't even there, which is what I expect.

vantec08
06-17-2011, 8:50 AM
Why should they make sense? Its about touchy-feely, not reality.

Lostsheep
06-17-2011, 9:19 AM
WRT bears:

Not a single person has been killed by a bear in the 150 years since they started keeping track of deaths in the valley. There has been maulings, but no deaths.

Also, remember that if you do plan on carrying for bear defense that you should go ahead and shave off the front sight.

MudCamper
06-17-2011, 9:30 AM
The need for carry in the NPs is not about bears. It's about the real dangerous predators, humans. Given the park sees over 4 million visitors per year, that means that the park sees over 40,000 sociopaths per year.

Liberty1
06-17-2011, 1:25 PM
There has been maulings, but no deaths.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

Liberty1
06-17-2011, 1:30 PM
The need for carry in the NPs is not about bears. It's about the real dangerous predators, humans. Given the park sees over 4 million visitors per year, that means that the park sees over 40,000 sociopaths per year.

Who needs a gun in Yosemite? http://www.yosemitegold.com/yosemite/sund.htm

Barkoff
06-17-2011, 9:04 PM
"unloaded locked concealed carry" That just triggers my gag reflex.

gunsmith
06-17-2011, 10:57 PM
WRT bears:

Not a single person has been killed by a bear in the 150 years since they started keeping track of deaths in the valley. There has been maulings, but no deaths.

Also, remember that if you do plan on carrying for bear defense that you should go ahead and shave off the front sight.

yeah, and black bears have never killed anyone in Georgia either, but one state away in Tennessee they killed a little girl in a gun free utopia.
In NY State Adirondacks or Catskills had never had a black bear attack that was fatal ( plenty of maulings but whatever) but when it did happen a baby was killed. The parents dutifully banged a frying pan while their infant got chewed.

Black bear deaths in NORTH AMERICA happen all the time, always seem to be the UNARMED people that DIE ....

Good for you guys that you are one with nature or something, maybe Treadwell resonates with you. When I go to bear country, I carry a gun & I urge you to do the same.

I will agree though that you are more likely to need it against the worlds most dangerous predator. ... humans.

gunsmith
06-17-2011, 10:59 PM
the best caliber for bear attack is a .22LR revolver, shoot the nearest person in the knee & run!

ccmc
06-18-2011, 5:56 AM
yeah, and black bears have never killed anyone in Georgia either, but one state away in Tennessee they killed a little girl in a gun free utopia.
In NY State Adirondacks or Catskills had never had a black bear attack that was fatal ( plenty of maulings but whatever) but when it did happen a baby was killed. The parents dutifully banged a frying pan while their infant got chewed.

Black bear deaths in NORTH AMERICA happen all the time, always seem to be the UNARMED people that DIE ....

Good for you guys that you are one with nature or something, maybe Treadwell resonates with you. When I go to bear country, I carry a gun & I urge you to do the same.

I will agree though that you are more likely to need it against the worlds most dangerous predator. ... humans.

So how many people get killed every year by black bears as opposed to say sharks? In either case the number's probably pretty low (obviously sucks if you're the one statistic). Here in FL I think the sharks probably win out (but very few swim while carrying), but statistically you're more likely to get struck by lightning than get attacked by wildlife (even gators). I've only seen a black bear once while hiking (a momma with two cubs - and you can bet I kept my distance). No doubt humans are the most dangerous threats whether in an urban or wilderness environment.

PowderBurn1
06-18-2011, 6:11 AM
To the OP:
Thanks for this thread. I am doing a four day 46.6 mile loop next summer in Yosemite and have been wondering about this very topic.

TNP'R
06-18-2011, 10:06 AM
I just came back from camping in Yosemite I had my shotgun in plain sight and had two rangers came up on two different occasions and talked to me about activities they were having, not once did they say anything about my shotgun and I know they seen it because it was in plain sight no one could miss it.

But anyway if its a life and death situation then firing the firearm would be my choice id deal with the law later. The rangers said there was mountain lion sightings near where i was camping so I felt safer with it.

ubet
06-18-2011, 10:18 AM
I know this has been asked, but since we are on the topic, you can carry, just not in the buildings, is this correct?

(I have a ccw)

TNP'R
06-18-2011, 10:23 AM
I know this has been asked, but since we are on the topic, you can carry, just not in the buildings, is this correct?

(I have a ccw)

yeah no federal owned buildings like ranger stations and things like that.

Lostsheep
06-18-2011, 10:38 AM
yeah, and black bears have never killed anyone in Georgia either, but one state away in Tennessee they killed a little girl in a gun free utopia.
In NY State Adirondacks or Catskills had never had a black bear attack that was fatal ( plenty of maulings but whatever) but when it did happen a baby was killed. The parents dutifully banged a frying pan while their infant got chewed.

Black bear deaths in NORTH AMERICA happen all the time, always seem to be the UNARMED people that DIE ....

Good for you guys that you are one with nature or something, maybe Treadwell resonates with you. When I go to bear country, I carry a gun & I urge you to do the same.

I will agree though that you are more likely to need it against the worlds most dangerous predator. ... humans.


I have been carrying for as long as it has been legal for me to do so. I've done my time and I aint no Treadwell. I'm just smart enough to realize that (black) bears are not really a threat.


Not a single person has been killed by a bear in the 150 years since they started keeping track of deaths in the valley. There has been maulings, but no deaths.

Find an instance of a bear related death in Yosemite......I challenge thee.

hornswaggled
06-18-2011, 10:39 AM
As many times as I've been to Yosemite, I've never found myself in the position where I need any sort of self defense. I have had a time or two when I wanted to smack someone for looking at my camera then standing in front of it when there was just three of us in the entire meadow.

Remember, tourist season doesn't mean you can shoot them.

Sorry that was me. You guys were taking forever with the F-stop.

ubet
06-18-2011, 10:42 AM
yeah no federal owned buildings like ranger stations and things like that.

How about the convienence stores and stuff?

TNP'R
06-18-2011, 11:41 AM
How about the convienence stores and stuff?

As long as its not owned by the government its ok.

MudCamper
06-18-2011, 1:03 PM
I know this has been asked, but since we are on the topic, you can carry, just not in the buildings, is this correct?

(I have a ccw)

Correct. Since you have a CCW, you can carry loaded and concealed, except in federal facilities, which are buildings with federal employees working in them.

Without the CCW, you'd be stuck with only UOC.

Bobby Hated
06-18-2011, 1:25 PM
thanks guys. im going next wkend and i thought i couldnt bring a firearm. glad to know the law got changed.

paul0660
06-18-2011, 1:33 PM
Federal buildings have to be POSTED no weapons at the entrance, otherwise you may carry there.

tuolumnejim
06-18-2011, 2:13 PM
So how many people get killed every year by black bears as opposed to say sharks? In either case the number's probably pretty low (obviously sucks if you're the one statistic). Here in FL I think the sharks probably win out (but very few swim while carrying), but statistically you're more likely to get struck by lightning than get attacked by wildlife (even gators). I've only seen a black bear once while hiking (a momma with two cubs - and you can bet I kept my distance). No doubt humans are the most dangerous threats whether in an urban or wilderness environment.

This is for your bolded comment above, I live less than 24 miles from Yosemite and this picture was taken by me in my yard, it's even my avatar. This is also one of two bears I've had in my yard, I didn't get a picture of the other one because it was giving me a charge, it turned out to be a bluff charge of which I was extremely glad.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n104/tuolumnejim/Animals/100_1130-1.jpg

cousin avy
06-18-2011, 2:56 PM
I can’t thank all of you enough for all the comments. They were helpful in my decision to bring along my piece. I just got back from our trip. My wife and I did the Yosemite Upper Falls Hike. (Nasty hike- but I am no seasoned Hiker, so it’s probably cake to some of you seasoned outdoorsman) I see there are different points of view at play here, and I respect all of them. I ended up carrying a dual mag pouch on my belt, and I kept my firearm locked with a combo pad-lock, one digit off from open, in my hiking pack. I did not open carry, for personal reasons. No disrespect to those of you that do.

In hindsight, there was never an incident or situation where I would have needed a firearm there, however I am glad I brought my firearm (weather it was a false sense of security or not) in case a hopeless situation presented itself. I have come to the conclusion that if I ever do need to use my firearm in self-defense or in the defense of a loved one, I fully expect the with the upmost certainty that I will be sued civilly, charged and/or prosecuted criminally, and will be forced to spend a lot of money out of pocket to defend myself from these scenarios. Personally, I believe that to be a wise position to take on the matter, in addition to being a responsible firearm owner - the definition of which I will leave to interpretation.

Thanks again for all of your comments . . . They really helped.

ccmc
06-19-2011, 8:27 AM
This is for your bolded comment above, I live less than 24 miles from Yosemite and this picture was taken by me in my yard, it's even my avatar. This is also one of two bears I've had in my yard, I didn't get a picture of the other one because it was giving me a charge, it turned out to be a bluff charge of which I was extremely glad.

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n104/tuolumnejim/Animals/100_1130-1.jpg

Is that a black bear? Much bigger than the ones we have in FL. Cool pic. BTW I did some research. It looks like there has never been a verified incident where a human was killed by a bear in Florida, and I can't recall if there has even been an attack on a human by a bear in Florida in my lifetime. Even gator attacks are pretty rare (I will admit to being a little apprehensive when I see them while canoeing or kayaking - they're pretty fast, both in the water and on land).

ubet
06-19-2011, 10:17 AM
My wife and I along with my parents went to Yosemite yesterday, what a wreck. I have never seen that many people there, or congestion like that. Its what I would assum LA traffic looks like with a 5000 car pile up. Took us 2 hours just to go a couple miles. It was miserable.

TNP'R
06-19-2011, 10:33 AM
My wife and I along with my parents went to Yosemite yesterday, what a wreck. I have never seen that many people there, or congestion like that. Its what I would assum LA traffic looks like with a 5000 car pile up. Took us 2 hours just to go a couple miles. It was miserable.

Yep when I went on the 13th they were doing construction and a 15 minute wait turned into a 30 minute wait.

S.A.
06-19-2011, 11:33 AM
The need for carry in the NPs is not about bears. It's about the real dangerous predators, humans. Given the park sees over 4 million visitors per year, that means that the park sees over 40,000 sociopaths per year.

In the late 90's, a Yosemite park employee convicted of killing four women. Yes, I would be more concerned with humans than bears.

gunn
06-19-2011, 11:39 AM
Is that a black bear? Much bigger than the ones we have in FL. Cool pic. BTW I did some research. It looks like there has never been a verified incident where a human was killed by a bear in Florida, and I can't recall if there has even been an attack on a human by a bear in Florida in my lifetime. Even gator attacks are pretty rare (I will admit to being a little apprehensive when I see them while canoeing or kayaking - they're pretty fast, both in the water and on land).

FYI:
Black bears can come in all different colors -- not just black.
http://www.americanbear.org/FUR.htm

Grizzlies are even bigger. They are extinct in CA and I hope i don't ever meet one in the wild.
http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org/BeBearAware/Bears_of_North_America/Black_Grizzly_ID/black_grizzly_id.html


-g

misterjake
06-19-2011, 12:02 PM
I've read cases where shooting a bear to save ones life brought a hail of prosecution from the Federal Government for a bunch of animal rights laws. Don't shoot a bear. You would probably piss it off and it would then eat you.

As opposed to it eating you in a good mood?

gunsmith
06-19-2011, 1:41 PM
So how many people get killed every year by black bears as opposed to say sharks? In either case the number's probably pretty low (obviously sucks if you're the one statistic). Here in FL I think the sharks probably win out (but very few swim while carrying), but statistically you're more likely to get struck by lightning than get attacked by wildlife (even gators). I've only seen a black bear once while hiking (a momma with two cubs - and you can bet I kept my distance). No doubt humans are the most dangerous threats whether in an urban or wilderness environment.

in Florida the most dangerous animals are blue haired old ladies driving a Cadillac

vincewarde
06-19-2011, 5:47 PM
Who needs a gun in Yosemite? http://www.yosemitegold.com/yosemite/sund.htm

EXACTLY

TNP'R
06-19-2011, 9:40 PM
To be honest, I don't think you need a firearm if you are going on most trails as they are over crowded with tourists and a bear or any animal for that matter would have to be rabid or something to approach someone with that many people around. if you tent camping that's the only reason I would see you needing a firearm.

paul0660
06-19-2011, 9:52 PM
To be honest, I don't think you need a firearm if you are going on most trails as they are over crowded with tourists and a bear or any animal for that matter would have to be rabid or something to approach someone with that many people around. if you tent camping that's the only reason I would see you needing a firearm.

Stakes matter, not odds. I would be surprised if you never heard that before.

ubet
06-19-2011, 11:08 PM
The guy that killed those women (stayner), I am not sympathetic, but his family story is pure tragedy. His brother (or close relative of close to same age) was kidnapped and held for 14 years or so, they made a movie about it, I Know My Name Is Stephen. I THINK, the murdered walked in and found his uncle hung in a barn in Merced, Ca. One of them was molested as a child, I am sketchy on all the details, but after knowing people who personally knew is family, its not much of a surprise what he did.

ccmc
06-20-2011, 11:58 AM
FYI:
Black bears can come in all different colors -- not just black.
http://www.americanbear.org/FUR.htm

Grizzlies are even bigger. They are extinct in CA and I hope i don't ever meet one in the wild.
http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org/BeBearAware/Bears_of_North_America/Black_Grizzly_ID/black_grizzly_id.html


-g

Thanks for those interesting links. The black bears in Florida are indeed black just as the link described for bears living in forested humid climates.

A grizzly is also something I only want to see at a far distance or in a zoo. I once came real close to a bison while hiking in North Dakota, and that was pretty scary. Fortunately it just looked at me and continued grazing. Guess it didn't figure a skinny guy like me was much of a threat :)