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Squidward
12-17-2006, 10:10 AM
I am getting conlicting information on hi-cap (or whatever the correct term is for over 10 round) centerfire ammo mags.

Are they or are they not now legal for us to buy in CA?

vrejshah209
12-17-2006, 10:18 AM
....

69Mach1
12-17-2006, 10:22 AM
1. If you had them prior to 2000 when the CA high capacity magazine ban took place, then they are OK to own and use.

2. It is illegal to import into CA a complete magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

3. It is OK to import magazine parts (including high cap mag bodies) to repair previously owned high capacity magazines only.

Squidward
12-17-2006, 2:57 PM
Thank you, both

blkA4alb
12-17-2006, 3:06 PM
NO... to buy, trade, find, build, give away, wish for for X-mas....ALL NOT LEGAL since 1/1/2000. 10 round in any and all guns is what we are limited to in CA. :mad:
sorry to brake it to you, good luck

by the way NO to all mags center or rimfire.
Buying high capacity magazines is not outlawed, neither is finding them.

M. Sage
12-17-2006, 3:48 PM
2. It is illegal to import into CA a complete magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.

You forgot "cause to be imported, sell, offer for sale, loan/lend, and manufacture."

xenophobe
12-17-2006, 4:41 PM
Buying high capacity magazines is not outlawed, neither is finding them.

Taking possession of a high capacity magazine that was not owned prior to Jan 1, 2000 is against the law.

M. Sage
12-17-2006, 5:23 PM
Umm, posession isn't here:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12020-12040.html
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.

Can't import it, or have it imported, can't sell it (or try to, or plan to), can't give it away, can't lend it.

Matt C
12-17-2006, 5:31 PM
Taking possession of a high capacity magazine that was not owned prior to Jan 1, 2000 is against the law.

That's just not true, nowhere in the law does does it prohibit taking posession of a high cap mag.

blkA4alb
12-17-2006, 5:32 PM
Taking possession of a high capacity magazine that was not owned prior to Jan 1, 2000 is against the law.
As the others have said, taking possession is not listed as being illegal ;) .

Tzvia
12-17-2006, 8:01 PM
BUT since no one can sell or give it to you, you would have to be walking in the desert with your metal detector, looking for meterorites when you stumble on someones buried cache... I guess you can then 'take posession'...

DedEye
12-17-2006, 8:25 PM
Not my fault if someone else breaks the law to sell me something that I can legally buy :p.

Just joking of course.

Matt C
12-17-2006, 8:31 PM
Here is a question: if I buy a pistol from out of state, and the seller sends me highcap mags without my asking for them, have I done anything wrong? Can I keep them?

Since they would not have been imported if I did not buy the gun, did I "cause" them to be imported?

SemiAutoSam
12-17-2006, 8:35 PM
The funny thing about all of this magazine BS is lets say the seller (Like you said BWOPS) sends you the mags or drops them at his table at the gun show. barring that the show was in the PRC the seller isn't bound by California law unless the seller is in California.

You just found the mags in the box when it was opened or found them on the sellers table at the show and then picked them up.



Here is a question: if I buy a pistol from out of state, and the seller sends me highcap mags without my asking for them, have I done anything wrong? Can I keep them?

Since they would not have been imported if I did not buy the gun, did I "cause" them to be imported?

Prc329
12-17-2006, 9:12 PM
Now I know this is far fetched but here I go.

Say I went to Arizona to visit a family friend. We go shooting for the day and I take him home and head back to Kali. Once I get home and clean out my truck I find a couple of high cap mags that must have fell out of my friends bag.

Did I just break the law?

hoffmang
12-17-2006, 9:18 PM
Prc,

In your hypothetical, you would break the law by importing them in your truck.

-Gene

xenophobe
12-17-2006, 10:41 PM
Umm, posession isn't here:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12020-12040.html


Can't import it, or have it imported, can't sell it (or try to, or plan to), can't give it away, can't lend it.

I'm sorry, you need to quote the whole law.

Why is purchasing high-capacity mags specifically exempted for these following reasons if purchasing them after Jan 1, 2000 is still legal.

Why does it state that you are allowed to purchase high-capacity mags if you have valid permits.

The law as written is enough to prosecute. You would probably lose. Appeal? If they are even willing to hear the case.


12020. (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.
(21) The sale or purchase of any large-capacity magazine to or by a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(27) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws of this state.
(32) The purchase of a large-capacity magazine by the holder of a special weapons permit issued pursuant to Section 12095, 12230, 12250, 12286, or 12305, for any of the following purposes:
(A) For use solely as a prop for a motion picture, television, or video production.
(B) For export pursuant to federal regulations.
(C) For resale to law enforcement agencies, government agencies, or the military, pursuant to applicable federal regulations.

hoffmang
12-18-2006, 12:27 AM
Xeno,

It may have been a drafting mistake, but there is actually no ban on purchasing large capacity magazines. There are certainly exceptions to the restriction on selling large capacity magazines for the folks above, but obtain, purchase, or acquire are not banned - only selling giving or loaning.

-Gene

Matt C
12-18-2006, 12:36 AM
I'm sorry, you need to quote the whole law.

Why is purchasing high-capacity mags specifically exempted for these following reasons if purchasing them after Jan 1, 2000 is still legal.

Why does it state that you are allowed to purchase high-capacity mags if you have valid permits.

The law as written is enough to prosecute. You would probably lose. Appeal? If they are even willing to hear the case.

It does not matter what the exemptions are, if there was something in the penal code that stated certain people were exempted from any laws prohibiting people from growing roses in their backyards, does that mean it would automatically illegal for anyone else to do it?

The fact is there is NOTHING in the penal code that states it is illegal to buy or own a high-cap mag.

Why is there an exemption written for something that is not illegal? Because most CA legislators are IDIOTS.

paradox
12-18-2006, 5:37 AM
Dear Santa,

All I want for Christmas is a stocking full of norm-cap magazines. :D

Do you think Iggy can catch a flying sleigh?

tenpercentfirearms
12-18-2006, 5:40 AM
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.So basically anyone who buys a "large-capacity magazine" is not guilty of any crime, just the supplier. Wouldn't it be something if someone out of state just said screw it and started sending them in like crazy and dared CA to come after them? Better yet, if about 1000 people started doing it? Mass civil disobedience. Of course I would never advocate such a thing as I am sitting here with my high cap mag permit so I can sell to law enforcement. :mad:

hoffmang
12-18-2006, 7:40 PM
Ten,

The problem with the out of state seller is that it is quite clear that its illegal to import. I'd need to do more reading than I have time for tonight to figure out if the seller, the buyer, or both are the importers in this context.

Now, it is a darn interesting question if the seller could really be charged. Magazines are not firearms and Magazines were not delegated to the states. They remain a stable article of commerce. If DOJ persued an out of state seller, what crime would they charge? A violation of California law in Arizona? That violates all sorts of sovereign immunity issues... Its not a violation of Federal Firearms law... This is kind of like state sales tax but... Also note that Fedex and UPS are exempted from these sorts of laws by Federal law...

Anybody know anyone out of state with Cajones?

It may be time to write a letter to DOJ... Damn Wes, I think you're onto something.

-Gene

DedEye
12-18-2006, 7:45 PM
So basically anyone who buys a "large-capacity magazine" is not guilty of any crime, just the supplier. Wouldn't it be something if someone out of state just said screw it and started sending them in like crazy and dared CA to come after them? Better yet, if about 1000 people started doing it? Mass civil disobedience. Of course I would never advocate such a thing as I am sitting here with my high cap mag permit so I can sell to law enforcement. :mad:

Here's hoping someone does it. I'd never break the law and import magazines with 10+ round capacity, but I don't see the problem buying from someone who did ;).

xenophobe
12-18-2006, 8:11 PM
Telling people that it's legal to buy high capacity magazines is just misguided and will get someone in trouble.

Hiding a dead body isn't illegal if you don't murder them, right? :rolleyes:

hoffmang
12-18-2006, 8:15 PM
Xeno,

And telling people to buy a STAG-15 18 months ago was something that would just get someone in trouble.

There is one issue I need to research, but I may be able to throw another log on to the interesting January.

-Gene

blkA4alb
12-18-2006, 8:16 PM
Xeno,

And telling people to buy a STAG-15 18 months ago was something that would just get someone in trouble.

There is one issue I need to research, but I may be able to throw another log on to the interesting January.

-Gene
You beat me to it!