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aermotor
06-06-2011, 2:06 PM
Going camping in a month or so to the Johnson Valley area. The entire area is marked as Shotguns Only, so I just have a question if the Handgun in Campsite rule would still be kosher? I obviously won't be shooting it, but I'm wondering on the legalities of this before I call the local office to see what they have to say so I have something to back it up with. I'm not sure if possession of a loaded handgun in my campsite, which is in the shotgun only area violates anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Crom
06-06-2011, 3:34 PM
Going camping in a month or so to the Johnson Valley area. The entire area is marked as Shotguns Only, so I just have a question if the Handgun in Campsite rule would still be kosher? I obviously won't be shooting it, but I'm wondering on the legalities of this before I call the local office to see what they have to say so I have something to back it up with. I'm not sure if possession of a loaded handgun in my campsite, which is in the shotgun only area violates anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I think you are 100% legit to have your loaded handgun in your tent or wherever you sleep. I do it all the time when camping all throughout the state.

If you are remote (dispersed) camping I'd rely on this case:

USA V. Basher (http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2011/01/20/09-30311.pdf)


Classifying the area outside of a tent in a National Park or National Forest lands campsite as curtilage would be very problematic. A tent is comparable to a house, apartment, or hotel room because it is a private area where people sleep and change clothing. See Gooch, 6 F.3d at 677. However, campsites, such as the dispersed, ill-defined site here, are open to the public and exposed.

aermotor
06-06-2011, 3:47 PM
Hmm okay, so only when actually in the tent?... It's a grey area, but campsite doesn't seem like a tent alone. Like if I'm sitting feet from my tent at the campfire etc. I'm also in an area that is quite remote and there are not designated campsites and ppl around you at all.

ldsnet
06-06-2011, 3:48 PM
You need to check the Fish and Game Code: I know this exists for Deer season and Archery hunters:

4370. In every area in which deer may lawfully be taken during the
general open season there is an archery season for the taking of deer
with bow and arrow. The season for each area shall be as the
commission may prescribe, with a minimum interposing interval of
three days immediately preceding the regular open season on deer in
that area. No person taking or attempting to take deer during such
archery season shall carry, or have under his immediate control, any
firearm of any kind.

4371. The provisions of this code relating to deer shall be
applicable to the taking of deer with bow and arrow.

Connor P Price
06-06-2011, 3:54 PM
I believe a campsite is treated just like a house for purposes of carrying because you have temporary domicile there. I think of the general site as being equivalent to the lot your house sits on, and your tent, camper, RV etc. as equivalent to your house.

Using that analogy, and staying consistent with Overturf, my understanding is that just like you can concealed carry in your house, you can concealed carry in your tent. However stepping out into the open campsite would be equivalent to walking out onto your non-fenced porch. That would be a no-no.

aklover_91
06-06-2011, 3:58 PM
Raises a question I hadn't thought to ask before.

I usually don't use a tent when I'm camping unless the weather absolutely necessitates it, am I allowed to have a gun at all?

Connor P Price
06-06-2011, 4:02 PM
Raises a question I hadn't thought to ask before.

I usually don't use a tent when I'm camping unless the weather absolutely necessitates it, am I allowed to have a gun at all?

If your in an unincorporated area where the discharge of a firearm is legal then it shouldn't matter. If your in an area where it is illegal to discharge a firearm, then generally you are not able to carry one.

aermotor
06-06-2011, 4:02 PM
This is on BLM land where possession/discharge of firearms is legal, the tricky part here is the shotguns only area that I happen to be in. Still no definitive answer yet.

aklover you make a good point as well.

GrizzlyGuy
06-06-2011, 5:50 PM
From BLM's page for Johnson Valley Off-Highway Vehicle Area (http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/barstow/johnson.html):

SHOTGUN SHOOTING ONLY IN THE JOHNSON VALLEY OHV AREA! No pistol or rifle shooting allowed!

It looks like the handgun/rifle prohibition only applies to shooting, nor possession.

KandyRedCoi
06-06-2011, 5:54 PM
sub'd im going camping soon too, would love to get more info

thanks

Connor P Price
06-06-2011, 6:03 PM
From BLM's page for Johnson Valley Off-Highway Vehicle Area (http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/barstow/johnson.html):



It looks like the handgun/rifle prohibition only applies to shooting, nor possession.

That's pretty much what I was thinking as well. I've emailed the BLM asking for a response that will make this perfectly clear. If they respond I'll post it up in this thread for everyone to see.

MudCamper
06-06-2011, 6:06 PM
I believe a campsite is treated just like a house for purposes of carrying because you have temporary domicile there. I think of the general site as being equivalent to the lot your house sits on, and your tent, camper, RV etc. as equivalent to your house.

Using that analogy, and staying consistent with Overturf, my understanding is that just like you can concealed carry in your house, you can concealed carry in your tent. However stepping out into the open campsite would be equivalent to walking out onto your non-fenced porch. That would be a no-no.

While in this case your assumption is correct, be careful not to conflate different codes. CA PC 12031 (loaded) does contain an exemption for one's residence including any temporary residence or campsite, but that doesn't mean you are exempted from a litany of other laws or regulations. See the Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) thread for more details, but GrizzlyGuy pretty much answered the OP's question.

aermotor
06-06-2011, 7:42 PM
From BLM's page for Johnson Valley Off-Highway Vehicle Area (http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/barstow/johnson.html):



It looks like the handgun/rifle prohibition only applies to shooting, nor possession.

Do you mean not instead of nor? I'm still slightly hesitant of having a holstered handgun when not in the immediate area of my tent. But that does help what you said. Possession seems legit as long as not shooting. I might call the BLM and Sheriff to double check and will let you know what they say.

GrizzlyGuy
06-06-2011, 7:53 PM
Do you mean not instead of nor? I'm still slightly hesitant of having a holstered handgun when not in the immediate area of my tent. But that does help what you said. Possession seems legit as long as not shooting. I might call the BLM and Sheriff to double check and will let you know what they say.

Dohhhh! Yes, I meant "not" instead of "nor". Possession looks to be OK.

MudCamper
06-06-2011, 9:11 PM
I might call the BLM and Sheriff to double check and will let you know what they say.

They may get it right, but often they get it totally wrong.

ubet
06-07-2011, 9:51 AM
Easy, if you can shoot their, you can loc their. Why is this so hard to understand, or are people just nervous to loc?

lugee
06-07-2011, 3:42 PM
I am going to be backpacking in an NF in a couple weeks and called the forest ranger to make sure loaded open carry is okay. He said I should be fine as long as I stay in the boundaries of the NF.

Rumline
06-07-2011, 3:59 PM
LOADED open carry?? Do you mean UNloaded open carry? I thought most NFs prohibit shooting, and therefore UOC would be the only option.

MudCamper
06-07-2011, 4:02 PM
LOADED open carry?? Do you mean UNloaded open carry? I thought most NFs prohibit shooting, and therefore UOC would be the only option.

You are confusing National Forests with National Parks. See the Firearms in Forests and Parks (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186457) thread.

Rumline
06-07-2011, 4:32 PM
Gahh you're right. Sorry. I guess I'm getting overly cynical, it just feels like anything to do with guns in this state is probably illegal or will be soon.

KandyRedCoi
06-07-2011, 6:44 PM
^that too

Connor P Price
06-09-2011, 6:34 PM
Direct quote from my correspondence with a BLM representative at the Barstow Field office.

Shotgun Only areas are shotgun discharge only, you can have your pistol and
rifle but can not discharge them.

aermotor
06-09-2011, 6:43 PM
Well that's awesome. Any name you can attribute that to? Thanks Conner.

ldivinag
06-10-2011, 7:00 AM
or you can work for a 4wd related magazine and CLEARLY show in one article you shooting off a glock inside JV...

friggin "4 wheel and off road" mag. but this was probably a decade or so ago. the idiots said in one photo that they traded someone some cigars for some time on the pistol.

i emailed them about, letters to the editor, and for a few months i went and check the magazine and my letter was never printed.

idiots...

Riodog
06-10-2011, 11:20 AM
Easy, if you can shoot their, you can loc their. Why is this so hard to understand, or are people just nervous to loc?

Maybe cuz we don't know what it is of 'their's' that you want to shoot or open carry. Dah?
Rio