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Solidsnake87
12-16-2006, 6:50 PM
I'm a college student so when it comes to ammo I really enjoy more bang for my buck. I put wolf through all my AKs and ARs. I did, however, put a lot of money into my SPR with a 24" DPMS match bull barrel and was wondering if its performing as expected with wolf. I have it zeroed pretty well. Using wolf .223, I generally get 3 inch groupings at 100 yards. The shots tend to be anything from a perfect shot (rare) to being within 2 inches of dead center. Occasionally i'll get a bad round that lands 4 inches from center but the bad rounds are pretty obvious. I was wondering if this is normal for wolf users and if changing ammo will make a dramatic difference? I'm going to continue shooting wolf till I'm done with school but It would be nice to know that I can be better at hitting my intended targets by just an ammo change. What kind of results do you get with wolf .223? Can anybody provide pictures of .223 groupings shot from zeroed rifles?

Thanks all!

xenophobe
12-16-2006, 7:01 PM
I don't shoot wolf.

Last time I was at the range, I was shooting my S&W M&P-15T. Basically a government profile chrome lined 1/9 twist 16" barrel. With my 4x Elcan, I put 40 round of Black Hills 73gr Berger Factory Seconds into a 2" oval hole about 1" high at 100 yards. I was not shooting for accuracy, just for fun.

I would expect that your 24" match barrel should get 10 shot groups about the size of a nickel at 100y with a 10x scope, with decent match quality ammunition of course.

cornholio1
12-16-2006, 7:05 PM
I get around a 1.5" through a 16" barrel. 7.62x39AR. Big Jon used it and can hit about a 4" steel plate at 250 yards the first time with a cheapo scope.

M. Sage
12-16-2006, 7:11 PM
Heh, 3" groups are about what I get at 100 yards with my 91/30 with '50s surplus ammo.

Solidsnake87
12-16-2006, 7:15 PM
Thats nice guys. I was asking about wolf ammo. Please this thread is for wolf .223 only.

HKROB
12-16-2006, 7:16 PM
I'm a college student so when it comes to ammo I really enjoy more bang for my buck. I put wolf through all my AKs and ARs. I did, however, put a lot of money into my SPR with a 24" DPMS match bull barrel and was wondering if its performing as expected with wolf. I have it zeroed pretty well. Using wolf .223, I generally get 3 inch groupings at 100 yards. The shots tend to be anything from a perfect shot (rare) to being within 2 inches of dead center. Occasionally i'll get a bad round that lands 4 inches from center but the bad rounds are pretty obvious. I was wondering if this is normal for wolf users and if changing ammo will make a dramatic difference? I'm going to continue shooting wolf till I'm done with school but It would be nice to know that I can be better at hitting my intended targets by just an ammo change. What kind of results do you get with wolf .223? Can anybody provide pictures of .223 groupings shot from zeroed rifles?

Thanks all!
I shoot wolf in my SKS I get 3.5" groups.But I will not shoot wolf in my AR its a waste of money if you are trying to shoot tight groups on paper.You might want to try some of this.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/67962-6524-68.html
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM223-46090-66.html

Mike 56
12-16-2006, 7:30 PM
My Mini shot 5 inch groups a 50yd with wolf. To find out what rifle likes buy a box of every kind of 223 you can find. My Mini likes American Eagle 50gr FBHP i get 2inch groups at 100yds. The 45gr Winchester from Wall-Mart and 62gr surplus all so shot well. I now shoot MOA with mods and hand loads. You just have to find what ammo your rifle likes. Mike

xenophobe
12-16-2006, 7:47 PM
Thats nice guys. I was asking about wolf ammo. Please this thread is for wolf .223 only.

No, you were not just asking about wolf ammo and you asked....

I was wondering if this is normal for wolf users and if changing ammo will make a dramatic difference? I'm going to continue shooting wolf till I'm done with school but It would be nice to know that I can be better at hitting my intended targets by just an ammo change.

Yes, it will.

Solidsnake87
12-16-2006, 8:01 PM
Is there anybody out there that can discuss their rifles groupings with .223 wolf? Also, what type of rifle are u using?

ahead
12-16-2006, 9:30 PM
everyone has implied it but no one has come out and directly said it, so ill go ahead and do it. the reason why your getting the grouping your getting is because of the ammo you choose to shoot. if you shoot higher quality ammo you will notice your groups will get much much tighter.

i dont shoot .223, so im not sure of it (maybe someone can help you out) but theres probably some surplus ammo out there that is either the same price or a little more expensive than wolf but will give you better accuracy out of your AR.

Solidsnake87
12-16-2006, 9:54 PM
everyone has implied it but no one has come out and directly said it, so ill go ahead and do it. the reason why your getting the grouping your getting is because of the ammo you choose to shoot. if you shoot higher quality ammo you will notice your groups will get much much tighter

I know that I shoot the cheap stuff. I admitted it. I started this thread to see if others have similar performance. Thats why i've been asking for groupings

xenophobe
12-16-2006, 10:05 PM
everyone has implied it but no one has come out and directly said it, so ill go ahead and do it. the reason why your getting the grouping your getting is because of the ammo you choose to shoot. if you shoot higher quality ammo you will notice your groups will get much much tighter.

Since only wolf is being talked about, it also may be basic rifle marksmanship that is the problem. Wolf would not be the ideal ammo to help troubleshoot your shooting skills either, and if you're not sure how you would shoot with better ammo, then it could be anything at this point. Maybe you're anticipating the shot too much, maybe the barrel wasn't torqued to spec, etc...

ahead
12-16-2006, 10:14 PM
Since only wolf is being talked about, it also may be basic rifle marksmanship that is the problem. Wolf would not be the ideal ammo to help troubleshoot your shooting skills either, and if you're not sure how you would shoot with better ammo, then it could be anything at this point. Maybe you're anticipating the shot too much, maybe the barrel wasn't torqued to spec, etc...

i know were not answering your question directly, but were both trying to help as much as we can with never having shot wolf.

what xeno said does make allot of sense, i totally understand if you cant afford to buy 1k rounds of the good stuff (i know i cant right now) but buy a box of blackhills or hornady next time your at the gun shop to get a baseline for your rifle. seems like you spent a decent amount of money on your AR to make it pretty accurate, put some high quality rounds through it and see what it can do with the good stuff, then youll know how wolf compares.

xenophobe
12-17-2006, 12:38 AM
buy a box of blackhills or hornady next time your at the gun shop to get a baseline for your rifle. seems like you spent a decent amount of money on your AR to make it pretty accurate, put some high quality rounds through it and see what it can do with the good stuff, then youll know how wolf compares.

I meant to say that too. heh

Solidsnake87
12-17-2006, 4:39 PM
So I went out again today using American Eagle 55 grain .223. HOLY SH$%!!!!!!!!!! My best grouping was .5 inches. I averaged 1 inch groupings with the worst grouping at 1.5 inches. I'm almost tempted to buy a single box of professional ammo just to see if i can put them through the same hole. lol. Wolf is still gonna be my rifle candy for my other ARs an AKs. After all, even wolf can provide better accuracy than my 4.3 MOA trijicon reflex. I did not think a change in ammo would be sooo drastic. I knew it would help but I did not count on cutting my groups to a quarter what they were with wolf.

On a side note, we were having so much fun with the new accuracy that we drew tiny little pictures of terrorists on our targets and head shotted them. lol.

I can post pics of AE vs. Wolf groupings if anybody really wants them.

ahead
12-17-2006, 7:37 PM
So I went out again today using American Eagle 55 grain .223. HOLY SH$%!!!!!!!!!! My best grouping was .5 inches. I averaged 1 inch groupings with the worst grouping at 1.5 inches. I'm almost tempted to buy a single box of professional ammo just to see if i can put them through the same hole. lol. Wolf is still gonna be my rifle candy for my other ARs an AKs. After all, even wolf can provide better accuracy than my 4.3 MOA trijicon reflex. Thanks for the ideas. I was worried that the issue was upper related, scope related, or the fact that the weapon is semi. I did not think a change in ammo would be sooo drastic. I knew it would help but I did not count on cutting my groups to a quarter what they were with wolf.

On a side note, we were having so much fun with the new accuracy that we drew tiny little pictures of terrorists on our targets and head shotted them. lol.

I can post pics of AE vs. Wolf groupings if anybody really wants them.


post em up!

stator
12-17-2006, 7:46 PM
I'm a college student so when it comes to ammo I really enjoy more bang for my buck. I put wolf through all my AKs and ARs. I did, however, put a lot of money into my SPR with a 24" DPMS match bull barrel and was wondering if its performing as expected with wolf. I have it zeroed pretty well. Using wolf .223, I generally get 3 inch groupings at 100 yards. The shots tend to be anything from a perfect shot (rare) to being within 2 inches of dead center. Occasionally i'll get a bad round that lands 4 inches from center but the bad rounds are pretty obvious. I was wondering if this is normal for wolf users and if changing ammo will make a dramatic difference? I'm going to continue shooting wolf till I'm done with school but It would be nice to know that I can be better at hitting my intended targets by just an ammo change. What kind of results do you get with wolf .223? Can anybody provide pictures of .223 groupings shot from zeroed rifles?

Thanks all!


Flyers are normal for the standard steel case Wolfs. I average about 3 or 4 flyers per outing. Each outing is usually about 200 rounds or less. This weekend was the first time I've seen a bonafide jacket rupture too. The bullet went high/right in the 6 ring and a piece of the copper jacket went directly below in the 8 ring. I've probably had other ruptures as well, but I rarely take the Kowa, but use the range scopes at Metcalf.

If you are asking about Wolf Performance ammo (their brass catridges), I have no idea as I've never shot it.

You did not mention your hold such as benchrest, off-hand, prone, etc. That makes a big difference as to your 3" groups. If you are shooting off-hand, I'd say you are doing darn good.

If you are using benchrest, with that DPMS setup and a good quality scope and rings/mount, you should be getting 2" and less discounting flyers. Although, a faster twist rate such as 1x7 or 1x8 may explain your 3" groups if you are shooting 55gr. Wolf. I prefer to stick with 1x9 for Wolf.

This is provided that your barrel is well-cared for and the crown is in great shape.

I'd suggest you pick up a box of Sierra MatchKing cartridges and check. Make sure you match the bullet to your barrel's twist rate.

Better yet, mic your chamber and handload for that. You can handload competition-quality for what they charge Wolf ammo nowadays. Being a college student on a budget, look for other students who need to sell their press, dies, and whatnots for money. You should be able to pickup a single-stage press for nearly a song. When people upgrade their powder scales to electronic, they try to sell their balance beam scales unsuccessfully and then either box to the attic or trash. So now, that would be two songs. Dies on the other hand, people tend to keep. So you will probably have to part with some cash there as a song will not do it, IMO. Network among your shooting friends and put the word out.

PLINK
12-17-2006, 7:54 PM
If you still want to shoot cheap, check out Miwall at the guns shows or Outdoor Marksman for online. They have 55 grain .223 factory reloads for 89.95 for 500 rounds. I have no issues with this stuff at all. Accuracy seems as good as AE.

http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_63_33&products_id=16079

http://www.miwallcorp.com/schedule/

jumbopanda
12-17-2006, 8:13 PM
If you still want to shoot cheap, check out Miwall at the guns shows or Outdoor Marksman for online. They have 55 grain .223 factory reloads for 89.95 for 500 rounds. I have no issues with this stuff at all. Accuracy seems as good as AE.

http://www.outdoormarksman.com/product_info.php?cPath=65_63_33&products_id=16079

http://www.miwallcorp.com/schedule/

Out of stock.

Solidsnake87
12-17-2006, 8:28 PM
Ok, here they are. My toy and an AE 1.5 inch grouping. I'll have to look around for my wolf groupings, I'm pretty sure I threw them all away. My wolf groupings, as I said earlier were usually 3 inch circles around my intended target. The AE groupings averaged 1 inch. Either way, I was not expecting such a huge increase in accuracy.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/628/calgunsff1.jpg

Yup, thats right! I use 11.5 by 8 inch printer paper for targets! The little square, drawn with a sharpie, was my bulls eye.

My rifle is a pinned mag 24" SPR. DPMS match bull barrelled upper. Stag lower. The rest should be obvious. The extra mag is just laying there to look pretty.

xenophobe
12-17-2006, 10:27 PM
What power did you have your scope set to when shooting 100y?

Solidsnake87
12-17-2006, 10:40 PM
I use it at its maximum power of 20x.

C.G.
12-18-2006, 4:14 AM
Ok, here they are. My toy and an AE 1.5 inch grouping. I'll have to look around for my wolf groupings, I'm pretty sure I threw them all away. My wolf groupings, as I said earlier were usually 3 inch circles around my intended target. The AE groupings averaged 1 inch. Either way, I was not expecting such a huge increase in accuracy.


I did a comparison of the Wolf Performance Ammo and AE223 not long ago
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=40756&highlight=Wolf+Performance
[Sometimes a lot of questions can be answered with search)
and it came close to your evaluation. Overall I did not think too much of AE223 when XM193 was widely available but it does OK accuracy wise and it functions just fine. One further note to my review is that some of the other battlepacks functioned better, but accuracy was still the pits.

stator
12-18-2006, 9:13 AM
You still need to answer what is the twist rate of your barrel and the bullet weights you are shooting in the comparison. Without that, nobody here can be of much help. If you want match accuracy out of your rifle, you will need at least to match bullets to twist-rates.

Get yourself one of the books about accuracy the AR and competitive shooting. They usually boil down their advice to:

1- Matching bullets to twist-rates.
2- Using bullets with high ballistic coefficient (which Wolf is not).
2- Using handloads and mic'ing the chamber and matching that on the die settings.
3- Floating the barrel.
4- Use two-stage trigger.
5- Clean your barrel properly and protect the crown at all costs. If you jab your crown with a cleaning jag, you are ruining the barrel's accuracy.
6- Proper and repetitive cheek welds.



If you are shooting Wolf with a 1x9 barrel, great crown, two-stage trigger, floated barrel, and use excellent cheek welds, then 3" is probably about what your rifle can do. Try on a windless day.

My expectation is that you should be able to get Wolf down to 2" groups discounting flyers. As Xeno stated earlier, your rifle should be able to drive holes at a nickel's worth with match grade ammo. Hence the reason why I suggested that you purchase a box of Sierra MatchKing ammo and then gauge how accurate your rifle is.


BTW, my imaging software says you are shooting 1.62" groupings in that photo.

Solidsnake87
12-18-2006, 9:15 AM
Yes its a free float barrel. 1/9 twist, stainless (duh). I always shoot 55 grain.

stator
12-18-2006, 9:35 AM
Yes its a free float barrel. 1/9 twist, stainless (duh). I always shoot 55 grain.


No need for the duh part, I am trying to help you. Looking at that grouping, I will recommend two things:

1- Get a two-stage trigger.
2- Practice your cheek welds for consistency.

I noticed you have two groupings, one around the bullseye mark, and the other about 6 0'clock low. If you have a two-stage trigger, I would suspect the most likely culprit is your cheek welds.

xenophobe
12-18-2006, 5:15 PM
I use it at its maximum power of 20x.

High magnification does not = increased accuracy. And in the case of less expensive scopes, it could actually be hurting.

Set it to between 12-14x and shoot a group or two. I'd be willing to bet your accuracy increases.

20x is too powerful for 100y. You can see your heart beating, overly sensitive parallax, and on warm days, mirage problems.

Solidsnake87
12-18-2006, 6:26 PM
I use a Barska 6.5-20X by 50mm scope. The rifle weighs 17 lbs and its weight makes the thing kick slightly more than a little .22. I'm not really worried about losing zero since the scope is never violently jarred. I accidently dropped the rifle pretty hard once a while back but the zero was totoally unaffected. I hold the rifle consistently (I was a marine), however, I do shake some. The shaking is only noticable at max power and is not noticable when i'm using sandbags as a monopod. I'm sure that by using a special shooting bench I could make my groups smaller. I plan on getting the PRS soon which will be a great help for me in terms of comfort. Reguardless of what others have to say about Barska, my particular scope has crystal clear and unchanging clarity at any power level. The picture is just as clear on really bright or really dark days. Also, the center if my scope's reticle is a dot which is larger than my little square on my target, which could definitely attribute to some error. In contrast to what you said, I can guarantee I would be less accurate at lower magnifications because the dot would appear much larger against my target. My only goal with the rifle is to get 1 inch groupings or better. I'd say I've reached that but I know I could do better. I would not oppose to getting them through the same hole every time but I cannot afford the type of ammo it takes to do that and would rather get more trigger time with the more standard production ammo. I know that wolf is cheap stuff I just figured the type of rifle I was using would give me more performance from the ammo. I guess I figured wrong.

Thanks to those that gave me ammo advice, however, it is illegal to mail order ammo in Sac. I have to go to my local places that only carry AE, wolf, and winchester (horribly overpriced).

It seems as if .223 is getting more expensive as time goes on. My buddies have cases of thousands of .223s they bought at 10 cents a round shortly before the war started. I started out with winchester at 2.99 a box but then it dissappeared and the only .223s I could find anywhere were wolf.

PLINK
12-18-2006, 7:30 PM
Thanks to those that gave me ammo advice, however, it is illegal to mail order ammo in Sac.



Really? I never heard of this.

Miwall is usually at the Cal Expo or Sac Convention Center gun shows. They have pretty good prices on ammo. I think their warehouse is in Grass Valley but not sure if it is open to the public.

Wild Sports in Orangevalle often has AE .223 on sale. Check out their ad in the Sac Bee sports section on (most) Thursdays.

xenophobe
12-18-2006, 7:40 PM
In contrast to what you said, I can guarantee I would be less accurate at lower magnifications because the dot would appear much larger against my target.

Barska is crap. You didn't even know that you could shoot better with good ammo, and now you don't think I'm giving you valid advice. :rolleyes:

You need to learn how to shoot. I can put 40 rounds of .223 into a 2" hole at 100 yards with a 4 power scope, and I'm not really that great of a shot.

Magnification does NOT equal accuracy, its a figment of your imagination.

Over-magnification may equal less accuracy, especially with crap optics.

But whatever. Believe whatever you want to believe. You've been really good at that so far. :rolleyes:

NRAhighpowershooter
12-18-2006, 9:00 PM
What I can't understand for the life of me is why people buy good match type barrels ($$$) and want to shoot crap ammo (wolf) or try to find the cheapest ammo they can find to shoot through them through them. I can see this for a regular GI type barrel but not high., or semi high dollar barrels..........

but then that's my opinion.......

oh and as for magnification.. the group I posted on this topic:http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=44392&page=2

was shot with the scope dialed down to 6X

Solidsnake87
12-18-2006, 10:00 PM
Wild Sports in Orangevalle often has AE .223 on sale. Check out their ad in the Sac Bee sports section on (most) Thursdays.

Yeah, online/mail order ammo is illegal in some areas of sac. I have not been able to find specifics so I have not had the guts to order and find out. Unfortunately, the guys at wildsports seem to hate anybody under 21. They won't sell me .223 ammo because it can be used in "pistols". Another dude refused to sell me .30-06 ammo for the same reason. I dunno about you but i'd like to see a .30-06 pistol. lol.

What I can't understand for the life of me is why people buy good match type barrels ($$$) and want to shoot crap ammo (wolf) or try to find the cheapest ammo they can find to shoot through them through

I bought it so I can shoot a high end gun when I can afford the ammo. For now I'm doing just fine with the cheap stuff I can afford. A masters degree in structural engineering is pricey you know.

Barska is crap. You didn't even know that you could shoot better with good ammo, and now you don't think I'm giving you valid advice.

You need to learn how to shoot. I can put 40 rounds of .223 into a 2" hole at 100 yards with a 4 power scope, and I'm not really that great of a shot.

Magnification does NOT equal accuracy, its a figment of your imagination.

Over-magnification may equal less accuracy, especially with crap optics.

But whatever. Believe whatever you want to believe. You've been really good at that so far.

I never said your advice was wrong. I never said I didn't believe you. I never said you CAN'T be accurate with lower magnifications. You don't need to start feeling all high and mighty about it. Wow, u may be a better shot than me but why should I care? I'm out for fun not to prove anything. Just cuz I am capable of 1 inch groupings with a Barska scoped rifle with cheaper ammo does not mean I can't shoot. I got a perfect range score with my A2 in basic at 500 yards. Thats with no magnification my friend. I can't shoot?? According to some marine snipers I've talked to the greater the magnification the greater the accuracy. They claim that reguardless of how much or how little you shake while aiming that you will shake as much at any power magnification unless you use those target rest which are obviously not used in combat. The movement at any power is just more noticable at higher magnifications thats pretty obvious. This is info coming from people who are sent to kill people with lethal effect from long distances. Your theory may hold true for you but for those whose life is on the line it may not apply. The whole point of this thread was to see how well I was doing with my cheap wolf and what others have done with wolf. I NEVER said that I did not know better ammo would give me better performance. The only reason I made a big deal out of AE ammo was because I was not expecting such a huge improvement. Your making your own facts up buddy. On a side note, while I admit Barska is probably a brand of disposable optics, you don't provide any proof for you assertions about such products.

PLINK
12-18-2006, 10:46 PM
Yeah, online/mail order ammo is illegal in some areas of sac. I have not been able to find specifics so I have not had the guts to order and find out. Unfortunately, the guys at wildsports seem to hate anybody under 21. They won't sell me .223 ammo because it can be used in "pistols". Another dude refused to sell me .30-06 ammo for the same reason. I dunno about you but i'd like to see a .30-06 pistol. lol.


It seems to be that West Sac has a city ordinace against online ammo sales (according to this thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=42600&highlight=online ). I guess if your city address is not Sacramento, CA you are good for some companies (ie OK for Fair Oaks, C.H., Folsom, etc).

People in the Sacramento area are doing buisness with http://www.ammoman.com/ .

That is pretty stupid that they won't sell you .223 or .30-06 at Wild Sports. I can see .22LR but .223 is not a common pistol ammo.

kantstudien
12-18-2006, 11:09 PM
Unfortunately, the guys at wildsports seem to hate anybody under 21. They won't sell me .223 ammo because it can be used in "pistols".

If you are under 21, how can you be getting a Master's degree? People don't usually finish their Bachelor's until after 21. :confused:

Better question, how could you have been in the military (been through "basic"), gotten a Bachelor's, and be enrolled in a Master's program while still being under 21? :confused:

Cpl_Peters
12-19-2006, 7:12 AM
any time i shoot wolf in my AR after about 20 rounds a casing will get stuck in the chamber so bad that i have to get a cleaning rod and mallet and tap it out. plus that gross polymer coating covers your chamber, bore, and barrel with some gross sludge that is a pain to clean.

anyone else have this problem? Sorry not trying to hijack your thread.

cornholio1
12-19-2006, 7:40 AM
any time i shoot wolf in my AR after about 20 rounds a casing will get stuck in the chamber so bad that i have to get a cleaning rod and mallet and tap it out. plus that gross polymer coating covers your chamber, bore, and barrel with some gross sludge that is a pain to clean.

anyone else have this problem? Sorry not trying to hijack your thread.

No problems with Wolf on an AR, but have ejection problems in a Keltec. Throughly clean the chamber with break free and see if that helps. I've never had a problem with either polymer gunk or laquer gunk and I don't clean the AR religiously either. Its funny cause my buddys German 9mm Luger will only eat Wolf and nothing else.

Solidsnake87
12-19-2006, 8:35 AM
Ever heard of the NROTC program? I enlisted, got through basic, got picked up for NROTC. I'm a junior working towards a master's. Then I have to pay it back with 8 years of service. On top of that, I owe 2 additional years of service for each year I work towards a masters when I get there. Make sense now?

I don't exacly get paid much since I have a full ride scholarship and living expenses paid for. $400 a month is not exactly a shooting budget when I have other essentials not covered by military to pay for.

The fallacy there is that you're just wasting the potential of the barrel on inconsistent, cheap ammo. By the time you get around to shooting accurate ammo, your barrel might be worn to the point that even "the good stuff" won't shoot worth a damn and you won't see the benefits.

Die hard bench rest and high power match shooters will replace their match barrels at 1,500 rds because the accuracy is "shot out" of them.

Wow, I never knew that. I guess I'll have to get another barrel in the near future. I can't complain though. My upper only cost me $550 shipped from tactical supply depot. Not bad for a match upper right?

Hunter
12-19-2006, 8:35 AM
....Another dude refused to sell me .30-06 ammo for the same reason. I dunno about you but i'd like to see a .30-06 pistol. lol.......


Since you asked.:D ..30-06 pistol with a 15" barrel are available in the TC line. This pic is of the .204 Ruger but the 30-06 looks the same.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/firearmDetails.php?ID=5713

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/g2ContenderPistols.php

NRAhighpowershooter
12-19-2006, 8:41 AM
Actually Technical Ted, HighPower shooters usually look to replace a barrel at around 5K rounds.. BR shooters at around 2500rnds or less... Kreiger barrels for AR's are usually good for 7K< rounds, but HP shooters notice a change at 600yds at around 5K but keep barrel for the other 2K rounds for 200yd reduced matches.

Solidsnake87
12-19-2006, 12:18 PM
Actually Technical Ted, HighPower shooters usually look to replace a barrel at around 5K rounds.. BR shooters at around 2500rnds or less... Kreiger barrels for AR's are usually good for 7K< rounds, but HP shooters notice a change at 600yds at around 5K but keep barrel for the other 2K rounds for 200yd reduced matches.

Where do you guys get this info? I'm just curious. How long will a barrel last at 100 yard only shooting? lol

Since you asked. ..30-06 pistol with a 15" barrel are available in the TC line. This pic is of the .204 Ruger but the 30-06 looks the same.


HOLY CRAP. I can't believe somebody actually made that......and to think many people are afraid of a .44 magnum. lol. That thing should rip ur arm off.

NRAhighpowershooter
12-19-2006, 12:25 PM
Info about barrel life is usually common knowledge amongst HP and BR shooters...... as for barrel life for 100yds...on a good match type SS barrel.. say 8K rounds.........

Solidsnake87
12-19-2006, 12:30 PM
Wow, thats interesting. Are these life estimates for SS barrels only? In basic I remember being told that the barrel should last 35K rounds. I guess that must be the point at which it becomes a scatter gun. lol.

NRAhighpowershooter
12-19-2006, 12:35 PM
Actyually barrel life does increase if you have a chrome lined bore.. but then they aren't as accurate as a SS barrel....

bwiese
12-19-2006, 12:38 PM
Wow, thats interesting. Are these life estimates for SS barrels only? In basic I remember being told that the barrel should last 35K rounds. I guess that must be the point at which it becomes a scatter gun. lol.

Chrome-lined barrels last much much longer than unlined bbls for fair performance throughout the lifespan (as opposed to benchrest same-hole performance for 1st 600 rounds or so).

They're (in general) not quite as accurate, although many bottom-feeder mfgrs use that as an excuse to ship cheap-arsed 4140 "chromoly" bbls.

There are quite a few sub-MOA chrome-lined barrels out there.

And there are indeed very accurate 308 bolt-gun rifles with chrome-lined bbls - some FN Police rifles and Wincester Stealths(?) and some of the Winchesters in new WSSM calibers. In particular the chrome-lined FN bolt gun bbls are profoundly accurate and are known to be tack drivers.