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SVT-40
06-10-2011, 10:09 PM
Last week I got a call from a deputy DA. I testified for her as an expert in a firearms case around seven years ago. She kept my business card, and cell number.

She had a firearms question.

She had a case where a suspect had been arrested on a DV case. At the time of his arrest three firearms had been taken for safe keeping. The DDA had a question as to the "assault rifle" which was one of the firearms taken. Apparently the DA's office was not going to file on the DV allegations and wanted to know whether to file charges related to the "assault rifle".

She wanted to know if the rifle fell under the assault rifle prohibitions. She could only tell me it was a "AR-16 YMH":rolleyes:

I told her that the receiver was not a listed assault rifle, however without actually seeing the rifle there would be no way to tell if it was configured in a legal or illegal way.

She said the rifle was still in police custody, and I offered to go to the PD and inspect it for her if she would arrange it.

Long story short she arranged the inspection and last Thursday I went to the station and inspected the rifle.

It was a legally configured rifle with a properly installed and functioning "bullet button".

So no charges will be filed, and the rifles owner can apply for a LEGR and get his firearms back.



In addition while at the police station I talked at length with the property clerk and the Lt. in charge of the investigations division. I supplied both with copies of the Calguns AW flow chart, as well as the web site info.

Both were impressed with the flow chart, and said it will definitely help them. The property clerk was very new, and asked if she could call me with any firearms questions. I told her of course as I still get calls from my old department.

I also offered to provide a class for the detectives as to current laws regarding "assault weapons". Including bringing examples of legally configured rifles as training aids. The Detective LT was very receptive. So hopefully that will come to fruition.

One small step.....

bob7122
06-10-2011, 10:13 PM
yes good luck! that is a big victory!

ChrisTKHarris
06-10-2011, 10:15 PM
Awesome!

TRICKSTER
06-10-2011, 11:03 PM
I am so disappointed. I don't believe that the BB wasn't removed by the PD just so they could charge the guy.
You should post this on OT and see what happens. I bet it will get a minimum of 5 pages.

On a serious note, good job on educating the DDA and PD.

Notorious
06-10-2011, 11:31 PM
Glad to hear that things were done properly and all's well that ends well.

69Mach1
06-11-2011, 5:52 AM
Outstanding.

rrr70
06-11-2011, 6:09 AM
It's sad that people who make it ther job to uphold the law, have no effing idea what's the law is.

Us3rName
06-11-2011, 6:37 AM
great news! kudos

Ronco
06-11-2011, 6:43 AM
Great job.

I hope more education opportunities come out of this.

pieeater
06-11-2011, 6:48 AM
It's sad that people who make it ther job to uphold the law, have no effing idea what's the law is.

Maybe because there are 20 million laws? I'm a general Contractor been in construction for 30 years. I'm an expert in some phases of it, but there is no way in the world anyone could learn all of it.

rrr70
06-11-2011, 7:03 AM
Maybe because there are 20 million laws? I'm a general Contractor been in construction for 30 years. I'm an expert in some phases of it, but there is no way in the world anyone could learn all of it.

Ruining someones life because of ignorance, is not an excuse.

r3dn3ck
06-11-2011, 7:15 AM
You expect them to know the laws they enforce, not to know them all. If you're a cop and going to hassle someone, at least know the relevant sections of law. I for one really appreciate the effort SVT-40 went through. He didn't mention being paid for his recently rendered services but regardless of that, he did us all a huge service and I thank him for it. Think about the great day the guy with the AR will have when he's allowed to have it back and doesn't do any jail time for no good reason.

pieeater
06-11-2011, 7:22 AM
Your reading comprehension is worse than your manners. The deputy DA is not an expert on bullet buttons and monster man grips and 80% homebuilds etc so called somebody who was. Much like I do in my line of work and everyone else in the world when they run across something they are unsure about . Except for you of course, must be nice to know everything!

Ruining someones life because of ignorance, is not an excuse.

Manolito
06-11-2011, 7:26 AM
I am guessing after reading your post you did this without compensation. It is humbling to know that people still exist that are willing to share their life long learning on a subject. Just think of the peoples lives you may have made better by the officers having the flow chart and being educated in a fair and honest manner.
Many thanks and if you decide to do a video of your course please let me know so I can purchase a copy.
Respectfully,
Bill

daveinwoodland
06-11-2011, 7:30 AM
Hopefully you'll get some compensation? That's allot to offer gratis.

Sheepdog1968
06-11-2011, 7:30 AM
Thank you for taking the time to educate folks. I am willing to follow the firearm laws in CA. Typically, my only worry is whether or not I will end up having an encounter with someone who is unfamiliar with the laws resulting in time and expense on my part. Having said that, I've never had an issue in the 30+ years I've been shooting. LEOs have always been polite and cordial on the few times I've been pulled over. Only once did I have firearms on me. The officer asked a few questions and I was on my way in 10 min or less.

rrr70
06-11-2011, 7:31 AM
Your reading comprehension is worse than your manners. The deputy DA is not an expert on bullet buttons and monster man grips and 80% homebuilds etc so called somebody who was. Much like I do in my line of work and everyone else in the world when they run across something they are unsure about . Except for you of course, must be nice to know everything!

So it's ok to mess up someone's life if you acted "in good faith"?
Defensive much?

Patrick Aherne
06-11-2011, 7:41 AM
Rrr70- no one's life was messed up. The guns will be returned and the owner will not be prosecuted. Get a life.

Deucer
06-11-2011, 8:00 AM
I don't like where this discussion seems to be headed. It would be nice to focus on the positives here.

Good work by both you and the DA.

rrr70
06-11-2011, 8:11 AM
Rrr70- no one's life was messed up. The guns will be returned and the owner will not be prosecuted. Get a life.
Tell this to the owner. Tell this to other people who had to jump trough the hurdles of our legal system, loose money, time and being emotionaly distressed. No biggie, right?
"Get a life"? I have a response that I usually give people who say this to me, but I enjoy CGN to much to get banned for BS like this. I hope you get my drift, friend.

MaHoTex
06-11-2011, 8:12 AM
She wanted to know if the rifle fell under the assault rifle prohibitions. She could only tell me it was a "AR-16 YMH":rolleyes:

I told her that the receiver was not a listed assault rifle, however without actually seeing the rifle there would be no way to tell if it was configured in a legal or illegal way.

She said the rifle was still in police custody, and I offered to go to the PD and inspect it for her if she would arrange it.

Long story short she arranged the inspection and last Thursday I went to the station and inspected the rifle.

It was a legally configured rifle with a properly installed and functioning "bullet button".

So no charges will be filed, and the rifles owner can apply for a LEGR and get his firearms back.

Great news SVT. Thanks for your efforts!

Call_me_Tom
06-11-2011, 8:19 AM
Good job!

Falconis
06-11-2011, 8:21 AM
I wasn't talking about this case.



"Get a life"? I have a response that I usually give people who say this to me, but I enjoy CGN to much to get banned for BS like this. I hope you get my drift, friend.

Seriously get a life. You're obviously exhibiting anger over other stuff that has nothing to do with this case. You expect a heart surgeon to know everything there is about brain surgery? How about a tax lawyer to defend you in a divorce? We get it, you don't like cops. Like the rules above state, go tell someone on another forum your displeasure.

rrr70
06-11-2011, 8:26 AM
Seriously get a life. You're obviously exhibiting anger over other stuff that has nothing to do with this case. You expect a heart surgeon to know everything there is about brain surgery? How about a tax lawyer to defend you in a divorce? We get it, you don't like cops. Like the rules above state, go tell someone on another forum your displeasure.

No, you don't get it. I do like cops and I do respect them. What I do not like is when you say it is OK to not know the law.

Matt C
06-11-2011, 8:31 AM
Tell this to the owner. Tell this to other people who had to jump trough the hurdles of our legal system, loose money, time and being emotionaly distressed. No biggie, right?
"Get a life"? I have a response that I usually give people who say this to me, but I enjoy CGN to much to get banned for BS like this. I hope you get my drift, friend.

Has it happened to you? And in any case, what are you doing to help solve these issues? Other than throwing mud around on the internet, in a thread where someone who actually did something other than ***** online. The OP accomplished something and made the system work, educated some key players and made some great contacts. All you did was troll.

MrClamperSir
06-11-2011, 8:37 AM
No, you don't get it. I do like cops and I do respect them. What I do not like is when you say it is OK to not know the law.

It is impossible to know every law, EVEN FOR LAWYERS!

Now, please stop thread crapping and move along.

To the OP, I enjoyed reading your post and it is much appreciated.

vintagearms
06-11-2011, 8:42 AM
Good job!

TRICKSTER
06-11-2011, 8:46 AM
I was joking about posting this on OT, It looks like OT came here instead. :eek:

GooseGun
06-11-2011, 8:55 AM
Proof that no matter how much good you do, there will always be cynics that will criticize you. One thing I've learned is to ignore the critics and keep doing what you thing is right.

Congrats SVT-40, the best part is that the clerk and assistant DA actually asked for help and didn't arrogantly assume they knew the rules.

A truly intelligent person realizes not how much they know, but how much they dont know!

Keep up the good work!

MaHoTex
06-11-2011, 9:21 AM
Proof that no matter how much good you do, there will always be cynics that will criticize you. One thing I've learned is to ignore the critics and keep doing what you thing is right.

Congrats SVT-40, the best part is that the clerk and assistant DA actually asked for help and didn't arrogantly assume they knew the rules.

A truly intelligent person realizes not how much they know, but how much they dont know!

Keep up the good work!

Yeah, I don't get it. I think all of the LEOs here are the good guys wanting the same thing everyone else wants. When someone goes above and beyond, such as displayed by SVT here, there is always the naysayers that come out and point out negatives. We need more LEO to help educate, explain and teach. I, for one, am very happy to see the DA reach out and ask for help in determining the AW status because they did not know. While it is not perfect since the person referenced in the OP had a weapon taken, this is a HUGE step in the right direction. Without the efforts of those like SVT has exhibited in this example, it is a losing battle.

Again... Thanks for your efforts SVT. :thumbsup:

GrizzlyGuy
06-11-2011, 9:25 AM
Wow, excellent work!

:patriot:

MrClamperSir
06-11-2011, 9:33 AM
Yeah, I don't get it. I think all of the LEOs here are the good guys wanting the same thing everyone else wants. When someone goes above and beyond, such as displayed by SVT here, there is always the naysayers that come out and point out negatives. We need more LEO to help educate, explain and teach. I, for one, am very happy to see the DA reach out and ask for help in determining the AW status because they did not know. While it is not perfect since the person referenced in the OP had a weapon taken, this is a HUGE step in the right direction. Without the efforts of those like SVT has exhibited in this example, it is a losing battle.

Again... Thanks for your efforts SVT. :thumbsup:

Exactly right.

A DA who comes across a case that is foreign territory should seek out all the necessary help. In this case it's apparent the DA was not used to prosecuting AW's and so they reached out. This is the way it should be and definitely cause to celebrate.

battleship
06-11-2011, 9:38 AM
Yes excellent work, saved someone alot of grief and possibly alot of $$$$$$$$ trying to prove differently.

Just wondering who made the lower.

1911su16b870
06-11-2011, 10:09 AM
Great job SVT!

Patriot Man
06-11-2011, 10:11 AM
I didn't read all these reply's but have to say: YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jonathan Doe
06-11-2011, 10:21 AM
I am scheduled to testify at a court on Monday on a murder case. I am the first forensic firearms expert the DDA is having in her career. It will be an interesting case. I will go in early to have a conference with her.

A few months ago, I was the defense attorney's first firearms expert witness. She did a good job, and I complimented her after when I finished my testimony.

fullrearview
06-11-2011, 10:43 AM
Last week I got a call from a deputy DA. I testified for her as an expert in a firearms case around seven years ago. She kept my business card, and cell number.

She had a firearms question.

She had a case where a suspect had been arrested on a DV case. At the time of his arrest three firearms had been taken for safe keeping. The DDA had a question as to the "assault rifle" which was one of the firearms taken. Apparently the DA's office was not going to file on the DV allegations and wanted to know whether to file charges related to the "assault rifle".

She wanted to know if the rifle fell under the assault rifle prohibitions. She could only tell me it was a "AR-16 YMH":rolleyes:

I told her that the receiver was not a listed assault rifle, however without actually seeing the rifle there would be no way to tell if it was configured in a legal or illegal way.

She said the rifle was still in police custody, and I offered to go to the PD and inspect it for her if she would arrange it.

Long story short she arranged the inspection and last Thursday I went to the station and inspected the rifle.

It was a legally configured rifle with a properly installed and functioning "bullet button".

So no charges will be filed, and the rifles owner can apply for a LEGR and get his firearms back.



In addition while at the police station I talked at length with the property clerk and the Lt. in charge of the investigations division. I supplied both with copies of the Calguns AW flow chart, as well as the web site info.

Both were impressed with the flow chart, and said it will definitely help them. The property clerk was very new, and asked if she could call me with any firearms questions. I told her of course as I still get calls from my old department.

I also offered to provide a class for the detectives as to current laws regarding "assault weapons". Including bringing examples of legally configured rifles as training aids. The Detective LT was very receptive. So hopefully that will come to fruition.

One small step.....

Good work brother! Though MANY people here are quick to jump to conclusions about our profession and those who are in it, they hardly comment on our little actions behind the scenes that make a ton of difference, like this case...

Little by little.

Coded-Dude
06-11-2011, 10:48 AM
excellent read! thanks for actually going out there and making things better! my sincerest respect.

CSACANNONEER
06-11-2011, 10:56 AM
Great job SVT!

Tell this to the owner. Tell this to other people who had to jump trough the hurdles of our legal system, loose money, time and being emotionaly distressed. No biggie, right?
"Get a life"? I have a response that I usually give people who say this to me, but I enjoy CGN to much to get banned for BS like this. I hope you get my drift, friend.


You really need to take "basic reading comprehension 101". I would gladly tell the owner that neither the LEA nor the DA's office did a single thing to surpress his rights. If you were able to read and comprehend the original post, you would have realixed that the guns were taken for safe keeping due to a DV situation. This is the law and one that rational people understand. As far as the LEA and the DDA go, they did not do anything improper. They questioned the legality of the firearm in question, sought out an expert to answer their questions and accepted their experts analysis and RETURNED the rifle to the one time SUSPECT. Everyone in this case (but you) has acted in a mature and resposible manner and resolved all legal issues. I have to agree with others here, you really need to get a life and think a little bit before posting such irrational rants.

FF/EMT Nick
06-11-2011, 11:27 AM
Last week I got a call from a deputy DA. I testified for her as an expert in a firearms case around seven years ago. She kept my business card, and cell number.

She had a firearms question.

She had a case where a suspect had been arrested on a DV case. At the time of his arrest three firearms had been taken for safe keeping. The DDA had a question as to the "assault rifle" which was one of the firearms taken. Apparently the DA's office was not going to file on the DV allegations and wanted to know whether to file charges related to the "assault rifle".

She wanted to know if the rifle fell under the assault rifle prohibitions. She could only tell me it was a "AR-16 YMH":rolleyes:

I told her that the receiver was not a listed assault rifle, however without actually seeing the rifle there would be no way to tell if it was configured in a legal or illegal way.

She said the rifle was still in police custody, and I offered to go to the PD and inspect it for her if she would arrange it.

Long story short she arranged the inspection and last Thursday I went to the station and inspected the rifle.

It was a legally configured rifle with a properly installed and functioning "bullet button".

So no charges will be filed, and the rifles owner can apply for a LEGR and get his firearms back.



In addition while at the police station I talked at length with the property clerk and the Lt. in charge of the investigations division. I supplied both with copies of the Calguns AW flow chart, as well as the web site info.

Both were impressed with the flow chart, and said it will definitely help them. The property clerk was very new, and asked if she could call me with any firearms questions. I told her of course as I still get calls from my old department.

I also offered to provide a class for the detectives as to current laws regarding "assault weapons". Including bringing examples of legally configured rifles as training aids. The Detective LT was very receptive. So hopefully that will come to fruition.

One small step.....

SVT-40,

You and I have bumped heads in a couple of different threads. We don't see eye to eye on several different topics. I am sure that we will bump heads in the future as well. Having said that, I will say this.

OUT-F@%KING-STANDING JOB OFFICER!!!

When an LEO, I believe a retired one at that, goes out of his way to make sure that an innocent man does not pay a price for something that wasn't illegal to begin with, then there is hope for this state yet!

You Sir, are a credit to LEO's everywhere, and your actions and offers to train in this matter prove it. I wish to personally thank you for your efforts in this matter. You did a service, not only to that paticular defendant, but to California gun owners all over the state!

Thank you, and strong work, Sir!

SVT-40
06-11-2011, 11:50 AM
It's sad that people who make it ther job to uphold the law, have no effing idea what's the law is.


No it would have been "sad" if the DDA would have just gone forward and charged the guy. No one can know every law. She was intelligent enough to know what she did not know.

Asking questions and obtaining the correct information before making decisions is a sign of competence. Unlike some here who just assume.

Ruining someones life because of ignorance, is not an excuse.

No ones life was "ruined". :rolleyes:

The suspect deserved to get arrested (I looked at the report). He is very lucky he did not get charged. Again the DDA was very lenient with him.

Boo_Radley
06-11-2011, 12:01 PM
Good on ya, sir. Baby steps...

SVT-40
06-11-2011, 12:01 PM
The DDA is a good gal. She also knows my wife, and worked with her while my wife was in Investigations. (she handled all the child/elder abuse, sex crimes and DV cases) So I was glad to help.

Hopefully you'll get some compensation? That's allot to offer gratis.



The only cost to me was gas. Heck I get my PERS retirement so in effect I'm still on the payroll in a way.....

Maybe I should ask for a raise.....:eek:

MP301
06-11-2011, 1:36 PM
Love it SVT. Nice to see that retirement has not slowed your roll! Still fighting the good fight...

Doheny
06-11-2011, 4:04 PM
Last week I got a call from a deputy DA. I testified for her as an expert in a firearms case around seven years ago. She kept my business card, and cell number.

You should hang your shingle and start charging for your services!

SVT-40
06-11-2011, 4:05 PM
I am scheduled to testify at a court on Monday on a murder case. I am the first forensic firearms expert the DDA is having in her career. It will be an interesting case. I will go in early to have a conference with her.

A few months ago, I was the defense attorney's first firearms expert witness. She did a good job, and I complimented her after when I finished my testimony.

I remember the first time I testified as a firearms expert. It was in relation to a case about a parolee with a NHM-91 rifle. During Voir dire the defense was asking about my qualifications.

So I started in about all the different types of AK rifles including the different rivet patterns, chrome lined barrels ect ect ect. I was just going on on on. The defense attorney. Just stood there with a stupid look on his face dumbfounded. The judge leaned over to me and said with a smile. "Thats fine officer, I think you qualify"....

About a year later I was in the same judges court on a totally different matter. Just before I was to testify the judge leaned over to me and said. "I remember you, you were the gun guy".:D

Anchors
06-11-2011, 6:37 PM
Thanks SVT!

I am scheduled to testify at a court on Monday on a murder case. I am the first forensic firearms expert the DDA is having in her career. It will be an interesting case. I will go in early to have a conference with her.

A few months ago, I was the defense attorney's first firearms expert witness. She did a good job, and I complimented her after when I finished my testimony.

Keep us updated.
Your stories (the old ones you can talk about that aren't currently litigated) are always good.

ankyle62
06-11-2011, 7:05 PM
Good to hear about a DA going out of their way to get the laws right before slinging charges. Good work on OP's part too.

epilepticninja
06-11-2011, 10:45 PM
Thanks SVT for giving the educational lesson, and ensuring that the individual did not get needlessly charged. The more individuals out there, especially those that work in law enforcement, that understand the AW laws, the better it is for all of us.

Jonathan Doe
06-11-2011, 11:04 PM
Thanks SVT!



Keep us updated.
Your stories (the old ones you can talk about that aren't currently litigated) are always good.

I testified at the LAX court couple of years ago on a double murder case. I had the flu at the time and felt pretty sick. The defense attorney did a good case prep and challenged me a lot. I ended up spending about 5 hours on the stand. A week later, the case detective came by my office and told me that the defendent was found guilty for 2 counts of first degree murder with special allegation. And, he told me that the defense attorney cried when the verdict was read. The detective told me that the attorney sure thought she would prevail and win the case.

I kind had a feeling that I did a good job when some jurors smiled at me and gave me thumbs up as I was leaving the stand. :)

Anchors
06-12-2011, 3:05 AM
I testified at the LAX court couple of years ago on a double murder case. I had the flu at the time and felt pretty sick. The defense attorney did a good case prep and challenged me a lot. I ended up spending about 5 hours on the stand. A week later, the case detective came by my office and told me that the defendent was found guilty for 2 counts of first degree murder with special allegation. And, he told me that the defense attorney cried when the verdict was read. The detective told me that the attorney sure thought she would prevail and win the case.

I kind had a feeling that I did a good job when some jurors smiled at me and gave me thumbs up as I was leaving the stand. :)

Haha nice.
It is amazing how taboo firearms are to most people, even those who deal with them all the time (criminal defense attorneys, for example).
I can't decide whether I'm glad we have an expert like you on the side of justice or sad that they need an expert to explain how a bullet button works and interacts with the relevant Penal Code.
At least you and SVT are keeping the honest folks out of jail when you get the chance.

Roddd
06-12-2011, 4:02 AM
I think some of us are being too hard on the DA's Office here. Doesn't their lack of knowledge on AW laws show it's not something they routinely prosecute? The DDA did not know something, so she spoke with a quality expert. I hardly think her lack of bullet button knowledge is grounds for dismissal. She didn't have an answer, went to a certified wealth of information on the matter, and obtained it. Job well done. Am I the only one that sees a wife beater getting his guns back a real issue here? I guarantee LE will be back at that residence in due time for another DV issue. I can't tell you how many addresses in my area I know that are domestic violence hotbeds. Just my .02

Roddd
06-12-2011, 4:05 AM
I think some of us are being too hard on the DA's Office here. Doesn't their lack of knowledge on AW laws show it's not something they routinely prosecute? The DDA did not know something, so she spoke with a qualified expert. I hardly think her lack of bullet button knowledge is grounds for dismissal. She didn't have an answer, went to a certified wealth of information on the matter, and obtained it. Job well done. Am I the only one that sees a wife beater getting his guns back a real issue here? I guarantee LE will be back at that residence in due time for another DV issue. I can't tell you how many addresses in my area I know that are domestic violence hotbeds. Just my .02

geeknow
06-12-2011, 4:51 AM
Good work SVT. Hope the guys LEGR goes smoothly.

760knox
06-12-2011, 5:25 AM
Allllll Right!

yzernie
06-12-2011, 6:33 AM
Justice prevailed...good job SVT!!

Jonathan Doe
06-12-2011, 10:07 PM
I believe that it is a good thing to have firearms experts. That way, if there is ANY doubt, we can clarify the things. Whether the opinion goes toward the conviction or dismissal, it is not important to me. I just provide the facts.

five.five-six
06-12-2011, 10:28 PM
thank you SVT, good work. you probably just saved a lot of innocent people a lot of heartache for years to come


now, if she calls you about no-knock warrants, we should talk first :)

LHC30
06-13-2011, 8:52 AM
Good Job SVT!

Since DA's and PD's get a bad rap (mostly justified) here, could you give the county the DA was in and the PD name to balance some of the other posts?

RedFord150
06-13-2011, 9:13 AM
It's sad that people who make it ther job to uphold the law, have no effing idea what's the law is.

Keep in mind that the DA only gets to file charges. The defendant gets to hire his own lawyer to defend himself at trial. If he cannot afford a lawyer, he gets a Public defender at no cost.
If the DA screws up, the Defense Attorney gets to show the court what the law actually says.
This could happen at the arraignment or before A Grand Jury and the court could refuse to indict on any wrongly filed charges.

RedFord150
06-13-2011, 9:16 AM
Last week I got a call from a deputy DA. ...I also offered to provide a class for the detectives as to current laws regarding "assault weapons". Including bringing examples of legally configured rifles as training aids. The Detective LT was very receptive. So hopefully that will come to fruition.

One small step.....

Great work, SVT-40. It is nice to see you are 'giving back' in your retirement. No doubt in my mind, you are one of the good guys.

chiselchst
06-13-2011, 7:43 PM
I don't like where this discussion seems to be headed. It would be nice to focus on the positives here.

Good work by both you and the DA.

Ditto for me...

Thanks for helping to educate LE! Nice the DA didn't file charges, and sought input for clarification... :D

five.five-six
06-13-2011, 7:46 PM
If he cannot afford a lawyer, he gets a Public defender pretender at no cost.


FTFY, considering taxes, defendant is actually paying for enforcement, prosecution and defense

RedFord150
06-14-2011, 9:47 AM
FTFY, considering taxes, defendant is actually paying for enforcement, prosecution and defense

I guess it's a lot like those 'Free' tow trucks on the freeway. After you figure out how much extra sales tax you pay, they are quite expensive. Well, for those of us who actually pay taxes, they are quite expensive. I doubt the Gangbangers I see paraded through the criminal Courthouse are paying much.