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scarville
06-07-2011, 8:33 AM
Maryland --(Ammoland.com)- On May 29, 2011, the Baltimore Police Criminal Intelligence Section issued an “Intelligence Bulletin” warning officers about persons displaying the 2nd Amendment decal pictured here. The bulletin contains the following caption in bold red letters:

“….while the individual who is displaying the symbol may not be armed, the presence of the symbol provides an early warning indicator that you MAY be about to encounter an armed individual.”

Read the rest: Baltimore Police Issue 2nd Amendment Decal Warning (http://www.ammoland.com/2011/06/06/baltimore-police-issue-2nd-amendment-decal-warning/)

Image of advisory
http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Baltimore-Police-2nd-Amendment-Decal-Warning.jpg

Bhobbs
06-07-2011, 8:34 AM
This can't end well...

Crom
06-07-2011, 8:46 AM
This is the equivalent to seeing a bumper sticker for beer and concluding the driver MAY be drinking and driving. The 1st and the 2nd Amendments intersecting.

PatriotnMore
06-07-2011, 8:47 AM
Good God, they may also be armed with the 1st amendment also, approach with extreme caution.

glockman19
06-07-2011, 8:47 AM
WOW...absolutely shameful...

and even more disgusting...it is for "Officer Safety".

G60
06-07-2011, 8:48 AM
Where can I get one?

krucam
06-07-2011, 8:49 AM
We're organizing a "group buy" on these on MD Shooters...I already have one on the back of my SUV....much more subtle than an NRA sticker.
:tt2:

CitaDeL
06-07-2011, 8:49 AM
Silly police. What makes them think that someone without a decal wouldnt be armed? My truck isnt marked in any way with stickers promoting the second amendment. Does that make me any less dangerous than those who proclaim it with an obscure decal-- or one promoting the NRA or any other gun group or firearms manufacturer?

vantec08
06-07-2011, 8:58 AM
Authority + bureaucracy = not a healthy mix

Vandal.
06-07-2011, 9:01 AM
This can't end well...


i was thinking the same thing...

scarville
06-07-2011, 9:06 AM
Where can I get one?
http://www.legallyconcealed.org/

JIC you really didn't know... :)

MrClamperSir
06-07-2011, 9:17 AM
Clearly the bulletin is informational and does not remotely suggest a suppression of Constitutional rights.

Yeah it just suggests that one "MAY" be a danger because they choose to exercise their 1st and 2nd A rights. :rolleyes:

I think all officers aproach anyone on a traffic stop as though they "MAY" be armed. I know I would. I don't see how this bulletin helps any except to single out the good guys and paint them in a bad light.

Chris J
06-07-2011, 9:54 AM
Stupid. Like the really serious bad guys are going to advertise that they have guns with a bumper sticker.

What this sticker really indicates is, "I care about my constitutional rights, and I know the law."

What the bulletin should say is, "While the individual displaying the symbol may not be a lawyer, the presence of the symbol provides an early warning indicator that you MAY be about to encounter an individual who will sue you, the department, and the city if he is unnecessarily hassled."

Maltese Falcon
06-07-2011, 10:10 AM
Cool, never saw this before. Just ordered a couple.

.

nitroxdiver
06-07-2011, 10:11 AM
Stupid. Like the really serious bad guys are going to advertise that they have guns with a bumper sticker.

What this sticker really indicates is, "I care about my constitutional rights, and I know the law."

What the bulletin should say is, "While the individual displaying the symbol may not be a lawyer, the presence of the symbol provides an early warning indicator that you MAY be about to encounter an individual who will sue you, the department, and the city if he is unnecessarily hassled."

Best post ever.

CHS
06-07-2011, 11:11 AM
Remember people, Maryland is another one of those states like California that is downright hostile to the rights of its citizens, especially gun rights.

bwiese
06-07-2011, 11:18 AM
Remember people, Maryland is another one of those states like California that is downright hostile to the rights of its citizens, especially gun rights.

Maryland is actually worse.
Definitionally they may be a tad more slack - i.e, they may allow some other types of guns. But they have a 'specific destination' transport rule.

A traffic stop in MD when transporting (even locked and unloaded) is going to be more dramatic than a traffic stop in CA with a locked/unloaded gun.

IrishPirate
06-07-2011, 11:19 AM
i think it's good for police departments to warn their officers about signs that they might get into a confrontation.....i just don't think that this is one of those signs. You never know though!

I'm MORE worried that an officer would see these stickers, ASSUME there is going to be a confrontation, and harrass the driver.

it's good for cops to know what situations might prove dangerous, but it's bad for them to use them as an excuse to flex muscle.

CEDaytonaRydr
06-07-2011, 11:23 AM
This is precisely why I don't have S&W, Glock or LaRue Tactical stickers on my car. Cops are going to harass you if you do... :rolleyes:

Scott Connors
06-07-2011, 11:29 AM
The Baltimore Police appear to be equating this 2A symbol with gang colors. The resulting implication is that they consider 2A activists to be a criminal conspiracy.

CHS
06-07-2011, 11:30 AM
This is precisely why I don't have S&W, Glock or LaRue Tactical stickers on my car. Cops are going to harass you if you do... :rolleyes:

Haha.. I've had cops wonder what my license plate meant because they weren't gun guys. And I've never once EVER been pulled over or harassed in any way due to my "AR-15" sticker on the tailgate of my truck.

I've never bought the argument that stickers are going to equal harassment.

daveinwoodland
06-07-2011, 11:31 AM
The thank you on the right side of the website for http://www.legallyconcealed.org/ should add "except Baltimore PD"

cdtx2001
06-07-2011, 11:35 AM
The Baltimore Police appear to be equating this 2A symbol with gang colors. The resulting implication is that they consider 2A activists to be a criminal conspiracy.

Surprised they haven't already.

So are the stickers now going to be PC for a traffic stop in MD now? I'm sure some rookie will consider the bulletin as such now.

yellowfin
06-07-2011, 11:59 AM
I suppose they wouldn't like my car having NRA, SCOPE, ARfcom, Gemtech, and Advanced Armament stickers on it.

uyoga
06-07-2011, 12:12 PM
These people REALLY don't like guns!

CEDaytonaRydr
06-07-2011, 12:13 PM
I've never bought the argument that stickers are going to equal harassment.

Have you ever lived in Nor Cal?

...and if the Baltimore PD is issuing bulletins about those stickers, doesn't that prove that cops are going to start looking for them and harassing the occupants of the vehicle?


In other news: I've been to Baltimore recently. They have much more important things to worry about... :rolleyes:

bohoki
06-07-2011, 12:14 PM
this is why disco stu does not advertise

a potleaf sticker would make me assume there is a roach in the ash tray

OleCuss
06-07-2011, 12:30 PM
I dunno about the intelligence of the Intelligence Division.

It seems to me that if you are proudly displaying a 2A sticker that you are probably someone who truly believes in the Constitution and the rights and responsibilities which flow therefrom. That would then imply that if the officer needs help, someone with that sticker in their window is likely to be an asset.

Since I don't hang out with gangs, I never feel safer than when I'm hanging out with a bunch of heavily armed men and women.

CHS
06-07-2011, 12:32 PM
Have you ever lived in Nor Cal?


Yup. I lived in the East Bay (both Lafayette and Moraga). Once, when I was only 19 or so I had a headlight go out on me while in Walnut Creek and got pulled over. The cop harassed me for a few minutes about the headlight but let me go without any ticket after I informed him that I was actually on my way out of the town and to home (I truly was). No harassment or mention of the very visible pro-gun bumper and window stickers.

10 minutes later I got pulled over by the Moraga PD for the same headlight (just two blocks from my home) and the cop was real friendly. He even laughed when I told him about getting pulled over for the same thing just 10 minutes previous in WC.

The gun bumper stickers came up when he saw the advertisement for a store in Concord (can't remember the name of the place now, this was almost 15 years ago) and he asked me what they were like, if I would recommend them for ammo, etc. Very friendly and cordial. The NRA bumper sticker was never mentioned.


a potleaf sticker would make me assume there is a roach in the ash tray

And if you executed a search you would not have had any probable cause and would be in violation of the Constitution.

Not to mention the fact that pot is legal in CA in many cases and transport is allowed, so the "roach in the ash tray" wouldn't automatically be illegal anyways.

It's truly sad how so many Calgunners have a fundamentally flawed view of the Constitution when it comes down to anything outside of the second amendment or anything involving "officers safety".

ccmc
06-07-2011, 12:37 PM
Maryland is actually worse.
Definitionally they may be a tad more slack - i.e, they may allow some other types of guns. But they have a 'specific destination' transport rule.

A traffic stop in MD when transporting (even locked and unloaded) is going to be more dramatic than a traffic stop in CA with a locked/unloaded gun.

Fortunately MD is a small (in area) state so it's easy to drive through under FOPA. All surrounding states (DE, PA, VA, WV) recognize the FL CWFL.

Packy14
06-07-2011, 12:44 PM
I don't put gun related stickers on my car not for fear of the gang in black, but because I don't want criminals to think "he might have a gun in his car that I can steal".

Jack L
06-07-2011, 12:44 PM
The Baltimore Police appear to be equating this 2A symbol with gang colors. The resulting implication is that they consider 2A activists to be a criminal conspiracy.

^^THIS^^ and that's what is concerning about this.

guns4life
06-07-2011, 12:45 PM
Sweet publicity for the people making that sticker, bet they sell like hotcakes now.

POLICESTATE
06-07-2011, 12:57 PM
Baltimore 2nd amendment supporters should give enough of these stickers to their PD to put on the police cars. After all, police are gun owners too :)

Sobriquet
06-07-2011, 1:04 PM
Anyone else notice the picture on that bulletin comes from that company's website? While I suspect that would fall under fair use (I never took copyright/trademark law), I think it would be hysterical if they served Baltimore with a cease and desist.

safewaysecurity
06-07-2011, 1:06 PM
That sticker has been becoming more and more popular. You can get them at legallyconcealed.org

nick
06-07-2011, 1:15 PM
Fortunately MD is a small (in area) state so it's easy to drive through under FOPA. All surrounding states (DE, PA, VA, WV) recognize the FL CWFL.

I'd be careful in Philadelphia though.

Connor P Price
06-07-2011, 1:20 PM
I had a Lapua sticker on the rear window of my old car. That told cops, and everyone for that matter, "watch out, this guy is FANCY!"

Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

ccmc
06-07-2011, 1:22 PM
I'd be careful in Philadelphia though.

The only problem in Philadelphia is OC which is illegal if you don't have a PA permit. PA recognizes FL CWFLs so OC is OK everywhere else if that floats your boat. PA tightened the rules on non-resident permits after March 31 forcing non-residents to apply in person for the PA non-resident permit.

Nick Justice
06-07-2011, 1:29 PM
I don't put gun related stickers on my car not for fear of the gang in black, but because I don't want criminals to think "he might have a gun in his car that I can steal".

Yeah...They may think I have guitars and amps!:D

zhyla
06-07-2011, 1:41 PM
I hope they also issue a bulletin about "... from my cold, dead hands" stickers.

I prefer not to advertise my weapon lust on my car.

Ctwo
06-07-2011, 2:02 PM
When I see flashing lights in my RV mirror (or a police badge), I have with 100% certainty that I will be confronted by an armed individual (or more), and I will have no choice but to endure this confrontation or be faced with force up to and including lethal force. I'm also aware that this individual(s) have received exceptional training in armed deadly force, and they have a high probability that they enjoy that sort of activity as they've chosen it as a profession.

I'm also fairly certain it is unlawful for me to resist any actions or orders issued from this armed individual.

Anchors
06-07-2011, 2:04 PM
Can't wait until my license plate gets here "RKBA 2A".

I'm putting this ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ decal on my car today haha.

yellowfin
06-07-2011, 2:04 PM
I'd be careful in Philadelphia though.Philly isn't so bad, I'm always carrying while there there and have done so without a problem.

sreiter
06-07-2011, 2:12 PM
Not to mention the fact that pot is legal in CA in many cases and transport is allowed, so the "roach in the ash tray" wouldn't automatically be illegal anyways.



i believe it would. I know some people who have MMC and medicating and driving is a no-no

safewaysecurity
06-07-2011, 2:15 PM
Can't wait until my license plate gets here "RKBA 2A".

I'm putting this ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ decal on my car today haha.

That's so epic lol.

CHS
06-07-2011, 2:41 PM
i believe it would. I know some people who have MMC and medicating and driving is a no-no

Medicating while driving (or otherwise in public) is certainly prohibited.

But the presence of MMJ does not equal medicating while driving or in public since the transport of said MMJ is perfectly legal.

epilepticninja
06-07-2011, 2:55 PM
I can't imagine the Founding Fathers ever thinking that one of the constitutional amendments would become an officer safety issue...

bigcalidave
06-07-2011, 3:02 PM
We are probably going to have Calguns license plate frames soon ;)

On another note, while legally concealed says they support 2A, it's not immediately apparent if they do it financially, other than the NRA business alliance thing.

Quser.619
06-07-2011, 3:03 PM
Thanks, cool sticker. Ordered 2 & a patch as well.

wjc
06-07-2011, 3:06 PM
meh.

I already have a sticker like that.

NRA

Calm Down
06-07-2011, 3:11 PM
My agency sent out the same email last week. It was followed by another email regarding the Sovereign Citizens movement. I try to educate other deputies that these groups are drastically different; most listen, some don't.

PatriotnMore
06-07-2011, 3:14 PM
My agency sent out the same email last week. It was followed by another email regarding the Sovereign Citizens movement. I try to educate other deputies that these groups are drastically different; most listen, some don't.

Kudos, thanks for the effort, the more you talk and explain, the better for everyone.

morfeeis
06-07-2011, 3:19 PM
Where can I get one?
i like being the wolf in sheep's clothing idea, i dont want them to know what i do and don't support.....

Stupid. Like the really serious bad guys are going to advertise that they have guns with a bumper sticker.

What this sticker really indicates is, "I care about my constitutional rights, and I know the law."

What the bulletin should say is, "While the individual displaying the symbol may not be a lawyer, the presence of the symbol provides an early warning indicator that you MAY be about to encounter an individual who will sue you, the department, and the city if he is unnecessarily hassled."

So you're saying i shouldn't order any that way i can sue and get that new AR10 i want with the settlement money?


Can't wait until my license plate gets here "RKBA 2A".

I'm putting this ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ decal on my car today haha.
I had no idea what that was till now. i love stuff like that, saying what you want out loud but saying it in a manner that only those in the know understand. i would have gotten that 2A sticker if there was no bulletin sent out to LEA about it.....

The Shadow
06-07-2011, 3:32 PM
Well, James Green's explanation doesn't cut it. If they aren't trying to suppress constitutional rights, then why have the bulletin. The bulletin clearly associates the sticker with an armed person. If the person is legally armed, what's the problem ? If the person carries a firearm illegally, I have serious doubts they will advertise with a sticker. As far as I'm concerned, that flyer needs to go into a file specifically for Baltimore PD, so when they do screw with someone with that sticker on their vehicle, there's more evidence to push back against this kind of growing tyranny.

krucam
06-07-2011, 3:39 PM
Sweet publicity for the people making that sticker, bet they sell like hotcakes now.

Yup...

Taken today from a top secret military base in Maryland.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w32/krucam/2011-06-07_11-55-54_803.jpg

Don29palms
06-07-2011, 4:00 PM
WOW...absolutely shameful...

and even more disgusting...it is for "Officer Safety".

Officer and public safety over ride your 2nd Ammendment right so says the government.

oaklander
06-07-2011, 4:03 PM
Ordered TWO - one for my Dart and one for my harley. I'll let folks know if I end up in jail from putting a sticker on my car. . .

Anchors
06-07-2011, 5:00 PM
That's so epic lol.

Haha I'm stoked. I wish it was a CA plate, but the AZ plates look cooler and they're cheaper and I want to keep my primary residency in Arizona.
Inspired by CHS' awesome license plate haha.

My agency sent out the same email last week. It was followed by another email regarding the Sovereign Citizens movement. I try to educate other deputies that these groups are drastically different; most listen, some don't.

Which agency? (or area if you want to keep it under wraps)
I mean like, California? So Cal/Nor Cal?
Feel free to be vague, I would too if my employers were sending out those emails.
Thanks for trying to educate your peers.


I had no idea what that was till now. i love stuff like that, saying what you want out loud but saying it in a manner that only those in the know understand. i would have gotten that 2A sticker if there was no bulletin sent out to LEA about it.....

I got this one.
It was the coolest one I've seen so far.
Then again, I usually like simplicity as far as cars. I've never had a sticker on my car before haha.

Molon Labe Decal (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110430215354&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1528wt_1139)

sreiter
06-07-2011, 5:34 PM
Medicating while driving (or otherwise in public) is certainly prohibited.

But the presence of MMJ does not equal medicating while driving or in public since the transport of said MMJ is perfectly legal.

We're talking about a roach in the ash tray. Seems like PC to me. I don't remember if it was here or in NJ ( I think here), but I recall a case where someone was drunk, and not wanting to drive, decided to sleep it off in his car. He had turned the car on so he could run the heater. He was convicted for "being in control of a motor vehicle while intoxicated". IIRC, the judge said having access to keys constitute in control. Car doesn't even have to be on


such as In Ohio § 4511.194:

§ 4511.194. Having physical control of vehicle while under influence.

"Physical control" means being in the driver's position of the front seat of a vehicle or in the driver's position of a streetcar or trackless trolley and having possession of the vehicle's, streetcar's, or trackless trolley's ignition key or other ignition device.

No person shall be in physical control of a vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley if, at the time of the physical control, any of the following apply:

(1) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or a combination of them.

(2) The person's whole blood, blood serum or plasma, breath, or urine contains at least the concentration of alcohol specified in division (A)(1)(b), (c), (d), or (e) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code.

sreiter
06-07-2011, 5:38 PM
My agency sent out the same email last week. It was followed by another email regarding the Sovereign Citizens movement. I try to educate other deputies that these groups are drastically different; most listen, some don't.

The sad thing is many equate "the oath keepers" with the SCM

redcliff
06-07-2011, 5:48 PM
I orderred some for my vehicles and some shooting buddies. It's subtle enough that the crack-heads won't understand, and I'm legal enough that I don't fear law enforcement interaction.

The first thing I have to tell an officer if I'm pulled over is that I have a concealed weapon permit and am carrying anyway.

jamesob
06-07-2011, 6:07 PM
lol, when i was a police officer i walked up to every car with the mindset that every individual was armed.

Paul S
06-07-2011, 6:21 PM
Have you ever lived in Nor Cal?

...and if the Baltimore PD is issuing bulletins about those stickers, doesn't that prove that cops are going to start looking for them and harassing the occupants of the vehicle?


In other news: I've been to Baltimore recently. They have much more important things to worry about... :rolleyes:

No friend it does not PROVE they will but it certainly hints they are likely to do so. We'll have to wait and see what sort of feedback we get from our kindred spirits in and around Baltimore.

jeffsenpai
06-07-2011, 6:28 PM
just bought one :D

very slick

Calm Down
06-07-2011, 6:36 PM
Which agency? (or area if you want to keep it under wraps)
I mean like, California? So Cal/Nor Cal?
Feel free to be vague, I would too if my employers were sending out those emails.
Thanks for trying to educate your peers.



Molon Labe Decal (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110430215354&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1528wt_1139)

Nor Cal

The sad thing is many equate "the oath keepers" with the SCM

I might know a guy with an Oath Keepers sticker on the inside of his locker. He must be an extremist.

Spyder
06-07-2011, 8:52 PM
Ordered TWO - one for my Dart and one for my harley. I'll let folks know if I end up in jail from putting a sticker on my car. . .

Dart? Where's the thread on this?

epilepticninja
06-07-2011, 9:04 PM
lol, when i was a police officer i walked up to every car with the mindset that every individual was armed.

QFT.

Bruce
06-07-2011, 9:21 PM
More of the "Us vs. THEM" mentality. Cops today are taught from day one that there are two kinds of people in the world, cops and crooks. There is no third category. If you're not a cop, guess what you are as far as they are concerned?

MikeH1
06-07-2011, 9:27 PM
typical moron PD brass, they make all cops look bad

Dreaded Claymore
06-07-2011, 9:47 PM
Stupid. Like the really serious bad guys are going to advertise that they have guns with a bumper sticker.

What this sticker really indicates is, "I care about my constitutional rights, and I know the law."

What the bulletin should say is, "While the individual displaying the symbol may not be a lawyer, the presence of the symbol provides an early warning indicator that you MAY be about to encounter an individual who will sue you, the department, and the city if he is unnecessarily hassled."

An awesome post indeed! :rofl:

Meplat
06-07-2011, 10:16 PM
"And—the rifle? Wouldn't go out naked of a rifle. When shoes and clothes and food, when even hope is gone, we'll have the rifle.
When grampa came—did I tell you?—he had pepper and salt and a rifle. Nothing else."

I love that sig line! It reminds me of a family history story from that time that I hold dear. But it would be off topic here.:43:

twoyellowlabs
06-07-2011, 10:18 PM
two stickers, patch and hat just ordered. Thanks for the link.

Suvorov
06-07-2011, 10:24 PM
This is precisely why I don't have S&W, Glock or LaRue Tactical stickers on my car. Cops are going to harass you if you do... :rolleyes:

Heck, half the Hillsburough PD officers have LaRue stickers on the backs of their trucks/suvs.

hornswaggled
06-07-2011, 10:44 PM
Gonna order some stuff too. I just hope this isn't some stunt by them to sell more merchandise though.

ojisan
06-07-2011, 10:51 PM
Can't wait until my license plate gets here "RKBA 2A".
I'm putting this ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ decal on my car today haha.

A CalGunner has this one:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/scottwerx/P3160068-1.jpg

Hdawg
06-07-2011, 10:54 PM
We are probably going to have Calguns license plate frames soon ;)

On another note, while legally concealed says they support 2A, it's not immediately apparent if they do it financially, other than the NRA business alliance thing.

I need one of those frames. It will look great with my license plate: 1NRAGUY. I also have a Calguns sticker on my Tahoe. I have received no extra leo interest here in Stanislaus county.:driving:

CEDaytonaRydr
06-07-2011, 11:29 PM
Yup. I lived in the East Bay (both Lafayette and Moraga). Once, when I was only 19 or so....

Your experience was much better than mine.

I was moving to Castro Valley to go to Chabot and on my trip down, I was pulled over by the CHP in Dublin. I was 18 and had all the long guns I owned with me at the time, which consisted of a Ruger 10/22, a Ruger M77 and a Remington 870. The cops detained me for nearly an hour, tore my car apart, frisked me, asked the same questions 3 times by three different cops and they threatened to arrest me when they came across a box of .25 Auto that I had in my ammo bag.

Finding no pistol, they then wanted to seize my long guns so that my Dad could pick them up. When I questioned them as to why, they accused me of arguing with them and recommended that I "Keep my mouth shut". Only when I informed them that my Dad was an Alameda Co Deputy did they back off me. I should have complained about them but I was 18, scared out of my mind and they were letting me go. Also, this was before the days of digital cameras and video (mid 1990s), so I couldn't record the incident.

So, I hadn't even lived there 1 day and I had already been harassed by Bay Area cops. :mad:

And if you executed a search you would not have had any probable cause and would be in violation of the Constitution.

Not to mention the fact that pot is legal in CA in many cases and transport is allowed, so the "roach in the ash tray" wouldn't automatically be illegal anyways.

It's truly sad how so many Calgunners have a fundamentally flawed view of the Constitution when it comes down to anything outside of the second amendment or anything involving "officers safety".Yeah, because cops never violate anyone's constitutional rights.

Besides, it's only after you spend thousands of dollars fighting the case to beat the rap, do you get exonerated. Also, it's your word against the cops' and unless you have photographic, video-graphic or audio evidence, you have a very hard time making your case.

I don't put any stickers on my car that have any political, organizational or racial information on them. For example, I had a buddy who was in the Air Force with me and he had a "Sinaloa" sticker on his car, because his wife was from there. He couldn't figure out why he was getting pulled over at least once a month. He removed the sticker and it stopped almost instantly... ;)

It might not be "right" for cops to do that, but they still do it...

thedrickel
06-07-2011, 11:45 PM
Yup. I lived in the East Bay (both Lafayette and Moraga). Once, when I was only 19 or so I had a headlight go out on me while in Walnut Creek and got pulled over. The cop harassed me for a few minutes about the headlight but let me go without any ticket after I informed him that I was actually on my way out of the town and to home (I truly was). No harassment or mention of the very visible pro-gun bumper and window stickers.

10 minutes later I got pulled over by the Moraga PD for the same headlight (just two blocks from my home) and the cop was real friendly. He even laughed when I told him about getting pulled over for the same thing just 10 minutes previous in WC.

The gun bumper stickers came up when he saw the advertisement for a store in Concord (can't remember the name of the place now, this was almost 15 years ago) and he asked me what they were like, if I would recommend them for ammo, etc. Very friendly and cordial. The NRA bumper sticker was never mentioned.

How much driving did you in SF, Oakland, southern Marin, etc?

I hate to say it but WC, Lafayette, Moraga, is entirely another world.

Midnightblue 72
06-08-2011, 12:25 AM
Reminds me of the "Threat Fusion Center" bulletin that lumped Ron Paul/Barr/pro 2nd amendment/Constitution Supporters/returning vets, w/supporters of White Power and Aryan Brotherhood groups.

Sad.

Mulay El Raisuli
06-08-2011, 7:26 AM
I don't put any stickers on my car that have any political, organizational or racial information on them. For example, I had a buddy who was in the Air Force with me and he had a "Sinaloa" sticker on his car, because his wife was from there. He couldn't figure out why he was getting pulled over at least once a month. He removed the sticker and it stopped almost instantly... ;)

It might not be "right" for cops to do that, but they still do it...


QFT.


The Baltimore Police appear to be equating this 2A symbol with gang colors. The resulting implication is that they consider 2A activists to be a criminal conspiracy.


Yup.


We are probably going to have Calguns license plate frames soon ;)



Is this for real?


The Raisuli

Mulay El Raisuli
06-08-2011, 7:28 AM
We're talking about a roach in the ash tray. Seems like PC to me. I don't remember if it was here or in NJ ( I think here), but I recall a case where someone was drunk, and not wanting to drive, decided to sleep it off in his car. He had turned the car on so he could run the heater. He was convicted for "being in control of a motor vehicle while intoxicated". IIRC, the judge said having access to keys constitute in control. Car doesn't even have to be on


such as In Ohio § 4511.194:

§ 4511.194. Having physical control of vehicle while under influence.

"Physical control" means being in the driver's position of the front seat of a vehicle or in the driver's position of a streetcar or trackless trolley and having possession of the vehicle's, streetcar's, or trackless trolley's ignition key or other ignition device.

No person shall be in physical control of a vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley if, at the time of the physical control, any of the following apply:

(1) The person is under the influence of alcohol, a drug of abuse, or a combination of them.

(2) The person's whole blood, blood serum or plasma, breath, or urine contains at least the concentration of alcohol specified in division (A)(1)(b), (c), (d), or (e) of section 4511.19 of the Revised Code.


Its not quite that cut & dried. I know of a case where the jury acquitted the non-driver.


The Raisuli

Wherryj
06-08-2011, 8:55 AM
lol, when i was a police officer i walked up to every car with the mindset that every individual was armed.

So I guess that my idea for putting an "Obama 2008" and a "Brady Bunch" sticker on my car wouldn't work to ensure that all police officers assumed that I was never carrying a firearm? It would only work with the ones that assume that a pink gun is an airsoft?

yellowfin
06-08-2011, 9:19 AM
Officer and public safety over ride your 2nd Ammendment right so says the government.They justified segregation as a matter of public safety and police powers in Plessy v. Ferguson. To date, no one has called them out on that.

DisgruntledReaper
06-08-2011, 9:30 AM
You want to get hassled...try running the old.. 'bad cop...no donut' decal from years ago...

FastFinger
06-08-2011, 11:26 AM
This is a good time to reprint an editorial that ran in "Cop Magazine." At the bottom I've linked to a pdf if you'd like to reprint this to share with your LEO friends.
--------------------------
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5757/policebadge2a.png
Cops and the 2nd Amendment
by Suzi Huntington

Our forefathers really knew how to speak eloquently — if only they realized how their beautiful words would become twisted in modern society. The debate over their meaning rages on and you and I must continue to navigate the minefield of new gun created every year. Depending upon who’s controlling the House and Senate, the laws ebb and flow much like the ocean tide on a sandy beach. Can I carry today, tomorrow, next Tuesday or when I’m retired? Who’s on first? Why has this become such a confusing subject?


Constitution For Beginners
Although there are a total of 27 amendments, the first ten are what we’re most familiar with and referred to as The Bill of Rights. These ten amendments were proposed March 4, 1789 and ratified December 15, 1791. All laws, new and old, have their roots in the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution and should not be taken lightly.

The Second Amendment has been interpreted so much and by so many it makes my head spin. Each time it’s reinterpreted it seems to have about a dozen extra special interest groups adding their two cents-worth because one person was tragically killed by some turd who should have been exterminated years ago. I’m not heartless, I’m just tired of seeing the special “So-and-so Act of Whenever” being passed with much fanfare as a feel-good, this is gonna solve our society’s problems legislation. These laws generally only add extra penalties onto the sentences of those same turds who don’t respect anything or anybody already — they have no effect on their mindset when deciding to victimize innocents.

I think of the Second Amendment as a means for society not only being able to fend for itself, but as one more way of helping you and I on the street. Society has the right and should be expected to take care of themselves. We’ve made too many people dependent on government to do everything for them. I hated all that responsibility when I was on the street and resented it when the community blamed me (the government) for their victimization. I loved it when someone would step in and help quell crime — especially if they were using their rightfully owned gun to do it! We should applaud the people who confront and claim victory over bad guys. Shake the hand and thank the storeowner or clerk who nails the wouldbe robber. Yeah, what they did is dangerous, but it’s their right to protect themselves and others. They don’t have to wait in the equally dangerous situation for one of us to show up and save them. Think about it, they’re taking action. Good vs. evil, and right and wrong must be important to them. Cops are minutes away — when seconds count.

Good For The Goose
Every citizen living in and wanting to keep their state free should be allowed to keep and bear arms, plain and simple. No elitist attitude in that statement. Remember, you and I are citizens first, cops second. There should be none of this “I can carry a gun whenever I want because I’m a cop, but you can’t” mentality. What’s good for us is good for The People too. Society is just as responsible for knowing what’s right and wrong; the only difference between them and us is we’ve got a little more training on the subject and have chosen to be in this profession.

Since moving to a much smaller community than San Diego, I put myself in the boots of the local cops here and think if I were patrolling this vast rural area, I’d feel a comfort in knowing the community was well armed (and they are). My cover unit might have to respond from a neighboring county. If Mr. Smith happened to hear the commotion and showed up with his lever action .30-30 to help my sorry butt, I’d be most appreciative. It’s a simple idea and one I think our founding fathers meant to keep simple. It’s those who don’t want to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty who want to disarm society. They’ve convinced themselves they’ll be taken care of by someone or something else, but I can tell you we simply can’t take care of everybody and everything. I want people to be empowered to take back their lives, to stand up and be responsible for every aspect of their lives — including their safety.


Reprinted with permission - American Cop Magazine - Nov/Dec 2009 - www.AmericanCopMagazine.com


Click the image below to download a PDF copy:

http://dc398.4shared.com/img/6iJ6B4J9/0.20214939723028813/American_Cop_Magazine.pdf (http://www.4shared.com/document/6iJ6B4J9/American_Cop_Magazine.html)

cfm117
06-09-2011, 10:59 AM
A good friend of mine who is an officer of a city PD in Ventura County told me this morning they got the memo yesterday. He said they were warned about a bunch of "2A wackjobs calling themselves Legallyconcealed," and to keep an eye out for the sticker on the back window and excercise caution. Yay.

Glock22Fan
06-09-2011, 11:13 AM
Maybe we should get thousands of these and go around parking lots unobtrusively sticking them on rear fenders :rolleyes: Maybe concentrating on cars with Obama stickers :D

Probably most owners will not spot them until the police pull them over and hassle them (maybe not even then unless the cops point them out).

jimx
06-09-2011, 4:41 PM
A good friend of mine who is an officer of a city PD in Ventura County told me this morning they got the memo yesterday. He said they were warned about a bunch of "2A wackjobs calling themselves Legallyconcealed," and to keep an eye out for the sticker on the back window and excercise caution. Yay.


Can you get the memo and post it?

winxp_man
06-09-2011, 5:46 PM
This is gonna get crazy when the SHTF............ The government is starting to enforce that there is no need for self defense is getting really scary out here. I really wonder how far crap like this gonna go.

TBDesigns
06-09-2011, 5:48 PM
I can design some for us :D

drbob
06-09-2011, 5:51 PM
This doesn't seem to be such a bad thing... Or at least it wouldn't be if this wasn't Baltimore /:

It seems to me that this might lead to fewer officers being surprised or flustered if the person they pull over is carrying, which might in turn lead to less misunderstanding or unnecessary pat-downs.

I know I'm probably just naive...

NoJoke
06-09-2011, 6:05 PM
So....wait.

The 2a supporters are a threat to the police?

REALLY?

Jeez louise.......how are these connections being made? :confused:

Why can't this be called out as completely fallacious profiling? Is there ANY evidence for the claim? I mean ANY ???

Maestro Pistolero
06-09-2011, 11:12 PM
I just emailed the BPD:

2A Memo:

Dear Sirs/Madams,

If your department had put out a memo to it's officers that said "If you are getting your rear-end kicked in the field, and you see one of these little 2A stickers, it's probably a good guy that will help you" it might have actually done something to contribute to officer safety.

Thanks for listening,
Christopher Hoffman

Anchors
06-10-2011, 12:15 AM
I orderred some for my vehicles and some shooting buddies. It's subtle enough that the crack-heads won't understand, and I'm legal enough that I don't fear law enforcement interaction.

The first thing I have to tell an officer if I'm pulled over is that I have a concealed weapon permit and am carrying anyway.

In California?
I thought you weren't required to do that with most CA CCWs?
Or most CCWs in general...

Nor Cal



I might know a guy with an Oath Keepers sticker on the inside of his locker. He must be an extremist.

Wow, so it hit CA. I don't see how that sticker is any different from an NRA sticker.
And I'm guessing the "guy you know" is probably you haha.

I love that sig line! It reminds me of a family history story from that time that I hold dear. But it would be off topic here.:43:

If it relates to firearms, it can't be that OT.
If not, who cares!
I like a good family story.

A CalGunner has this one:
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/scottwerx/P3160068-1.jpg

Nice!
I will post a picture when mine comes in.
I like that one.

Your experience was much better than mine.

I was moving to Castro Valley to go to Chabot and on my trip down, I was pulled over by the CHP in Dublin. I was 18 and had all the long guns I owned with me at the time, which consisted of a Ruger 10/22, a Ruger M77 and a Remington 870. The cops detained me for nearly an hour, tore my car apart, frisked me, asked the same questions 3 times by three different cops and they threatened to arrest me when they came across a box of .25 Auto that I had in my ammo bag.

Finding no pistol, they then wanted to seize my long guns so that my Dad could pick them up. When I questioned them as to why, they accused me of arguing with them and recommended that I "Keep my mouth shut". Only when I informed them that my Dad was an Alameda Co Deputy did they back off me. I should have complained about them but I was 18, scared out of my mind and they were letting me go. Also, this was before the days of digital cameras and video (mid 1990s), so I couldn't record the incident.

So, I hadn't even lived there 1 day and I had already been harassed by Bay Area cops. :mad:

Yeah, because cops never violate anyone's constitutional rights.

Besides, it's only after you spend thousands of dollars fighting the case to beat the rap, do you get exonerated. Also, it's your word against the cops' and unless you have photographic, video-graphic or audio evidence, you have a very hard time making your case.

I don't put any stickers on my car that have any political, organizational or racial information on them. For example, I had a buddy who was in the Air Force with me and he had a "Sinaloa" sticker on his car, because his wife was from there. He couldn't figure out why he was getting pulled over at least once a month. He removed the sticker and it stopped almost instantly... ;)

It might not be "right" for cops to do that, but they still do it...

Careful, some people consider that LEO bashing here (doesn't matter if you are a LEO, your dad is a LEO, or you support LEOs).

That is a terrible story. I'm glad you were able to invoke your dad's brass pass. I am interested in LE and I know it happens, how can it not? It happens in all walks of life and all professions. It isn't like there is some magical portion of LE training that strips your beliefs (even if they are racist/wrong).
I was wary of stickers and what not too, but recently I ordered that license plate (RKBA 2A) and put a MOLON LABE sticker on my car. I also put an NRA sticker on, but it is under the tint so you can't see it when it is parked at night (keeps the crackheads away) but you can see it with your headlights behind it or in daytime. Kind of cool.
I decided to use symbols that people that know will understand, but random folks probably won't.
That said, I wear my CALGUNS.NET shirt all the time when I'm not working, I'm just weird about having "guns" on my car with all the crooks these days (and a few bad LEOS).

As for the Sinaloa sticker, that may have been a legit concern on LE's part. They may have thought he was involved with Sinaloa Cartel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel)

A good friend of mine who is an officer of a city PD in Ventura County told me this morning they got the memo yesterday. He said they were warned about a bunch of "2A wackjobs calling themselves Legallyconcealed," and to keep an eye out for the sticker on the back window and excercise caution. Yay.

Wow, "2A wackjobs". Classy.
Do they realize that isn't any less offensive than people calling them "pigs"?
We're just supporting what we believe, which is a fundamental right in America no less. It isn't like we're a secessionist movement or something lol.
And again, how is that different from an NRA sticker?
The name is LEGALLY concealed, I mean come on.

Can you get the memo and post it?

Yeah, I would love to see that...the PD memos here are always a good read.

I just emailed the BPD:

2A Memo:

Dear Sirs/Madams,

If your department had put out a memo to it's officers that said "If you are getting your rear-end kicked in the field, and you see one of these little 2A stickers, it's probably a good guy that will help you" it might have actually done something to contribute to officer safety.

Thanks for listening,
Christopher Hoffman

Sorry, but I have to take issue with apart of that...
Thinking a CCW means you should try to "help police in the field" is a really bad idea.
They are likely to shoot you before you can sort out the details with them.
I carry (when in AZ) to protect myself, my friends/family, and yes, random people around me if there is no LEO support.
But running into an LE situation/shoot out with your weapon out is a really really bad idea and is actually a complaint that many LE organizations have cited AGAINST CCW.

Maestro Pistolero
06-10-2011, 12:48 AM
Sorry, but I have to take issue with apart of that...
Thinking a CCW means you should try to "help police in the field" is a really bad idea.
They are likely to shoot you before you can sort out the details with them. . . . . .

. . . But running into an LE situation/shoot out with your weapon out is a really really bad idea and is actually a complaint that many LE organizations have cited AGAINST CCW.If you think I was suggesting interfering with an officer or running into a crime scene with your gun drawn, you must have smoked the whole thing.

The obvious point with this email is that 2A supporters tend to be trustworthy, law abiding folks. IF ANYTHING, a 2A sticker ought to lower the concern of officers. Taken as a group, CCW holders (an even narrower group of 2A supporters) are so law abiding, that if you could superimpose their crime rate on the rest of the country it would represent an exponential improvement in public safety.

To warn officers that a person might be dangerous because of a 2A sticker on their vehicle is divisive, ill-informed, insulting, and plain incorrect.

Dear Sirs/Madams,

If your department had put out a memo to it's officers that said "If you are getting your rear-end kicked in the field, and you see one of these little 2A stickers, it's probably a good guy that will help you" it might have actually done something to contribute to officer safety.

Thanks for listening,
Christopher Hoffman

louderthangod
06-10-2011, 7:18 AM
When I was 18 I drove a '69 Cadillac Coup DeVille (cool but ran poorly and was an ugly shade of brown). I also had a pretty large white guy 'fro and since I was in college and didn't always have early classes I'd often make Taco Bell runs at 2 or 3am or I would drive around with my rainbow coalition group of friends and I'd get pulled over constantly and often with the lamest of excuses. It was definitely eye opening to see such blatant profiling. I've also had many positive experiences with the police including times when they could have busted me for various things but didn't. It's just as wrong to pull someone over and treat them like a hostile threat just as it's wrong to pull someone over for being guilty of nothing more than "driving while black" (or latino or white trash).

Chris J
06-10-2011, 11:02 AM
Put one of these 2A stickers, an Obama sticker, an ACLU sticker, a Glock sticker, an NRA sticker, and a Brady sticker on your car. If you can find a LEO as dumb as the guy who wrote the OP memo, it will either make their head explode or while they are busy reading you can drive away.

Ah, forget it. I've never come across a LEO that dumb.

Speaking of that, how many of the Baltimore cops had to laugh when they got the memo?

jeff762
06-10-2011, 11:45 AM
Maybe we should get thousands of these and go around parking lots unobtrusively sticking them on rear fenders :rolleyes: Maybe concentrating on cars with Obama stickers :D

Probably most owners will not spot them until the police pull them over and hassle them (maybe not even then unless the cops point them out).



don't forget to concentrate on the cars with brady stickers.

Glock22Fan
06-10-2011, 12:32 PM
don't forget to concentrate on the cars with brady stickers.

Don't think I've ever seen one of those.

tiki
06-10-2011, 12:48 PM
I'm glad thy sent the bulletin. I got a hat and sticker.
FTW!

willm952
06-10-2011, 1:04 PM
Have you ever lived in Nor Cal?

In other news: I've been to Baltimore recently. They have much more important things to worry about... :rolleyes:

Been like that since before '93 when I was there.
Took a taxi from bwi to Johns Hopkins > street brawl
taxi driver got out to ***** them out. I was at the colonade apts walking to the rotunda and this car side swipes a parked car drivers dazed. I hear sirens driver wakes up and peels out. What a wonderful place and that's with a curfew. There is a wrong side of the tracks there. Its everywhere.

Boring too. #1 literacy rate in the nation. The hangout is borders. #2 murder rate. Literacy and murder. Never thought the two would go together like that. Just stay out!

dantodd
06-10-2011, 1:09 PM
While I would never advocate or do such a thing....

The most entertaining place to apply such a bumper sticker would be to cars that say "To Protect and Serve" on the side.

FastFinger
06-10-2011, 1:10 PM
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5232/2abaltimore.png

dantodd
06-10-2011, 1:58 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^

I don't care who you are that there is funny.

Write Winger
06-10-2011, 2:34 PM
^^^^ditto lol

Anchors
06-10-2011, 10:29 PM
^lol +3

If you think I was suggesting interfering with an officer or running into a crime scene with your gun drawn, you must have smoked the whole thing.

The obvious point with this email is that 2A supporters tend to be trustworthy, law abiding folks. IF ANYTHING, a 2A sticker ought to lower the concern of officers. Taken as a group, CCW holders (an even narrower group of 2A supporters) are so law abiding, that if you could superimpose their crime rate on the rest of the country it would represent an exponential improvement in public safety.

To warn officers that a person might be dangerous because of a 2A sticker on their vehicle is divisive, ill-informed, insulting, and plain incorrect.

I agree, but you said this...

I just emailed the BPD:

2A Memo:

Dear Sirs/Madams,

If your department had put out a memo to it's officers that said "If you are getting your rear-end kicked in the field, and you see one of these little 2A stickers, it's probably a good guy that will help you" it might have actually done something to contribute to officer safety.

Thanks for listening,
Christopher Hoffman

So I was just going off of what your post said or what I thought it implied.
If that wasn't your intention then I am sorry, but I feel that the Baltimore PD will probably read it the same way I did....

Maestro Pistolero
06-11-2011, 1:39 AM
^lol +3

I agree, but you said this...

So I was just going off of what your post said or what I thought it implied.
If that wasn't your intention then I am sorry, but I feel that the Baltimore PD will probably read it the same way I did....
I hope not, it wasn't intended that way. The 2A sticker ought to be reassuring, not threatening. My whole point.

It's all good.

Tarn_Helm
06-11-2011, 3:38 PM
Silly police. What makes them think that someone without a decal wouldnt be armed? My truck isnt marked in any way with stickers promoting the second amendment. Does that make me any less dangerous than those who proclaim it with an obscure decal-- or one promoting the NRA or any other gun group or firearms manufacturer?

I never use any stickers on anything.

Why draw attention to what is most advantageously kept undisclosed?
:cool2:

redcliff
06-11-2011, 4:17 PM
It's hard to understand why an Officer that has sworn to defend the Constitution of the United States would take issue with people who are actively supporting the Constitution's 2nd Amendment.

"I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I
will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the
Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and
domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the
United States and the Constitution of California; that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will
well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which I am about to enter."

HondaMasterTech
06-11-2011, 4:41 PM
Instead of a warning that a sticker showing support for the 2nd Amendment suggests the possibility that the occupant MAY be armed, how about a reminder that this is America and the Constitution still exists. That seems a bit more appropriate.

Anchors
06-11-2011, 7:30 PM
It's hard to understand why an Officer that has sworn to defend the Constitution of the United States would take issue with people who are actively supporting the Constitution's 2nd Amendment.

"I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I
will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the
Constitution of the State of California against all enemies, foreign and
domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of the
United States and the Constitution of California; that I take this obligation
freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will
well and faithfully discharge the duties upon which I am about to enter."

That oath is just a formality for some LE/Mil personnel these days.
Sadly.

Just a stupid ceremonial thing to get out of the way, with no real value....

packnrat
06-11-2011, 11:43 PM
now why would i want to advertise what i am into?
a crook could understand what this says and break into my car/truck looking for a gun.:eek:

officer safety my ...how about MY safety.

:TFH:

Patriot Man
06-12-2011, 12:06 AM
Notice the message sent to police from the bulletin- citizens with guns are bad and dangerous. Now if the top brass got up and actually said that this might lead to a debate and thinking LEO might challenge that-that's way too messy. So instead they make a statement to these Maryland PD without having to risk any resistance. The message that "citizens with guns are potentially confrontational and dangerous" was implied in the warning: "while the individual who is displaying the symbol may not be armed, the presence of the symbol provides an early warning indicator that you MAY be about to encounter an armed individual.”
Notice how this form of communication is so effective with the masses. Let's skip all intellectual debate of topics and just imply what we believe through false warnings, innuendos and associations. Very subtle and very powerful.

Anchors
06-12-2011, 4:15 AM
Notice the message sent to police from the bulletin- citizens with guns are bad and dangerous. Now if the top brass got up and actually said that this might lead to a debate and thinking LEO might challenge that-that's way too messy. So instead they make a statement to these Maryland PD without having to risk any resistance. The message that "citizens with guns are potentially confrontational and dangerous" was implied in the warning: "while the individual who is displaying the symbol may not be armed, the presence of the symbol provides an early warning indicator that you MAY be about to encounter an armed individual.”
Notice how this form of communication is so effective with the masses. Let's skip all intellectual debate of topics and just imply what we believe through false warnings, innuendos and associations. Very subtle and very powerful.

Hypothetical LAPD bulletin: "A male wearing red clothing MIGHT be a member of the 'Bloods' gang, which is primarily an African American gang. Please exercise caution."

It sounds much less racist than

"Most young black guys with red clothes are gang-bangers and you should treat them as such during interactions".

Misleading with euphemisms annoys me so much.

Broadhead
06-12-2011, 7:49 AM
Why do the people with guns always question why citizens have guns?

Patriot Man
06-12-2011, 10:19 AM
Why do the people with guns always question why citizens have guns?

To be accurate they don't always do that. Plenty of good cops (LEO), military etc. It's when those persons question why citizens have guns we should be concerned.

cmichini
06-12-2011, 10:32 AM
The police are NOT your friend. EVER.

PCPerks
06-12-2011, 10:59 AM
The police are NOT your friend. EVER.

Thats a pretty ugly statement to be making. It's comments like that and perpetuating that type of blanket condemnation to a certain group that causes hate the same way as racism.

(You can have whatever opinion you want but don't expect everyone to agree with you. Just like this response is my opinion.)

The police and sheriffs are not robots and do make mistakes. They're not perfect and with the budget situations are definitely not as well trained as they should be. I've had interaction with plenty of different law enforcement agencies from local PD's, Sheriff deputies, too many from the CHP since I tend to drive fast, and even some federal agencies. And other then a couple tickets, I've had ZERO bad experiences.

If you are doing nothing illegal, then you should not have any fear of the police.

What you should have fear of is the politicians who continue to pass bad laws that erode out rights. Get involved in that process rather then lash out with this kind of uneducated blanked statement.

And thanks to the folks at CGF and all the other pro 2A organizations, the pressure is already on.

CitaDeL
06-12-2011, 11:03 AM
If you are doing nothing illegal, then you should not have any fear of the police.

If you are doing nothing illegal and the police are contacting you anyway, you should still be guarding your liberty with firm resolve. If police are advesarial to this reasonable defensive posture, then they are not your friend.

aklover_91
06-12-2011, 11:14 AM
@PCPerks

In the few interactions I've had with law enforcement, I've always been respectful and polite, and I do tend to respect cops and the jobs they do.

All the same, with the state of things today, I still won't consent to anything without a warrant or volunteer information about myself beyond basic information. I don't have anything to hide per se, but there are so many laws it's not impossible to imagine hanging yourself for a crime you didn't even realize existed.

PCPerks
06-12-2011, 11:44 AM
If you are doing nothing illegal and the police are contacting you anyway, you should still be guarding your liberty with firm resolve. If police are advesarial to this reasonable defensive posture, then they are not your friend.

You're right that those that are adversarial are not your friend. But to say that ALL POLICE are not your friend is simply wrong. It's like me telling my 13 year old that no matter what not to go to the police for help because they're not your friend.

I'm trying to get the point across that a broad statement condemning ALL POLICE is wrong.

Scott Connors
06-12-2011, 11:58 AM
I never use any stickers on anything.

Why draw attention to what is most advantageously kept undisclosed?
:cool2:

^^^^^^This. While NRA stickers got me out of tickets back in the Free World (western PA, GA, SC, FL), right now the only difference between Cali and the old USSR, as far as things that go BANG are concerned, is that the toilet paper is softer and the winters are milder.

scarville
06-12-2011, 1:37 PM
This is gonna get crazy when the SHTF............ The government is starting to enforce that there is no need for self defense is getting really scary out here. I really wonder how far crap like this gonna go.
I suspect it will continue until two things happen.

First, Americans realize they are Americans.

Second, they start to act like it.

Anchors
06-12-2011, 4:48 PM
Why do the people with guns always question why citizens have guns?

Classism and not he traditional religious-economic kind.
Not all cops are like that, but they do exist.
Most of the anti-gun cops weren't into guns before the academy and are pretty terrible shots (100 rounds a year to qualify isn't very much practice).
That is why I resent the Brady type's argument "well police have more training", excuse me? But how is minimum qualification standards more training (note: I know many police officers do train outside the minimum, but many also don't).

To be accurate they don't always do that. Plenty of good cops (LEO), military etc. It's when those persons question why citizens have guns we should be concerned.

True.

The police are NOT your friend. EVER.

I wouldn't say ever, but unless they are first responders to a scene where you are the victim of a crime or need medical attention (cops show up before medics and do CPR, check vitals, etc all the time), it would behoove you to keep your mouth shut. And I have been told this by cops themselves, so I know it isn't just paranoia.

The police are your friend when you need a friend, but if you aren't in need of help yourself, keep your mouth shut.


If you are doing nothing illegal, then you should not have any fear of the police.

Wrong. Ask any of the members here who have been arrested with bullet buttons or had their firearms seized improperly. You have a lot to fear whether you are doing something legal or not.
Knowing your rights and the law is paramount. Most cops are good people, but some aren't and there is no way ahead of time to tell who is going to get the call.

I am not anti-LEO, in fact, I am interested in LE.

HBrebel
06-13-2011, 4:16 PM
The Baltimore Police appear to be equating this 2A symbol with gang colors. The resulting implication is that they consider 2A activists to be a criminal conspiracy.

were you not aware of the fact that by owning a firearm, networking with others regarding firearms, attending rallies, wearing/sporting second amendment "propaganda" you are assumed to be a radical or potential insurgent? Next time you wear that NRA shirt or second amendment or patriot hat, look around and watch peoples eyes. I wear a GOA shirt that says It's not a privilege, it's a RIGHT. 0 compliments or "right ons", lots of suspicious looks. Or...could it be... that I am just....another...paranoid ..gun totin' conspiracy theorist? mmmmmmmmwwwwwwwaaaahahahhahaha

Glock22Fan
06-13-2011, 5:42 PM
were you not aware of the fact that by owning a firearm, networking with others regarding firearms, attending rallies, wearing/sporting second amendment "propaganda" you are assumed to be a radical or potential insurgent? Next time you wear that NRA shirt or second amendment or patriot hat, look around and watch peoples eyes. I wear a GOA shirt that says It's not a privilege, it's a RIGHT. 0 compliments or "right ons", lots of suspicious looks. Or...could it be... that I am just....another...paranoid ..gun totin' conspiracy theorist? mmmmmmmmwwwwwwwaaaahahahhahaha

I wear a "Those Shirts" "Celebrate Diversity" t-shirt (http://www.thoseshirts.com/diversity.html). I've had a number of complements and no suspicious looks (at least not to my face). The pictures of lots of handguns are on the back of my white one, though. It looks as if it is now printed on the front and that they also have blue as well as black and white.

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/rect-diversitybk.jpg

bigcalidave
06-13-2011, 5:44 PM
I only wear Calguns shirts, and I get a ton of comments / compliments from you wonderful members. Nobody has ever said "eeew guns" to me.

HondaMasterTech
06-13-2011, 6:01 PM
I wear a "Those Shirts" "Celebrate Diversity" t-shirt (http://www.thoseshirts.com/diversity.html). I've had a number of complements and no suspicious looks (at least not to my face). The pictures of lots of handguns are on the back of my white one, though. It looks as if it is now printed on the front and that they also have blue as well as black and white.

http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/rect-diversitybk.jpg

I like it!

Quser.619
06-13-2011, 10:34 PM
Got my 2 stickers & patch today.

The stickers are about the size of a business card & the bars & 2 are reflective - I believe. The patch is great - going on my EDC bag or one of my tacticool hats.

Maestro Pistolero
06-13-2011, 11:19 PM
My previous email to the BPD:

2A Memo:

Dear Sirs/Madams,

If your department had put out a memo to it's officers that said "If you are getting your rear-end kicked in the field, and you see one of these little 2A stickers, it's probably a good guy that will help you" it might have actually done something to contribute to officer safety.

Thanks for listening,
Christopher Hoffman

The BPD response:

2A Memo:


On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:50 AM, Sean Parks <Sean.Parks@BaltimorePolice.org> wrote:

Sir,

Can you please better explain your complaint?

My reply:
Yes of course. Your department recently issued a memo warning officers that second amendment advocates may be armed and presumably dangerous.

The notion that groups of individuals who advocate for the second amendment are somehow more dangerous than the population at large is ill informed, ludicrous, and downright incorrect.

Which brings me to the point of my e-mail. If anything, those who posess enough social consciousness to advocate for any constitutional amendment are probably far less dangerous than the population at large.

Therefore , your memo may have been more accurate had it pointed out that those individuals with the little "2A" sticker on their car might be friendly to law enforcement rather than some kind of imagined threat.

And, lastly, the memo is revealing of a mindset that serves to divide the second amendment community from the law enforcement community. This is unnecessary.

The second amendment community is the natural ally of law enforcement. Indeed many law enforcement officers are supporters of the Second Amendment.

I hope that clarifies my complaint

Christopher Hoffman
Sent from my iPhone

DPC
06-13-2011, 11:24 PM
Warning guy's our Constitutional freedoms are now a threat to the powers that be.

Hunt
06-13-2011, 11:38 PM
the police must realize how stupid these warnings are, if they do indeed take this kind of nonsense seriously we have a big problem as a country. What a waste of tax payer dollars.

CEDaytonaRydr
06-14-2011, 1:10 AM
Careful, some people consider that LEO bashing here (doesn't matter if you are a LEO, your dad is a LEO, or you support LEOs).

...and they can call it what they want to. That doesn't stop it from being 100% true. Honestly, I wish it hadn't have happened. It cured me of ever wanting to be a cop. I used to have ideas of following in the old man's footsteps. That cured me...

That is a terrible story. Happens every day and very little is ever done to stop it. This is why being able to photograph and video cops is so important. It gets the "bad apples" out of the bunch.

As for the Sinaloa sticker, that may have been a legit concern on LE's part. They may have thought he was involved with Sinaloa Cartel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinaloa_Cartel)


I doubt they were trying to make that connection. It's more of a financial decision, I think. Kinda like a pot leaf on the back of a car. That might suggest to the officer that there could be some weed on the driver's person. He doesn't even have to be a detective to figure that one out.. ;)

hornswaggled
06-14-2011, 1:26 AM
Got my trucker cap today. It's not the best quality, the patch is stitched on slightly crooked, but screw it. It's a range hat and one to wear to gun shows.

safewaysecurity
06-14-2011, 1:35 AM
How much driving did you in SF, Oakland, southern Marin, etc?

I hate to say it but WC, Lafayette, Moraga, is entirely another world.

I don't understand. Are you saying SF, Oakland, and southern Marin are better than WC, Lafayette and Moraga or vice versa?

xrMike
06-14-2011, 11:04 AM
I never use any stickers on anything. Why draw attention to what is most advantageously kept undisclosed?That's OK man -- it's perfectly alright to stay in the closet, if that's what is best for you right now. Everybody has their own clock in these matters.

You will 'come out' when the time is right, loud and proud!

Maestro Pistolero
06-14-2011, 11:13 AM
That's OK man -- it's perfectly alright to stay in the closet, if that's what is best for you right now. Everybody has their own clock in these matters.

You will 'come out' when the time is right, loud and proud!

There's a big difference between being in the closet, and not wanting to broadcast your views to the general public on the back of your vehicle.

On the one hand you are actively hiding your views. On the other, you're simply not broadcasting them to anyone behind your car.

jeffsenpai
06-14-2011, 5:51 PM
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt217/jeffsenpai/397377841_photobucket_37281_.jpg

CHS
06-14-2011, 5:58 PM
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt217/jeffsenpai/397377841_photobucket_37281_.jpg

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!































You drive a FORD?!! ;)

smn
06-14-2011, 6:20 PM
Here's my response:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-M6LFbfAqZ6k/TfgVdnHtwMI/AAAAAAAA408/619S4Wq7big/Donut1.jpg
ALL CITIZENS SHOULD BE FAMILIAR WITH THIS SYMBOL WHEN DEALING WITH POLICE DURING TRAFFIC STOPS. WHILE THE OFFICER MAY NOT BE EATING THE PRESENCE OF THIS SYMBOL INDICATES YOU MAY BE ABOUT TO ENCOUNTER POWDERED SUGAR.

johndoe2150
06-14-2011, 6:31 PM
All your need is a white 0 in the middle and that would be perfect.

Manic Moran
06-14-2011, 7:35 PM
So if I understand things correctly, the purpose of displaying the sticker in the first place is to announce to the world that you support the concealed carrying of firearms, and the implication is that there is a better than average chance that you are armed. Why should there be an uproar when the police put out an informational saying exactly what it was that the sticker owner intended to put out in the first place?

Arguments about people displaying the sticker being likely to be law abiding cannot be relied upon. A criminal may well attempt to put such a sticker on his own vehicle in order to place the police off-guard.

As we keep saying, you have the right to expression. It does not make you immune from the consequences of exercising that right.

NTM

scarville
06-14-2011, 7:53 PM
Wrong. Ask any of the members here who have been arrested with bullet buttons or had their firearms seized improperly. You have a lot to fear whether you are doing something legal or not.
"But! But! But," the two-strokers cry, "They can sort it out in the courts. Do not resist. Do not assert your rights. Submit!"

TheFlyingAfrican
06-14-2011, 8:48 PM
wonder if we can create 'Not-a-gangster' decals... because ... you know ... gangsters wouldn't use those decals..

Jake71
06-14-2011, 8:51 PM
Police should be more worried about politicians that can't manage budgets and have to threaten to lay off police officers to balance the budget....

Thats the REAL danger.

HotRails
06-14-2011, 10:34 PM
Baltimore is just a cesspool of crime and violence. Most of the thugs there probably can't even read let alone understand what the second amendment means..

xrMike
06-15-2011, 9:55 AM
There's a big difference between being in the closet, and not wanting to broadcast your views to the general public on the back of your vehicle.

On the one hand you are actively hiding your views. On the other, you're simply not broadcasting them to anyone behind your car.I don't see much difference between the two, personally.

To me a sticker does not "broadcast your views to the world". Broadcasting is "active" and usually involves a bullhorn or a radio station. A sticker is passive, more like a fashion accessory, like buying trick rims or hanging fuzzy dice from your rear-view. It makes a statement about who you are and/or what you believe in.

I'm not afraid to make that statement publicly. Many others are, and that's fine, for them. My truck has never been keyed in a parking lot. I've never been asked about weapons during a traffic stop. I've never suffered any negative consequence (that I know of), as a result of sporting a small NRA sticker on my truck for the last 12 years.

If everybody who was an NRA member sported The Sticker, or any other 2A sticker that was not covert and chicken-**** (like the one being discussed in this thread), there would be a LOT more free PR, recognition, and publicity for our cause on the road. Non-shooters would be forced to recognize: "Woah! There are TONS of gun-owners out there!" And maybe they would not be so quick to marginalize us in their thoughts, and with their votes.

The reasons that are always given for NOT sporting The Sticker are logical, in a milquetoast sort of way. But they are also selfish -- always. I made a personal decision that the potential benefits (to me AND others) really do outweigh the potential risks (to selfish-me alone).

The "out-of-closet" analogy is not too far off the mark in that regard.