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Yugo
06-13-2011, 2:52 PM
I just came back from the Records building in Downtown LA after 2 hrs of waiting for them to locate the file I finally got it and on the last page says the case was dismissed. Now my question is do I need to list this when im filling out a Utah CCW app? I want to be fully honest and do everything legally. Thanks in advance.

MrClamperSir
06-13-2011, 2:54 PM
What case are you reffering to?

TRICKSTER
06-13-2011, 2:55 PM
:confused:

Yugo
06-13-2011, 2:57 PM
what do you mean by, What case? What PC I got arrested for?

Barbarossa
06-13-2011, 2:58 PM
I believe he is asking for some frame of reference so he can intelligently answer your question.

WTSGDYBBR
06-13-2011, 3:02 PM
I just came back from the Records building in Downtown LA after 2 hrs of waiting for them to locate the file I finally got it and on the last page says the case was dismissed. Now my question is do I need to list this when im filling out a Utah CCW app? I want to be fully honest and do everything legally. Thanks in advance.


I would say do not list it. This is no difference then expunging a record. You could have been convicted of a crime and get that record expunged that the court will say case dismissed.

MrClamperSir
06-13-2011, 3:06 PM
what do you mean by, What case? What PC I got arrested for?

Yes it would be nice to know what you are dealing with in order to answer the question.

Is there a back story or some detail you could provide as to happened, when and where?

Yugo
06-13-2011, 3:10 PM
I have NOT had it expunged. I have not done ahything. I am asking this cause the app that I want to send in for the Utah CCW says, "A complete criminal backround check will be conducted including expunged and juvinial court records. If you answer YES to any question , attach documentation explaining your answer". So I just want to do things the right way.

Maestro Pistolero
06-13-2011, 3:13 PM
I have NOT had it expunged. I have not done ahything. I am asking this cause the app that I want to send in for the Utah CCW says, "A complete criminal backround check will be conducted including expunged and juvinial court records. If you answer YES to any question , attach documentation explaining your answer". So I just want to do things the right way.

Had WHAT expunged? You haven't described to or referenced any case. What are you talking about?

Decoligny
06-13-2011, 3:20 PM
The questions listed do not address any arrests for which the case was dismissed.

I would answer the questions asked 100% honestly. When they do a background check if it shows up as a dismissed case, then nothing should come of it.

☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of a felony?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of a crime of violence?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of an offense involving the use of alcohol? (i.e. DUI/DWI, alcohol related reckless, unlawful use of alcohol, etc.)
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of any offense involving moral turpitude? (i.e., theft, criminal mischief, sex crimes, etc.)
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been arrested for any offense involving domestic violence?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been adjudicated as mentally incompetent?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been involved in any incident in which you have used unlawful violence or threats of unlawful violence?
☐ Yes ☐ No Are you currently subject to a court sanctioned protective order?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces?

Yugo
06-13-2011, 3:21 PM
Im sorry if it was required for me to SAY what happened I would rather not. I was 15 years old and I acted on emotions. I did not hurt anyone but I did cost the LAUSD some time. I got arrested for my act and went to court they told me I had to complete some councilling, few hours of community serv., probation for a couple weeks (at home), and I wrote an apology letter and that was it. like I said the last document from the court says in the THE COURT ORDERS section,
"the 602 petition filed *date* is dismissed. The box checked says [with prejudice] and the box checked [654wic]"

Yugo
06-13-2011, 3:29 PM
What I think im trying to ask here is I was accused of a felony but "IF" I got convicted it would NOT say "DISMISSED", correct? It would say "CONVICTED".

Librarian
06-13-2011, 3:46 PM
What I think im trying to ask here is I was accused of a felony but "IF" I got convicted it would NOT say "DISMISSED", correct? It would say "CONVICTED".

Yes, it would. I think you also would have remembered the fine and/or the cuffs and the associated incarceration.

Nobody, I think, really wants to know what the charges were.

But you started with " Case was Dismissed" -- but you had not been talking, on Calguns, anyway, about any case or a way that a case might affect you. There's no context for your post.

OTOH, congratulations on case dismissed.

Yugo
06-13-2011, 3:49 PM
Yes, it would. I think you also would have remembered the fine and/or the cuffs and the associated incarceration.

Nobody, I think, really wants to know what the charges were.

But you started with " Case was Dismissed" -- but you had not been talking, on Calguns, anyway, about any case or a way that a case might affect you. There's no context for your post.

OTOH, congratulations on case dismissed.

Sorry for the confusion. & thanks.

Thanks to all for the help I will be filling out NO to all the questions and I shall wait.

WTSGDYBBR
06-13-2011, 3:55 PM
What I think im trying to ask here is I was accused of a felony but "IF" I got convicted it would NOT say "DISMISSED", correct? It would say "CONVICTED".


You are wrong . Someone could have been arrested with a assault rifle . Depending on the pc code that was used it could be a felony infraction. The person could have went to court to fight it and took a ple bargen to drop the Felony to Misdemeanors infraction and pay a fine. 5 years later you 100% could expung your court record and it would only read CASE DISMISSED. Only the feds or local government could pull your case. Your employer would not even know you had a issue in the past.

anthonyca
06-13-2011, 4:02 PM
The questions listed do not address any arrests for which the case was dismissed.

I would answer the questions asked 100% honestly. When they do a background check if it shows up as a dismissed case, then nothing should come of it.

☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of a felony?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of a crime of violence?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of an offense involving the use of alcohol? (i.e. DUI/DWI, alcohol related reckless, unlawful use of alcohol, etc.)
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of the unlawful use of narcotics or other controlled substances?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been convicted of any offense involving moral turpitude? (i.e., theft, criminal mischief, sex crimes, etc.)
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been arrested for any offense involving domestic violence?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been adjudicated as mentally incompetent?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been involved in any incident in which you have used unlawful violence or threats of unlawful violence?
☐ Yes ☐ No Are you currently subject to a court sanctioned protective order?
☐ Yes ☐ No Have you ever been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces?

I don't like how they ask about convictions bit when it comes to domestic violence they ask about arrests. DV are usually shall arrest with no officer discretion and the other states lean heavily toward arresting. DV has to be the easiest thing to be arrested for.

Sorry for the thread jack.

Liberty1
06-13-2011, 4:03 PM
That is your 'public' record. A government agency will see, I believe, the whole picture. To keep your Utah application from being denied through a possible false statement of 'no' I would consult more then this forum for your answer.

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:10 PM
That is your 'public' record. A government agency will see, I believe, the whole picture. To keep your Utah application from being denied through a possible false statement of 'no' I would consult more then this forum for your answer.

I figured I would have to talk to a lawyer but I thought I would ask here first. Tell me if im wrong, I have DOJed 4 guns already if I was convicted would I not have been denied?

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:11 PM
Is Davis the place I should contact? I dont have my own lawyer.

DRH
06-13-2011, 4:17 PM
Im sorry if it was required for me to SAY what happened I would rather not. I was 15 years old and I acted on emotions. I did not hurt anyone but I did cost the LAUSD some time. I got arrested for my act and went to court they told me I had to complete some councilling, few hours of community serv., probation for a couple weeks (at home), and I wrote an apology letter and that was it. like I said the last document from the court says in the THE COURT ORDERS section,
"the 602 petition filed *date* is dismissed. The box checked says [with prejudice] and the box checked [654wic]"

I dont' see how you can get community service, probation and have a 602 form filed making you a ward of the state and not have been found guilty of something. You need to research your case better you might even be a prohibited person.

five.five-six
06-13-2011, 4:21 PM
Nobody, I think, really wants to know what the charges were.


speak for yourself















J/K . no, you are not guilty of anythign you were not convicted of, dismissed meand "we thought he did it,but I guess wer were wrong, case dismissed" other than your leagal fees and a few nites in the klink, no harm no foul

dwtt
06-13-2011, 4:22 PM
You are wrong . Someone could have been arrested with a assault rifle . Depending on the pc code that was used it could be a felony infraction. The person could have went to court to fight it and took a ple bargen to drop the Felony to Misdemeanors infraction and pay a fine. 5 years later you 100% could expung your court record and it would only read CASE DISMISSED. Only the feds or local government could pull your case. Your employer would not even know you had a issue in the past.

You are fabricating a hypothetical situation not applicable to the OP. Please read his post above where he says he did community service and was put on probation. There was no conviction, based on what I read. You should really reread the OP's posts before posting.

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:24 PM
I dont' see how you can get community service, probation and have a 602 form filed making you a ward of the state and not have been found guilty of something. You need to research your case better you might even be a prohibited person.

Damn now im scared. :eek:

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:28 PM
I know its not free to talk to a lawyer how much money (estimate) should I be ready for before I contact Davis?

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:30 PM
I dont' see how you can get community service, probation and have a 602 form filed making you a ward of the state and not have been found guilty of something. You need to research your case better you might even be a prohibited person.

im sorry I should have added, after the 602 petition the next line has a checked box "CASE DISMISSED"

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:31 PM
thanks again for every ones help!

bigcalidave
06-13-2011, 4:34 PM
Send in the PFEC form to the DOJ and verify you are eligible. To do the time, you must have been convicted of the crime. I never understand how people don't know if they were convicted of a crime or not. If you lie on the CCW app you will probably be denied outright, even if your case was dismissed after the sentence was carried out.

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:38 PM
Send in the PFEC form to the DOJ and verify you are eligible. To do the time, you must have been convicted of the crime. I never understand how people don't know if they were convicted of a crime or not. If you lie on the CCW app you will probably be denied outright, even if your case was dismissed after the sentence was carried out.

so your telling me that when I buy a gun and they run me through the DOJ is not the same thing? Wow could I have slipped 4 times through the cracks?

bigcalidave
06-13-2011, 4:43 PM
I think (believe) that they may pay attention more with the PFEC. Not sure, I've heard of felons passing the check, although it is very rare. I doubt you got four guns and are prohibited. We also still don't know what the original charge was, so can't really give the advice. If you want it to stay private, you are gonna have to ask a lawyer. You could also call the office in Utah and ask them directly, be honest with the charges and the dates and the dismissal.

Yugo
06-13-2011, 4:48 PM
where should I check that would list the NOT ELIGIBLE pc codes?

blakdawg
06-13-2011, 4:50 PM
Also, I haven't seen the Utah CCW app in a few years so I don't know offhand what it asks - but whatever it says, READ THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS. Answer the question they asked, not the question you wish they asked or that you think they should have asked.

If it asks "Have you ever been arrested?" then it sounds like the answer is YES.
If it asks "Have you ever been charged with a crime?" then it sounds like the answer is YES.
If it asks "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" then it sounds like the answer is NO.

On the other hand, I am puzzled that you seem unfamiliar with your own case. Perhaps one of your parents could explain it to you? I think it would be a good idea to understand exactly what happened, procedurally, because this sort of thing comes up not so infrequently in adult life, depending on what sorts of things you're doing and the license(s) you need for that.

Also, often juvenile "crimes" are treated differently than adult crimes.

Usually, the safest thing to do is disclose what you're not sure about - if you've already got a copy of the court file, you can send that with your application without a lot of trouble, where they ask for more information. Usually the question that says "Have you ever [...]?" is followed by "If your answer to any of the above questions was YES, then attach a sheet with an explanation of the circumstances."

In most cases, the "coverup" is worse than the crime - both in terms of substantive punishment, and in terms of the later implications. When someone asks you to sign something "under penalty of perjury", pay attention - that's the warning that you could be prosecuted if you're lying or hiding something. Not that it happens that often - but do you want to be the exception?

Riodog
06-13-2011, 4:52 PM
What was that address again? Another one fell thru the cracks and there might be a reward for um.:D
Rio

Yugo
06-13-2011, 5:09 PM
Also, I haven't seen the Utah CCW app in a few years so I don't know offhand what it asks - but whatever it says, READ THE ACTUAL QUESTIONS. Answer the question they asked, not the question you wish they asked or that you think they should have asked.

If it asks "Have you ever been arrested?" then it sounds like the answer is YES.
If it asks "Have you ever been charged with a crime?" then it sounds like the answer is YES.
If it asks "Have you ever been convicted of a crime?" then it sounds like the answer is NO.

On the other hand, I am puzzled that you seem unfamiliar with your own case. Perhaps one of your parents could explain it to you? I think it would be a good idea to understand exactly what happened, procedurally, because this sort of thing comes up not so infrequently in adult life, depending on what sorts of things you're doing and the license(s) you need for that.

Also, often juvenile "crimes" are treated differently than adult crimes.

Usually, the safest thing to do is disclose what you're not sure about - if you've already got a copy of the court file, you can send that with your application without a lot of trouble, where they ask for more information. Usually the question that says "Have you ever [...]?" is followed by "If your answer to any of the above questions was YES, then attach a sheet with an explanation of the circumstances."

In most cases, the "coverup" is worse than the crime - both in terms of substantive punishment, and in terms of the later implications. When someone asks you to sign something "under penalty of perjury", pay attention - that's the warning that you could be prosecuted if you're lying or hiding something. Not that it happens that often - but do you want to be the exception?

Im unfamiliar because it hasnt been brought up. My parents dont know they barely speak english.

Liberty1
06-13-2011, 5:45 PM
Call/email Jason Davis. If there is a charge for what is probably a simple issue for him, he'll tell you.

If you are an NRA/CRPA member then call Chuch Michel. I've had a few (minor) questions answered their by staffers due to my membership in those organizations.

Scarecrow Repair
06-13-2011, 5:50 PM
I know its not free to talk to a lawyer how much money (estimate) should I be ready for before I contact Davis?

Criminy! Stop pissing around on here and CALL THEM UP! The phone call is free. They will tell you how much an office visit costs.

CALL THEM and get the straight skinny. But you better be prepared to say more than you're willing to say here.

Worst they can do is turn you down. They can't reach thru the phone and grab your wallet.

Look at the times -- you first posted at 3:52 -- office hours. Now you have to wait til tomorrow.

RomanDad
06-13-2011, 5:59 PM
It sounds to me like you were put on some sort of Juvenile Diversion Program? Completed community service and the case (Im assuming Juvenile delinquency of some sort) was dismissed?

Read the application. If it ASKS for arrests, then YES.... YOU WERE ARRESTED. And you should answer honestly...

If it asks for convictions, then you weren't convicted.

Honestly, given its a Utah application, I would simply BE HONEST. THROW THE KITCHEN SINK AT THEM, and then explain "I was a stupid kid who made a mistake and Ive not been in trouble with the law since."


There's no sense in hiding anything.... What they MIGHT see is a SEALED Juvenile record, and that will cause more red flags than just explaining up front what happened.

You wont be denied for that. (unless it involved guns or DV)

Yugo
06-13-2011, 6:01 PM
Criminy! Stop pissing around on here and CALL THEM UP! The phone call is free. They will tell you how much an office visit costs.

CALL THEM and get the straight skinny. But you better be prepared to say more than you're willing to say here.

Worst they can do is turn you down. They can't reach thru the phone and grab your wallet.

Look at the times -- you first posted at 3:52 -- office hours. Now you have to wait til tomorrow.

I will be calling in the morning and if anyone else has more input that would be greatly appreciated.

skanless
06-13-2011, 6:05 PM
In to know final outcome and answers.

Decoligny
06-13-2011, 6:30 PM
You are fabricating a hypothetical situation not applicable to the OP. Please read his post above where he says he did community service and was put on probation. There was no conviction, based on what I read. You should really reread the OP's posts before posting.

I think there was an initial conviction probably with suspended sentence once conditions were met. After a period of time preset by the court with no further trouble case is dismissed.

This is what happened with my DUI in 1980. Got a 1 year probation suspended sentence. Went to a Community Alcohol Safety Education (CASE) course, stayed out of trouble for a year, case dismissed. If I screwed up during the year, then I got a conviction on my record and I would have to see a probation officer every week for a year.

uyoga
06-13-2011, 6:31 PM
Im sorry if it was required for me to SAY what happened I would rather not. I was 15 years old and I acted on emotions. I did not hurt anyone but I did cost the LAUSD some time. I got arrested for my act and went to court they told me I had to complete some councilling, few hours of community serv., probation for a couple weeks (at home), and I wrote an apology letter and that was it. like I said the last document from the court says in the THE COURT ORDERS section,
"the 602 petition filed *date* is dismissed. The box checked says [with prejudice] and the box checked [654wic]"

You need yo check "YES", and then give them the above details. Don't forget to include Court Name, Date, and Case Number.

Yugo
06-13-2011, 6:36 PM
No guns or DV

Yugo
06-13-2011, 6:37 PM
You need yo check "YES", and then give them the above details. Don't forget to include Court Name, Date, and Case Number.

But if I was not convicted why would I put yes? Im going to call davis in the morning and I think I will just have to send a copy of this document in with the app.

blazeaglory
06-13-2011, 7:33 PM
But if I was not convicted why would I put yes? Im going to call davis in the morning and I think I will just have to send a copy of this document in with the app.

well if you were never convicted than why are you having this conversation?

and if youve already purchased handguns 4 times and had no problems...dude i think youve gotten all the answers here that you can get