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BC9696
06-09-2011, 1:18 AM
If you are in the field and your sidearm has a preban high cap magazine...how does a LEO determine whether it's legal or illegal?

jshoebot
06-09-2011, 1:31 AM
It's 100% legal to possess a 'high cap' magazine. As long as you keep your mouth shut and don't say anything, you're in the clear. Just say "it's not illegal to possess this magazine."

jgraham7897
06-09-2011, 1:53 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

It is only illegal to sell, manufacture and import.

B.Smith1984
06-09-2011, 2:06 AM
I want to keep my mouth Shut for the most part but i have been seeing them sold lately at all gun shows and stores... and This includes High Cap Drums... Whats The Deal

jgraham7897
06-09-2011, 2:12 AM
I want to keep my mouth Shut for the most part but i have been seeing them sold lately at all gun shows and stores... and This includes High Cap Drums... Whats The Deal

Not sure if you can get in trouble for buying if the seller is willing to take the risk.

Ed_Hazard
06-09-2011, 2:35 AM
I want to keep my mouth Shut for the most part but i have been seeing them sold lately at all gun shows and stores... and This includes High Cap Drums... Whats The Deal

Stores are allowed to sell to LEO and other exempt individuals with the correct permits.

Gunshow dealers likewise,or areselling blocked magsor as rebuild kits.

tuna quesadilla
06-09-2011, 2:46 AM
Stores are allowed to sell to LEO and other exempt individuals with the correct permits.

Gunshow dealers likewise,or areselling blocked magsor as rebuild kits.

Yup.

On one of my many adventures to Riflegear, I somehow ended up with the previous customer's receipt. It was a clearly printed receipt for a bunch of 30rd Pmags. :eek: Clearly the customer was LE. Picturing what would happen if an LEO found that receipt in my possession, I destroyed it posthaste :TFH:

goodlookin1
06-09-2011, 7:23 AM
Yup.

On one of my many adventures to Riflegear, I somehow ended up with the previous customer's receipt. It was a clearly printed receipt for a bunch of 30rd Pmags. :eek: Clearly the customer was LE. Picturing what would happen if an LEO found that receipt in my possession, I destroyed it posthaste :TFH:

Purchasing is NOT illegal......selling IS illegal. The seller would get in trouble, not the buyer (unless they can prove you conspired, black mailed, forced the seller to sell them to you).

GrizzlyGuy
06-09-2011, 9:51 AM
There is lots of good info in the CGF FAQ: Magazine Questions (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Magazine_Questions) (more here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Magazine_Questions_2)).

CSACANNONEER
06-09-2011, 9:54 AM
I want to keep my mouth Shut for the most part but i have been seeing them sold lately at all gun shows and stores... and This includes High Cap Drums... Whats The Deal

Welcome. Now, go back and look at what you preceive to be +10 round magazines. I'm willing to bet that they are either for LEO sales only, are really 10 round mags/drums in larger housings/bodies or, just parts kits for repairing legally owned +10 round magazines.

goodlookin1
06-09-2011, 9:59 AM
Welcome. Now, go back and look at what you preceive to be +10 round magazines. I'm willing to bet that they are either for LEO sales only, are really 10 round mags/drums in larger housings/bodies or, just parts kits for repairing legally owned +10 round magazines.

Yup, this all the way.

bwiese
06-09-2011, 10:58 AM
If you are in the field and your sidearm has a preban high cap magazine...how does a LEO determine whether it's legal or illegal?

From a theoretical standpoint, he doesn't. He has to prove it's illegal.

From a practical enforcement standpoint, there are still cops that believe all civvy hicap mag possession is illegal. CGF has dealt with that and that seems to be dying down except for the odd forest ranger, etc.

Also, possession of a hicap mag now by someone who was, say, 5 years old in 2000 ain't gonna smell that good (even if defendable) - similarly, having a hicap mag for a gun that wasn't even in production/resale in 2000 really "smells bad". People who try to talk/defend themselves in this last situation may dig themselves in a hole and should be referring questions to a lawyer and clamming up even at risk of arrest.

bwiese
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Not sure if you can get in trouble for buying if the seller is willing to take the risk.

Baloney... I wish people would stop spreading this crap.

You generally can't have 'half crimes' where one side is legal and the other isn't. See PC 31 about "all persons concerned in commission of a crime..."


t's 100% legal to possess a 'high cap' magazine. As long as you keep your mouth shut and don't say anything,
you're in the clear. Just say "it's not illegal to possess this magazine."

You should say it's *defendable".
If the mag was acquired illegally, it's still an illegal product (contraband).

This is kinda like "Is it legal to drive with a dead hooker in my trunk if my taillights work OK?"

This crap is getting old. People are coming up with all sortsa twisted logic they'll trot out and convict themselves with whenever they hit a spot of drama.

jgraham7897
06-09-2011, 11:05 AM
Baloney... I wish people would stop spreading this crap.

You generally can't have 'half crimes' where one side is legal and the other isn't. See PC 31 about "all persons concerned in commission of a crime..."



You should say it's *defendable".
If the mag was acquired illegally, it's still an illegal product (contraband).

This is kinda like "Is it legal to drive with a dead hooker in my trunk if my taillights work OK?"

This crap is getting old. People are coming up with all sortsa twisted logic they'll trot out and convict themselves with whenever they hit a spot of drama.

That is why I said "Not sure." I did not say go and try to buy them you will be fine did I?

ap3572001
06-09-2011, 11:45 AM
From a theoretical standpoint, he doesn't. He has to prove it's illegal.

From a practical enforcement standpoint, there are still cops that believe all civvy hicap mag possession is illegal. CGF has dealt with that and that seems to be dying down except for the odd forest ranger, etc.

Also, possession of a hicap mag now by someone who was, say, 5 years old in 2000 ain't gonna smell that good (even if defendable) - similarly, having a hicap mag for a gun that wasn't even in production/resale in 2000 really "smells bad". People who try to talk/defend themselves in this last situation may dig themselves in a hole and should be referring questions to a lawyer and clamming up even at risk of arrest.
Interesting........So the guy is shooting His new pistol with 17 round magazines that were only made two years ago...... What should I charge Him with? :) Should I write on his field arrest card that I am sure that he did something wrong?

jgraham7897
06-09-2011, 11:50 AM
Interesting........So the guy is shooting His new pistol with 17 round magazines that were only made two years ago...... What should I charge Him with? :) Should I write on his field arrest card that I am sure that he did something wrong?

I have 3 15 round mags for my G22 that I bought in 2008. Two of them came with the gun when I bought it here in CA the other I bought at the time I picked it up. It all came with my LEO discount but I no longer have my LEO standing because I no longer work at the prison. I am still able to use the magazines because they were legally purchased.

louderthangod
06-09-2011, 12:00 PM
So what's the easiest, qualifying LEO job someone could get so they could go on a magazine shopping spree just before quitting? :euro:

jgraham7897
06-09-2011, 12:06 PM
The BoP is always hiring.

Ctwo
06-09-2011, 12:07 PM
Where's the loophole for the non-elite? A friend bought a bunch of computer games off ebay. He received his "games" in retail boxes, but the boxes had hi-cap mags in them.

All the hi-caps I have were got pre-ban. I don't use the ones that look obviously hi-cap and only load the others with 10 rounds.

ap3572001
06-09-2011, 12:16 PM
I have 3 15 round mags for my G22 that I bought in 2008. Two of them came with the gun when I bought it here in CA the other I bought at the time I picked it up. It all came with my LEO discount but I no longer have my LEO standing because I no longer work at the prison. I am still able to use the magazines because they were legally purchased.

You WERE LEO at the time You bought it.
I was talking about someone who COULD not buy it this way or have it before the ban.

CSACANNONEER
06-09-2011, 12:27 PM
Interesting........So the guy is shooting His new pistol with 17 round magazines that were only made two years ago...... What should I charge Him with? :) Should I write on his field arrest card that I am sure that he did something wrong?

Possession is mot illegal. So, just do what most good LEOs do and keep questioning him/her until he/she admits to a criminal act. Or, understand that even some non LEOs, who have never been LEOs, can legally sell, manufacture and import +10 round mags. All anyone has to do is get a large capacity magazine permit from DOJ. I have several friends (all past or present FFLs:D) who have or had permits. Also, always remember that even if someone has never been a California resident, they can still legally import their +10 round mags into Ca IF, they hadd them in their possession inside of California for a second prior to 1-1-00. A lot of competitors, out of state hunters and guys who just brought their guns to Ca to show a buddy prior to 1-1-00 own +10 round magazines that they can bring in and remove from Ca anytime they want to.

You WERE LEO at the time You bought it.
I was talking about someone who COULD not buy it this way or have it before the ban.

So, you are talking about those under 12 years of age? I'd talk to their parents first.:p

rodeoflyer
06-09-2011, 12:27 PM
There is lots of good info in the CGF FAQ: Magazine Questions (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Magazine_Questions) (more here (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/FAQ#Magazine_Questions_2)).

There it is.

bwiese
06-09-2011, 12:55 PM
I have 3 15 round mags for my G22 that I bought in 2008. Two of them came with the gun when I bought it here in CA the other I bought at the time I picked it up. It all came with my LEO discount but I no longer have my LEO standing because I no longer work at the prison. I am still able to use the magazines because they were legally purchased.

Do not leave then return to California with those hicaps.

Yes, your mag ownership is legit. But the 'travel in/out of CA' exemption applies only to pre-2000 magazines.

jgraham7897
06-09-2011, 1:46 PM
Do not leave then return to California with those hicaps.

Yes, your mag ownership is legit. But the 'travel in/out of CA' exemption applies only to pre-2000 magazines.

Good to know. Guess I need to pick up some 10 rounders just in case.

BC9696
06-09-2011, 2:27 PM
So the bottom line is simply, there is no way for a LEO to know if a high cap mag is legal unless you tell him or say something stupid to make you suspect or it is obviously illegal because the firearm was made after 2000. Right? I thought there was a registry that they could access and see your firearm purchase history. No?

CSACANNONEER
06-09-2011, 2:36 PM
So the bottom line is simply, there is no way for a LEO to know if a high cap mag is legal unless you tell him or say something stupid to make you suspect or it is obviously illegal because the firearm was made after 2000. Right? I thought there was a registry that they could access and see your firearm purchase history. No?

LOL. The whole "registration" thing is increadibly flawed. There is no way that the state knows what handguns I purchased at a garage sale prior to 1-1-91 or received from ny father prior to ???, or manufactured last week. The registrary does not include any long guns except for those voluntarily registered (that includes AWs and 50BMG rifles). Also, many of us have mags for guns we've never owned. There has never been a requirement to own a specific firearm in order to own the magazines for it.

B.Smith1984
06-09-2011, 3:34 PM
The BoP is always hiring.

BOP ??? I don't recognize this one........

B.Smith1984
06-09-2011, 3:36 PM
I do Armed Security and protection details and I was informed a few years back that I was able to purchase...... any ideas

CSACANNONEER
06-09-2011, 3:38 PM
I do Armed Security and protection details and I was informed a few years back that I was able to purchase...... any ideas

I suggest reading the law for yourself. I have never seen an exception for rent-a-cops other than armored car companies. But, that doesn't mean that there isn't one.

MasterYong
06-09-2011, 3:46 PM
Basically, it's an unenforceable law that would likely only be used by a misinformed leo or as an add-on or plea deal to another crime. Unless you hang yourself, as bill put it, it's "defensible."

B.Smith1984
06-09-2011, 3:52 PM
I suggest reading the law for yourself. I have never seen an exception for rent-a-cops other than armored car companies. But, that doesn't mean that there isn't one.

Hey this Rent-A-Cop has been in some Hairy ****..... You be surprised how many cops that has acknowledge and praised my partner and I for he areas we work and the shoot out when been in.....It Pays the Bills when all the Departments are laying off

MasterYong
06-09-2011, 3:58 PM
Hey this Rent-A-Cop has been in some Hairy ****..... You be surprised how many cops that has acknowledge and praised my partner and I for he areas we work and the shoot out when been in.....It Pays the Bills when all the Departments are laying off

Link to B.Smith's Efforts (http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/)

CSACANNONEER
06-09-2011, 4:00 PM
Hey this Rent-A-Cop has been in some Hairy ****..... You be surprised how many cops that has acknowledge and praised my partner and I for he areas we work and the shoot out when been in.....It Pays the Bills when all the Departments are laying off

Hey, I did it for many years too. I even did mall security because, I was asked to apply by the head of security not because I was looking for another job with a tin star and no authority. Sometimes, you just gotta do whatever it takes to pay the bills. IMHO, there are two kinds, those who want to be cops but are too stupid to spell "academy" so, they can't look it up in a phone book (or on the internet) and apply and those who realize that private security is not LE and don't act like wanna bees or Gecko45s.

B.Smith1984
06-09-2011, 4:08 PM
Hey, I did it for many years too. I even did mall security because, I was asked to apply by the head of security not because I was looking for another job with a tin star and no authority. Sometimes, you just gotta do whatever it takes to pay the bills. IMHO, there are two kinds, those who want to be cops but are too stupid to spell "academy" so, they can't look it up in a phone book (or on the internet) and apply and those who realize that private security is not LE and don't act like wanna bees or Gecko45s.


Where did You work and what Company

CnCFunFactory
06-09-2011, 4:10 PM
Link to B.Smith's Efforts (http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/)

Pure awesome, you beat me to it. Well played Master Yong, well played indeed.

B.Smith1984
06-09-2011, 5:31 PM
Im Rolling on the Floor Laughing after reading that link..... but no thats not what im about....
I was doing a patrol service for a rowdy bar and had some gang members come and started shooting... Well My partner and I responded with greater Quality Force..... and came out alive with my partner getting shot......
lol but when i say places that i work... i mean Oakland, Richmand, Vallejo, and Hunters Point in SF a few years ago....I hear its worse then Compton....

Im not hear to brag and was just trying to say thanks to the Cops that dont act like Jack**** just because of what I do.... Im now working with a lot of laid of LEO's

And that Was a Great link.... Thank You Ive known some guys like that

GettoPhilosopher
06-09-2011, 6:15 PM
Baloney... I wish people would stop spreading this crap.

You generally can't have 'half crimes' where one side is legal and the other isn't. See PC 31 about "all persons concerned in commission of a crime..."


Well, sort of. Let's make a distinction between conspiracy to import and merely buying. If you set up a booth on the street corner selling high cap mags, my purchase is not illegal (though you're in trouble). If I buy a rifle from a shop out of state and they screw up and send me a 30rd mag instead of a 10rd mag, my purchase is legal. If I PPT a firearm that I was told came with rebuild kits and the guy hands me highcaps instead, my purchase is legal.

Conspiracy would be "Hey, Bwiese, next time you're in Nevada would you mind picking me up some high cap mags?". Sure, I'm not importing...but I'm causing the mags to be imported.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong legally, but that's my understanding of it. That's why it's not a loophole to, for instance, have your out of state friend/family member mail you mags. Sure, CA DOJ will never catch your buddy in New Mexico, but you're still *causing* those magazines to be imported.

CSACANNONEER
06-09-2011, 6:45 PM
Where did You work and what Company

It was years ago. I worked for a small company in SLO, the mall in SLO. Later on, I did after hours security/caretaking on 400 acres outside of Malibu to earn my rent while I lived there. That position had a lot of perks like dinners and events at an exclusive country club, floor seats for Lakers games (during there last 3 peat), cruising H1s and other fun vehicles, dinners at very high end resturants, my own private range, etc.

B.Smith1984
06-09-2011, 8:03 PM
I've had a few like that but not as grwat as that sounds.... I've been debating lately of opening my own company but I'm not sure if its the best of times.....my goal is to have one started before i hit 30 or have a career going by then

cdtx2001
06-09-2011, 8:14 PM
Mama sez hi-cap mags are the Devil!!!

chead
06-09-2011, 8:45 PM
Not sure if you can get in trouble for buying if the seller is willing to take the risk.

You can, don't test it. It's textbook "conspiracy to commit". You'd have a very hard time proving you didn't know better, especially as a CalGuns member.


If I buy a rifle from a shop out of state and they screw up and send me a 30rd mag instead of a 10rd mag, my purchase is legal.
I wouldn't suggest holding your breath waiting for that to happen, but in any case you'd be obligated to make a good-faith effort to return it.

Kavey
06-10-2011, 4:02 PM
If you are in the field and your sidearm has a preban high cap magazine...how does a LEO determine whether it's legal or illegal?

If you are confronted by a LEO and he/she starts questioning you about how you came into procession of those "illegal" large capacity magazines in your gun and/or on your belt, you can respond as follows:

"Officer, I'm sure you must be aware of what the Assault Weapons Identification Guide issued by the California Department of Justice has to say on the subject of large capacity magazines. You know, it's the guide issued to all of the district attorneys in the state as well as all of the law enforcement agencies in the state so that they will know the law on this subject. Perhaps, you've forgotten. Let me quote it for you: On page 74, second paragraph the Guide says: 'Possession of large capacity magazines, whether by peace officers or private citizens, is not controlled.' Officer, that is the law here in California. I have nothing further to say on the subject. Now, am I being detained or am I free to go?"

If you are confronted by a truly ignorant and belligerent LEO (becoming rarer these days, thank God) who still takes you into custody despite your polite instruction on the law call Calguns!

NOTE: The use of a bold face font and underlining for the words "possession" and "is not" are in the Guide. That one sentence is the entire complete paragraph it's an exact quote!

louderthangod
06-10-2011, 5:17 PM
Bravo sir! :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

FastFinger
06-10-2011, 6:48 PM
This is kinda like "Is it legal to drive with a dead hooker in my trunk if my taillights work OK?"


Depends... Is the car a pre 2000 model?

G1500
06-10-2011, 7:25 PM
Depends... Is the car a pre 2000 model?

Model of the car does not matter.

Was the hooker in the trunk prior to 2000? Or were you in CA with the hooker in the trunk at some point prior to 1/1/2000?

B.Smith1984
06-10-2011, 11:16 PM
LoL

CSACANNONEER
06-11-2011, 7:07 AM
Model of the car does not matter.

Was the hooker in the trunk prior to 2000? Or were you in CA with the hooker in the trunk at some point prior to 1/1/2000?

If so, would it be legal to "rebuild" the hooker using at least one part (hopefully just a wig) from the original hooker and end up with a live one?

G1500
06-11-2011, 8:30 AM
If so, would it be legal to "rebuild" the hooker using at least one part (hopefully just a wig) from the original hooker and end up with a live one?

No, the hooker must not be 'live'. You can use as many parts as you want but cant end up with more dead hookers in the trunk than you started with.

SanPedroShooter
06-11-2011, 8:42 AM
My father had a large collection of hooker corpses in his trunk. Sadly he has passed on...

Can I inherit his dead hookers, or do they have to be destroyed or turned into the police?

CSACANNONEER
06-11-2011, 10:12 AM
My father had a large collection of hooker corpses in his trunk. Sadly he has passed on...

Can I inherit his dead hookers, or do they have to be destroyed or turned into the police?

I would suggest dismantling them (there are some tutorials on line to help you. The Dahmer one is old but very detailed) and contacting a good dead hooker lawyer to arrange turning them over for proper disposal. You might be able to sell them to someone with a preban dead hooker permit but, I'd still consult a speacialized attorney first.

thebronze
06-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Sorry, but I lost all my hookers in a tragic boating accident...

kLewis
06-11-2011, 5:36 PM
Legitimate question, not hooker (living, dead, tactical, railed, or trunk-dwelling) -related:

The law bans selling, importing, and manufacture. How does gifting work? If I have a friend who buys a model of gun that can accept pre-ban magazines I have, can I give him some?

What about spouses? Does mutual property apply?

Librarian
06-11-2011, 6:31 PM
Legitimate question, not hooker (living, dead, tactical, railed, or trunk-dwelling) -related:

The law bans selling, importing, and manufacture. How does gifting work? If I have a friend who buys a model of gun that can accept pre-ban magazines I have, can I give him some?

What about spouses? Does mutual property apply?

No. No transfer of complete large-capacity mags inside CA, unless the receiver is exempt.

And 'pre-ban' has no meaning related to magazines - they're either large-capacity (more than 10 rounds) or not.

See http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

kLewis
06-12-2011, 12:20 AM
No. No transfer of complete large-capacity mags inside CA, unless the receiver is exempt.

And 'pre-ban' has no meaning related to magazines - they're either large-capacity (more than 10 rounds) or not.

See http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

Thank you much, sir. :)

Steve1968LS2
06-12-2011, 9:11 AM
Legitimate question, not hooker (living, dead, tactical, railed, or trunk-dwelling) -related:


Most of my hookers are railed.. often..