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View Full Version : M&P Pro vs. 9L question


tbm311
06-04-2011, 12:46 AM
Got a several "vs" questions for you current owners.

Looking to purchase one shortly and in a dilemma which model to get.

M&P 9mm Pro or M&P 9L with Apex Kit?

Also, with the 9L do most of you guys prefer it with or without the thumb safety?

Thanks

gorenut
06-04-2011, 11:31 AM
Unless you're getting it via PPT, single-shot, or you're LEO... both are off the roster.

I would prefer to get the M&P 9L with Apex kit. I was in the same position as you and overall read better experiences with that setup. My personal experience with S&W "Pro" work is that while the gun comes out better out of the box vs the standard setup, its still nothing compared to other party/quality custom work.

NorCal Einstein
06-04-2011, 11:34 AM
Owning a Pro, I would say go with the 9L and upgrade it the way you want (without feeling bad)

On my Pro, I've already replaced the factory fiber sights with Dawson fiber front and adjustable rear. The only Pro differentiator I have left is the trigger, which I'm on the fence with...debating to send it into Apex.

9mmepiphany
06-04-2011, 11:37 AM
M&P9L with the Apex Tactical kit

The Pro has a bit cleaner trigger action that their regular production models, but nothing close to the difference you experience from the full Apex Tactical install. Depending on what you're going to do with the gun, you could even go all the way with their solid aluminum trigger to get the ultimate M&P action.

What you give up with the 9L is the sight set that comes with the Pro

tbm311
06-04-2011, 12:05 PM
9L w/Apex kit seems the way to go. :D

With that said, how many got it with the safety?

SMR510
06-04-2011, 4:22 PM
Anyone know where I can find either one? I talked to Valkyrie Arms yesterday and they told me the 9L is "hard to get" and "would take a while" so I asked about the pro (Only $20 more expensive) and they said they normally carry them but none are available right now through their distributor. I figured I would find someone online that sells them and convince them to send it to an 07 FFL in CA but everyone is out of just about every M&P model.

I am really set on a 5" M&P just have to track one down for a reasonable price.

DannyZRC
06-04-2011, 4:28 PM
I just got a regular FS in .40 with the thumb safety, it's fabulous.

+, if you don't end up liking it you can just remove the lever and install the blanking plug in the frame.

Ksmash01
06-04-2011, 5:08 PM
I have a 9L that I put the Apex competition kit into. I also put the same sights that NorCal Einstein has on his pistol.

Gotta say a few things about the Apex Comp Kit. For myself, the trigger pull is too light. I'm going to experiment with different springs(Trigger Return, Striker Spring, and sear spring) to see if I can get it to have a more firm, clean break. There's almost no resistance with the current springs being used(apex comp springs), and the break is so clean I can't stage the trigger effectively.

If I could do it again, I would have gotten the Duty Kit, and Novak F/O target sights(The pro comes with the front F/O , rear is black). The Dawsons I have on them are good, but the front sight is too tall for the holster I use(Blackhawk Serpa CQC), so now I have to shop around for a holster to modify, because some are too expensive for my usage. Maybe I should have just gotten the PRO...I'm still happy with what I have.

I also plan on getting a non captive tungsten guide rod to add a little weight to the front to lessen the muzzle flip(not that it has much).


Good luck with whatever you decide to get, but for the most part, I think the 9L has everything you want, with the ability to make it better than the PRO. I doubt the cost difference is all that big, so do some research and get what you want.

Ksmash01
06-04-2011, 5:09 PM
Anyone know where I can find either one? I talked to Valkyrie Arms yesterday and they told me the 9L is "hard to get" and "would take a while" so I asked about the pro (Only $20 more expensive) and they said they normally carry them but none are available right now through their distributor. I figured I would find someone online that sells them and convince them to send it to an 07 FFL in CA but everyone is out of just about every M&P model.

I am really set on a 5" M&P just have to track one down for a reasonable price.

I got mine from Tracy Rifle and Pistol....I think Valkerie has a better price. I'm sure I got gouged a little bit, but they're the only shop that had them at the time.

tbm311
06-04-2011, 11:12 PM
I went ahead with the 9L and can't wait for it to come in to start the 10 day wait! Looking forward to breaking it in once it's out of jail!

NorCal Einstein
06-04-2011, 11:46 PM
If I could do it again, I would have gotten the Duty Kit, and Novak F/O target sights(The pro comes with the front F/O , rear is black). The Dawsons I have on them are good, but the front sight is too tall for the holster I use(Blackhawk Serpa CQC), so now I have to shop around for a holster to modify, because some are too expensive for my usage. Maybe I should have just gotten the PRO...I'm still happy with what I have.


That damn thing snags on my Maxpedition range bag "holster" every time I take it out. I've also managed to snag and rip my tshirt when running in a holster with shirt untucked.

Time to find new sight.....again.

Blackhawk556
06-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Anyone know where I can find either one? I talked to Valkyrie Arms yesterday and they told me the 9L is "hard to get" and "would take a while" so I asked about the pro (Only $20 more expensive) and they said they normally carry them but none are available right now through their distributor. I figured I would find someone online that sells them and convince them to send it to an 07 FFL in CA but everyone is out of just about every M&P model.

I am really set on a 5" M&P just have to track one down for a reasonable price.

try calling PRK arms in fresno. I was there two days ago and they had several m&p guns. Not sure if they had exactly the one you wanted but I know they had off roster M&Ps for sale.

Ksmash01
06-05-2011, 2:03 PM
That damn thing snags on my Maxpedition range bag "holster" every time I take it out. I've also managed to snag and rip my tshirt when running in a holster with shirt untucked.

Time to find new sight.....again.

That sucks. I think we should have put a little more thought into the sights we selected. After reading so much about them I got caught up in their hype. There must have been a good reason that S&W went with them on the PRO model. It sucks that it's causing you to damage other things you own. To think I was going to take a Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster and dremel the raised portion off to accomodate my sight.

I'm really thinking about switching to some Novaks, or at least the front sight. My only worry is that I won't be able to adjust the Dawson rear low enough to get the sight picture I want. If that's the case, then I'll just order a Novak set. Considering the trouble I went through getting the Dawsons installed, I may order a sight pusher and do it myself. I will save money down the road when I put night sights in my other M&P's.

What's even more jacked up about my situation is my original 3-dot sights. I decided to put the rear ledge style sight on my M&P FS 9, and the front was damaged when I got my sights changed the first time. I still have the old rear sight for the FS 9, but I'd still have to order a new front to replace the damaged one. I still want F/O sights, but after shooting at Targetmasters(the dimmest indoor range in the area) I couldn't even see the rear(green) well enough to get a good sight picture. I'm sure the Novak F/O tubes are wider than the Dawsons, so that may be the right fix. I just wish that Novak made an adjustable F/O sight for the M&P. I could get a flat black, but I'm used to the 3 dot system, so I guess I'll have to settle for a fixed F/O from Novak, if their front sight won't work with the Dawson.

Call me crazy, but I'm almost hoping the my front sight falls out again, so I'll have a legitimate reason to buy new sights. I'd hate to junk these after the money I've spent on them, but it's not the best solution for me. What made you change out the Novaks that came with your gun, and do you still have them? If they're in good condition, and you don't plan on using them, I may be interested in buying them off of you...PM me if you wanna talk about that so we don't totally jack this guys thread. I do hope the OP is learning from our experiences with the Dawsons, and it helps him make a more informed decision if he plans on changing his sights. It would have been nice to hear people saying the things I've experienced with them, pro or con.

SMR510
06-05-2011, 3:30 PM
I got mine from Tracy Rifle and Pistol....I think Valkerie has a better price. I'm sure I got gouged a little bit, but they're the only shop that had them at the time.

try calling PRK arms in fresno. I was there two days ago and they had several m&p guns. Not sure if they had exactly the one you wanted but I know they had off roster M&Ps for sale.

Thanks for the info guys. I will have to make a couple phone calls and see what I can do. Only downside is that if I want to have VA single shot it it will end up being $50 more if I dont buy it from them so I may just wait if I cant find one cheap enough to negate the extra cost.

NorCal Einstein
06-05-2011, 4:34 PM
That sucks. I think we should have put a little more thought into the sights we selected. After reading so much about them I got caught up in their hype. There must have been a good reason that S&W went with them on the PRO model. It sucks that it's causing you to damage other things you own. To think I was going to take a Blackhawk CQC Serpa holster and dremel the raised portion off to accomodate my sight.

I'm really thinking about switching to some Novaks, or at least the front sight. My only worry is that I won't be able to adjust the Dawson rear low enough to get the sight picture I want. If that's the case, then I'll just order a Novak set. Considering the trouble I went through getting the Dawsons installed, I may order a sight pusher and do it myself. I will save money down the road when I put night sights in my other M&P's.

What's even more jacked up about my situation is my original 3-dot sights. I decided to put the rear ledge style sight on my M&P FS 9, and the front was damaged when I got my sights changed the first time. I still have the old rear sight for the FS 9, but I'd still have to order a new front to replace the damaged one. I still want F/O sights, but after shooting at Targetmasters(the dimmest indoor range in the area) I couldn't even see the rear(green) well enough to get a good sight picture. I'm sure the Novak F/O tubes are wider than the Dawsons, so that may be the right fix. I just wish that Novak made an adjustable F/O sight for the M&P. I could get a flat black, but I'm used to the 3 dot system, so I guess I'll have to settle for a fixed F/O from Novak, if their front sight won't work with the Dawson.

Call me crazy, but I'm almost hoping the my front sight falls out again, so I'll have a legitimate reason to buy new sights. I'd hate to junk these after the money I've spent on them, but it's not the best solution for me. What made you change out the Novaks that came with your gun, and do you still have them? If they're in good condition, and you don't plan on using them, I may be interested in buying them off of you...PM me if you wanna talk about that so we don't totally jack this guys thread. I do hope the OP is learning from our experiences with the Dawsons, and it helps him make a more informed decision if he plans on changing his sights. It would have been nice to hear people saying the things I've experienced with them, pro or con.

When it came to replacement sights for 9Pro/9L, Dawson was mentioned over and over on MP Pistol forum. My thought was that if these guys keep dropping the Dawson recommendation, I can't go wrong! This is what I had to do to my ~ $85 holster so I could draw from the holster without getting leather chunks on my front sight, obstructing the front fiber. Sooo...how's that compared to what you would have to do to your Blackhawk? hahaha

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj30/NorCalEinstein/DSC_4654a.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj30/NorCalEinstein/DSC_4656a.jpg

I run a black serrated rear, so I don't really have the same complains as you, but I know what you mean when you're talking about having problems seeing the fiber in low light (specifically at TMW). At least in the front sight from Dawson, I believe they use .100 fiber, and I'd guess that's the same size in the rear as well. That is SMALL. At least with the front sight, you could change the fiber size if you wanted, but I don't know if you can do the same with the rear.

The original reason I changed out my sights was that my STOCK front fiber sight had drifted off center (stock rear sight is black serrated as well). From the beginning, I never really loved the sight picture I had with the factory setup and really wanted an adjustable rear. The Dawson set gave me the sight picture I wanted, at the cost of being a damn skyscraper on my slide. My stock sight set is in great condition, but you don't want it since it's not a 3 dot setup.

tbm311: Hopefully you can take all this information into consideration as you make your purchase. If you are set on having fiber sights on your gun, you might want to prepare yourself for the ride that kmash and I have gone through. Because of the increased slide length, finding a sight setup requires a little more homework than if you were buying for the full sized.

The M&P9 Pro Series factory fiber sights are not bad by any means, and I would go and say for those that want to run fiber...you might just want to spend the few extra dollars and get the Pro so you don't have to mess around finding replacement sights. The stock Pro sights are relatively low profile (I never had a snagging issue), and if you can dial yourself in to adjust for elevation as the target distance changes...it's a decent way to go.

Ksmash01
06-05-2011, 6:11 PM
Thanks for the info guys. I will have to make a couple phone calls and see what I can do. Only downside is that if I want to have VA single shot it it will end up being $50 more if I dont buy it from them so I may just wait if I cant find one cheap enough to negate the extra cost.

Tracy Rifle and Pistol is an 07 FFL as well. They did the SS conversion, it was included in the cost of the pistol. If you can make that drive, call their shop and see what's up. PolishMike is the owner of the shop, and a member on the forums. You may want to drop him a line and see what he can do for you.

Ksmash01
06-05-2011, 6:21 PM
When it came to replacement sights for 9Pro/9L, Dawson was mentioned over and over on MP Pistol forum. My thought was that if these guys keep dropping the Dawson recommendation, I can't go wrong! This is what I had to do to my ~ $85 holster so I could draw from the holster without getting leather chunks on my front sight, obstructing the front fiber. Sooo...how's that compared to what you would have to do to your Blackhawk? hahaha

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj30/NorCalEinstein/DSC_4654a.jpg

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj30/NorCalEinstein/DSC_4656a.jpg

I run a black serrated rear, so I don't really have the same complains as you, but I know what you mean when you're talking about having problems seeing the fiber in low light (specifically at TMW). At least in the front sight from Dawson, I believe they use .100 fiber, and I'd guess that's the same size in the rear as well. That is SMALL. At least with the front sight, you could change the fiber size if you wanted, but I don't know if you can do the same with the rear.

The original reason I changed out my sights was that my STOCK front fiber sight had drifted off center (stock rear sight is black serrated as well). From the beginning, I never really loved the sight picture I had with the factory setup and really wanted an adjustable rear. The Dawson set gave me the sight picture I wanted, at the cost of being a damn skyscraper on my slide. My stock sight set is in great condition, but you don't want it since it's not a 3 dot setup.

tbm311: Hopefully you can take all this information into consideration as you make your purchase. If you are set on having fiber sights on your gun, you might want to prepare yourself for the ride that ksmash and I have gone through. Because of the increased slide length, finding a sight setup requires a little more homework than if you were buying for the full sized.

The M&P9 Pro Series factory fiber sights are not bad by any means, and I would go and say for those that want to run fiber...you might just want to spend the few extra dollars and get the Pro so you don't have to mess around finding replacement sights. The stock Pro sights are relatively low profile (I never had a snagging issue), and if you can dial yourself in to adjust for elevation as the target distance changes...it's a decent way to go.


I think I'll get these and call it a day. I'll just order them from Novak so I'll get the right height front sight:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=897501

Hi-Viz actually has a sight set out, I wonder how these would work:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=580394

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=776962

I'm am officially on the hunt for a new sight picture. I'll find out what will work best for me.

NorCal Einstein
06-05-2011, 6:34 PM
I like the serrations on the HIVIZ rear.

Ksmash01
06-05-2011, 7:30 PM
For about 70 bucks, they're worth a try. I may just go ahead and get them, along with a sight tool, and try them out. After Friday + 10 days, I'll have 3 M&P's with sights that will ultimately get changed out. I figure $40 x 3 = the money I'd spend on an MGW sight tool for the gun.

Removing my Eiffel Tower front sight shouldn't be hard, but my rear sight was set with locktite. I guess I could heat it up with a hair dryer and tap it out though.

The saga continues.

tbm311
06-05-2011, 8:38 PM
Do the fiber sites shift around over time and/or crack?

NorCal Einstein
06-05-2011, 8:47 PM
Normally, the front fiber doesn't move around. In my case, I had a front sight that drifted left after about 1000 rounds. I'm not sure what did it, since at that time I only took it to the indoor range...but I know I'm atypical. If it was really a problem, I'd be reading it all over the M&P forum.

smarter
06-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Normally, the front fiber doesn't move around. In my case, I had a front sight that drifted left after about 1000 rounds. I'm not sure what did it, since at that time I only took it to the indoor range...but I know I'm atypical. If it was really a problem, I'd be reading it all over the M&P forum.

Mines starting to shift to the left also and I have about 600-700 rounds through it. It's been through a couple of practice matches. Not sure why it's the case, but will plan on buying a sight tool.

Ksmash01
06-05-2011, 10:52 PM
Normally, the front fiber doesn't move around. In my case, I had a front sight that drifted left after about 1000 rounds. I'm not sure what did it, since at that time I only took it to the indoor range...but I know I'm atypical. If it was really a problem, I'd be reading it all over the M&P forum.

Mines starting to shift to the left also and I have about 600-700 rounds through it. It's been through a couple of practice matches. Not sure why it's the case, but will plan on buying a sight tool.

My Dawson shifted left after less than 200 rounds after the first time it was installed.

Unlike your pistols, mine didn't have the sight job done at the factory. Needless to say, I should have gone with my gut and gotten Novaks. I could have purchased the sights and had them installed by them for a little less than what I paid for the Dawsons, and to have them installed by a local smith.

Ksmash01
06-05-2011, 10:53 PM
Do the fiber sites shift around over time and/or crack?

Not really. If they do break, the tubes are easily replaced. Not like loosing a tritium tube or anything.