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Romprunner
06-12-2011, 10:14 AM
I live in california.

my girl friend and i want to go shooting in the desert.

im bringing my two rifles
she wants to bring her fathers 9mm pistol

He is former military and is assuring us that it would not be a big deal if we were to get pulled over or approached by law enforcement while carrying his gun.

She is 18, I am 21.


Legally, Would her or myself get in trouble for having the gun in the vehicle or shooting with the gun that is not registered to us personally.

Thanks

bwiese
06-12-2011, 12:35 PM
Per 12078(d) PC, the infrequent loan of a handgun between nonprohibited parties known to each other, for periods of up to 30, days is OK - providing the recipient holds a valid HSC card ("Handgun Safety Certificate").

HSCs are available at CA FFL dealers for $25 - the applicant has to take a 15? 20? question multiple choice test on gun safety/basic gun law. Some FFLs do not want to give HSC tests to those not buying guns, however, so she might have to shop around.

Use general care in transporting the guns, esp handguns. Locked & unloaded - and if for some reason inappropriate transport occurred that translates into a CCW charge, the charge can be a felony if the gun is not registered to the person in question.

dotalchemy
06-12-2011, 5:04 PM
IIRC it's 30 multiple choice questions.

Cokebottle
06-12-2011, 5:14 PM
Just to clarify...

Secure, locked container.

"Locked" is not met by the child-safe trigger/cable lock.

Stop by Staples and pick up a $20 combo-lock briefcase. That will meet the legal requirement.

diginit
06-22-2011, 8:45 PM
Keep in mind that to possess a handgun in Ca, You must be 21. So say the gun was loaned to you (21) and you are letting your GF(18) shoot it in your presence.
Bill... I'm suprised you missed this...And I just killed a pint of tequila!
If the handgun was legally owned before mandatory registration, It does not have to be registered and loan of the weapon is legal. But only to those allowed to possess firearms (no felonies, probation, or known gang affiliation) with a BHSC. (Basic handgun safety certificate)
The case thing is widely misunderstood. If the handgun is in a case, It is concealed and must be locked and unloaded in a vehicle. If it is uncased, unloaded, and in plain site or in a holster on a belt, It is openly carried. Legal even in a vehicle. Loaded where discharge of a firearm is permitted. Once again... providing the weapon in NOT concealed. But OC (open carry) is illegal if within 1000 ft of a K-12 school or within a government building. The weapon must be locked in a case under these circumstances. This all may change soon. Depending on certain bills passing or failing...
The CG WIKI has alot of info. Check it out.

Romprunner
07-22-2011, 3:00 PM
Giginit-

Thanks for clarifying, that sums up nearly all of my questions on the matter.

-Romper

ke6guj
07-22-2011, 4:01 PM
Keep in mind that to possess a handgun in Ca, You must be 21. So say the gun was loaned to you (21) and you are letting your GF(18) shoot it in your presence.
Bill... I'm suprised you missed this...And I just killed a pint of tequila!
If the handgun was legally owned before mandatory registration, It does not have to be registered and loan of the weapon is legal. But only to those allowed to possess firearms (no felonies, probation, or known gang affiliation) with a BHSC. (Basic handgun safety certificate)

really, do you have PC on that?

hint, there isn't any, because the law does not say that you ahve to be 21 to possess a handgun.

12078(d)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid handgun safety certificate.
(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072, and subdivision (b) of Section 12801 shall not apply to the loan of a firearm where all of the following conditions exist:
(A) The person loaning the firearm is at all times within the presence of the person being loaned the firearm.
(B) The loan is for a lawful purpose.
(C) The loan does not exceed three days in duration.
(D) The individual receiving the firearm is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code, or by Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(E) The person loaning the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
(F) The person being loaned the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

repubconserv
07-25-2011, 9:42 PM
Keep in mind that to possess a handgun in Ca, You must be 21. So say the gun was loaned to you (21) and you are letting your GF(18) shoot it in your presence.
Bill... I'm suprised you missed this...And I just killed a pint of tequila!
If the handgun was legally owned before mandatory registration, It does not have to be registered and loan of the weapon is legal. But only to those allowed to possess firearms (no felonies, probation, or known gang affiliation) with a BHSC. (Basic handgun safety certificate)
The case thing is widely misunderstood. If the handgun is in a case, It is concealed and must be locked and unloaded in a vehicle. If it is uncased, unloaded, and in plain site or in a holster on a belt, It is openly carried. Legal even in a vehicle. Loaded where discharge of a firearm is permitted. Once again... providing the weapon in NOT concealed. But OC (open carry) is illegal if within 1000 ft of a K-12 school or within a government building. The weapon must be locked in a case under these circumstances. This all may change soon. Depending on certain bills passing or failing...
The CG WIKI has alot of info. Check it out.

Bolded is wrong please read here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members#Ha ndgun_transfer_to_18-20_is_OK)

underlined might be why you were wrong :D

@OP welcome to Calguns

hoffmang
07-25-2011, 9:45 PM
HSC study guide here: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/hscsg.pdf

maccmill
07-26-2011, 11:44 AM
HSC study guide here: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/hscsg.pdf

The questions they ask you, as far as I remember, were pretty freaking easy.. it was like "True or False: It is sometimes okay to point a loaded gun at an infant" and **** like that. If you fail the test you either can't read English or you REALLY shouldn't own a gun.

tacticalcity
07-26-2011, 3:54 PM
I am not sure all of this is coming across as clear cut as you might want. So I will try and translate.

What they are saying is that because the hangun belongs to her father, he can loan it to her for a period of up to 30 days. If he is giving it to her, and you are moving here, then you will need to register it in her name by stopping by your local gun shop or an FFL that just processes paperwork for people.

However, inside California you need to carry a Handgun Safety Card to be in possession of a handgun. Your local gun store or an FFL that just processes paperwork for people will happily issue the test and issue you the card. Last I checked most places charged something like $30 for this test. I don't think they have a set fee for it by law. I think it varies. They included a link for the study guide above. The questions are straightforward, but one or two of them are worded in a way that throw a lot of people. So review the guide. Last I checked the questions are multiple choice.

When transporting the gun it needs to be UNLOADED and in a locked container or a locked compartment separate from the driver/passengers (i.e. trunk provided it is separate from the driver/passenger compartment). SUVs and station wagons are examples of vehicles that have trunks that are NOT a separate compartment from the driver/passengers...so you would need a locked container for those.

Personally I transport my unloaded guns to and from the shooting range in my locked trunk. I drive a sports sedan and the trunk is a separate locked compartment from the driver/passenger compartment. So it is nice and simple.

Librarian
07-26-2011, 4:25 PM
However, inside California you need to carry a Handgun Safety Card to be in possession of a handgun.

No. Nononononono!

The HSC is required, to show an FFL when one is buying a handgun. It's also required that the receiver in an operation of law or intrafamily transfer have one, but there is noone to show that to. That's it.

California, today, does not require any kind of document to own or possess any kind of gun (excepting 'assault weapons' and 'machine guns'), and it's even forbidden in the PC at 12026(b) (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12026.html) (b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident. Loaded, concealed carry, outside the specified locations, does require CCW.

CA will argue that the HSC is neither a permit nor a license, in the same sense as CCW. I think that's horse-hockey.

ETA moved to 2nd Amendment, politics and laws forum.

Cokebottle
07-26-2011, 6:32 PM
The questions they ask you, as far as I remember, were pretty freaking easy.. it was like "True or False: It is sometimes okay to point a loaded gun at an infant" and **** like that. If you fail the test you either can't read English or you REALLY shouldn't own a gun.
Most missed answers are the result of over-thinking the question, or jumping at the first apparent "right" answer.

Same as with a DMV test.

The one question that I missed on my motorcycle exam was:

When riding at night, in order to get a better view of the road ahead:

A - Decrease speed and increase following distance.
B - Use the headlights of the vehicle ahead of you.
C - Closely follow the vehicle ahead of you.

A and B are both proper night riding practices, but B is the correct answer.


On the HSC test, take the test with the frame of mind that the DOJ believes that guns are evil, and everyone should be afraid to touch them.
Some questions, when answered "correctly", are FUD, such as storage of a gun (unloaded, with a trigger lock installed).
Some questions are actually good... "Know your target and what's behind it"

Cokebottle
07-26-2011, 6:41 PM
However, inside California you need to carry a Handgun Safety Card to be in possession of a handgun.
Already answered above.
Your local gun store or an FFL that just processes paperwork for people will happily issue the test and issue you the card.
MAY issue... and maybe not happily.
They don't make any money off of it, so if you aren't buying a gun, they may discourage you, or claim that they are out of forms (and it's possible they are out).
Last I checked most places charged something like $30 for this test.
Like the $35 PPT, it is $25 by law, valid for 5 years. $10 to replace a lost card, but you have to go to the original issuing FFL to do it.

I've heard Turner's employees tell people that they can "renew" for $10, but that is not correct.

ke6guj
07-26-2011, 6:57 PM
Already answered above.

MAY issue... and maybe not happily.
They don't make any money off of it, so if you aren't buying a gun, they may discourage you, or claim that they are out of forms (and it's possible they are out).they make some money, $10 max on them. But if they sell you their last card, they can't make any money off a new buyer who needs to take the test.

Like the $35 PPT, it is $25 by law, valid for 5 years. $10 to replace a lost card, but you have to go to the original issuing FFL to do it.$15 to replace it because that is what CADOJ charges the instructor for the blank cards.

12.If I lose my Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) can I get a replacement?
Yes. A replacement Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) is available only through the DOJ Certified Instructor who issued your HSC. The HSC replacement cost is $15. The replacement HSC will reflect the same expiration date as your original HSC.





I've heard Turner's employees tell people that they can "renew" for $10, but that is not correct.If Turner's wants to do it at a loss, I don't think it is illegal for them to do so, but the card itself costs $15, so they'd be losing $5 plus the $10 fee they can charge.

Cokebottle
07-26-2011, 7:26 PM
If Turner's wants to do it at a loss, I don't think it is illegal for them to do so, but the card itself costs $15, so they'd be losing $5 plus the $10 fee they can charge.
You're right... it's $15, I mis-remembered.

Hmm... so if they're offering I guess I should get a "renewal"? :D

In all likelihood, my current card will expire about 3 weeks before my next handgun purchase anyways.

de1911
07-26-2011, 9:00 PM
HSC is only required for transfers, correct?

If a personal importer (new resident) doesn't need one I don't see how one could be required for lending one.

Cokebottle
07-26-2011, 9:29 PM
HSC is only required for transfers, correct?

If a personal importer (new resident) doesn't need one I don't see how one could be required for lending one.
Transfers and loans.
Not required if the owner is in the immediate presence.

Enforceable? Of course not.

The personal importer is a different situation. The guns are already in your possession and you are simply registering them in California. They are not being transferred to you.
Per Librarian's post, the law states that a "permit" shall not be required for possession.

One of the few gun laws that makes a small bit of sense.