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View Full Version : San Fran Pink Pistol March. Sunday Jun 26th


nicki
06-14-2011, 5:08 AM
Once again it is time to march in San Francisco.

What better way to show the city how much we love them by putting a "Self Defense" contingent in their biggest annual parade.

We are on a roll here, we hit Long Beach, West Hollywood and now San Francisco.

This time we got flags and bullhorns.
Let's be Loud and Proud.

This is NorCal's opportunity to show SoCal how it is done.:43:


Nicki

Luieburger
06-14-2011, 7:25 AM
I'll be there for sure. I have many friends who are part of the gay community, and they have been very supportive of my 2nd Amendment rights. The best I can do is stand up for their rights as well. I'll take the Cal Train up (I don't expect any parking to be available within 20 miles). Do we need to sign up, or just show up? Am I limited on how many friends I can bring?

edsel6502
06-14-2011, 8:48 AM
I'm in.

berto
06-14-2011, 9:08 AM
I'm in.

jdberger
06-14-2011, 10:01 AM
IN!

putput
06-14-2011, 11:26 AM
I'm in. Not sure about Mrs. PutPut.

AndrewMendez
06-15-2011, 12:20 AM
Damn Nicki, not to shabby at all. Where is Oaklander and his chaps?

Lex Arma
06-15-2011, 6:25 PM
My wife and I would attend IF we can register my chevy truck and ride in the parade. We can even decorate truck with Non-permanent signs, posters, etc. Ok to have some people ride in the bed of truck too.

nicki
06-15-2011, 7:00 PM
Guys,

Don would like to bring his truck. The time is late but I will see what we can do.

The issue with his truck is "two fold".

The first are additional parade fees, but that shouldn't be an issue.

The main issue we will have is having "traffic safety monitors".

To become a "traffic safety" monitor will require attending a 2 hour class before the parade in San Fran.

I will touch base with Tom Boyer on this, but we have to act real fast on this one.

If we pull this one off, we will have DON KILMER joining our group, that alone should motivate all of you to come because you know Don will share with us his wisdom.

For those of you who missed it, Don Kilmer is our side's lawyer in both the Nordyke and Richards case.

If you recently got a CCW permit in Sacramento, it is because of Don's hard work.

Don has been HARDCORE on not just gun rights, but all rights for as long as I have known him which is well over 15 years.

Let's make this happen.

Nicki

bronsht
06-15-2011, 7:11 PM
Lordy, I'd love to march but I am having surgery the 24th. I may be all right by Sunday but there is no way I could stand around a few hours in any sun and then walk for hours. If I'm recovered I could sit in Mr. Kilmer's vehicle but only if he allowed me.

Any of you could come visit for a stop in SF after the parade as I live near the Mission Dolores. One vehicle can park in my driveway for free (free parking in SF-oh my).
bronsht

nicki
06-15-2011, 8:14 PM
http://sfpride.org/?ifr=parade/

Thursday, June 16
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Saturday, June 18
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
11:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 235
Venue: Koret Auditorium, SF Library
Address: 100 Larkin Street, SF

Sunday, June 19
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
2:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 235
Venue: Koret Auditorium, SF Library
Address: 100 Larkin Street, SF

Monday, June 20
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Wednesday, June 22
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Thursday, June 23
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Friday, June 24
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 500
Venue: Bill Graham, Larkin Hall
Address: 99 Grove Street, SF

1st hour of each training is contingent monitor training. The 2nd hour of training is safety monitor training. Volunteers who are safety monitors, and not part of a contingent, are required to attend both hours.

Advance registration is not required. Please arrive on-time to prevent being turned away from a full training class. All training sites are wheelchair accessible.


Here is the link for monitor training dates. Time is short, I need at least 4 of you to step up so that we can get Don into the parade.

I am going to get up to the city this Saturday for training, but we need a few more bodies to make this happen.

Don's truck will require 4 of us. Considering how much he has done for Gun Rights, he deserves to be able to take his truck and his wife to the parade, so let's make this happen.

I have already sent an e mail about the fees, that is something I can deal with now. What I haven't been able to do is "Clone myself".

Of course if I ever make a "Clone" of myself, cloning will probably become a capital offense.

Nicki

nicki
06-15-2011, 8:23 PM
SF Pride Parade along Market Street

Sunday, June 26th, 2011

Parade kicks off at 10:30 a.m. at Market Street & Beale and ends at Market & 8th Street in downtown San Francisco [MAP]

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&ll=37.787946,-122.408295&spn=0.024724,0.038452&z=15&msid=107401048173585038838.0004647ba95e5b7b3d693

AndrewMendez
06-15-2011, 8:50 PM
I want to see Dons vehicle. Nicki, we should make a float!!!

Lex Arma
06-15-2011, 8:57 PM
I want to see Dons vehicle. Nicki, we should make a float!!!

Float not quite. Banners and streamers, ok.

2003 Chevy Avalanche.

Mrs. Lex Arma
06-15-2011, 9:23 PM
Come on Don, a float would be fun! I say let,s go all out. It's a parade.:):):)

Luieburger
06-15-2011, 9:29 PM
So... I guess we just show up?

hoffmang
06-15-2011, 10:20 PM
There will be a rally point announced as we get closer.

-Gene

tboyer
06-15-2011, 10:23 PM
I'll be there for sure. I have many friends who are part of the gay community, and they have been very supportive of my 2nd Amendment rights. The best I can do is stand up for their rights as well. I'll take the Cal Train up (I don't expect any parking to be available within 20 miles). Do we need to sign up, or just show up? Am I limited on how many friends I can bring?
Just show up, you don't need to sign up
Thanks

oaklander
06-15-2011, 10:29 PM
Ack!!!! I totally both spaced and overbooked. I soooooooo wanted to go to this one. Last year, I was just starting to date Sierra, and kind of dropped off the scene for a while (for a worthy cause, we are now SUPER happily married).

:D

SO - this year I was like "MUST GO" - since the one before the last one was WAAAAAAY FUN!!!

But then, someone mentioned a "build party" (and I spaced on the dates) - so now I'm stuck with a bunch of young sweaty guys with large tools, just kind of swinging them around. Oh yes, and there's that build party too. . .

EPIC OAK FAIL

Guys and gals - please accept my apologies, and I will vigorously pound several large rivets in your honor!!!!

Luieburger
06-15-2011, 11:06 PM
"build party"

We should have the build party on the back of the float/truck; invite people from the crowd for build tutorials.

oaklander
06-15-2011, 11:19 PM
I'm thinking a "Hollywood" forge and a real anvil would be cool!!! Then we could put on shiny black blacksmith aprons, and flex our biceps!!!

Or, we could put on shemaghs and do the Pakistani "cave gun maker" thing. That might not go over so well - but would be EPICALLY FUNNY!!!

Seriously - I think the trick with the Pride Parades is to NOT irritate the folks who organize (and give out permits to) the parades. Folks in this thread need to realize that there is a political dimension to how people appear when they march. Fun is good - strident is bad.

It is my intuition that "strident" is not welcome as part of any civil rights movement these days - and that's a good thing for everyone. Helps prevent political backlash, for one thing. . .

We should have the build party on the back of the float/truck; invite people from the crowd for build tutorials.

creekside
06-16-2011, 6:34 AM
Nicki, thank you for posting the training listings - very helpful.

http://sfpride.org/?ifr=parade/

Here is the link for monitor training dates. Time is short, I need at least 4 of you to step up so that we can get Don into the parade.

I am going to get up to the city this Saturday for training, but we need a few more bodies to make this happen.

Don's truck will require 4 of us. Considering how much he has done for Gun Rights, he deserves to be able to take his truck and his wife to the parade, so let's make this happen.

I have already sent an e mail about the fees, that is something I can deal with now. What I haven't been able to do is "Clone myself".

Of course if I ever make a "Clone" of myself, cloning will probably become a capital offense.

Nicki

I was a monitor last year and I will be a monitor again this year. A vehicle would be simply awesome.

The parade was a LOT of fun and I strongly encourage anyone to show up. Don't plan on parking anywhere nearby, use public transportation.

This particular San Francisco get together should not be telecommuted!

tboyer
06-16-2011, 3:02 PM
Niki, has paid $50 for the Don's truck to be in the Pride Parade.
It would be sad if that $50 went to waste do to lack of four monitors,
which is only an hour of your time for the training.

http://sfpride.org/?ifr=parade/

Thursday, June 16
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Saturday, June 18
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
11:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 235
Venue: Koret Auditorium, SF Library
Address: 100 Larkin Street, SF

Sunday, June 19
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
2:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 235
Venue: Koret Auditorium, SF Library
Address: 100 Larkin Street, SF

Monday, June 20
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Wednesday, June 22
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Thursday, June 23
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Friday, June 24
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 500
Venue: Bill Graham, Larkin Hall
Address: 99 Grove Street, SF

1st hour of each training is contingent monitor training. The 2nd hour of training is safety monitor training. Volunteers who are safety monitors, and not part of a contingent, are required to attend both hours.

Advance registration is not required. Please arrive on-time to prevent being turned away from a full training class. All training sites are wheelchair accessible.


Here is the link for monitor training dates. Time is short, I need at least 4 of you to step up so that we can get Don into the parade.

I am going to get up to the city this Saturday for training, but we need a few more bodies to make this happen.

Don's truck will require 4 of us. Considering how much he has done for Gun Rights, he deserves to be able to take his truck and his wife to the parade, so let's make this happen.

I have already sent an e mail about the fees, that is something I can deal with now. What I haven't been able to do is "Clone myself".

Of course if I ever make a "Clone" of myself, cloning will probably become a capital offense.

Nicki

creekside
06-18-2011, 1:59 PM
bump -- the trainings are this week and the event is next weekend on Sunday

:79:

nicki
06-18-2011, 2:59 PM
Guys,

The training was 1 hour long and actually was entertaining. They have a sense of humor, better than some paid comedians.

This is critical, we need 4 dedicated monitors for Don's truck which means we need to have at least 6, preferably 7 monitors.

Don jumped on board just this week, so we are scrambling. Don is a CHAMPION of GUN RIGHTS. He is the number two gun attorney in the country,(He said Alan Gura tops him), so I really, really, really want Don and his wife to be able to attend.

Of course when we are waiting to march, you know Don will answer questions you guys may pose on a general basis. Don doesn't post much because of potential implications, here is your opportunity to say hi to him.

Unfortunately this won't happen unless a few of us step up, so please, please, please.

I got the Flags from Southern Ca, I got bullhorns and Don has his truck which means we will be even louder than last year.

If any of you are "broke", but have the time to go up and do the training, I'll cover your bart/parking/toll, reasonable amount of gas. Just send me a PM to let me know. I figure 25 bucks should cover it if needed and I will cover up to 4 of you.

I don't care if we have a few too many monitors, it is like ammo, you can never have too much.

Thanks again guys.

More details will follow.

For those of you who are creative, you can make your own signs. Suggested messages.

Arming Laramie.Com http://www.arminglaramie.com/ This is a documentary that I hope will find funding and will be out next year.

For those of you who haven't seen the trailer, check it out.

Other ideas:

H8ER's, you can suck my Glock.
Self Defense, a human right.
1911, because when critical seconds count, 911 is EPIC FAIL.
Better Dead H8ER's than Dead Gays
Pistols make more noise than Whistles.

Black background with bright Pink, think NEON, would be ideal for signs.

What to wear, my suggestion is you can either go in theme for the pride parade or if you want to stay simple, go with Black T Shirts.

Since this is the "Pink Pistols", I request that you don't wear shirts with logos of other organizations.

We can't bear arms or arm bears, sorry. We can carry holsters and you can put things like bananas or adult toys.

Tom has told me that we have had to pull teeth to get in the parade, so I rather not get distracted with issues of us displaying "arms".

Let's show Southern Ca (Hi Andrew) how it is done.

Nicki

Other

Nicki

GettoPhilosopher
06-18-2011, 3:16 PM
I've said it before, but if you want Pinkie, and someone can take him/her/it up....let me know! ;)

Luieburger
06-18-2011, 4:35 PM
What to wear, my suggestion is you can either go in theme for the pride parade or if you want to stay simple, go with Black T Shirts.

Since this is the "Pink Pistols", I request that you don't wear shirts with logos of other organizations.

We can't bear arms or arm bears, sorry. We can carry holsters and you can put things like bananas or adult toys.

I like the idea of a banana in a holster, and you said that black is a good color to wear to fit in with the black and pink color theme. But would it be overboard to go all mall-ninja and wear my body armor? Kinda like what I have on in the following pic (but without the rifle and pistol and of course with no ammo).

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/23672_887499037758_10724677_48750577_1345993_n.jpg

I'm all in favor of shock factor, but I don't want to give the SF police heart attacks or turn people away from our positive message.

Either way... I think I'm going to put a banana in a holster of one type or another, and make a sign that says "You can't stop a h8er with a banana." Or something like that. I'm still refining that one.

Edit:
I've said it before, but if you want Pinkie, and someone can take him/her/it up....let me know! ;)

Hah... I'd be proud to carry Pinkie... even with the... attachment. Maybe I'd change my sign to say "Plastic toys won't stop bad boys!" And hold Pinkie in one hand with the sign in the other hand. I'll pay the shipping to bring Pinkie up here and promise to send Pinkie back after the parade is over.

tboyer
06-18-2011, 6:03 PM
Bring the body armor if you want, maybe you could
accessories with a pink bandana so you don't look so intimidating,
besides, a pink bandana in gay hanky code means your into dildos.
It will be our way have having "pinkie" up here in spirit, unless of
course if "pinkie" is taken from Getto's cold dead hands,
assuming it's his hands, and makes an appearance up in SF



I like the idea of a banana in a holster, and you said that black is a good color to wear to fit in with the black and pink color theme. But would it be overboard to go all mall-ninja and wear my body armor? Kinda like what I have on in the following pic (but without the rifle and pistol and of course with no ammo).

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/23672_887499037758_10724677_48750577_1345993_n.jpg

I'm all in favor of shock factor, but I don't want to give the SF police heart attacks or turn people away from our positive message.

Either way... I think I'm going to put a banana in a holster of one type or another, and make a sign that says "You can't stop a h8er with a banana." Or something like that. I'm still refining that one.

Edit:


Hah... I'd be proud to carry Pinkie... even with the... attachment. Maybe I'd change my sign to say "Plastic toys won't stop bad boys!" And hold Pinkie in one hand with the sign in the other hand. I'll pay the shipping to bring Pinkie up here and promise to send Pinkie back after the parade is over.

Luieburger
06-18-2011, 6:37 PM
Bring the body armor if you want, maybe you could
accessories with a pink bandana so you don't look so intimidating,
besides, a pink bandana in gay hanky code means your into dildos.

I should probably be careful about what "code" signals I send out... I'm really only here to support gun rights while also showing solidarity for gay rights. I'm just willing to put up with certain shotgun attachments to get the message across to the crowd. I'll just say that my outfit will be interesting. This is what happens when you put a straight guy in a gay parade. :43:


I already contacted GhettoPhilosopher about Pinkie logistics.

GettoPhilosopher
06-18-2011, 6:43 PM
@Luieburger: As long as Nicki/Tboyer give it the go ahead, Pinkie's yours. :)

Andrew, you driving up there? It'd be easier for someone to bring it. No f-ing clue how I'd ship it. 0_o


This is my rifle, this is my gun! This one's for fighting, this one's for fun--and the other one is for killing zombies! (bonus points if you can guess which is which xD)



Mrs. GettoPhilosopher: For the love of Christ, I hope no one *actually* thinks we've ever used that abomination. 0_o

AndrewMendez
06-18-2011, 10:15 PM
Getto, I will NOT be going up north for the parade. Hell, even West Hollywood was a stretch, haha.

I will RSVP now for next year though, for the SF pride parade.

Nicki, we need a phone call sometime in the next few weeks (maybe after the parade), I want to pick your brain a little. Tom may want to conference with us, we really need to jump start this. Next year I want an Army of us marching.


Also guys, the flags were not cheap. Several CalGunners paid good money to see you with them, so hold them high, and blow them bastards away!

Andrew Mendez

nicki
06-18-2011, 11:08 PM
Tom says SF is hysterically anti gun, getting into the SF pride parade according to Tom required pulling personal favors and they actually have a broad no weapons in their parade.

Bright side for West Hollywood was the Green Hornet car they allowed.

Ghetto, love all your rifles, especially your SAIGA 12. Got one myself that I will tweek as soon as my project car stops eating all my spare money.

I was surprised that the trip to and from southern cal both times actually wasn't that bad. More trips will be in the future.

Nicki

tboyer
06-18-2011, 11:33 PM
Well, I have lived in SF from 1982, and I have a feel for
what the climate is in SF, "pinkie" is probably the
only gun like object that would be O.K.
I am the spokes person for the SF Pink Pistols, and
"pinkie" will be fine.




Tom says SF is hysterically anti gun, getting into the SF pride parade according to Tom required pulling personal favors and they actually have a broad no weapons in their parade.

Bright side for West Hollywood was the Green Hornet car they allowed.

Ghetto, love all your rifles, especially your SAIGA 12. Got one myself that I will tweek as soon as my project car stops eating all my spare money.

I was surprised that the trip to and from southern cal both times actually wasn't that bad. More trips will be in the future.

Nicki

nicki
06-19-2011, 12:34 AM
I'm cool with Pinkie since Tom chimmed in.

Just a small favor I will ask, since this is supposed to be a "family friendly" forum, let's leave Pinkie out of picture posts unless we can edit out the special attachment.

On our private facebooks or other media, no problem.

Nicki

Luieburger
06-19-2011, 8:16 AM
I'm cool with Pinkie since Tom chimmed in.

Just a small favor I will ask, since this is supposed to be a "family friendly" forum, let's leave Pinkie out of picture posts unless we can edit out the special attachment.

On our private facebooks or other media, no problem.

Nicki

Kinda late for that ;) but...

Yea I think I have to agree with Nicki here. I was kinda weirded out when I first saw pictures of Pinkie, and so were many other calgunners. Pinkie has a very specific target audience, and he works very well at breaking the ice with that target audience. I'm 100% against mandatory censorship of any kind, but I don't think Pinkie is the best spokesman when trying to win the hearts and minds of anti-gay Calgunners or even those Calgunners who might be on the fence when it comes to gay rights.

I guess if non-censorship is your priority, post away and let the moderators be the judges. I'll be putting a black censor bar in any images that I upload where Pinkie is present, but that's just my preference :)

berto
06-19-2011, 11:48 AM
I'm 100% against mandatory censorship of any kind, but I don't think Pinkie is the best spokesman when trying to win the hearts and minds of anti-gay Calgunners or even those Calgunners who might be on the fence when it comes to gay rights.

I don't march with the Pink Pistols to change the minds of other calgunners on gay rights. I do it to support the Pink Pistols in our fight for 2A rights.

tboyer
06-19-2011, 1:49 PM
I don't march with the Pink Pistols to change the minds of other calgunners on gay rights. I do it to support the Pink Pistols in our fight for 2A rights.

Yes, the purpose of the march is to sell 2A rights to the gay community.
and the way that is marketed is different than the way one would
market the 2A to soccer moms.

Luieburger
06-19-2011, 5:05 PM
I don't march with the Pink Pistols to change the minds of other calgunners on gay rights. I do it to support the Pink Pistols in our fight for 2A rights.

Yes like I said, the march and everything involved with the march has a target audience. I'm just reminding everybody that pictures posted on Calguns have a very different audience, and that I would recommend posting pictures that best serve your cause (whatever that cause might be).

creekside
06-20-2011, 11:59 AM
We need one monitor per wheel to put the truck in the parade.

There is a Contingent Monitor Training tonight in San Francisco at 7 PM.

If you can give up a Sunday morning to march with us, please consider giving up just an additional hour this week to make a huge difference in our visibility and presence.

The next two trainings are Wednesday and Thursday evenings at the same location, also starting at 7 PM.

To quote jdberger, "90% of winning is simply showing up."

The address is 1800 Market Street, cross street Octavia. Google Maps link (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1800+market+street+san+francisco+ca&daddr=1800+Market+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94102&ll=37.772682,-122.421362&spn=0.00865,0.01929&gl=us&z=16).

Parking in the area is very limited; the nearest BART station is Civic Center, which is a 0.8 mile walk, or take the F line or any number of buses.

Directions are here: http://www.sfcenter.org/directions_hours.php

>> Monday, June 20
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 250
Venue: The San Francisco LGBT Community Center
Address: 1800 Market Street, San Francisco

Thank you.

Luieburger
06-20-2011, 12:52 PM
The next two trainings are Wednesday and Thursday evenings at the same location, also starting at 7 PM.


I looked at Nicki's original list and it seems like there is also an option for Friday.

Friday, June 24
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 500
Venue: Bill Graham, Larkin Hall
Address: 99 Grove Street, SF

I live and work in Morgan Hill, so driving up and back on a week day is a bit of a stretch. However, I was planning on staying at my girlfriend's place in Mountain View this weekend and taking the CalTrain up on the 26th anyway. I can take off from work a little early on Friday, go up to Mountain View, and catch the bullet train up to San Fran so that I can attend the training. I assume that monitors are also able to participate (trained participants).

How many monitors do we have so far (excluding me). How many more monitors do we need to get the truck in the parade? How many people are we expecting to have in our contingent?

Edit: Remember, these monitors are mandatory for our contingent to be admitted into the parade. If we don't get the right number of people, we might need to send people away, or continue without the truck.

creekside
06-20-2011, 3:28 PM
I looked at Nicki's original list and it seems like there is also an option for Friday.

Friday, June 24
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 500
Venue: Bill Graham, Larkin Hall
Address: 99 Grove Street, SF

Friday is the training I did last year. It is more convenient to mass transit, and they won't possibly run out of space for the training, but it is literally the last chance before the event to get qualified.

Edit: Remember, these monitors are mandatory for our contingent to be admitted into the parade. If we don't get the right number of people, we might need to send people away, or continue without the truck.

Exactly. This is why this is such a big deal.

Kid Stanislaus
06-20-2011, 6:51 PM
How do the Pink Pistols feel about those of us with CCW permits carrying our guns in the parade?

tboyer
06-20-2011, 7:10 PM
How do the Pink Pistols feel about those of us with CCW permits carrying our guns in the parade?
The Pride Parade has a policy against weapons, all I can state,
is a CCW means that the firearms is carried in a CCW manner

hoffmang
06-20-2011, 8:04 PM
Concealed means concealed and there is no law prohibiting a 12050 license holder from utilizing his license that day. I personally plan to have a training blue in my OWB holster. Other things... other places....

-Gene

creekside
06-21-2011, 1:49 PM
The Pride Parade has a policy against weapons, all I can state,
is a CCW means that the firearms is carried in a CCW manner

I looked through the parade's Web site: http://www.sfpride.org/ and couldn't find the policy.

I'm not planning on carrying, don't worry. Not in the City of San Francisco where local ordinance bans BB, pellet and air guns and a gun-free school zone map is a solid blotch of red.

edsel6502
06-21-2011, 5:37 PM
so now I'm stuck with a bunch of young sweaty guys with large tools, just kind of swinging them around. !

Because its Oak.

Of his entire message... This is what I took away...

Cheers,
/ed

tboyer
06-21-2011, 6:02 PM
I looked through the parade's Web site: http://www.sfpride.org/ and couldn't find the policy.

I'm not planning on carrying, don't worry. Not in the City of San Francisco where local ordinance bans BB, pellet and air guns and a gun-free school zone map is a solid blotch of red.

You are right, it doesn't state a policy, I know I've been asked if we
were going to have firearms, also Niki was asked the same thing for
the LA pride parade.
As for being worried, I'm wasn't worried, because CCW means concealed
as for pellet, BB, and air guns, there is state preemption now

tboyer
06-21-2011, 6:08 PM
SF Pride Parade Line up is on Main St between Mission St and Howard St
We are suppose to start marching around 11:30 am

http://tinyurl.com/6bk8cau

Lex Arma
06-22-2011, 5:07 AM
What is the status on having my truck in the parade? Do we have enough safety monitors?

Luieburger
06-22-2011, 7:36 AM
What is the status on having my truck in the parade? Do we have enough safety monitors?

I contacted Nicki but didn't get a specific number on monitors. If we have 6-7 monitors, we'll be able to take the truck and 25 participants.

Can we get a list of monitors together and the status of their training or when they expect to get training? I'm going up to San Fran on Friday to get training as long as CalTrain doesn't fail me.
*fingers crossed*

nicki
06-22-2011, 12:17 PM
If everyone keeps their commitment, we will be good on monitors, I thank everyone who did this because it will make things happen.

We definitely will have Don Kilmer with us, looks like Gene may also be with us, so this is everyone's opportunity to smooze with our TOP GUNS.

Last year we had 28 people and we were really loud. If we match or exceed that, we will be a presence.

Something I would like everyone to consider. If we can march in San Francisco without getting booed and heckled, it means we can put a "Pro Gun" contingent in any parade in the state.

Too many gun owners are in the "CLOSET", this needs to change because I believe more people will support our positions if someone shares them.

I believe many people who are anti gun are so only because they never heard our side.

Nicki

tonelar
06-22-2011, 12:34 PM
Im supposed to be working standby ems for the pride parade. Wish I could be in two places at once. I'll wave and cheer when I see yall.

jdberger
06-22-2011, 12:58 PM
I believe many people who are anti gun are so only because they never heard our side.

Nicki

Right.

It was easy for San Franciscans to vote for Proposition H because they didn't know who it would affect. They didn't see themselves or their peers as gunnies. They only saw "rednecks", etc.

When you give people the opportunity to identify with you, they're much less likely to vote to abridge your rights.

More than a social event (it is fun) - it's a PR event. Please join the Pink Pistols on their annual march down Market Street where they demonstrate that it's ok to be a gunnie.

hoffmang
06-22-2011, 5:00 PM
I will be there. The only question is whether I can get to the monitor training.

-Gene

ccmc
06-22-2011, 5:40 PM
What is the typical msm take on an event like this? Seems like a conflict of sorts ie msm is generally supportive of gay rights, but antagonistic on 2A issues.

creekside
06-22-2011, 6:48 PM
Did the monitor training tonight (Wed 6/22).

"What's in your night stand?"

hoffmang
06-22-2011, 7:05 PM
What is the typical msm take on an event like this? Seems like a conflict of sorts ie msm is generally supportive of gay rights, but antagonistic on 2A issues.

They tend to ignore because it doesn't fit the storyline :43:

-Gene

tacticalcity
06-22-2011, 7:11 PM
Good for them. I won't be able to make it. Have to work, and live to far away to make it after work. But I'll be there in spirit. Pink Pistols is a great organization. Doing a lot to educate people on the fact that gun owners come in all ethnicities, economic back grounds genders, and sexual orientation. They are tearing down more than one sterotype at a time. It is impressive.

Lex Arma
06-23-2011, 6:47 AM
If everyone keeps their commitment, we will be good on monitors, I thank everyone who did this because it will make things happen.

We definitely will have Don Kilmer with us, looks like Gene may also be with us, so this is everyone's opportunity to smooze with our TOP GUNS.

Last year we had 28 people and we were really loud. If we match or exceed that, we will be a presence.

Something I would like everyone to consider. If we can march in San Francisco without getting booed and heckled, it means we can put a "Pro Gun" contingent in any parade in the state.

Too many gun owners are in the "CLOSET", this needs to change because I believe more people will support our positions if someone shares them.

I believe many people who are anti gun are so only because they never heard our side.

Nicki

OK. I will get the truck washed and me and Mrs. Lex Arma will be there.

Thanks everyone.

Sgt Seahorse
06-23-2011, 7:46 AM
im in to go! any type of specific attire? and meeting place decided?

creekside
06-23-2011, 1:02 PM
im in to go! any type of specific attire? and meeting place decided?

Pride suggests:

-- comfortable shoes
-- long pants (to protect from sunburn)
-- layered clothing, as it may be hot or cold
-- belt pack to carry personal items
-- hat to protect head and face from the sun
-- sunscreen (!!!)
-- water in plastic or metal bottles (no glass)

I respectfully suggest:

-- something you're going to be comfortable walking for several blocks in
-- a sign, banner or placard that thoughtfully shows your support for gun rights
-- a T-shirt as above, but few in the crowd will be close enough to read it
-- a holster or tacti-cool gear if your preferences are in that direction
-- if you're in the mood to be a little daring, something non-firearm to put in that holster, which you can get at the nearest produce section and/or sex shop

The meeting place depends on our contingent number but will be near Beale, Howard and/or Main. The leaders will announce more specifics as we get closer.

Look forward to seeing you there!

nicki
06-23-2011, 2:07 PM
Some of you may want to carry signs, the question of course is what to carry.

First, ideal would be "BLACK BACKGROUND" with "NEON PINK LETTERING".

So, here are some suggestions.

1. Arming Laramie.com http://www.arminglaramie.com/ See link. I made this our number one sign because it is linked to a upcoming documentary.

2. Marry Rights, Carry Rights, Equal Rights!

3. H8ERS, you can suck my GLOCK!

4. When my life is on the line, Colt 45 1911 beats 911 everytime.

5. Whistles make noise, Guns stop H8ER's cold, any questions?

6. I prefer dead H8ERs to dead LBGT victims.

7. Pink Pistols, we "blow away" H8ERs.

8. Self Defense a Human Right, Armed Gays don't get bashed.

9. I refuse to live in FEAR.

10. No Fear Here.


We are going to be a very loud crowd. Our energy will translate to the crowd. After the march we usually are really "amped up".

That is why our last chant at the end of the march is the following:

Pink Pistols need beer.
Pink Pistols need beer.

Nicki

edsel6502
06-23-2011, 9:04 PM
awareness bump.

anyone got a blue springfield XD training pistol?

I forgot to buy one for my shoulder holster than I am going to wear.

Luieburger
06-23-2011, 9:44 PM
awareness bump.

anyone got a blue springfield XD training pistol?

I forgot to buy one for my shoulder holster than I am going to wear.

I was going to drop $47 on a red P226 training pistol, but I ended up going to Goodwill and picking up a $1.27 yellow squirt gun that fits in my holster. I would have liked a training pistol, but I didn't trust anybody to ship one out to me fast enough. If you can't find anything else, Goodwill is always a cheap option.

EDIT:

Also thought I might share some of the work I've put together this evening.

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260065_1953810536386_1576350007_1917600_7267128_n. jpg

I made it way too complex and didn't get the quality paint job that I wanted, but I think it still gets a strong message across. I didn't think to add the triangle until I had finished the letters and I had that extra space, and I realized afterwards that the triangle and the message on the sign go hand in hand very nicely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle A downward pointing pink triangle was used by the nazis to indicate that a prisoner was gay. Guess what else the nazis did early on when they took power... that's right. They enacted strict gun control measures and forced everybody under their control to apply for permission to own a firearm and have a background check. Basically... may-issue firearms ownership.

So yeah...

Rubber toys won't stop bad boys. = You can't stop the nazis without the right to keep and bear arms.

Too bad most people at the parade won't pick up on the connection.

GettoPhilosopher
06-24-2011, 10:11 AM
Too bad most people at the parade won't pick up on the connection.

As long as USPS delivers Pinky today like they're supposed to, I'll bet people will make the connection. :D

creekside
06-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Last chance at monitor training is tonight at 7 PM.

The more contingent monitors we have, the larger our contingent is allowed to be. We need four (4) wheel monitors and two (2) contingent monitors to have 25 persons and a vehicle, plus another two (2) contingent monitors for each additional 25 persons.

"90% of winning is showing up." -- jdberger

Friday, June 24
Contingent Monitor & Safety Training
7:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Training Capacity: 500

Venue: Bill Graham, Larkin Hall
Address: 99 Grove Street, SF (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=99+grove+street+san+francisco+ca&gl=us&z=16)

Easy walking distance from Civic Center BART and MUNI station.

"What's in your night stand?"

Luieburger
06-24-2011, 2:15 PM
Pinkie has landed. I'm afraid to open the box...

Also, I made a 2nd sign since I didn't like the quality of the first one. It's much sharper. I'm making it double sided. The good side facing forward and the ugly side in the back.

Also, I'm packing up and heading north to Mountain View in an hour so I can catch the train to San Fran for training.

hoffmang
06-24-2011, 8:45 PM
I was not able to hit monitor training... Real life and all that.

I will be there on Sunday and am currently riding up in the "parade float."

My Blue Sig P229R w/ Rails will be at my side :)

-Gene

oaklander
06-24-2011, 8:55 PM
Pinkie has landed. I'm afraid to open the box...

Also, I made a 2nd sign since I didn't like the quality of the first one. It's much sharper. I'm making it double sided. The good side facing forward and the ugly side in the back.

Also, I'm packing up and heading north to Mountain View in an hour so I can catch the train to San Fran for training.

Who is pinkie? Tom keeps wanting me to meet him.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

Lex Arma
06-24-2011, 9:37 PM
I was not able to hit monitor training... Real life and all that.

I will be there on Sunday and am currently riding up in the "parade float."

My Blue Sig P229R w/ Rails will be at my side :)

-Gene

I am bringing a monitor with me. My former paralegal's husband took the training and is riding up with us.

Barkoff
06-24-2011, 10:09 PM
Well, I have lived in SF from 1982, and I have a feel for
what the climate is in SF, "pinkie" is probably the
only gun like object that would be O.K.
I am the spokes person for the SF Pink Pistols, and
"pinkie" will be fine.

Well I think that is a mistake, and one commonly made. I would not want to see a dildo displayed in a NRA parade either. Why is the display of a dildo synonymous or a symbol of gay rights? Some straight people also use those devices, but don't display them as some sort of message or symbol. I don't see any good whatsoever, only an incitement of the negatives you wish to break down, it makes no sense at all.

Luieburger
06-24-2011, 11:02 PM
I just got back from SF. Training was very entertaining. I stayed for both sessions, and I might go in early on Sunday morning to help out with the parade before our contingent gets underway. They gave me a nice map of where all the contingents should meet up. Do they have that posted online anywhere? We should probably link to that from here.

One thing that they stressed was that you shouldn't leave the parade by yourself because apparently gay h8ers hang around outside of the parade area looking to assault or even kill people who are vulnerable. They described quite graphically how people have been attacked with bats, guns, knives, boards with nails, and pipes. This hits very close to home for the Pink Pistols and the gun rights movement. It's wrong that people can't even go to a gay pride parade in San Francisco without risking potential attack, and it's equally wrong that many people don't have the right to effectively defend themselves from those attacks. The safety trainers said to carry a whistle. I wanted to say "get a concealed carry license and carry a gun" but I kept my mouth shut.

During the training, one guy came in and announced that the New York senate passed the gay marriage law. The whole room cheered. It was really good to hear about that. Some day maybe those same people will cheer when New York passes constitutional carry. (one can dream)

Other tips:

Wear sunscreen
Wear comfy shoes (you can expect to be standing a lot before our contingent gets full steam down Market Street)
Wear a hat to keep the sun off


Yep... That's all I've got to report. I've got all of my stuff ready and I'm eagerly looking forward to Sunday.

ivanimal
06-24-2011, 11:50 PM
I should be there.

nicki
06-25-2011, 1:46 AM
Parade Contingent Application Number # 7850
Line-Up Number: 114
Assembly Area Location: H - Main between Mission & Howard
Time to Have Vehicle/Representative in Assembly Area: 9:30 AM
Contingent Should Be in Place by: 10:00 AM
Contingent size 26 to 50

You Ordered:
Parade Contingent
1 X Number of Basic Trucks

I will be up early, have the flags, bullhorns, making some signs.
Realistically alot of hanging around.
Parade actually kicks off 10:30am.

I am going to ask everyone please try to get to the parade no later than 11am. I want us to "SHOCK and AWE" San Fransciso

Nicki

nicki
06-25-2011, 8:36 PM
Guys,

I will arrive around 9:30am, have to do setup. My cell is 559 417 3275
Thanks again

Nicki

edsel6502
06-25-2011, 10:14 PM
I'm leaving Sunnyvale for the Milbrae station at 8am. Should be at the staging area by 10am.

If I am not mistaken. The BART station to get off is Embarcedero.

hoffmang
06-25-2011, 10:29 PM
It's going to be epic (as usual!)

-Gene

Luieburger
06-25-2011, 10:37 PM
I'm leaving Sunnyvale for the Milbrae station at 8am. Should be at the staging area by 10am.

If I am not mistaken. The BART station to get off is Embarcedero.

I'll be getting on the CalTrain in Mountain View and taking the BART as well. If you see a crazy guy dressed in black with a square shaped black trash bag and a long wooden stick in his backpack... say hello. :D

CavTrooper
06-26-2011, 7:45 AM
Good luck all. Looking forward to the AAR.

edsel6502
06-26-2011, 7:46 AM
On BART. Haven't been tasered or worse yet. Eyecandy has begun ;)

Shoot-it
06-26-2011, 9:51 AM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

putput
06-26-2011, 9:59 AM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

There's half naked womens her too. You're missing out.

edsel6502
06-26-2011, 10:47 AM
Why is it a disgrace. Only you deserve the right to self defense?

Btw. Naked womens galore.

GettoPhilosopher
06-26-2011, 10:48 AM
Why is it a disgrace. Only you deserve the right to self defense?

Btw. Naked womens galore.

Mrs. GettoPhilosopher says pics or GTFO. ^_^

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

Stonewalker
06-26-2011, 10:57 AM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

Whomp-whomp.

We are a gun rights organization, nothing else, check your baggage at the door. This will advance gun rights, so we are doing it.

Shoot-it
06-26-2011, 11:01 AM
Why is it a disgrace. Only you deserve the right to self defense?

Btw. Naked womens galore.
everyone has the right to self defense .

HowardW56
06-26-2011, 11:21 AM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

There will be thousands of LGBT voters in the crowds... Do you know a better way to connect with a huge group of disenfranchised voters? They also have the right to self defense.

I support their right to be armed, I wouldn't join in a parade, but I won't condemn those who do...

While I understand that their predisposition or lifestyle may offend you, why would you condemn the Calguns Foundation for doing whatever it takes to garner more support for the 2nd Amendment and individual firearm rights in California? A large number of the participants are NRA and SAF members, are you going to condemn those organizations too?

Would you not support a candidate because they communicate with a group of people you donít approve of? After all, itís just politics and they need the votes donít they?

berto
06-26-2011, 11:47 AM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

I think it's a disgrace that you can't distinguish between CGN, whatever federation you've come up with in your head, and a group of people who post here and joined together in an effort to spread a pro-2A message to a crowd that is reflexively but unreasonably anti-2A. This is nothing more than outreach to a group that has a very real need for self defense.

Sorry I couldn't make it today, hope y'all have fun.

OnTheTrail
06-26-2011, 11:52 AM
Here is a live stream.. http://sfpridelive.com/pages/how-to-watch.html

It's started a couple hours ago. i wonder what place in line they are.

CalBear
06-26-2011, 12:16 PM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.
It's a single-issue organization. The eventual goal is for those similar to you AND those different from you to agree on one thing -- that the right to self defense and thus to bear arms is important for all people. If we exclude certain groups from gun rights because they have different lifestyles or beliefs on other issues, we will cement ourselves back into an era of alienating and losing a HUGE block of Americans from gun rights support, simply because we'll cast gun rights as a right-wing philosophy, rather than a fundamental American belief.

OnTheTrail
06-26-2011, 12:26 PM
Pinks pistols are up!!!!

They were on for about 15 seconds.

CavTrooper
06-26-2011, 2:24 PM
No updates?

Maybe the San Fransiscans ate them?

putput
06-26-2011, 2:47 PM
No updates?

Maybe the San Fransiscans ate them?

Beer. Burp.

MrEd
06-26-2011, 4:44 PM
I think that everyone has the right to defend themselves , the Pink Pistol is an organisation that advocates that fact to a segment of the community otherwhise left out of the debate .
I support the rights of ALL people to be armed , no matter what their political or sexual orientation is .
I refuse to judge anyone by who they love , this is a free country .
You might be offended by their lifestyle , you might not like their orientation , however judging the calguns "federation" for suporting a group that actively advances your and my right to keep and bear arms just because they happen to subscribe to the rainbow lifestyle is counter ptroductive as it divides us when we should unite .
Allowing the LGBT community to be treated as second class citizens is not what we should be about , after all the pledge of allegiance does say : " with liberty and justice for ALL " .

Freedoom
06-26-2011, 4:55 PM
Let me try this again, last time my post was deleted from this topic and my wasn't even close to being like Shoot-It's.

Show me the law where LGBT are not allowed to own firearms. Hint you can't. New argument please.

Eljay
06-26-2011, 5:05 PM
Just to put this in blunt, practical terms.

1. Gays should have even a little more interest in concealed carry than the general population. Can you imagine if even a couple of percent of gay bashings (assault on apparently easy marks by gangs) ended up with a couple of the bashers getting shot? It would make things a lot easier for the whole community. If we can get them thinking in those terms it's good for them and it's good for the larger 2nd amendment community since they're also voters. Even if they never carry themselves, just knowing there's a legitimate reason to want to carry helps.
2. Gays make great test cases. Get some liberal judge deciding if law abiding people in the San Francisco projects should have firearms and his knee jerk reaction might be that they're really criminals or rednecks or something and who cares. If it's an elderly gay, that makes them wake up a bit and perhaps actually think about the merits of the case a bit. (This was a real case, by the way).

There's a lot of common cause between California gun owners and even the non-gun owning gay community.

CalBear
06-26-2011, 5:27 PM
Let me try this again, last time my post was deleted from this topic and my wasn't even close to being like Shoot-It's.

Show me the law where LGBT are not allowed to own firearms. Hint you can't. New argument please.
It's really just a good group to reach out to. Seeing gay gun advocates goes a long way toward destroying that classic "conservative white redneck" image of gun owners so many people have in a place like SF. LGBT are a really good PR group when it comes to reaching out to liberals. For some, if they see a gun group, they might boo, but if it's a LGBT group as well, their head is more likely to explode.

The recent association of firearms with Republicans has been an enormous factor in creating the hostile environment. People in this area are pretty likely to oppose anything a Republican supports. We want to normalize firearms so they stop being such a political issue, and become more of a civil right.

This type of outreach is designed to show that gun owners extend beyond the typical stereotypes. Maybe then, San Franciscans will put some thought into self defense and firearm ownership, instead of simply dismissing it as a redneck pastime.

Plus, I'd say LGBT people have to deal with more threat of violence than your average person. I think that threat is good reason for them to employ self defense.

Swiss
06-26-2011, 5:38 PM
I'm proud of you guys for sticking up for EVERYONE'S 2A rights

G60
06-26-2011, 5:43 PM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

You probably never have in the first place, and I doubt you ever would anyways, involvement in the parade notwithstanding.

Just keep complaining from the sidelines while everyone else does work for you.

Barkoff
06-26-2011, 5:49 PM
Why is it a disgrace. Only you deserve the right to self defense?

Btw. Naked womens galore.

Absolutely not, everyone should be reserved that right. However it could also be said that some who march in that parade are a disgrace to gays.

Now for my disclaimer; I only offer an opinion formed by the impressions of the parade the media has left me with, I have never attended. Now if the lewdness were removed from said parade, I would be happy to attend, why must gay rights and lewdness go hand in hand?

Luieburger
06-26-2011, 6:00 PM
We won a lot of points from the crowd. I think people understood our message really well. For those who are confused as to why we are doing this, why shouldn't 2nd Amendment be part of one of the biggest parades in California?

TKM
06-26-2011, 6:17 PM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

You fool. Tell you what, I'll donate in your name.



Unless you have some reason to want homosexuals unarmed and defenseless, you should be proud of those who choose to arm and defend themselves and their loved ones.

As always, I am proud of each and every one of you who choose to do what is right by you and yours.



CGN Contributor - Lifetime Subscription
Item #: e55317a232b9bb70427986869ba9da1a

Thanks to Shoot-It.

Barkoff
06-26-2011, 6:26 PM
We won a lot of points from the crowd. I think people understood our message really well. For those who are confused as to why we are doing this, why shouldn't 2nd Amendment be part of one of the biggest parades in California?

Well I think to answer that, one need ask why the lewdness, why is that included in one of the biggest parades in the state? To march with it, condones it. Some are down with the fight to protect the 2nd, some of those are also down for the protections for gay people and against persecution, but some draw the line at condoning public lewd behavior. IMHO it's bad representation for gays and proponents to the 2nd.

Freedoom
06-26-2011, 6:29 PM
It's really just a good group to reach out to. Seeing gay gun advocates goes a long way toward destroying that classic "conservative white redneck" image of gun owners so many people have in a place like SF. LGBT are a really good PR group when it comes to reaching out to liberals. For some, if they see a gun group, they might boo, but if it's a LGBT group as well, their head is more likely to explode.

The recent association of firearms with Republicans has been an enormous factor in creating the hostile environment. People in this area are pretty likely to oppose anything a Republican supports. We want to normalize firearms so they stop being such a political issue, and become more of a civil right.

This type of outreach is designed to show that gun owners extend beyond the typical stereotypes. Maybe then, San Franciscans will put some thought into self defense and firearm ownership, instead of simply dismissing it as a redneck pastime.

Plus, I'd say LGBT people have to deal with more threat of violence than your average person. I think that threat is good reason for them to employ self defense.

So I'm supposed to be accepting of people think I'm just a redneck for owning a gun and I'm the bad guy? I'm the bad guy practicing both 1st and 2nd amendment and gays don't like that, yeah I'll pass.

Women are a much better group due to the fact they account for more of the populace and rape is a bigger problem then fantasy hate crimes against LGBT.

TKM
06-26-2011, 6:38 PM
So I'm supposed to be accepting of people think I'm just a redneck for owning a gun and I'm the bad guy? I'm the bad guy practicing both 1st and 2nd amendment and gays don't like that, yeah I'll pass.

Women are a much better group due to the fact they account for more of the populace and rape is a bigger problem then fantasy hate crimes against LGBT.


Aside from your problems with spelling and grammar. You raise no good points.

Are you against gay people owning firearms and potentially becoming gay rednecks? I already know gay rednecks. So do you, you just don't know it.

You are already both practicing the 1st Amendment, why not the 2nd as well?

Barkoff
06-26-2011, 6:45 PM
Aside from your spelling and grammar you raise no good points.

Are you against gay people owning firearms and potentially becoming gay rednecks? I already know gay rednecks. So do you, you just don't know it.

You are already both practicing the 1st Amendment, why not the 2nd as well?


I might have missed it, if so please point it out, but I don't think anyone on this thread has expressed that gays are not deserving of their rights to bear arms. I don't think anyone has said anything negative toward the Pink Pistols, unless they are some of those who act in a lewd manner and I didn't know it. Let's try not to blur the lines of what is being discussed.

Stonewalker
06-26-2011, 7:45 PM
So I'm supposed to be accepting of people think I'm just a redneck for owning a gun and I'm the bad guy? I'm the bad guy practicing both 1st and 2nd amendment and gays don't like that, yeah I'll pass.

Women are a much better group due to the fact they account for more of the populace and rape is a bigger problem then fantasy hate crimes against LGBT.

I can't believe anyone even has to point this out, but the gay community at large would be an extremely valuable ally in normalizing firearms. This is has already been said many times in this thread even. Getting butt-hurt about somebody's attitude toward gun-owners isn't helping anybody. Those people are potential friends, all anti-gunners are. "Being into guns" is for everybody. Point that out to anti-gunners. Pink Pistols should be enough to explode some heads and change some misconceptions.

edsel6502
06-26-2011, 8:04 PM
Our contingent was small.

But we represented and that is what matters.

The crowd responded well to our message of

"Armed gays, don't get bashed"
"No fear here"
"Marriage license, Carry License"
"Self defense, a Human right"

Signs that said

"A rubber toy won't stop the bad boys"
"Don't thread on me" in rainbow

We were between "Straights for Gay Rights" and "BART Pride".

SfGR have been marching since 1977. These folks were very surprised that about what we do. I think I broke some stereotypes with them when they found out I was a NRA member. I was introduced to the rest of their group as the "NRA guy".

Did you know BART has a BART-mobile?

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg736/scaled.php?tn=0&server=736&filename=czyj.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

All in all it was a good day. And a message in regards to 2A was sent and stereotypes were broken. Every time we show up to one of these we reinforce that message and break more stereotypes.

The rest of the folks there can add pics and video.

Cheers,
/ed

Stonewalker
06-26-2011, 8:17 PM
Thanks for the report! I can't wait to see pictures of the truck and hear more stories!

edsel6502
06-26-2011, 8:21 PM
http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg741/scaled.php?tn=0&server=741&filename=7k1e.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Sign Pic (http://twitpic.com/5hhxer)

Truck Pic (http://twitpic.com/5hi00y)

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264522_10150232578218122_591893121_7387613_5759330 _n.jpg

Sputnik
06-26-2011, 8:36 PM
Gun rights, gay rights, human rights...Whats the difference? They're ALL important and I am happy and proud that we are able to set aside some differences in order to connect with some folks that might not get the pro-gun message otherwise. Cheers to all who make the effort to reach out.

bubbagump
06-26-2011, 9:22 PM
VERY NICE!

CalBear
06-26-2011, 10:12 PM
So I'm supposed to be accepting of people think I'm just a redneck for owning a gun and I'm the bad guy? I'm the bad guy practicing both 1st and 2nd amendment and gays don't like that, yeah I'll pass.

Women are a much better group due to the fact they account for more of the populace and rape is a bigger problem then fantasy hate crimes against LGBT.
All hearts and minds matter in the fight we're fighting. Women are extremely important in spreading gun rights, but that doesn't mean they're the only group. Let us not repeat the mistakes of the past by alienating huge groups from gun rights. It is in our best interest to normalize firearms, and part of that is making folks realize LOTS of different types of people own guns.

berto
06-26-2011, 10:21 PM
So I'm supposed to be accepting of people think I'm just a redneck for owning a gun and I'm the bad guy? I'm the bad guy practicing both 1st and 2nd amendment and gays don't like that, yeah I'll pass.

Women are a much better group due to the fact they account for more of the populace and rape is a bigger problem then fantasy hate crimes against LGBT.

Part of the reason we show up to support the Pink Pistols is to show that gun owners aren't just rednecks. See edsel's comment above re: him being introduced as the "NRA guy". That's how we start to change minds and destroy stereotypes. As long as 2A remains a right/left issue we lose. We need to move our fight to a right/wrong civil rights issue. Taking our message to non-traditional audiences helps us break down barriers and expand our base.

Women are a great target audience. There were many women at Pride. Win-win for us.

hoffmang
06-26-2011, 10:36 PM
Most of CGF's highest profile lead plaintiffs have been gay. The reason is to challenge stereotypes. Gay people are still at a perceived higher risk of being beaten for who they are than white male rednecks are.

If gun rights remains a right only issue it is doomed.

-Gene

CABilly
06-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Well I think to answer that, one need ask why the lewdness, why is that included in one of the biggest parades in the state? To march with it, condones it. Some are down with the fight to protect the 2nd, some of those are also down for the protections for gay people and against persecution, but some draw the line at condoning public lewd behavior. IMHO it's bad representation for gays and proponents to the 2nd.

Part of the character and tradition of SF is publicly showing more of the wild side of humanity. What's lewd to you is good fun for others. Think of the Pink Pistols march as a sort of 2A Trojan horse into one of the most anti-gun city's largest events.

You don't have to support their lifestyle, but part of building bridges and winning minds is putting aside each other's differences and working toward common goals.

Just think, if it weren't for the 2A, gun rights in CA would probably have fallen victim to a Prop. 8-style vote decades ago.

nicki
06-26-2011, 11:21 PM
First,

Lets me thank everyone who came today, we had a great time. Thank you.

Second,

This was a "Pink Pistol" event, the fees to enter the parade were paid my ME, not the "Calguns foundation".

The "Flags" wound up being a donation directly from people on this "forum" for the "southern parades".

Don Kilmer drove up with his "Truck" at his "expense".

Like it or not, San Francisco is the "Political Power" center in this state and right now, "San Francisco" is wrong on gun rights.

Like it or not, the "Democrat party" controls this state and it will stay that way because the "Republican party" at this time can't win any statewide races.

There are large segements of the population who are anti gun only because no one on our side has taken the time to reach out to them.

The leaders of Calguns are bold, they are willing to go into the "belly of the beast".

To the "Naysayers", all I can say is what do you find some large public events that we can partake in that will allow us to reach people outside our "Choir" and take the intiative and do the legwork to get us in the event.

To me, "Gun Rights" trump everything. Right now we are getting to the point to where we can talk with people who are "politically left" rather than shouting at each other.

Something to consider, for every person we get on the Political Left, we probably pick up by default someone in the political middle.

Next year the big civil right issue in San Francisco will be the legalization of marijuana. Of course the argument will be that "Prohibition" doesn't work.

Well, if we can start shifting the mindset that "Prohibition of guns" doesn't work either if we have a presence in San Francisco.

Nicki

ivanimal
06-26-2011, 11:23 PM
Sorry I was not well enough to attend. I am glad you had a good showing.

CalBear
06-26-2011, 11:45 PM
SfGR have been marching since 1977. These folks were very surprised that about what we do. I think I broke some stereotypes with them when they found out I was a NRA member. I was introduced to the rest of their group as the "NRA guy".

All in all it was a good day. And a message in regards to 2A was sent and stereotypes were broken. Every time we show up to one of these we reinforce that message and break more stereotypes.
Nice. This is exactly what I was talking about. The goal of events like this really is to break stereotypes. As I said, lots in the more liberal community end up anti-gun by default, because guns are largely viewed as a right-wing pastime. It's not like most people have read all the research, or have truly well developed views on the gun issue. Their hearts and minds are winnable. For people who saw Pink Pistols at the parade today, they now have a more positive experience relating to firearms, and that's great.

Liberty1
06-27-2011, 12:45 AM
Is there any outfit Don's vest does not go with? Lol!

CavTrooper
06-27-2011, 1:00 AM
Even though I completely disagree with the gay lifestyle and think theres a better way to reach people than swinging dildos at them, I nrespect what yall are doing and hope to see you in every parade, march and rally in California.

PS: Nice Calguns.net polo, looks sharp.

ErikTheRed
06-27-2011, 1:01 AM
Wow, some really obtuse replies here. Being against the gay parade does not equal being against gays, nor does an objection to CGF's involvement equal non-support of RKBA. Shame on you if you think it does. I do not support the gay parade and I do not support CGF's participation in it--- that DOES NOT MEAN I don't support "gay rights", but I refuse to support any intentional public display of lewdness and immorality. I have moral standards, and I don't feel the SF gay pride parade comes close to meeting a single one of those standards, and to be quite clear, the "gay pride" issue has nothing to do with that opinion. Nudity, graphic displays of sexual activity, sex toys, crude and perverse language, defamation of God, etc etc etc is not anything I condone or support from ANY group, and I refuse to support ANY group that would engage in such depravity. Its a shame, IMO, that the "gay rights" movement feels as though this is the sort of public display that best represents their fight for equality. Removing the gay rights aspect completely, this is not the sort behavior that those who seek equal treatment, both socially and under the law, should be engaging in in order to earn respect from the greater cross-section of America. I might be far more willing to respect their efforts if their efforts weren't so enamored with offensive public displays of debauchery. While I won't withhold future donations to CGF or dismiss myself from future RKBA efforts sponsored by CGF, I will state that I strongly disagree with CGF's involvement with this parade regardless of the intent.

Of course, this is only my opinion, but I'm quite certain its an opinion that is shared by many who frequent this forum. Going forward, please try to refrain from posting comments that suggest or assert that anyone who opposes the pride parade must also oppose gay rights. IMO, one has very little to do with the other. If this were a straight white male pride parade, (which I would find equally unnecessary), I would demand the same modesty and apply the same moral standard if they truely desire to earn support for the cause. Again, respect should be earned, not demanded from those who abhor the activities, demonstrations, and displays that accompany this parade. The parade is such a blatent representation of so many things that I oppose, the claimed message of "gay rights" is completely lost in the horribly offensive delivery.

Gray Peterson
06-27-2011, 1:07 AM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

Uh, it's San Francisco. San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, LA/WeHo, all of these Pride parades are particularly reflecting of the local urban environment.

I was just at Seattle Pride today. Is it as outlandish as San Francisco's? Just about.

Numerous groups march in Pride, including churches and politicians. Numerous business such as Wells Fargo, BofA, Google, Microsoft, and others sent their volunteered employees from their LGBT affinity groups to the parades.

Your determination that "I can't believe you'd march with people with half naked men", you might as well stop using Google, Bing, Yahoo, and practically every other SF Bay area based search engine as a result (Google, Yahoo, Bing is up here in Seattle with Microsoft).

The fact that you would judge that CalGuns Foundation itself (when individual board members have the freedom of assembly just like you and I do), when you continue to use the internet in general and making the companies that march in the Pride parades money sounds like double-standard :icon_bs:.

I urge that if anyone donates in response to this outrageous behavior by Mr. "Shoot-It", I suggest a yearly subscription to CGN, and a general donation to the CalGuns Foundation, and make it in honor of "Shoot-It".

Gray Peterson
06-27-2011, 1:12 AM
While I won't withhold future donations to CGF or dismiss myself from future RKBA efforts sponsored by CGF, I will state that I strongly disagree with CGF's involvement with this parade regardless of the intent.

This isn't a CGF sponsored event. This is Pink Pistols sponsored event with individual board members from CGF and a few of the C3 volunteers here on CGN walking in the parade with the Pink Pistols contingent.

Corporation != Individual

oaklander
06-27-2011, 1:36 AM
LOL, I support the CGF Federation precisely BECAUSE of the half-naked men!!!

Here's an EPIC photo. It contains:

1) a (very sweaty) half-naked man
2) a Prius
3) a helicopter
4) an iPad
5) a long wallet chain

:eek:

It was taken at an AK "build party." This party took place in Kings County. You might not know why that is significant (http://bit.ly/kmABVg), but we can educate you, if required. . .

http://bit.ly/lKHawr

Yes, this means nothing to you. And that is the point. Think about what I just said.

I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

ivanimal
06-27-2011, 1:55 AM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.

Keep your small minded comments to yourself. We are freedom loving people that support the right to individual self defense. If you cant see that its because your eyes are closed. Please don't speak for others, I am sure they would be embarrassed. Your message is devoid of any deep thought.

oaklander
06-27-2011, 2:25 AM
Well said Ivan. The gun rights movement in California is BIG TENT, and there's room for everyone. Even a tatted-up Harley riding lawyer with an iPad who likes Pruises and AKM's.

:D

One thing that we have discovered (and this is the result of actual research and experience), is THIS:

People who post extremely negative and/or "hate-filled" things on this forum tend to be somewhat like THIS:

1) they NEVER show up for "grassroots" gun rights events
2) they rarely support Calguns (via gun show booths, etc.)
3) they may send money to various gun groups - BUT - they rarely do more than that
4) they rarely interact in a positive manner within their own communities
5) they tend to be loners, and/or have a pattern of negative interactions on this form and/or other forums
6) they tend to have an overly simplistic and black/white view of reality
7) they tend to post about various sad negative events in their own lives, and they tend to blame others for these events.

These people comprise less than one percent of all gun owners in the state, but they tend to be extremely "vocal" on this and other forums. The thing to remember is that such people are essentially "aberrations." If they feel excluded from the grassroots, it is due to them self-excluding. We want EVERYONE to join us, and we ask very little. BUT ONE THING WE DO NOT TOLERATE IS HATE. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but for the sake of keeping our coalition strong (like it is right now), we frown on those folks who use the gun rights movement as a sounding board for their own personal opinions on outside issues. In the past, the gun rights movement was contaminated with outside issues. Small and vocal sub-groups essentially painted all of us as being intolerant. This is simply not a reflection of reality.

We tolerate just about everything. We embrace just about everyone. But hate has no place here. It has no place anywhere.

Keep your small minded comments to yourself. We are freedom loving people that support the right to individual self defense. If you cant see that its because your eyes are closed. Please don't speak for others, I am sure they would be embarrassed. Your message is devoid of any deep thought.

Lex Arma
06-27-2011, 5:21 AM
Wow, some really obtuse replies here. Being against the gay parade does not equal being against gays, nor does an objection to CGF's involvement equal non-support of RKBA. Shame on you if you think it does. I do not support the gay parade and I do not support CGF's participation in it--- that DOES NOT MEAN I don't support "gay rights", but I refuse to support any intentional public display of lewdness and immorality. I have moral standards, and I don't feel the SF gay pride parade comes close to meeting a single one of those standards, and to be quite clear, the "gay pride" issue has nothing to do with that opinion. Nudity, graphic displays of sexual activity, sex toys, crude and pIerverse language, defamation of God, etc etc etc is not anything I condone or support from ANY group, and I refuse to support ANY group that would engage in such depravity. Its a shame, IMO, that the "gay rights" movement feels as though this is the sort of public display that best represents their fight for equality. Removing the gay rights aspect completely, this is not the sort behavior that those who seek equal treatment, both socially and under the law, should be engaging in in order to earn respect from the greater cross-section of America. I might be far more willing to respect their efforts if their efforts weren't so enamored with offensive public displays of debauchery. While I won't withhold future donations to CGF or dismiss myself from future RKBA efforts sponsored by CGF, I will state that I strongly disagree with CGF's involvement with this parade regardless of the intent.

Of course, this is only my opinion, but I'm quite certain its an opinion that is shared by many who frequent this forum. Going forward, please try to refrain from posting comments that suggest or assert that anyone who opposes the pride parade must also oppose gay rights. IMO, one has very little to do with the other. If this were a straight white male pride parade, (which I would find equally unnecessary), I would demand the same modesty and apply the same moral standard if they truely desire to earn support for the cause. Again, respect should be earned, not demanded from those who abhor the activities, demonstrations, and displays that accompany this parade. The parade is such a blatent representation of so many things that I oppose, the claimed message of "gay rights" is completely lost in the horribly offensive delivery.

Erik's point is NOT outside the bounds of reason. I have gay friends who don't attend the event for the same reasons. And if asked, I would prefer that the event be more about rights and less about sexuality. But at the same time, I am not personally offended by nudity.

And consider this, I would (and have) marched in support of our military, even if/when I object to a particular war. Dead women and children are part of the obscenity of war. Conscription was equally offensive, glad it's gone. The point is, I don't necessarily endorse EVERY consequence of my support for our men/women in uniform, just as I don't embrace all the behavior at the Pride Parade.

I know why I'm there. Don't much care why anybody else is there, or what they do - as long as they keep their hands off of me and out of my pockets.

Barkoff
06-27-2011, 5:37 AM
First, thank you to Erik the Red for eloquently opining my thoughts better than I did myself.

What I guess I am hearing is that many CG members are not interested or concerned in regards to the message or the conduct the Gay Pride Parade puts forth. I guess I failed to understand the the Calguns community is strictly a lobbyist group concerned with only special interest, NOT that I consider the 2nd "special interest". It seems that we don't wish to maintain the same standards we hold our own politicians to, that being holding them accountable of where and who they put forth or accept influence.

I completely understand the motive, and now I understand the modus operandi. However I never believed I would see the day when objecting to a specific event would be met with accusations of shallow thinking, or accusal of an effort at denying others Constitutional rights, I believed those tactics reserved for the liberal community.

My opinion is either the minority here, or part of the silent majority, however I now understand Calguns to be strictly a lobbyist group with no concerns of how and where they put forth their support, so long as the end justify the means.

My last thought on the subject would be to ask the Pink Pistols group. I would ask in addition to putting forth a pro-gun philosophy in the Gay community, you also maintain and put forth a pro-dignity philosophy for the gay community. What the Gay Parade does is hurt the Gay rights movement far more than it helps. Repulsive behavior or condoning it, does not help the cause. If you truly believe this is parade is indicative of the Gay community, and the only way to reach the SF Gay community, well, then carry on and I wish you luck.

Shoot-it
06-27-2011, 7:08 AM
I retract the donation part of my statement I was just mad I quess.
CGN does fight for our gun rights here in Ca.

Luieburger
06-27-2011, 7:58 AM
I just found this. We're at the 7:00 mark. This link should take you directly to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1USxHOEX1U&t=7m0s

GettoPhilosopher
06-27-2011, 8:12 AM
Conversations like these can never really end well, because we're debating ridiculously subjective concepts. I come from an evangelical christian background, I get the whole "objective moral standards" gig. It's what I was raised with. But even C.S. Lewis says concepts like "modesty" are 100% subjective. It'd be completely modest for me, in some places on this planet, to wear nothing but a loincloth (or go buck naked). It'd be 100% modest for my wife, in some places on this earth, to wear nothing but a loincloth (or go buck naked). In other places on this planet, the jeans and short-sleeved collared shirt I'm wearing right now would be too tight and showing too much skin, i.e. immodest.

Now, it's hard because we have two contexts colliding...but you've gotta realize that what you view as "obscene", "immodest", and "undignified" would be so in your homes, communities, and churches....but is NOT on the streets of San Francisco. It's a different culture, a different context, and the rules are different. They ARE different, not "those wackos think the rules are different, but that's because they're godless heathens". In some ways, their culture is more open sexually, and in some ways they're trying to be in-your-face so that people don't just write them off. There's obviously room to debate the efficacy of that strategy, and I'm not saying you have to like it....but I have trouble accepting a "it offends some of us, so all of you should cut that sexual **** out" argument from the same people that quite often flaunt our gun ownership to the public, even when it--occasionally--offends them. (flamboyantly pro-2A tshirts and bumper stickers, UOC, etc).

It's a volunteer event. No one is pointing Pinky at your head and forcing you to go. But I think you can all see why the drive-by "Gays are an abomination to God, you guys should cut that crap out" and "pride parades are disgustingly immodest, I can't support them" comments are unhelpful and out of place, just like I can read a UOC thread without feeling the need to threadcrap my disagreement with them. I don't support UOC groups, most of you know that. I don't need to advertise that (extensively) in every UOC-friendly thread on calguns. So why do some people feel the need to advertise their non-support of gays and/OR pride parades in every related thread? (keystrll, I'm NOT being a bigot and saying there's no room for that point of view. I'm merely pointing out that you can have that POV and not threadcrap. ;) )


(For the record, I'm not talking about people like CavTrooper. His comments seemed short and to the point, and were directly relevant to his post.)

jdberger
06-27-2011, 9:14 AM
First, thank you to Erik the Red for eloquently opining my thoughts better than I did myself.

What I guess I am hearing is that many CG members are not interested or concerned in regards to the message or the conduct the Gay Pride Parade puts forth. I guess I failed to understand the the Calguns community is strictly a lobbyist group concerned with only special interest, NOT that I consider the 2nd "special interest". It seems that we don't wish to maintain the same standards we hold our own politicians to, that being holding them accountable of where and who they put forth or accept influence.

I completely understand the motive, and now I understand the modus operandi. However I never believed I would see the day when objecting to a specific event would be met with accusations of shallow thinking, or accusal of an effort at denying others Constitutional rights, I believed those tactics reserved for the liberal community.

My opinion is either the minority here, or part of the silent majority, however I now understand Calguns to be strictly a lobbyist group with no concerns of how and where they put forth their support, so long as the end justify the means.

My last thought on the subject would be to ask the Pink Pistols group. I would ask in addition to putting forth a pro-gun philosophy in the Gay community, you also maintain and put forth a pro-dignity philosophy for the gay community. What the Gay Parade does is hurt the Gay rights movement far more than it helps. Repulsive behavior or condoning it, does not help the cause. If you truly believe this is parade is indicative of the Gay community, and the only way to reach the SF Gay community, well, then carry on and I wish you luck.

Pride hurts the gay community just about as much as Knob Creek (http://www.knobcreekrange.com/machine_gun_shoot.html) hurts the gun community.

Both events are "insider" expressions of community pride and celebration that are open to outsiders - who may misinterpret (or be offended by) what they see. Both have participants who fiercly defend their rights to express themselves freely.

Lex Arma
06-27-2011, 9:49 AM
Pride hurts the gay community just about as much as Knob Creek (http://www.knobcreekrange.com/machine_gun_shoot.html) hurts the gun community.

Both events are "insider" expressions of community pride and celebration that are open to outsiders - who may misinterpret (or be offended by) what they see. Both have participants who fiercly defend their rights to express themselves freely.

^^^^^^ What he said!

oaklander
06-27-2011, 10:25 AM
I find myself agreeing with Lex and GP.

I don't think it's IRRATIONAL to not like "our" participation in certain events. I would be the LAST person to even WANT us to have an "orthodox" view on issues is me. I absolutely hate the concept of "agree with us, or you are a dummy." That is just wrong.

However, part of the issue is that some people (like Erik), are expressing their views in a rational way - BUT others appear to just be filled with a kind of amorphous hate. This is very hard to explain in words, but from what I see and know - our movement works best when we focus on end goals, and set aside outside issues.

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

wash
06-27-2011, 10:35 AM
Sorry I couldn't make it, I had a schedule conflict.

I did watch some of the coverage but I missed the Pink Pistols group.

After seeing the floats, vehicles and the weather, it makes me want to ask a friend of mine if I can borrow his Pinzgauer for next year. It's an Austrian personel carrier made by Steyr Damlier Puch with a rag top, a windshiled that folds down and a transfer case with really really slow forward gears (perfect for parading). He's got a 1 1/2 ton U.S. military trailer too.

Standing room in the back might be 8-10 people, plus driver and passenger, the trailer would hold another 8-10. There is even a rack made to hold two STG-58 FALs.

Any way, I hope you all had a good time and converted some of the far-far left to our cause.

Saigon1965
06-27-2011, 10:54 AM
We need to think outside the box -

I retract the donation part of my statement I was just mad I quess.
CGN does fight for our gun rights here in Ca.

Barkoff
06-27-2011, 12:46 PM
Now, it's hard because we have two contexts colliding...but you've gotta realize that what you view as "obscene", "immodest", and "undignified" would be so in your homes, communities, and churches....but is NOT on the streets of San Francisco.

Well said and understood, however for the last few decades the Gay community has been reaching out to those outside of SF in an effort to sway opinion and break down barriers, this parade adds bricks and mortar to that barrier.

Some would celebrate this parade, and justify the conduct as "fun", then those same people need to analyze for themselves and resist the temptation to criticize those who are not on board. To agree with "in your face, shock value displays" is to shoulder part of the blame for Prop 8. Either decadence is a celebrated part of the gay community, or it is put out there as shock value, either way MANY do not support it. I really sympathize with gays who are embarrassed by this parade.

chris12
06-27-2011, 12:51 PM
One thing that we have discovered (and this is the result of actual research and experience), is THIS:

People who post extremely negative and/or "hate-filled" things on this forum tend to be somewhat like THIS:

1) they NEVER show up for "grassroots" gun rights events
2) they rarely support Calguns (via gun show booths, etc.)
3) they may send money to various gun groups - BUT - they rarely do more than that
4) they rarely interact in a positive manner within their own communities
5) they tend to be loners, and/or have a pattern of negative interactions on this form and/or other forums
6) they tend to have an overly simplistic and black/white view of reality
7) they tend to post about various sad negative events in their own lives, and they tend to blame others for these events.

Hmm, I don't think I qualify as extremely negative or hate-filled, but I do meet a number of the criteria that are common to these people. I wonder what that says about me.

Bigtime1
06-27-2011, 1:11 PM
http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg741/scaled.php?tn=0&server=741&filename=7k1e.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Sign Pic (http://twitpic.com/5hhxer)

Truck Pic (http://twitpic.com/5hi00y)


That one has to make narrow-minded people scratch their heads.

GettoPhilosopher
06-27-2011, 1:28 PM
Well said and understood, however for the last few decades the Gay community has been reaching out to those outside of SF in an effort to sway opinion and break down barriers, this parade adds bricks and mortar to that barrier.
(...)


Sure, and that's where I think we need to look at our own internal debates about things like Open Carry. Some of us think UOC is The Answer, some of us think it's The Problem, and a lot of us are in between. There's room for debate in the 2A tent. I wouldn't want someone to give up on the 2A movement solely because they hate UOC or give up on calguns just because we're not gung-ho UOCers. Similarly, I don't think our participation with Pink Pistols should solely be determined on whether or not we think pride parades are the "best" for LGBTQs.

Personally, I have no problem with them.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

Barkoff
06-27-2011, 1:55 PM
Well I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage, not being real familiar with the PPs. But I find myself reiterating, I have no problems with the PPs or a PP-Calgun relationship, I only object to participation and affirmation of the obscenity in that parade, no matter who or what the parade celebrates. I think reaching out to the Gay community at different venues is a great idea.

jdberger
06-27-2011, 1:57 PM
Folsom Street Fair?

(I kid...I kid)

berto
06-27-2011, 2:05 PM
Folsom Street Fair?

(I kid...I kid)

Plenty of calgunners have leather holsters...

wash
06-27-2011, 2:10 PM
Lamb skin?

greasemonkey
06-27-2011, 9:04 PM
I think it's a disgrace CGN federation wants anything to do with that parade.Bunch of man half naked walking down the street I will never donate a penny to you guys.I know others feel the same way but don't want to speak out.By CGN Federation, do you actually mean the Federation of American Scientists: CGN 36 California Class? (http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns/navy/surfacewarfare/cgn36.html)

Why is it a disgrace. Only you deserve the right to self defense?

Btw. Naked womens galore.Because only people that think like him should be able to exercise their Constitutionally protected rights, another time comes to mind where a certain sector of people were barred the right to defend themselves and the right to free speech...oh yeah, something about blacks and slavery. "Don't regulate the things I do, just regulate the things others do with whom I disagree."

TKM
06-27-2011, 9:38 PM
I'm not kidding when I say that I'm proud of everyone of you that made it out to the parade.

I'm proud of everyone who speaks up for equal rights for everyone. The whole "not my problem" bites us all in the *** eventually.

Equality now.http://www.equalitynow.org/english/index.html

They might not know who we are, but they should.

Go ahead and try to subjugate an armed populace. I'll buy the first dozen flowers.

Yes, I'm putting my money where my mouth is. Step up or shut up.

ErikTheRed
06-27-2011, 11:14 PM
Freedom to express one's self without criminal behavior falls squarely within the scope and intent of our Constitution, and if that were the only aspect of this conversation, I'd simply shrug my shoulders, shake my head in disgust, and move along. But liberty and freedom are not in question here, at least not by me. What I am trying to convey is my confusion at the whole idea that, for whatever mysterious reason that defies my logic, the gay rights / gay pride movement seems hell-bent on offending the very core mainstream of America who find this sort of public indecency repulsive, while at the same time curiously demanding their respect and acceptance. Am I missing something here? Yes, I understand that the gay pride folks have every "right" to excersize their own individual versions of morality, even if it bucks the historically acceptable morality code that has existed within our civil society for nearly two and a half centuries. However, I question the logic for doing so as it seems totally counterproductive. Tolerance is a 2-way street: Every person who desires it must also practice it. Gay "rights" are a legal issue, but they will never be a social one. By that I mean, to fight for a change of laws that discriminate or impede your rights is perfectly understandable and defensable. But to expect others to just drop their convictions and accept a behavior that one might believe is morally corrupt, and then label those who refuse to do so with terms such as "narrow minded, bigoted, intolerant, hateful", or any other nonsense is a blatent show of hypocracy. I do NOT accept the behavior and indecency that takes place at too many "gay pride" gatherings and parades. I do not and I never will, despite the demands that I do so. It is diametrically opposed to everything I believe to be good, decent, and moral. I do not believe these displays should be public, and I certainly don't believe they do any good whatsoever to advance the cause of gay rights or equality in the eyes of John Q. Public. This sort of behavior should be kept indoors, in private, and I believe that to be the case no matter the sexual orientation of those involved. There are laws already in place (of which most I agree with), that clearly define the legal limits for such displays with respect to public indecency. These laws are predicated upon a common moral standard, and I believe these parades and gatherings stretch and even break those laws yet nothing is done about it because, well hey, its all about gay rights. But what about MY rights to not be subject to it? Making it public instead of private certainly violates my rights, doesn't it? Again, hypocracy does not make friends for the gay community. Perhaps the true intent with these parades, whether unintentional or cloaked in deceit, is to fight more for a change in our moral code than it is about gay rights. I dunno, but it seems perfectly logical to assume this might be a possibility.

All that said, strangely, I do understand the intent of CGF's involvement. I completely disagree with it, but I understand it.

ErikTheRed
06-27-2011, 11:40 PM
This isn't a CGF sponsored event. This is Pink Pistols sponsored event with individual board members from CGF and a few of the C3 volunteers here on CGN walking in the parade with the Pink Pistols contingent.



Perhaps "sponsored" was an irresponsible term. "Support" and/or "involved" are better descriptions.

In any case, I do not consider myself a single-issue American as I believe all parts of the Constitution are equally important. Yes, ALL parts, even the parts that some of you may think I don't support (such as the right to march in a gay parade, for example.) As some prominent CGF officials have been quoted as saying, in so many words, "It might be your right to do it, but that doesn't justify the wisdom in doing it." I can't justify sacrificing one conviction for the sake of promoting another. I'll focus on defending both convictions instead. Gay rights are one thing, but gay pride parades conducted in the manner that they are is quite another--- we go from rights to morals, and neither your rights nor my morals should be up for negotiation as we are both entitled to both. The answer, IMO? Excersize your rights in such a way that respect our morals and we won't allow our morals to impede your rights. Keep what should be private, private. We'll do the same. Seems a reasonable solution.

oaklander
06-28-2011, 2:48 AM
Hmm, I don't think I qualify as extremely negative or hate-filled, but I do meet a number of the criteria that are common to these people. I wonder what that says about me.

It says that you are new here.

People often start out with certain opinions. Then those opinions change when they actually start attending grassroots events. The California gun owners you will meet are NOT what you will expect. Once you see "us" from the inside, you yourself go "outside."

OUTSIDE of your / previous / thinking. Getting involved can change a person, and ALWAYS FOR THE BETTER.

Rm -rf *

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

CABilly
06-28-2011, 3:02 AM
Freedom to express one's self without criminal behavior falls squarely within the scope and intent of our Constitution, and if that were the only aspect of this conversation, I'd simply shrug my shoulders, shake my head in disgust, and move along. But liberty and freedom are not in question here, at least not by me. What I am trying to convey is my confusion at the whole idea that, for whatever mysterious reason that defies my logic, the gay rights / gay pride movement seems hell-bent on offending the very core mainstream of America who find this sort of public indecency repulsive, while at the same time curiously demanding their respect and acceptance. Am I missing something here? Yes, I understand that the gay pride folks have every "right" to excersize their own individual versions of morality, even if it bucks the historically acceptable morality code that has existed within our civil society for nearly two and a half centuries. However, I question the logic for doing so as it seems totally counterproductive. Tolerance is a 2-way street: Every person who desires it must also practice it. Gay "rights" are a legal issue, but they will never be a social one. By that I mean, to fight for a change of laws that discriminate or impede your rights is perfectly understandable and defensable. But to expect others to just drop their convictions and accept a behavior that one might believe is morally corrupt, and then label those who refuse to do so with terms such as "narrow minded, bigoted, intolerant, hateful", or any other nonsense is a blatent show of hypocracy. I do NOT accept the behavior and indecency that takes place at too many "gay pride" gatherings and parades. I do not and I never will, despite the demands that I do so. It is diametrically opposed to everything I believe to be good, decent, and moral. I do not believe these displays should be public, and I certainly don't believe they do any good whatsoever to advance the cause of gay rights or equality in the eyes of John Q. Public. This sort of behavior should be kept indoors, in private, and I believe that to be the case no matter the sexual orientation of those involved. There are laws already in place (of which most I agree with), that clearly define the legal limits for such displays with respect to public indecency. These laws are predicated upon a common moral standard, and I believe these parades and gatherings stretch and even break those laws yet nothing is done about it because, well hey, its all about gay rights. But what about MY rights to not be subject to it? Making it public instead of private certainly violates my rights, doesn't it? Again, hypocracy does not make friends for the gay community. Perhaps the true intent with these parades, whether unintentional or cloaked in deceit, is to fight more for a change in our moral code than it is about gay rights. I dunno, but it seems perfectly logical to assume this might be a possibility.

All that said, strangely, I do understand the intent of CGF's involvement. I completely disagree with it, but I understand it.

Perhaps "sponsored" was an irresponsible term. "Support" and/or "involved" are better descriptions.

In any case, I do not consider myself a single-issue American as I believe all parts of the Constitution are equally important. Yes, ALL parts, even the parts that some of you may think I don't support (such as the right to march in a gay parade, for example.) As some prominent CGF officials have been quoted as saying, in so many words, "It might be your right to do it, but that doesn't justify the wisdom in doing it." I can't justify sacrificing one conviction for the sake of promoting another. I'll focus on defending both convictions instead. Gay rights are one thing, but gay pride parades conducted in the manner that they are is quite another--- we go from rights to morals, and neither your rights nor my morals should be up for negotiation as we are both entitled to both. The answer, IMO? Excersize your rights in such a way that respect our morals and we won't allow our morals to impede your rights. Keep what should be private, private. We'll do the same. Seems a reasonable solution.

In other words, shut up and get back in the closet.


I, for one, am glad the PP were able to team up with some CGers and march in the parade. Were it not for work, I'd have been there.

Lex Arma
06-28-2011, 5:35 AM
Some recent history recounting WHY there is a Pride Parade. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots

ccmc
06-28-2011, 5:56 AM
Interesting thread. Gay pride/rights and RKBA certainly don't have to be mutually exclusive, but in the real political world they pretty much are ie MOST politicians that are advocates for gay rights are generally anti RKBA whereas MOST politicians that are advocates for RKBA are generally anti gay rights. Yeah, I know there are exceptions, but that's the general rule. I don't like it myself, but for me RKBA trumps gay rights in the voting booth. Sorry, but that's the way it is. I'm too old to wait for an ideal world. YMMV.

wash
06-28-2011, 9:03 AM
For all those that are confused, the people in the parade were marching for the Pink Pistols who want equal rights and don't want to be bashed.

Calguns.net did not parade and The Calguns Foundation (CGF) did not parade.

The people who are upset here are upset that some people who post on calguns.net and a CGF board member or two participated in the parade.

To all that, I say mind your own business.

Some people here are in the business of making heads explode and this is one way they do it.

hoffmang
06-28-2011, 6:55 PM
ErikTR,

I want to challenge liberal attitudes about guns. PRIDE is an excellent venue. By adopting enough of PRIDE's attitude to be taken seriously, we challenge people who are reflexively anti-gun to think about what letting a lesbian couple carry handguns means to their personal safety.

We have two core chants we do as we march:

Marriage License! Carry License!

and

Armed Gays Don't Get Bashed!

Each year we do this we get more and more support from the crowd. We actually had sections of the PRIDE crowd chanting Marriage License/Carry License.

Think about what that does for everyone's rights to keep and carry guns.

-Gene

Luieburger
06-28-2011, 7:19 PM
We actually had sections of the PRIDE crowd chanting Marriage License/Carry License.

The reaction from the crowd sure made me feel good. The whole experience was tons of fun. I got a serious adrenaline high. Looking forward to next year already.

ErikTheRed
06-30-2011, 1:36 AM
In other words, shut up and get back in the closet.


Even more bewildering than the intent of an offensive gay pride parade (most are, IMO) is anyone who would read the comments I've made on this topic and come to such a shallow, defensive conclusion like the one CABilly just posted. Um, sir, do you actually absorb and contemplate the material before you offer comment? It seems not. But perhaps helpful would be this small tidbit..... its not the coming out that is an issue, but rather how one chooses to make his entry into the room.

nicki
06-30-2011, 2:22 AM
The Pride Parade is going into "Sin City" and saving souls.

The pride parade is a defiant and decadent parade, but most stuff I view from a "whatever" view. Many of the people I found entertaining, especially that guy in the contingent in front of us who entertained the crowd with "Winston".

Since this is a family thread, I will leave out what "Winston" was. I will give a hint, he is "Pinkie's" small black bother attacked to a pistol like power drill.

All of us who marched know exactly what I am talking about.

To those who have issues with this project, find something else to reach out to people normally not on our side and take the lead to make it happen.

Nicki

Scarecrow Repair
06-30-2011, 2:28 AM
its not the coming out that is an issue, but rather how one chooses to make his entry into the room.

Or how those in the room don't want the door opened, or want it opened when no one's around to see it, or want it to open into another closet.

ErikTheRed
06-30-2011, 5:04 PM
Or how those in the room don't want the door opened, or want it opened when no one's around to see it, or want it to open into another closet.

Its becoming more clear why the gay and straight communities are at such odds. Even when the straight community tries to express their concerns and find amicable grounds, the gay community becomes too unwilling to see anything from any perspective but their own. Ironically, "open-mindedness" is what they demand of everyone else. I've said my piece in the most explainitory way I know how, yet still there will be those who refuse to see it through any prism but the one that says-- "If you have a problem with anything we do or any way we see fit to do it, then you must be an intolerant, mean-sprirted bigot and we refuse to compromise with haters."

oaklander
07-01-2011, 12:36 AM
Its becoming more clear why the gay and straight communities are at such odds. Even when the straight community tries to express their concerns and find amicable grounds, the gay community becomes too unwilling to see anything from any perspective but their own. Ironically, "open-mindedness" is what they demand of everyone else. I've said my piece in the most explainitory way I know how, yet still there will be those who refuse to see it through any prism but the one that says-- "If you have a problem with anything we do or any way we see fit to do it, then you must be an intolerant, mean-sprirted bigot and we refuse to compromise with haters."

You've made your point. I've been on this forum since "two weeks" and this same stupid conversation has come up like 50 times. None of you have YET TO FIX THE FRIGGEN ISSUE. Just take a break from debating about tactics and lifestyles, and get to FRIGGEN work on the GUN STUFF.

None of you people who seem sooooooo concerned about the "gay issue" even do much for GUN RIGHTS. I don't think I've met you? I'm guessing you are not doin too much at our events, are you?

Why are you even here? This isn't a social club for xxxxxxxxx.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

Lex Arma
07-01-2011, 5:13 AM
You've made your point. I've been on this forum since "two weeks" and this same stupid conversation has come up like 50 times. None of you have YET TO FIX THE FRIGGEN ISSUE. Just take a break from debating about tactics and lifestyles, and get to FRIGGEN work on the GUN STUFF.

None of you people who seem sooooooo concerned about the "gay issue" even do much for GUN RIGHTS. I don't think I've met you? I'm guessing you are not doin too much at our events, are you?

Why are you even here? This isn't a social club for xxxxxxxxx.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

If this is the "Erik the Red" I think it is, he's a good man to have on our side, and I am personally acquainted with his efforts to support 2A. I'm ok with him being repulsed by the sexual exhibitionism of the pride parade, so long as he acknowledges the civil rights of the LGBT individuals. Sexual modesty does not make someone intolerant.

Nuf said.

ccmc
07-01-2011, 11:00 AM
Pride is better placed in being American, in the US Constitution, in one's work, in treating others like you would want to be treated, rather than on one's race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation. What are the chances of that?

oaklander
07-01-2011, 11:15 AM
If this is the "Erik the Red" I think it is, he's a good man to have on our side, and I am personally acquainted with his efforts to support 2A. I'm ok with him being repulsed by the sexual exhibitionism of the pride parade, so long as he acknowledges the civil rights of the LGBT individuals. Sexual modesty does not make someone intolerant.

Nuf said.

Yes. I agree that all folks need to use decorum with respect to displays of sexuality. That is a reasonable stance.

What I guess is bugging me is that, as a community, Calguns simply debates this single topic into the ground EVERY TIME IT COMES UP. I know that you are twenty times busier than me, and even on this end, I barely have time to return phone calls - I'm so busy trying to earn a living and do the gun stuff.

I'm guessing that this thread easily contains a few hundred hours of thought, and "writing time." I think we can all agree that we should MAYBE devote that time to fixing the "gun issue" first?

That was my main point. This forum is NOT entitled CalArgueAboutSexualIssuesAndLifestyleIssues.net. At this point, I'm thinking that we could create an entire NEW community where people can argue about that. They won't fix anything, but they will feel better about the issues, I guess. . .

My take on life is simply to do the next right action. Right now, I'm working with you and everyone to help fix the gun issue. This WILL GET FIXED. Maybe when we are done, the we can help address the other issues that divide us. But in the meantime, it just seems very rational to not let these things divide us, like they tend to do sometimes. I know the guys in this thread, and it hurts me to see the "gay issue" mixed in with the gun issue.

People who are close to me know how I feel about gay issues. At Murphys, I'm going to likely be bunking with TB (me and Sierra) and I'm working real hard to get GP out to that event.

But I HATEIT, when the two issues get intertwined. They kind of "are" in reality, for various reasons. But we USE THAT NEXIS, we don't let it wedge us, as it is here. That's the complex dynamic that I ineloquently was attempting to address.

AS A MOVEMENT WE NEED TO DROP CERTAIN DISCUSSIONS THAT DO NOT DIRECTLY AFFECT US. We learned that strident is bad, and we work closely with the gay rights movement on tactics and strategy on the gun stuff. They are our friends, and we need to respect that.

But I agree with you that we also embrace reasoned discourse. It's just that the discourse on this topic is a diversion, and not a solution.

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

AndrewMendez
07-01-2011, 1:40 PM
I spent the better part of last night and this morning, re reading the threads related to us marching in parades. I have asked for input, for what people think in the OT: Here is the thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=451040


Please feel free to provide input.
Andrew Mendez

Stonewalker
07-01-2011, 2:18 PM
I spent the better part of last night and this morning, re reading the threads related to us marching in parades. I have asked for input, for what people think in the OT: Here is the thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=451040


Please feel free to provide input.
Andrew Mendez

Bold move putting that in OT...

oaklander
07-01-2011, 3:56 PM
Yes and brilliant.

Bold move putting that in OT...



Via Android. Excuse brevity.

AndrewMendez
07-01-2011, 5:36 PM
Bold move putting that in OT...

I figure most people in the OT have A LOT to talk about, given the number of post in there. ;)

Stonewalker
07-01-2011, 6:19 PM
Yes and brilliant.

Via Android. Excuse brevity.

I figure most people in the OT have A LOT to talk about, given the number of post in there. ;)

I get it though. We've got a lot of resources (people) and MOST of them hang out in OT all damn day :chris:

ErikTheRed
07-01-2011, 11:32 PM
Thanks DK for putting in a good word on my behalf. Yes, I like to think I'm as involved or more so than the average Joe, but I still have a looooooong way to go before I can faithfully consider myself a true warrior for RKBA. I make my donations, I write my letters, make my phone calls, appear at as many events as time permits, so on and so forth. I would likely not have involved myself in this thread had I not took some issue with CGF's participation in the gay parade, but I've said my piece and I hope I've made my point to as many people who will understand it. (notice I didn't say agree with it.) At this point though, I think all the points have been made by both sides and I see no further sense in redundancy. Everyone who reads this thread will have an opinion that either agrees with one position or the other, and maybe I've performed a service by speaking up for those who agree with mine. Now then....... moving on.......

tboyer
07-01-2011, 11:38 PM
Gays are only Democrats because they think all Republicans are homophobic bible thumpers who condemn and judge them.

You sound very shallow when you make statements like that. I don't know any homophobic (unrealistic fear of homosexuals) conservatives. I know a lot of Christians and they are respectful, responsible citizens. I don't know any "bible thumpers".

if you got spit on and told you were damned to hell if you didn't change your sexual orientation and find jeasus..... would you vote for the guys that spit on you?

I don't associate with one single person that would treat anybody like that and I am certain none of the people I know would have anthing to do with anybody that would behave that way.

I suspect that your life experience has been different from many gay people
note the below posting, and this is from Calguns, a firearm forum that is better than
many towards gay people.


Hey, I keep rooting for the flesh eating bacteria in San Francisco! Go bacteria!

Yet you continue to associate with this forum by posting on it.
Just as the Pink Pistols associate with the Pride Parade by marching
in it.
Some claim that marching in the Pride Parade, is bad PR for the
Pink Pistols among straight gun owners (I don't think straight gun owners
attend Pride Parades, with or with out their children)
Don't you think that the above quote might be bad PR among many
people, yet you still post on Calguns.

If one looks at all the pictures of the Pink Pistols at Pride Parades,
none of us have been indecently attired.
Yes we had "pinkie", but most of you weren't marching in the Pride Parade,
so that should be taken into account in regards the discussion on "pinkie" at
a Pride Parade, and the benefit thereof.

How many of you have gotten a crowd that is normally hostile towards the
2A chant:
marriage rights/ carry rights

As for this statement:

Hey, I keep rooting for the flesh eating bacteria in San Francisco! Go bacteria!

I have a good friend that has known me for 27 years, suffer from permanent heart damage because of MRSA.
That same friend, as president of the Pride Parade Committee was instrumental
in allowing the Pink Pistols to march the first time in San Francisco's Pride Parade.
That statement is not funny, it is hateful, in the true sense of the word.

Luieburger
07-02-2011, 7:38 AM
I figure most people in the OT have A LOT to talk about, given the number of post in there. ;)

I made a lengthy reply. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6699046&postcount=106

Good Saturday morning writing. :)

CavTrooper
07-02-2011, 12:20 PM
As for this statement:


Please link to the source of the quote.

Thank you.