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View Full Version : Not to rehash a zombie thread, but I have a question regarding 30rnd mags and RO/LOE


PixelBender
06-07-2011, 2:30 PM
I am in legal possession of 8x30 round magazines. I'm taking a training class with my recently finished AR build. I just traveled back from OH where 30round mags are not a problem. I DID NOT AQUIRE THE MAGAZINES IN OH, I'm well aware of the California mag laws. Initially I was going to bring my magazines with me, but the law states that if the magazines leave the state they cant come back in. That being said... I've never had a problem with anyone saying "Hey are those 30 round mags? Are those 'legal' ?"

What if someone where to say "Hey those aren't legal!" at the range, or if stopped by an on/off duty LEO, how does one handle the situation? Are they legally allowed to confiscate the magazines? Can they arrest you? If asked, whats the best way to handle this situation?

Thanks for your time and help CalGuns :D. Always appreciated!

-J

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 2:36 PM
Some people like to be nosey and what not, and the only thing I can think of saying is "these are my magazines of which I am in legal possession."

The other issue is that it looks like some of the magazines say

"Military & Law Enforcement- For Export Use Only"

Does it matter if they say that? If it does the only thing I can think of doing legally is breaking them down.

rodeoflyer
06-07-2011, 2:39 PM
There are a lot of threads on this already...

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 2:41 PM
I'm picking through those right now, if you happen to find a link that would be a big help. I havent found one whcih answers my question yet though.

rodeoflyer
06-07-2011, 2:44 PM
I mean this in a friendly and sincere way -

I'm not looking for a link or the answers, because I already know them. It would be wise for you to take the time to search (I realize it's easier to start thread #241), rather than possibly publicly admit breaking the law.

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 2:55 PM
I appreciate your input but searching for this kind of info is coming up empty.

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 3:03 PM
:/ meh... nothing. Thanks for the help RodeoFlyer

Phantompooper03
06-07-2011, 3:14 PM
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409&highlight=30-round+magazine

aannnnd:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

Turo
06-07-2011, 3:16 PM
I am in legal possession of 8x30 round magazines. I'm taking a training class with my recently finished AR build. I just traveled back from OH where 30round mags are not a problem. I DID NOT AQUIRE THE MAGAZINES IN OH, I'm well aware of the California mag laws. Initially I was going to bring my magazines with me, but the law states that if the magazines leave the state they cant come back in. That being said... I've never had a problem with anyone saying "Hey are those 30 round mags? Are those 'legal' ?"

What if someone where to say "Hey those aren't legal!" at the range, or if stopped by an on/off duty LEO, how does one handle the situation? Are they legally allowed to confiscate the magazines? Can they arrest you? If asked, whats the best way to handle this situation?

Thanks for your time and help CalGuns :D. Always appreciated!

-J

That part I bolded, is absolutely false.
If you owned a large-capacity magazine in CA before 2000, it is perfectly legal to take them out of state and bring them back fully assembled and functional the entire time.

In fact, if you were in possession of a high capacity magazine in CA at any point in time before 2000, even if you weren't a resident, you are still allowed to bring it back into CA.

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 3:16 PM
The only thing I've managed to find is a snipit from RifleGear.com

"The bonus of a featureless rifle is that you can legally use 30 round magazines if you had them in your possession before the ban took effect in 2000."

I know there are other situations where possession of 30round magazines is legal, but from what it sounds like, the only LEGAL way to use 30 round magazines is if you have a featureless rifle. Looks like they wont be leaving the house any time soon as I dont ever plan to build a short-bus rifle, let alone use one in a training class.

CSACANNONEER
06-07-2011, 3:19 PM
I am in legal possession of 8x30 round magazines. I'm taking a training class with my recently finished AR build. I just traveled back from OH where 30round mags are not a problem. I DID NOT AQUIRE THE MAGAZINES IN OH, I'm well aware of the California mag laws. Initially I was going to bring my magazines with me, but the law states that if the magazines leave the state they cant come back in. That being said... I've never had a problem with anyone saying "Hey are those 30 round mags? Are those 'legal' ?"

What if someone where to say "Hey those aren't legal!" at the range, or if stopped by an on/off duty LEO, how does one handle the situation? Are they legally allowed to confiscate the magazines? Can they arrest you? If asked, whats the best way to handle this situation?

Thanks for your time and help CalGuns :D. Always appreciated!

-J

This is wrong. As long as the mags were in California for a second at some point prior to 1-1-00, you can bring them in and out of the state to your heart's content. You didn't even need to be a resident of California at the time you brought the magazines into the state.


You can use +10 round magazines in ANY firearm unless it is a fixed magazine, semi auto which is not a RAW. In other words, yes, a featureless semi auto WITHOUT a BB or other maglock is OK. So is a bolt action, pump, etc. In fact, I use a 75 round drum on my pump action AK just to do it.

tonelar
06-07-2011, 3:19 PM
I'm picking through those right now, if you happen to find a link that would be a big help. I havent found one whcih answers my question yet though.

Your first error was assuming you were given correct info regarding leaving and returning with magazines possessed (here in CA) prior to the ban.

Decoligny
06-07-2011, 3:20 PM
I am in legal possession of 8x30 round magazines. I'm taking a training class with my recently finished AR build. I just traveled back from OH where 30round mags are not a problem. I DID NOT AQUIRE THE MAGAZINES IN OH, I'm well aware of the California mag laws. Initially I was going to bring my magazines with me, but the law states that if the magazines leave the state they cant come back in. That being said... I've never had a problem with anyone saying "Hey are those 30 round mags? Are those 'legal' ?"

What if someone where to say "Hey those aren't legal!" at the range, or if stopped by an on/off duty LEO, how does one handle the situation? Are they legally allowed to confiscate the magazines? Can they arrest you? If asked, whats the best way to handle this situation?

Thanks for your time and help CalGuns :D. Always appreciated!

-J


If you legally possessed these magazines in CA prior to 1 January 2000, then you can legally take them out of the state and you can legally bring them back into the state.



California Penal Code

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:
...
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be
manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or
exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity
magazine.
...
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
...
(23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who
lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to
January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning
to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully
possessed in the state.

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 3:21 PM
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409&highlight=30-round+magazine

aannnnd:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

Thanks for that. Librarian always has it handled.

So I'm clear..

30 round magazines in a rifle that employs a bullet button is considered an AW. Sad... Now I have to spend some money on 10/30's.

tonelar
06-07-2011, 3:24 PM
Some people like to be nosey and what not, and the only thing I can think of saying is
"NUNYA BUSINESS!"

Fixed it for you.

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 3:28 PM
"NUNYA BUSINESS!"

Fixed it for you.

;) Thanks ;)

PixelBender
06-07-2011, 3:28 PM
Time to head over to the WTB section for some 10/30 pmags in FDE... :/

bwiese
06-07-2011, 5:15 PM
That part I bolded, is absolutely false.
If you owned a large-capacity magazine in CA before 2000, it is perfectly legal to take them out of state and bring them back fully assembled and functional the entire time.

In fact, if you were in possession of a high capacity magazine in CA at any point in time before 2000, even if you weren't a resident, you are still allowed to bring it back into CA.

Correct.

G1500
06-07-2011, 6:48 PM
I know there are other situations where possession of 30round magazines is legal, but from what it sounds like, the only LEGAL way to use 30 round magazines is if you have a featureless rifle. Looks like they wont be leaving the house any time soon as I dont ever plan to build a short-bus rifle, let alone use one in a training class.

Um, sorry, but you already did that by installing a magazine lock on your rifle.

Cokebottle
06-07-2011, 6:55 PM
but the law states that if the magazines leave the state they cant come back in.
Hold the phone...

That is not what the law says.
There is a specific exemption to importation charges by any person "who lawfully possessed the magazines within California" prior to Jan 1 2000.

If you had them prior to the ban and you also had them in California, you can bring them back from out of state today.
What if someone where to say "Hey those aren't legal!" at the range, or if stopped by an on/off duty LEO, how does one handle the situation?
It's never happened to me.
Are they legally allowed to confiscate the magazines?
Only incident to arrest.
Can they arrest you?
They CAN arrest you for spitting on the sidewalk, but they must have a specific charge and evidence of that.

The specific charge would be "importation" or "manufacture"
The only way they would have enough information to arrest would be if you gave it to them.
If asked, whats the best way to handle this situation?
"Thank you for your concern, but I am in legal possession of these magazines."


That said... You MUST NOT use high-caps in a fixed-magazine weapon. That places the gun under assault weapon status and is a bigtime felony. If you have a bullet button on your AR/AK, you must stick with 10rd mags while in California, or reconfigure the rifle to featureless and eliminate the bullet button.

Cokebottle
06-07-2011, 6:57 PM
"Military & Law Enforcement- For Export Use Only"

Does it matter if they say that? If it does the only thing I can think of doing legally is breaking them down.
Hasn't mattered since 2004 when the federal AW ban expired.

It is legal to rebuild an old magazine using modern parts, so the OP could take a magazine that he bought in 1990 and rebuild it with post-ban parts that are marked LE-only that were manufactured in 1999.

Cokebottle
06-07-2011, 7:00 PM
the only LEGAL way to use 30 round magazines is if you have a featureless rifle.
Or handgun, or any other gun that does not have a fixed magazine, such as the Mini-14.
Looks like they wont be leaving the house any time soon as I dont ever plan to build a short-bus rifle, let alone use one in a training class.
Thanks a lot.
You just insulted me and probably half of the members of this forum.

Welcome to my ignore list.

NorCalAthlete
07-20-2011, 2:51 PM
Or handgun, or any other gun that does not have a fixed magazine, such as the Mini-14.

Thanks a lot.
You just insulted me and probably half of the members of this forum.

Welcome to my ignore list.

....you trying to say if he had say, 33 round Glock magazines, he could legally use them in his Glock here? Cause I'm pretty sure that's incorrect...but if I'm wrong please let me know, I'd love to be able to have/use 33 round magazines in my handgun.

jwkincal
07-20-2011, 3:06 PM
If he had 33-round mags that happen to fit his Glock, in his possession, BEFORE 1-1-00 then it would be legal to use them in his pistol.

POSSESSION OF "HI-CAP" MAGS IS NOT ILLEGAL.

Importation, sale, gifting, lending, etc. are all illegal. Possession is not.

IF you install a "hi-cap" mag on your BB-equipped semi-auto rifle, then you have illegally manufactured an assault weapon (by virtue of it having "a fixed magazine with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds").

wash
07-20-2011, 3:07 PM
There are plenty of pre-ban large capacity Glock mags in California, even 33 round Glock 18 magazines.

They are perfectly legal to use in any (non-mag locked) pistol or rifle that is otherwise legal in California.

If you had a Glock with a threaded barrel and mag lock to make it pistol "assault weapon" ban compliant, a 33 round mag would be illegal to use in that gun but any ordinary Glock 17, 19, 26, etc. would be perfectly legal to use with that magazine.

FXR
07-20-2011, 4:55 PM
The only thing I've managed to find is a snipit from RifleGear.com

"The bonus of a featureless rifle is that you can legally use 30 round magazines if you had them in your possession before the ban took effect in 2000."

I know there are other situations where possession of 30round magazines is legal, but from what it sounds like, the only LEGAL way to use 30 round magazines is if you have a featureless rifle. Looks like they wont be leaving the house any time soon as I dont ever plan to build a short-bus rifle, let alone use one in a training class.

It sounds like your class was in Ohio? I don't know anything about their gun laws, but California law can't penalize you for installing a standard mag release on your featured rifle and using full capacity mags in Ohio. As long as you don't run afoul of Ohio law, just spend the 45 seconds to swap in a standard mag button, and make sure you switch it back out before you come back home.

Cokebottle
07-20-2011, 6:36 PM
....you trying to say if he had say, 33 round Glock magazines, he could legally use them in his Glock here? Cause I'm pretty sure that's incorrect...but if I'm wrong please let me know, I'd love to be able to have/use 33 round magazines in my handgun.
Possession and use of high-cap magazines is not a crime, except in a fixed-magazine semiautomatic centerfire rifle or any fixed-magazine pistol.

The crimes are importation, manufacture, keeping for sale, offering for sale, selling/giving/lending.
Lending is legal if the owner is constantly in the magazine's immediate presence. You can allow a friend to borrow your handgun for no longer than 30 days, but any high caps must remain "attached" to you. You can only allow him to take 10 rounders (or less) with him.

I bought my wife a 92FS a few months ago. We have a few 15rd magazines that we've had since somewhere around '95.
Not illegal to use.

NorCalAthlete
07-26-2011, 4:56 PM
AWESOME to know. So no issues with taking 33 rounders to the range for a G26?

Cokebottle
07-26-2011, 7:25 PM
Depending on the range, it may draw some unwanted attention, but it is 100% legal.
Just practice saying "I legally own these magazines and their possession and use is not prohibited"

Munk
07-26-2011, 9:30 PM
AWESOME to know. So no issues with taking 33 rounders to the range for a G26?

i've taken my 15 rounders for a beretta 92F and some 25, and 50 rounders for a 10/22 to ranges without issue. My others have only been used in an informal shooting area (desert BLM land)