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View Full Version : An affordable, accurate, bolt action rifle?


The Soup Nazi
12-16-2006, 3:00 PM
After someone at the range today let me help him zero in his bolt action rifles, I want one of my own right now. I guess the novelty of semi-automatics might be wearing a little off on me, though they are still very fun and cheap rifles to shoot. I'm kind of turned off at the concept of a Mosin Nagant, because of the sticky bolt syndrome and it still isn't the most accurate thing out there. I don't want to deal with K31s or Lee-enfields because of the ammunition, so I guess my choice would be narrowed down to something newly produced. The guy who showed me his rifles suggested a new Savage in 30.06 or any other common caliber as its supposed to be one of the best and cheapest deals out there. Personally I don't see spending the 2-3 grand for those really high end bolt action rifles, so I wondered if anyone could throw suggestions at me.

cornholio1
12-16-2006, 3:03 PM
After someone at the range today let me help him zero in his bolt action rifles, I want one of my own right now. I guess the novelty of semi-automatics might be wearing a little off on me, though they are still very fun and cheap rifles to shoot. I'm kind of turned off at the concept of a Mosin Nagant, because of the sticky bolt syndrome and it still isn't the most accurate thing out there. I don't want to deal with K31s or Lee-enfields because of the ammunition, so I guess my choice would be narrowed down to something newly produced. The guy who showed me his rifles suggested a new Savage in 30.06 or any other common caliber as its supposed to be one of the best and cheapest deals out there. Personally I don't see spending the 2-3 grand for those really high end bolt action rifles, so I wondered if anyone could throw suggestions at me.


Remington 700P. 1/2" groups out of the box. The End

blkA4alb
12-16-2006, 3:06 PM
Remington 700 in .308.

Lock thread ;) .

The Soup Nazi
12-16-2006, 3:07 PM
Hehe, I guess this is one of those "Doh" posts, eh?

Dont Tread on Me
12-16-2006, 3:08 PM
Savage Rifles. Not as nice as finish as the Remington but just as accurate.

Now I'm going to duck behind cover....

James R.
12-16-2006, 3:08 PM
After someone at the range today let me help him zero in his bolt action rifles, I want one of my own right now. I guess the novelty of semi-automatics might be wearing a little off on me, though they are still very fun and cheap rifles to shoot. I'm kind of turned off at the concept of a Mosin Nagant, because of the sticky bolt syndrome and it still isn't the most accurate thing out there. I don't want to deal with K31s or Lee-enfields because of the ammunition, so I guess my choice would be narrowed down to something newly produced. The guy who showed me his rifles suggested a new Savage in 30.06 or any other common caliber as its supposed to be one of the best and cheapest deals out there. Personally I don't see spending the 2-3 grand for those really high end bolt action rifles, so I wondered if anyone could throw suggestions at me.

Remington 700 of any sort with a heavy barrel, be it 700P, 700 LTR or 700VS etc. If you want cheaper you can get a Savage in a varmint (heavy barrel) with the Accutrigger etc. I still feel strongly that the 700 is the rifle to get if you want to build a nice basic bolt gun.

To really get the most performance you should really consider reloading, it's not that expensive to get in to.

BTW - The bolt gun has some hidden costs, you need bases, rings, optics...bipod or some kinda rests etc. It's not uncommon at all to spend more on all that crap than you do on the rifle itself, esp if you go with higher end optics.

Regards,

James R.

James R.
12-16-2006, 3:10 PM
Savage Rifles. Not as nice as finish as the Remington but just as accurate.

Now I'm going to duck behind cover....

They're very good and possibly a better buy *IF* you plan to do nothing with it in terms of working on it. The Remington 700 is IMHO a better platform when you start modifying things...

Regards,

James R.

Fjold
12-16-2006, 3:16 PM
Savage Rifles. Not as nice as finish as the Remington but just as accurate.


Here, I fixed it for you:

Savage Rifles. Not as nice as finish as the Remington but more accurate for less money.

Dont Tread on Me
12-16-2006, 3:25 PM
BTW - The bolt gun has some hidden costs, you need bases, rings, optics...bipod or some kinda rests etc.

+1. I'd open the question up to the best rifle + scope combination. The [precision] bbolt gun is useless without a good scope.

phish
12-16-2006, 3:31 PM
Savages are easier to work on, depending on what it is you want to change. IMHO, there's just as many equivalent after-market goodies available for the Savage platform than there are for the 700 action. It's those doo-dads for that last Nth degree that seem to draw people to the Remington action.

The recoil lug already has an indexing feature, whereas the Remingtons need either a receiver modification, or a special fixture sold by Brownells if you ever want to swap barrels.

The Accu-trigger is already more than adequate for most uses, and there's an excellent unit sold by Sharp Shooter Supply that is easy to install.

All that being said, I eventually intend on purchasing a bare 700 receiver for a future project: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek074.html

phish
12-16-2006, 3:32 PM
The bolt gun is useless without a good scope.

debatable

:p

Archenemy550
12-16-2006, 3:37 PM
check out the Remington 710. Never shot it, but it has a scope out of the box....... tho I dont know the quality of that either.

I would go 700 SPS in 308 Win. myself. :)

The Soup Nazi
12-16-2006, 4:21 PM
Well, I guess I'd probably look into the 700 since apparently that leaves the option open for modification. Still going to do a lot of research, fortunately (or unfortunately), I'm not an impulse buyer.

xenophobe
12-16-2006, 4:24 PM
Here, I fixed it for you:

Savage Rifles. Not as nice as finish as the Remington but more accurate for less money.

Until you decide to buy the model with heavy barrel with accu-trigger and H&S Precision stock, then for a $150 more you could have just bought the Remington. :p

The standard Savage synthetic stock is truly a piece of worthless garbage.

Dont Tread on Me
12-16-2006, 4:48 PM
debatable
:p

My fault, I was too general. Yep, there are plenary of applications for a bolt gun with irons and I do enjoy shooting Enfileds. I meant a precision rifle without a good scope is useless.

Osprey
12-16-2006, 5:20 PM
I'm much more of a handgun guy, so perhaps my opinion can be chalked up to inexperience, but I have no idea why everyone rags on the Savage stock. I picked up a 10-FP a few months ago that is fantastic (originally intended to go with a 700PSS) and the stock isn't nearly is bad as a lot of people said it was. There may be a H&S Precision stock in her future, but the factory stock is perfectly acceptable for now.

And the accu-trigger rules...

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-16-2006, 5:27 PM
Soup, what about a Finnish 91/30 or M39?

Should be about $200 a piece and I hear they make for awesome shooters.

Can't get much better than an MOA WWII Rifle that killed both Ivan and Jerry. :D

rg_1111@yahoo.com
12-16-2006, 5:56 PM
Heck the 700 in .308 rounds are going to cost more than the K31 rounds.
Time to put the flame suit on, Because someone will say military surplus in .308 is cheap.
I think soup wants the most accuracy. That will be match grade shells not Military surplus.
With that said i have the 700P with Leupold 4.5-14X42 and K31.
Soup whatever rifle you get buy good glass.

Solidsnake87
12-16-2006, 6:03 PM
Barretta Tikka- T-3. They guarantee 1 inch groupings or less at 100 yards with any commercial ammo.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-16-2006, 6:17 PM
What about a surplus 8mm Mauser?

You could get a Russian capture K98 for much less then a Savage and it would fit into your WWII collection. Less collectable Mausers are still around for close to $100 and you could easily get one from a private sale with no waiting period. And surplus 8mm Mauser ammo is still almost as cheap as 7.62x54R.

Have you tried doing a really, really good scrubbing of your Mosin-Nagant's chamber to fix the sticky bolt syndrome? I scrubbed mine with 0000 bronze wool wrapped around a 45 cal bore brush chucked in a power drill and the sticky bolt syndrome went away, even with Czech silvertip ammo.

Or are you set on getting something you can scope?

HKROB
12-16-2006, 6:34 PM
I would get a k-31 with a clamp scope mount Ammo is cheap you can use GP-11,wolf gold,Hornady,prvi partizan.

If you go with a new bolt gun there are tons of good ones @ low prices.I would get one in .223 its low recoil will help shoot tighter groups.

M. Sage
12-16-2006, 6:34 PM
My Mosin's rarely gotten sticky.

I'm planning a K31 purchase for after the holidays. :D

The Soup Nazi
12-16-2006, 6:46 PM
What about a surplus 8mm Mauser?

You could get a Russian capture K98 for much less then a Savage and it would fit into your WWII collection. Less collectable Mausers are still around for close to $100 and you could easily get one from a private sale with no waiting period. And surplus 8mm Mauser ammo is still almost as cheap as 7.62x54R.

Have you tried doing a really, really good scrubbing of your Mosin-Nagant's chamber to fix the sticky bolt syndrome? I scrubbed mine with 0000 bronze wool wrapped around a 45 cal bore brush chucked in a power drill and the sticky bolt syndrome went away, even with Czech silvertip ammo.

Or are you set on getting something you can scope?

I don't personally own a Nagant but I've fired plenty of rounds out of various people's Nagants, plenty of stuck actions. I think the Mausers are really nice but I want to round out the collection with a modern rifle which does the job exceptionally well, not that I'm saying that the Mauser can't do well in its own right.

xenophobe
12-16-2006, 6:53 PM
Get a .17HMR or a .223 bolt action. More accuracy than you'll ever need, and inexpensive match grade ammo is widely available.

whomper
12-16-2006, 7:05 PM
I picked up a used Rem. 700 30-06 for $400. It came with a Bushnell 4x12 scope. I'm pleased with the deal. I was also looking for a pre 64 Winchester 70, The only ones I found were at least twice as much as the 700.

Dr. Peter Venkman
12-16-2006, 7:10 PM
Have you tried doing a really, really good scrubbing of your Mosin-Nagant's chamber to fix the sticky bolt syndrome? I scrubbed mine with 0000 bronze wool wrapped around a 45 cal bore brush chucked in a power drill and the sticky bolt syndrome went away, even with Czech silvertip ammo.

Or are you set on getting something you can scope?

I believe he is referring to the horror story of my 91/30 and M44 when he was at the range with me. Damn thing would get stuck, hard. I cleaned it thoroughly after getting back from the range, got different ammo, and there was no problem.

Soup, I just ordered an iron-elite mount the guys suggested on my thread with a 6x42 scope w/ german reticle. The mount should be here by Christmas. On top of that, I'm getting an M39. I'll let you try the stuff out to see if that helps what you are looking for.

bu-bye
12-16-2006, 7:20 PM
IMO if you plan to build it up, a savage is the better buy. Its easier to do barrel swaps and just about any stock made for the remy is also made for the savage. I built up my savage with a total cost of under $600 NIB and it shoots 3/16th inch groups. It will give any rifle in any price range a run for its money. You can't go wrong with a Remington but you are paying more for the name. Stock for stock, the 700 wins in looks alone. If you plan to upgrade both with a new stock the Savage is the better buy.

Mssr. Eleganté
12-16-2006, 7:27 PM
...I think the Mausers are really nice but I want to round out the collection with a modern rifle which does the job exceptionally well...

Good God, man! Round out the collection?!?! Aren't you still 17 years old? Your generation will probably live to be 120. You've got plenty of time to round out your collection. Modern rifles will always cost the same, because they are modern. Military surplus rifles are only going to go up in value. Your Russian SKS was selling for $99 back in the 1990's. (Well, probably $250 at SJGE :D ) I don't want to see you on this board ten years from now looking to buy a $2000 Russian capture K98. :p

The Soup Nazi
12-16-2006, 8:20 PM
Good God, man! Round out the collection?!?! Aren't you still 17 years old? Your generation will probably live to be 120. You've got plenty of time to round out your collection. Modern rifles will always cost the same, because they are modern. Military surplus rifles are only going to go up in value. Your Russian SKS was selling for $99 back in the 1990's. (Well, probably $250 at SJGE :D ) I don't want to see you on this board ten years from now looking to buy a $2000 Russian capture K98. :p

There never is enough time! I'm in an imaginary arms race with all of the right-winged survivalists out there and I still haven't left the gate. :D But I sure will give the Mauser deep thought, wouldn't mind having a WW2 rifle to make some my friend's little brother cry in envy.

FatKatMatt
12-16-2006, 9:38 PM
Get a Mauser, or an Enfield, or something like that. They have more character, and they look nicer. A VZ24, 98/22 BRNO, or Karabiner 98 Kurz all happen to be good choices in 8mm. I started a thread a while back about what the best Mauser is and the general consensus is the Swedish Mauser 96, though that fires the less common 6.5 x 55. The general consensus is that the Swedish Mauser also happens to be more accurate than the rest of them, though the '96 action isn't as strong as the '98.

I've held a WWII era 98k and a Yugo 24/47, they both feel nice but the Nazi one was trimmer and had a bent bolt, while the Yugo was slightly fatter and had a straight bolt. The Yugo's a lot of the time haven't been in wars and/or are unissued, so they happen to be in better shape most of the time.

Just my $0.02

koiloco
12-16-2006, 9:49 PM
Get a .17HMR or a .223 bolt action. More accuracy than you'll ever need, and inexpensive match grade ammo is widely available.

Now, this is the most valuable advise by far.

a .308 won't be near as fun and relaxing to shoot. I have all three, 17hmr, .223 and .308 and the ones I bring to the range the most are the 17 and 223.

With a 308, you won't be able to bullet impact even with a good break. For practice, I personally like to see POI thru the scope.

dw1784
12-17-2006, 12:06 AM
Stevens or for a little more, Howa 1500.

Steven's like the pre-accutrigger Savage, for less. I think the 30-06 are~$270. Howa 1500 with the Niko-Sterling scope is~450 at Turners when it's on sale. Howa is just as accurate as a Rem700.

t001
12-17-2006, 5:30 PM
Yeah, I'd go with others' suggestions in grabbing up the C&R's as many types seem to be drying up. For a couple of hundred bucks you can get a nice K31, K98k, Enfield, etc. They major surplus houses seem to have just gotten in another batch of K98k's. Or what about a 1903 from CMP? And you can pick up a Garand for you and your father while you're at it. That source is definitely drying up. It's a little more expensive than the other C&R's though.

The modern bolt-actions are nice, no doubt, but they are not going anywhere just yet, and they do get pricey once you factor in nice glasses and match ammos or reloading equipment. You do need a nice little rimfire bolt-action sooner or later, though. ;)

However, if you insist, there's a NIB Winchester Model 70 Sporter III in 30-06 that might be available, though. :D

elsolo
12-18-2006, 1:46 AM
Remmy, Savage, CZ, Tikka, etc. There are plenty of affordable high quality bolt rifles on the market today, some such as the Rem hae a lot of aftermarket support, keep that in mind if you ever want to change anything.
Decent glass is nice, but not as important as reloading for your rifle, IMHO.

califcowboy
12-18-2006, 9:22 AM
Don't believe that every Remington 700 PSS rifle will group .5 inch out of the box. Too many variations in manufacturing. A lot of it depends on the shooter and the ammo too.

cornholio1
12-18-2006, 9:37 AM
A lot of it depends on the shooter and the ammo too.


Thats true for all firearms

triaged
12-18-2006, 11:56 PM
I like to buy US made guns if I can. I went with a Savage. You can pick up the package guns at big5 on sale for a very good price. The scope is cheap but the gun is awesome. Upgrade the scope when you get the money. Here is my 11FCNS in .308win.
http://www.scbd.org/phpBB2/modules/gallery/albums/album124/11fcns_07.sized.jpg

I put a longer (taticool) bolt on it to clear the scope better. $38 and self install vs $100+ and sent off to a gunsmith for a rem700. I also now have a 243win. barrel that I plan on swapping on from time to time (which can be easily done on a Savage).

proraptor
12-19-2006, 7:05 AM
Id get the savage just because of the accutrigger...It can be set down to like 2 lbs pull and still pass the drop test...So cool

fairfaxjim
12-19-2006, 8:29 AM
I have a .308 Savage 10FLP (Left handed FP) with the accutrigger. I Have a 10X SuperSniper scope on it right now - works ok, I wouldn't rate it as greeat glass, and the adjusting knobs are stiff as hell. I do agree that the stock is pretty flimsy. I put one of the Choate Ultimate Varmint stocks on mine, again not for everybody - best to try some other people's stocks and see what feels best for you, both for shooting and for the wallet. I went to the Savage primarily for the accutrigger, and am not disappointed. I get very good results from mine, and it is a kick to shoot at 500+ yards. I also happend to find a dealer locally who had a lefty Savage in stock, so I made a good deal.

Would I be happy with a Remmington 700? You bet I would! Check out both and get what floats your boat.

jaymz
12-19-2006, 11:00 AM
They're very good and possibly a better buy *IF* you plan to do nothing with it in terms of working on it. The Remington 700 is IMHO a better platform when you start modifying things...

Regards,

James R.

That's the beauty of a Savage. You don't have to modify it! My 22-250 has the Accutrigger on it and I haven't even messed with it. It was perfect out of the box. I just wish that I would have waited 6 months when I bought my 308. They didn't have the Accutrigger yet.

jaymz
12-19-2006, 11:04 AM
The standard Savage synthetic stock is truly a piece of worthless garbage.

Why do you say that? Mine's held up perfectly for the past 6-7 years of heavy use and abuse.:confused:

ivanimal
12-19-2006, 11:27 AM
Buy a musket.

triaged
12-19-2006, 11:56 AM
Why do you say that? Mine's held up perfectly for the past 6-7 years of heavy use and abuse.:confused:The forend (of the plastic stocks) flexes quite a bit. If you use a sling or bi-pod to shoot it can throw off your shot. For just normal "check the zero with 5 shots at the range once a year before deer season" type use it is fine. For most other uses people either swap out the stock or try to stiffen it up.

The Soup Nazi
12-19-2006, 12:06 PM
Buy a musket.

Creepy, someone suggested that to me over AIM as well.

jaymz
12-19-2006, 1:25 PM
The forend (of the plastic stocks) flexes quite a bit. If you use a sling or bi-pod to shoot it can throw off your shot. For just normal "check the zero with 5 shots at the range once a year before deer season" type use it is fine. For most other uses people either swap out the stock or try to stiffen it up.

You are right about the flexing for sure, but I can shoot the center out of clay pigeons at 200 yds with my bipod. It either doesn't move enough to be an issue, or I have even better accuracy potential than I thought!:eek:

M. Sage
12-19-2006, 4:53 PM
Buy a musket.

Or a muzzle-loading rifle. I'd go smoothbore first, though. Flintlock, definitely. :D

James R.
12-19-2006, 6:23 PM
That's the beauty of a Savage. You don't have to modify it! My 22-250 has the Accutrigger on it and I haven't even messed with it. It was perfect out of the box. I just wish that I would have waited 6 months when I bought my 308. They didn't have the Accutrigger yet.

You don't *have* to modify the Remington either. The accutrigger is nice for a stock trigger no doubt. However I'll still keep my 700 with it's 8oz Jewell thanks ;-)

Regards,

James R.

anotherted
12-19-2006, 6:46 PM
You don't *have* to modify the Remington either.

Oh yes you do. Mine came with a pull that Mr.T would have problems with.

Damn lawyers:D

Rogerbutthead
12-19-2006, 7:33 PM
I agree with those that say go for the Milsurps. If you can buy a decent Springfield 1903 variant, go for it. They will never go down in value and most certainly go up. They certainly will appreciate much faster than a modern rifle. Young eyes don't necessarily need a scope to shoot well off the bench.

A lee loader in 30-06, primers, powder, some sierra bullets, a rubber mallet and a block of wood and you will be a happy camper. At least that is how I started reloading. :)