PDA

View Full Version : Off Roster Handgun bought PPT


BlindRacer
06-06-2011, 8:23 AM
Just wanted to make sure that there would be nothing wrong with this situation.

My friend from North Carolina is thinking about buying a handgun (Ruger LCP), but is not sure he is going to enjoy it. He's a little concerned about the small size and shoot ability vs carry ability.

Anyways, I told him that if he didn't like it, that I would be more than willing to buy it from him.

I'm pretty sure an out of state PPT has to take place face to face at an FFL. He'll be coming out here in November, so it could take place at that point.

Is everything legit here? Are there any issues with buying this from him if he ends up not wanting it after all?

Thanks for the legal info.

HowardW56
06-06-2011, 8:29 AM
NO.... DOJ requires that both be California residents.

ZirconJohn
06-06-2011, 8:32 AM
Asked and answered... IBTC :yes:

BlindRacer
06-06-2011, 8:33 AM
NO.... DOJ requires that both be California residents.

Really? I could have sworn it could be any US resident, as long as the PPT took place face to face at a California FFL. And documentation/ PC regarding this?

HowardW56
06-06-2011, 8:37 AM
Really? I could have sworn it could be any US resident, as long as the PPT took place face to face at a California FFL. And documentation/ PC regarding this?

This is from personal knowledge. If you want to research it more start with the DOJ/BOF FAQ page...

SJgunguy24
06-06-2011, 8:38 AM
Really? I could have sworn it could be any US resident, as long as the PPT took place face to face at a California FFL. And documentation/ PC regarding this?

That is an underground regulation and is illegal, but unfortunately we have to use the DROS software to process any and all FFL transactions and that software will not read any ID that isn't CA issued.
These are the very illegal acts that the DOJ uses to violate our rights.

rromeo
06-06-2011, 8:41 AM
Really?

http://forum.i3d.net/attachments/huiskamer-dutch/943225141d1301921472-stamcafe-t-hukske-ya-rly.jpg

Unless the out of state person is a blood relative, up or down the family tree. IE, parent, child, grandparent, grandchild.

GrizzlyGuy
06-06-2011, 8:41 AM
Really? I could have sworn it could be any US resident, as long as the PPT took place face to face at a California FFL. And documentation/ PC regarding this?

See here in the wiki: As implemented, both parties must be California residents (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#As_imple mented.2C_both_parties_must_be_California_resident s)

loose_electron
06-06-2011, 8:42 AM
Not allowed unles its your dad or son.

See:
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

Maestro Pistolero
06-06-2011, 8:47 AM
....or if he moves here and imports it as a new CA resident.

SJgunguy24
06-06-2011, 9:12 AM
I'm sorry guys but there is no requirement for the seller to be a resident by law. It's the DROS software that restricts the transaction and that is illegal. It restricts interstate commerce and the state needs to be taken to task for that. It is legal but the firearm must be delivered in person.

SJgunguy24
06-06-2011, 9:23 AM
This is from personal knowledge. If you want to research it more start with the DOJ/BOF FAQ page...

This is from the FAQ page

14.I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

In bold is the key statement. CA law requires anybody who receives a firearm from an FFL to be a resident, if the buyer is denied, then the original seller will need to be a resident to get the gun back. He doesn't need to be a resident to sell in CA. The DROS software will not accecpt anything other then a CA ID/DL. The state has programmed the people to think what is perfectly legal to be illegal. Why more won't just look a little deeper into what's really going on still baffles me. If we all did, no way in hell would the state get away with what they have been.

BlindRacer
06-06-2011, 9:29 AM
This is from the FAQ page

14.I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

In bold is the key statement. CA law requires anybody who receives a firearm from an FFL to be a resident, if the buyer is denied, then the original seller will need to be a resident to get the gun back. He doesn't need to be a resident to sell in CA. The DROS software will not accecpt anything other then a CA ID/DL. The state has programmed the people to think what is perfectly legal to be illegal. Why more won't just look a little deeper into what's really going on still baffles me. If we all did, no way in hell would the state get away with what they have been.

Although it sounds possible to do, I don't know if I want to risk it for my friend. I'll let him know to get a different buyer lined up if he wants to try it out for a while.

Thanks everyone.

ilkhan
06-06-2011, 9:34 AM
AFAIK fed law says any inter-state (meaning residents, not physical presence) requires an FFL. Going through the FFL, has to be roster.
Thats my understanding. May be wrong.
Same reason D.C. residents cant buy a gun in Virginia, CA residents in Reno/Vegas, etc.

SJgunguy24
06-06-2011, 9:45 AM
AFAIK fed law says any inter-state (meaning residents, not physical presence) requires an FFL. Going through the FFL, has to be roster.
Thats my understanding. May be wrong.
Same reason D.C. residents cant buy a gun in Virginia, CA residents in Reno/Vegas, etc.

No, you can buy a gun anywhere you want. You cannot take delivery of that gun out of your state of residence if your state has laws requiring you to take delivery from a CA FFL.
There is a federal law that allows transfers for FTF transactions for non FFL PPT in states that share borders, as long as both states allow that. New Mexico can PPT a gun to an Arizona resident without a FFL as long as both states allow that transaction.

Librarian
06-06-2011, 11:57 AM
No, you can buy a gun anywhere you want. You cannot take delivery of that gun out of your state of residence if your state has laws requiring you to take delivery from a CA FFL.
There is a federal law that allows transfers for FTF transactions for non FFL PPT in states that share borders, as long as both states allow that. New Mexico can PPT a gun to an Arizona resident without a FFL as long as both states allow that transaction.

The shared-border thing is no longer valid, it's any states at all. But, since CA is squirrely, doesn't work for CA residents.

fiddletown
06-06-2011, 12:12 PM
...New Mexico can PPT a gun to an Arizona resident without a FFL as long as both states allow that transaction.Nope, that's flat wrong.

Any transfer (with very few exception, e. g., by bequest under a will or intestate succession) between residents of different States must go through an FFL. In the case of handguns, under federal law it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. In the case of long guns, under federal law it can be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of both the transferee's State of residence and the State in which the transfer takes place. (see 18 USC 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922(b)(3))

In the case of California, a transfer of a long gun to a California resident can not as a practical matter be done in conformity with California law by a non-California FFL.