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Donny1
06-07-2011, 2:08 PM
<rant>

I am constantly angered by the lack of progress in CA regarding our 2A rights.

It seems the country as a whole is growing to understand the importance of not letting the RKBA slip away, while CA strives to let 2A rights sink deeper into it's grave.

Yes we have made progress but for every step forward it seems there is one step to the side. We no sooner get AB 962 shot down and it's back, wording improved to ensure it will be even harder to beat back this time. We have the attitude of nearly all LE that we are criminals for the mere mentality of wanting to protect ourselves from the threats they admittedly can not prevent. Legislators trying to get CCW while denying our right to do so.

In a huge way I blame myself. Although I am only one vote, one person, I was blind for many years to what has been going on. When I got interested in shooting again a few years ago I realized that the freedom of owning guns, hunting, shooting that I had enjoyed all my life was at risk. Also just the simplest pleasures of enjoying the outdoors was being restricted as well. This has been a big wake up call to me but often times I get the feeling that here in CA it may be too late.

The Calguns Foundation, NRA and other RKBA organizations are fantastic and I am saddened I have not been in a position in the past few years to help them financially. I am working to change that but until then I feel helpless at times to further the 2A cause beyond a simple vote of one.

How is it possible that almost the entire country is heading toward restoring RKBA and CA, with it's stronghold of anti-gun, progressive liberals is able to thwart the entire movement? Will the backlog of pro 2 cases start going our way and topple the wall in front of us, or will this battle never be won here?

I keep reading the old joke, 2 weeks. But it really is getting old. I inquired about San Bernardino's CCW policies a while back because I am interested in applying when I am financially able. Their multiple references, 7 total, one year residency and wanting to contact employers etc. is just another barrier to getting a CCW that many people will not endure. I was told, oh don't worry we're working on it, expect to see something happen soon. Now don't flame me for this but if we can't get some action on this in a county that will issue and just has some issues with their policy being somewhat intrusive, then how much overall progress can really be expected in CA.

Again, please don't think I am criticizing the people that are behind all the hard work that goes into just keeping our heads above water with regard to 2A in CA, I'm not. I am so grateful for every thing they do and as soon as I'm able my money will be flowing to them.

To any and all that would criticize me for these comments please know that will offer my help to anyone who asks for help in the RKBA cause. I do see posts asking for volunteers but my resources are limited. I have felt somewhat ashamed that I have not offered before. So, if you need a body with a semi-intelligent head on it, say the word and I'm in.

</rant>

Vanilla Gorilla
06-07-2011, 2:16 PM
i know how you feel it seems the majority of people are ok with their 2nd amendment rights being trampled on

wjc
06-07-2011, 3:05 PM
i know how you feel it seems the majority of people are ok with their 2nd amendment rights being trampled on

It's not just their 2nd Amendment rights. There are a lot of blissfully ignorant
people in my general location.

Peaceful John
06-07-2011, 3:05 PM
It's easy to think that the actions of a State legislature are equivalent to SCOTUS decisions, but it's not so. While we here in Mordor suffer from one discouraging anti-2A law after another, great judicial progress is being made nationally. Just face east, towards the Shire, and feel the sun on your face.

It was the Shire that gave us Heller in 2008. Among other things, Heller determined that the 2A was an individual as opposed to a collective right, and (because it was the question) possessing a functional firearm in the home became a recognized fundamental right. That was huge.

In 2010, the Shire provided McDonald, which extended Heller to the States.

It's possible, approaching likely, that one year from now, in June, 2012, the Shire will again step forth and we're likely to have a favorable Williams v Maryland. The right to carry a functional firearm for the purposes of self-defense outside the home will be enshrined into law.

A total of four years -- four years -- between CNN infobabes asserting, "Oh, everyone knows it applies only to the malitia" to "Fred, honey, you know that when we're at the beach it's your job to watch the baby. I can't. My shoulder holster is digging into my bikini top." Between Heller and Williams the world will change, and California will be dragged along.

This is no longer a State issue, where we are regularly disappointed; it is a Federal issue and we're so far ahead they can no longer see us. Be of good cheer.

TimRB
06-07-2011, 3:12 PM
The world will change between Heller and Williams. When the world changes, it will drag California, kicking and screaming, along.

That's my belief as well. It took 50 years or so for California to get to where it is now, and we won't be able to turn it around overnight. Here is what I hope the pattern will be:

1) Absurd law (the AWB, say) gets thrown out
2) Gun-grabbers whip themselves into a frenzy--"There'll be blood running in the streets!"
3) Nothing will happen
4) People will forget about it
5) Repeat

Tim

wildhawker
06-07-2011, 3:23 PM
A total of four years between CNN infobabes asserting, "Oh, everyone knows it applies only to the malitia" to "Fred, honey, you know that when we're at the beach it's your job to watch the baby. I can't. My shoulder holster is digging into my bikini top." The world will change between Heller and Williams. When the world changes, it will drag California, kicking and screaming, along.

Be of good cheer.

Indeed, and especially because guns and holsters on bikini-clad infobabes is something to look forward to.

-Brandon

redrex
06-07-2011, 3:27 PM
I feel your pain. I'm up here in Alameda county and the local Sheriff won't even let me apply for a ccw. Tells me I have to go through the Police Chief in Oakland. When I point out that the law clearly states otherwise, I'm told "well that is our policy".

What are you left to do when the duly elected law enforcement official won't even follow the law?

HowardW56
06-07-2011, 3:30 PM
Indeed, and especially because guns and holsters on bikini-clad infobabes is something to look forward to.

-Brandon


:drool5:

HowardW56
06-07-2011, 3:33 PM
I feel your pain. I'm up here in Alameda county and the local Sheriff won't even let me apply for a ccw. Tells me I have to go through the Police Chief in Oakland. When I point out that the law clearly states otherwise, I'm told "well that is our policy".

What are you left to do when the duly elected law enforcement official won't even follow the law?

Email CGF, and be patient, they will initiate a custom tailored re-education program.

It may take a little while, they have many irons in the fire right now...

wildhawker
06-07-2011, 4:08 PM
I feel your pain. I'm up here in Alameda county and the local Sheriff won't even let me apply for a ccw. Tells me I have to go through the Police Chief in Oakland. When I point out that the law clearly states otherwise, I'm told "well that is our policy".

What are you left to do when the duly elected law enforcement official won't even follow the law?

Didn't I mention in another thread how to proceed? If not, PM me your name/phone/email.

-Brandon

zinfull
06-07-2011, 4:10 PM
My main problem of the time line is that it takes the powers a few months to pass asinine laws. Them it takes the people years to over turn them and yet the powers still will not obey the justice system.

jerry

Connor P Price
06-07-2011, 4:30 PM
OP, we all share your frustration, but understand that these things take time. Our battle is one that is fought through the courts and or courts move very slow. With that taken into consideration we are actually moving quite quickly thanks to CGF, SAF, NRA, CRPA, and the many awesome lawyers on our side.

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

hoffmang
06-07-2011, 5:31 PM
The next big step in gun rights will be a carry case coming down from SCOTUS in June 2012 or June 2013 - worst case.

Once you can finally get a carry permit in California, you will start to taste the RKBA freedom.

-Gene

taperxz
06-07-2011, 5:58 PM
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yellowfin
06-07-2011, 6:13 PM
The next big step in gun rights will be a carry case coming down from SCOTUS in June 2012 or June 2013 - worst case.

Once you can finally get a carry permit in California, you will start to taste the RKBA freedom.

-GeneThat will be a starting point for change on the East Coast too. Where I am the problem is lack of belief in that the fight is worth it and will produce the results it says it will. It's too pie in the sky to explain to some people who don't have the patience or nerdish inclination or capacity to understand the legal segues, couple hours of history and civics lecture, etc.--it's all either in the gun store and they can buy it or not in the their store because they can't. People have heard a lot of "not yet" "we're working on it" and their reaction isn't "Ooh wow!" it's instead "Yeah, heard that before. Go play with yourself." People need to really see real change, real people they know buying guns that they couldn't before and carrying them where they previously couldn't--making state governments and/or the federal government do/allow what they wouldn't of their own will.

downfall
06-07-2011, 6:25 PM
I hear you Donny1, I was blessed to spend a few years living in the United States and enjoy my 2nd amendment rights. Unfortunately, family ties brought me back to the DPRK and the nanny state, anti freedom, anti 2nd amendment attitude here makes me long for the United States again.

kazman
06-07-2011, 7:10 PM
Hello? Have you been paying attention to how california has been going down the tubes for years? Not just 2a, worst state for business, jobs leaving. High taxes and fees keep getting approved. Pensions, salaries out of control and unions and special interests controlling the agenda. It's going in the opposite direction of the rest of the country. From Arnold on down, the politicians just play their games and ignore what needs to be done. Even the weather in the bay area isn't as nice as it used to be. Sorry for the rant, but it's just hard to expect (quick) progress on 2a when everything else is so obviously broken and illogical.

Chatterbox
06-07-2011, 9:30 PM
The next big step in gun rights will be a carry case coming down from SCOTUS in June 2012 or June 2013 - worst case.

Once you can finally get a carry permit in California, you will start to taste the RKBA freedom.

-Gene

The problem I see with this is that the carry rights won't happen on June 2012 ( or June 2013). What will likely happen is that Judge Farquad will rule that Supreme Court meant by "carry" covered only handgun carried in one's hands, and having it in the holster meant that it was not not "carried", and therefore illegal. It will then take another 2-3 years for that case to work it's way to to SCOTUS, at which point there wil be a law prohibiting carrying within 2000 feet of a gas station...I think you get my point.

hoffmang
06-07-2011, 9:49 PM
The problem I see with this is that the carry rights won't happen on June 2012 ( or June 2013). What will likely happen is that Judge Farquad will rule that Supreme Court meant by "carry" covered only handgun carried in one's hands, and having it in the holster meant that it was not not "carried", and therefore illegal. It will then take another 2-3 years for that case to work it's way to to SCOTUS, at which point there wil be a law prohibiting carrying within 2000 feet of a gas station...I think you get my point.

This is Battered Gunowner Syndrome.

Not a single home handgun ban save Chicago/Oak Parks's lasted after Heller. The worst case is that some jurisdictions are going to be unresponsive to the fact that their lines are long - but that's just a fun opportunity for us to mess with them with things like TROs.

-Gene

epilepticninja
06-07-2011, 10:02 PM
I was in Arizona over Memorial Day. No 10-day wait period, legal open loaded carry, legal concealed carry w/no permit, no bullet buttons, no mag locks, no 10-round capacity limit. It reminded me why I spent 24 years in uniform fighting for this country's freedom.

Chatterbox
06-07-2011, 11:39 PM
This is Battered Gunowner Syndrome.

Not a single home handgun ban save Chicago/Oak Parks's lasted after Heller. The worst case is that some jurisdictions are going to be unresponsive to the fact that their lines are long - but that's just a fun opportunity for us to mess with them with things like TROs.

-Gene

But do note that the Washington D.C residents still can't buy a handgun three years after Heller and it's taking repeated lawsuits by Gura & Co to stop the obstructiveness of the city council.

hoffmang
06-08-2011, 12:01 AM
But do note that the Washington D.C residents still can't buy a handgun three years after Heller and it's taking repeated lawsuits by Gura & Co to stop the obstructiveness of the city council.

Until about 4 weeks ago, DC residents were buying handguns as quickly as they'd like. Luckily DC is really stupid and we can take advantage of that... Don't confuse idiots playing into our hands with obstructionists.

Mr. Sykes is amazed at DC's attempt to rush him back into business.

-Gene

CharAznable
06-08-2011, 1:49 AM
The next big step in gun rights will be a carry case coming down from SCOTUS in June 2012 or June 2013 - worst case.

Once you can finally get a carry permit in California, you will start to taste the RKBA freedom.

I just wish I was as confident as others are that SCOTUS will rule in our favor. However I'm not pretending this is anything other than my own pessimism as I'm not an expert on the Supremes.

winxp_man
06-08-2011, 5:18 AM
Every time I get on the A2 part of the forum I get depressed and start to get crazy at the same time. Then I remember that there are foundations that are fighting for us to be free. I think that the day will come.

sar_man
06-08-2011, 6:22 AM
The progress is slow but who would have expected 5 years ago that Sacramento would be pretty much shall issue. The county that I live in is marked in black on the CCW map and it appears that it is turning pretty much shall issue. Progress is being made it is just slow.

Mulay El Raisuli
06-08-2011, 7:00 AM
Indeed, and especially because guns and holsters on bikini-clad infobabes is something to look forward to.

-Brandon


Yup.


To the OP; I fully understand your frustration. The progress is slow. Still, you are seeing progress.

Which is worlds better than what I saw from 1972 (when I first became aware of the RKBA) to 2008 (when Heller was decided).

Sit back, have a beer & know that Good Things are coming.


The Raisuli

yellowfin
06-08-2011, 7:56 AM
Not a single home handgun ban save Chicago/Oak Parks's lasted after Heller. Except NYS' which is a ban on ownership without a license that's difficult (tedious, time consuming, and designed to deter) to get and NYC's which is a virtual ban by means of expense, run around, and other deterring factors, and a functional ban because you practically can't do anything with your handgun (can't even take it out of the state or even the same CITY thanks to a NYS court ruling called Beach v. Kelly).

Paladin
06-08-2011, 8:54 AM
<rant>

I am constantly angered by the lack of progress in CA regarding our 2A rights.


Put that anger to good use:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=362574

Time will fly while you're busy doing the things recommended, and before you know it, good things will have happened via the courts.

Donny1
06-08-2011, 10:50 AM
I am a little surprised to find out how many people feel the same as I do on this. As we speak the Open Carry Ban is moving forward. Daily events just make it seem we are going backward.

I do stay hopeful and if my new business works out I will be putting forth some cash to the cause. But, I'm going to give CA 5 more years and if the roster is not gone, CCW is not a reality for the masses and my first AR will require a BB then I'm out of here!

Thanks to everyone for your comments.