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TheFlyingAfrican
06-14-2011, 8:37 PM
hi all

Got a hypothetical question.

If you live in SF, and legally own a handgun, but don't own a car (or motorbike) as many San Franciscan's don't.

How are you to transport your firearm to a shooting range? E.g. you can't take BART?

taperxz
06-14-2011, 8:39 PM
Unloaded and in a locked container

paul0660
06-14-2011, 8:40 PM
Why can't you take BART?

dantodd
06-14-2011, 8:43 PM
Why can't you take BART?

Maybe because it doesn't stop at the range?

Librarian
06-14-2011, 8:55 PM
Locked case, unloaded should be sufficient for all non-prohibited public places. There's no reason BART or MUNI can prohibit or limit carry that way; I don't know if they have, but it would not surprise me if at some time they might try. Such an effort ought to stop if properly challenged.

Damn True
06-15-2011, 12:06 AM
Step #1 - Buy douchey de rigueur single speed bike that isn't actually fixed gear but looks like it is.
Step #2 - Buy ultra-hip courier bag made of some form of recycled material.
Step #3 - Dress like a hipster jackwagon. Moppy hair, "ironic" graphic tee, women's jeans, colored framed Ray-Ban wayfarers, keds and a scarf and cardigan regardless of the weather. If you can somehow cologne yourself with eau-de-PBR so much the better.
Step #4 - Place cased weapon in ultra-hip courier bag, ride douchey de rigueur single speed to your destination. You will arrive unmolested by the SFPD because they don't actually enforce "laws" in the strict sense of the word.

You are welcome.


.....and it's San Francisco. Only Dodger fans say "San Fran"

Confusion
06-15-2011, 12:18 AM
Well, in L.A. it is against the 'Customer Code of Conduct' to bring a weapon on a bus or train.

"Weapon or instrument intended for use as a weapon” includes but is not limited to
firearms, switchblade knives, axes, gravity knives, box cutters, straight razors,
unpackaged razor blades, swords, nunchucks, explosives, dangerous chemicals or
devices, radioactive materials, and highly combustible materials."

However they cite:
Penal Code § 245.2; Penal Code § 247(b)
Penal Code § 653k

Which relate to assault with a deadly weapon, firing at an uninhabited/unoccupied vehicle or building and "switchblades" in a vehicle or public area.

I ride the bus a lot.. with a locked bag. I keep the locks close to the body, and otherwise ride as normal.

Deucer
06-15-2011, 12:21 AM
Step #1 - Buy douchey de rigueur single speed bike that isn't actually fixed gear but looks like it is.
Step #2 - Buy ultra-hip courier bag made of some form of recycled material.
Step #3 - Dress like a hipster jackwagon. Moppy hair, "ironic" graphic tee, women's jeans, colored framed Ray-Ban wayfarers, keds and a scarf and cardigan regardless of the weather. If you can somehow cologne yourself with eau-de-PBR so much the better.
Step #4 - Place cased weapon in ultra-hip courier bag, ride douchey de rigueur single speed to your destination. You will arrive unmolested by the SFPD because they don't actually enforce "laws" in the strict sense of the word.

You are welcome.


.....and it's San Francisco. Only Dodger fans say "San Fran"

:rofl::rofl:

Librarian
06-15-2011, 12:48 AM
Well, in L.A. it is against the 'Customer Code of Conduct' to bring a weapon on a bus or train.

"Weapon or instrument intended for use as a weapon” includes but is not limited to
firearms, switchblade knives, axes, gravity knives, box cutters, straight razors,
unpackaged razor blades, swords, nunchucks, explosives, dangerous chemicals or
devices, radioactive materials, and highly combustible materials."

However they cite:
Penal Code § 245.2; Penal Code § 247(b)
Penal Code § 653k

Which relate to assault with a deadly weapon, firing at an uninhabited/unoccupied vehicle or building and "switchblades" in a vehicle or public area.

I ride the bus a lot.. with a locked bag. I keep the locks close to the body, and otherwise ride as normal.

It's entirely reasonable, if redundant, to prohibit the referenced behaviors on public transit.

After all, those things are crimes no matter where in the state the may be committed.

safewaysecurity
06-15-2011, 12:54 AM
LUCC /thread

2Bear
06-15-2011, 12:56 AM
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/07/07/468955.1-lg.jpg

Maestro Pistolero
06-15-2011, 1:07 AM
I carried a Sig p228 in a slightly flamboyant Eddie Bauer side bag for very reason of image perception for 17 years in CA. Never ONCE was questioned or challenged. If I ever pulled my CCW permit out, it had been in the dark for so long, my own photo was squinting in the light of day.

wizdumb
06-15-2011, 1:09 AM
Like 2Bear mentioned, get yourself a ZipCar subscription. They're really handy for range trips.

zipcar.com

tonelar
06-15-2011, 1:16 AM
There really are no stupid questions...

mag360
06-15-2011, 2:07 AM
Step #1 - Buy douchey de rigueur single speed bike that isn't actually fixed gear but looks like it is.
Step #2 - Buy ultra-hip courier bag made of some form of recycled material.
Step #3 - Dress like a hipster jackwagon. Moppy hair, "ironic" graphic tee, women's jeans, colored framed Ray-Ban wayfarers, keds and a scarf and cardigan regardless of the weather. If you can somehow cologne yourself with eau-de-PBR so much the better.
Step #4 - Place cased weapon in ultra-hip courier bag, ride douchey de rigueur single speed to your destination. You will arrive unmolested by the SFPD because they don't actually enforce "laws" in the strict sense of the word.



ahahaha soooo true.

ccmc
06-15-2011, 4:50 AM
it's San Francisco. Only Dodger fans say "San Fran"

I've heard flight attendents say that. Merle Haggard even called it Frisco in one of his songs :eek:

louderthangod
06-15-2011, 7:39 AM
When I taught in SF most of my students called it Frisco. Most of them were project kids from Double Rock and Sunnydale so maybe it's just their thing. Merle Haggard has earned the right to call it whatever he wants.

SG_Niner
06-15-2011, 8:12 AM
Put it in a locked case put in your back pack and go.

Curley Red
06-15-2011, 8:42 AM
There really are no stupid questions...

But there are plenty of stupid answers unfortunately.

Wherryj
06-15-2011, 8:47 AM
I've always heard the cities by the bay referred to as "Frisco" and "Jokeland". At least that's what they were called in the south bay...

2Bear
06-15-2011, 10:21 AM
"Jokeland".

That's funny. :cool:

Confusion
06-15-2011, 11:14 AM
It's entirely reasonable, if redundant, to prohibit the referenced behaviors on public transit.

After all, those things are crimes no matter where in the state the may be committed.

Well, that is my logic.. these things are not any more illegal just because I am on a bus versus a car or walking. I realize I am violating Metro's rules, but to the best of my knowledge I am not breaking any laws.

Back to the topic at hand, a search of the BART website (http://www.bart.gov/index.aspx) does not show anything in regards to carrying a weapon. Searches of 'gun' and 'firearm' only brings up results regarding crimes, including one about an 'arms bust' at a station.
So I would think it's ok, so long are you are not 'sweating inappropriately.'

wash
06-15-2011, 11:29 AM
It might be better to avoid BART while transporting a gun, BART cops are a little trigger happy.

Zimz
06-15-2011, 11:31 AM
I know people who open carry on BART, I doubt you will get any hassle LUCC.

1911_sfca
06-15-2011, 12:54 PM
Step #1 - Buy douchey de rigueur single speed bike that isn't actually fixed gear but looks like it is.
Step #2 - Buy ultra-hip courier bag made of some form of recycled material.
Step #3 - Dress like a hipster jackwagon. Moppy hair, "ironic" graphic tee, women's jeans, colored framed Ray-Ban wayfarers, keds and a scarf and cardigan regardless of the weather. If you can somehow cologne yourself with eau-de-PBR so much the better.
Step #4 - Place cased weapon in ultra-hip courier bag, ride douchey de rigueur single speed to your destination. You will arrive unmolested by the SFPD because they don't actually enforce "laws" in the strict sense of the word.

You are welcome.


.....and it's San Francisco. Only Dodger fans say "San Fran"

HAhahahaah

As someone who lives in SOMA, I have to tell you, you nailed it 100%.

freedomtools
06-15-2011, 2:28 PM
BART is OK with with unloaded firearms in a locked container according to their spokesperson Michael Moran. I asked them, received an affirmative response, and transported that way all the way to the airport. Received no interest from BART Police. I believe that they are educated on the subject of legal firearms transportation. I also confirmed with Mr. Moran that concealed carry with a permit is entirely legal on BART (for the few to whom that option applies, obviously).

Deucer
06-15-2011, 5:18 PM
HAhahahaah

As someone who lives in SOMA, I have to tell you, you nailed it 100%.

+1. Soma. Goddamn hipsters.

wizdumb
06-15-2011, 11:00 PM
.....and it's San Francisco. Only Dodger fans say "San Fran"

Please. To those of us who live here, it's "The City".

hoffmang
06-15-2011, 11:15 PM
BART is OK with with unloaded firearms in a locked container according to their spokesperson Michael Moran. I asked them, received an affirmative response, and transported that way all the way to the airport. Received no interest from BART Police. I believe that they are educated on the subject of legal firearms transportation. I also confirmed with Mr. Moran that concealed carry with a permit is entirely legal on BART (for the few to whom that option applies, obviously).

That last bit is a nice additional fact. Thanks!

-Gene

gcvt
06-15-2011, 11:48 PM
hi all

Got a hypothetical question.

If you live in SF, and legally own a handgun, but don't own a car (or motorbike) as many San Franciscan's don't.

How are you to transport your firearm to a shooting range? E.g. you can't take BART?

If I had to, I'd just take a cab to Jackson Arms. Or I'd take public transportation to San Bruno and either take a cab from there or walk the 1.9 miles.

Damn True
06-16-2011, 9:01 AM
Please. To those of us who live here, it's "The City".

I forgot an important point.

Step #5 - After spending about $1k on the official uniform of the San Francisco Hipster Douchebag it is critical to rail against "consumerism" and "corporate robber-barons" at every opportunity while smoking imported cigarettes.

ccmc
06-16-2011, 11:19 AM
Please. To those of us who live here, it's "The City".

Since there's no emoticon it's hard to tell what you mean. But just so San Francisco residents don't get to feeling too awesome compared to the rest of us, people in suburban areas all across the country talk about going to "The City" when going downtown. Even in the outer boroughs of NYC people say they're going to "The City" when they go to Manhattan.

Confusion
06-16-2011, 7:26 PM
BART is OK with with unloaded firearms in a locked container according to their spokesperson Michael Moran. I asked them, received an affirmative response, and transported that way all the way to the airport. Received no interest from BART Police. I believe that they are educated on the subject of legal firearms transportation. I also confirmed with Mr. Moran that concealed carry with a permit is entirely legal on BART (for the few to whom that option applies, obviously).

That last bit is a nice additional fact. Thanks!

-Gene

I want to ask this question of L.A. Metro, however I have no idea who to address it to: http://www.metro.net/about/contact/management-staff-directory/

I'm thinking Karen Gorman (Chief Ethics Officer – Acting Inspector General) or Lonnie Mitchell (Chief Operations Officer) but honestly I don't know.

gunsmith
06-16-2011, 8:33 PM
when I lived in frisco ( if Mark twain & the Hells Angels can call it that so can I )
I would often take the train (that train station near the ball park) to ssf & walk to jackson arms, I carried rifles/pistols all the time ( in accordance with CA law regarding transport of firearms ) on public transportation for yrs and yrs with zero problem.

hoffmang
06-16-2011, 9:51 PM
when I lived in frisco ( if Mark twain & the Hells Angels can call it that so can I )
I would often take the train (that train station near the ball park) to ssf & walk to jackson arms, I carried rifles/pistols all the time ( in accordance with CA law regarding transport of firearms ) on public transportation for yrs and yrs with zero problem.

Caltrain may be technically a common carrier and thus subject to the federal laws on "must tell the conductor."

It's a long story as to why that includes an odd case out of the 2nd Circuit..

Proceed with caution on Caltrain.

-Gene

gunsmith
06-16-2011, 10:21 PM
dang! I had no idea, thanks! I guess they would need probable cause?
( to search?) I'm glad my gun cases were the same as my guitar cases!!

wizdumb
06-16-2011, 11:00 PM
Since there's no emoticon it's hard to tell what you mean. But just so San Francisco residents don't get to feeling too awesome compared to the rest of us, people in suburban areas all across the country talk about going to "The City" when going downtown. Even in the outer boroughs of NYC people say they're going to "The City" when they go to Manhattan.

It was self-deprecating humor :)

huck
06-17-2011, 8:03 AM
LUCC /thread

Can't find this one anywhere.
Licensed Unloaded Concealed Carry?
(If I'm licensed, why am I unloaded?)

...or maybe...

Lancaster University Canoe Club
Land Use and Climate Change
Life University College of Chiropractic
Latinos United of Carroll County

huck
06-17-2011, 8:06 AM
Can't find this one anywhere.
Licensed Unloaded Concealed Carry?
(If I'm licensed, why am I unloaded?)

...or maybe...

Lancaster University Canoe Club
Land Use and Climate Change
Life University College of Chiropractic
Latinos United of Carroll County

Oh... LOCKED Unloaded Concealed Carry (now I get it)
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=78606&highlight=lucc

owenriquez
06-17-2011, 8:19 AM
make friends with a shooter that drives and own a car, or ride a cab...

Andy Taylor
06-17-2011, 8:42 AM
My aunt who lived in Four Falls, New Brunswick, Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Falls,_New_Brunswick

Called Presque Isle, Maine "The City"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presque_Isle,_Maine


In other words, there is no one "The City" and it is all relative.

osokne
06-17-2011, 8:47 AM
How are you to transport your firearm to a shooting range? E.g. you can't take BART?

Gonna just throw this out there as "food for thought". (I am NOT telling you what's okay to do, you make up your own mind).

I have, to a limited extent, been loosely involved in the "controversial" practice of UOC - (Unloaded Open Carry). Through this, I have met a very wide variety of down to earth, fellow law-abiding citizens. As one could assume, when we gather, we tend to "talk-story" and relate various experiences.

One gentleman I've become good friends with, is a former Marine & a Veteran of 2 foreign wars. Although he is past retirement age, he still works. His commute takes him nearly the entire length, of one of the BART lines. He actually Open Carries, on the BART train. Remaining seated the entire time and sitting in such a manner that most folks don't even know he has a .45 on his hip. He has become acquainted with several BART police officers and there have been no issues.

Now, I don't know what BART's official policy is and all the usual rules (loc/st/fed) still apply, but based on this, I don't think that there would be any legal issue, if you decided to lock up your gun in one container and your ammo/mags/speedloaders, in another.

Contrary to popular belief, your lockable container need not be "hard sided", like a plastic or aluminum box. As long as you can lock out access, a backpack, gym bag, or similar, is fine. For instance, when I go the range (by private vehicle) the handgun(s) is/are locked in a backpack and ammo/mags/eyes/ears/targets, etc... are locked in a rolling tool bag.

ccmc
06-17-2011, 10:30 AM
It was self-deprecating humor :)

That's the best kind.

kwansao
06-18-2011, 12:07 AM
BART is OK with with unloaded firearms in a locked container according to their spokesperson Michael Moran. I asked them, received an affirmative response, and transported that way all the way to the airport. Received no interest from BART Police. I believe that they are educated on the subject of legal firearms transportation. I also confirmed with Mr. Moran that concealed carry with a permit is entirely legal on BART (for the few to whom that option applies, obviously).

thank you for the info.

Barkoff
06-18-2011, 6:07 AM
I carried a Sig p228 in a slightly flamboyant Eddie Bauer side bag for very reason of image perception for 17 years in CA. Never ONCE was questioned or challenged. If I ever pulled my CCW permit out, it had been in the dark for so long, my own photo was squinting in the light of day.

Your CCW has a photo on it?

Andy Taylor
06-18-2011, 9:57 AM
Your CCW has a photo on it?

There is a spot on a CA CCW marked "Photo (optional)" to the right of the thumb print. On Sac CCWs this area is filled with the part of the alcohol restriction that doesn't fit on the line for restrictions. I don't know what other IAs do.

hoffmang
06-18-2011, 11:37 AM
Your CCW has a photo on it?

There are a few issuing authorities that have invested in driver's license like ID machines such that their permits look like FL or UT permits.

Most just laminate the rice paper after folding it.

-Gene

wildhawker
06-18-2011, 12:19 PM
There are a few issuing authorities that have invested in driver's license like ID machines such that their permits look like FL or UT permits.

Most just laminate the rice paper after folding it.

-Gene

Maybe the more modern authorities can help run a bill to get rid of the list of firearms and get Utah-ish licenses throughout the state. Right now they're doing it at their own risk.

(a)(3)(A) Applications for amendments to licenses, applications for licenses, amendments to licenses, and licenses shall be uniform throughout the state, upon forms to be prescribed by the Attorney General.