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sneaker pimp
06-03-2011, 9:16 PM
Hey everyone. Glad I found this place and I'm really glad it exists. This is the kind of website and community gun owners need to get things moving and I'm super impressed with what is happening. That said....here is my dilemma:

I have a very slick AK-47, which after reading around on this forum I have determined is pretty illegal in California, so it will be left behind. My main question regards my Glock 23. I have proof of ownership, sales receipts, etc. But do I have to let the fed-gov know I have it within 60 days of getting to California? How would they know when I brought it in? Do people get prosecuted for this? Can someone cite the law? Could I somehow exempt this pistol by turning it into a mod-rfile? Are hollow points illegal?:confused:

Also, do people get carry permits in LA or is this rare?

And my ending comment.....I hope Calguns and law abiding gun owners in California fix the laws, and soon. I'm boycotting Arnold's movies. :chris:

Dreaded Claymore
06-03-2011, 9:45 PM
Please post ALL the details regarding your AK, including make and model, so that we may advise you further. It might not be nearly as illegal as you think.

Your Glock 23 is easy. Since you are importing it into the state, you simply have to register it using this form (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf). I don't like it either, but in California, it's not a safe bet that you won't be prosecuted.

Hollow-point bullets are not illegal at all.

Getting a carry permit in LA isn't rare. It's unheard of. No one may carry a gun in LA as far as the authorities are concerned. Do not despair, because the Calguns Foundation is currently undertaking to change this (http://calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/resources/ccw-initiative).

PsychGuy274
06-03-2011, 9:49 PM
For carry you could also LUCC (locked, unloaded, concealed carry). As in in a fully enclose locked container and the pistol is unloaded. You can have loaded mags in the case though, just not in the gun.

I carry my pistol that way seeing as I'm in San Diego and can't get a carry permit.

CAL.BAR
06-03-2011, 9:51 PM
BOY ARE YOU IN FOR SOME CULTURE SHOCK! "Also, do people get carry permits in LA or is this rare?" oh boy. Rare is an understatement. Lightning strikes are "rare" - CCW in LA is mythical.

Enjoy the weather!

sneaker pimp
06-03-2011, 10:14 PM
Haha, you guys are funny. When I got my CCW, I walked in and gave the sheriff a check, he took my picture, I walked out. Don't despair Californians, I see the talent in this website's leadership that someday you will have it too. Just can't say when exactly :)

My AK is on a Saiga receiver, folding stock, 30 round mags, no button, threaded barrel, flash hider, bayonet, pistol grip. Its fun :chris:.

And can someone cite the law about notifying the DOJ that I brought a pistol into California? I'm considering martial arts and writing lots of letters, might have to leave my modest arsenal here.

I can't wait to read on and find out what happened in California. Glad to see the SAF is in on the action though. And yes I do have an excellent reason for coming to the other coast.:coolgleamA:

Extendable batons illegal too? How big of a knife can I carry? What if I knew a cop in LA, does this help with a permit or still astronomically unlikely?

mdimeo
06-03-2011, 11:06 PM
Your AK is probably one bullet button ($35) away from legal. Don't leave it home.

Your 30 round magazines you'll have to take apart, though (disassembled magazines are fine).

Left Coast Conservative
06-03-2011, 11:16 PM
What if I knew a cop in LA, does this help with a permit or still astronomically unlikely?

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, will help you in LA. Do not even THINK of carrying a handgun in LA without a permit. And you will not get a permit. In fact, I would doubt that they would even accept your application.

Welcome to California. Enjoy he weather, but keep your guns at home and locked up.

Librarian
06-04-2011, 12:29 AM
Haha, you guys are funny. When I got my CCW, I walked in and gave the sheriff a check, he took my picture, I walked out. Don't despair Californians, I see the talent in this website's leadership that someday you will have it too. Just can't say when exactly :)

My AK is on a Saiga receiver, folding stock, 30 round mags, no button, threaded barrel, flash hider, bayonet, pistol grip. Its fun :chris:.

And can someone cite the law about notifying the DOJ that I brought a pistol into California? I'm considering martial arts and writing lots of letters, might have to leave my modest arsenal here.

I can't wait to read on and find out what happened in California. Glad to see the SAF is in on the action though. And yes I do have an excellent reason for coming to the other coast.:coolgleamA:

Extendable batons illegal too? How big of a knife can I carry? What if I knew a cop in LA, does this help with a permit or still astronomically unlikely?

The law about registering your handguns when you move here is Penal Code 12072 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12072.html)(f)(2) - it covers 'personal handgun importers'.

Expandable batons are actually worse (felony) than carrying concealed with no license (misdemeanor, but 10-year firearms prohibition).

Generally, no size limit on knives - but read this: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=2289918&postcount=6

No, knowing a LAPD officer is unlikely to matter on CCW.

Just to mess with your mind, please start reading the Wiki - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page

Perhaps this article might be a good introduction: http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Time_Line_of_California_Firearms_Laws

Welcome to California. :D

llamatrnr
06-04-2011, 1:13 AM
pm sent

sneaker pimp
06-04-2011, 6:59 AM
Just for fun, here's my AK. I'm reading more on that wiki, thank you Mr. Librarian

ECVMatt
06-04-2011, 8:05 AM
If that is a converted Saiga, then you can bring it with some small modifications. Look at the flow chart and then ask some questions. Lots of us here have AK's.

sneaker pimp
06-04-2011, 9:12 AM
Yes it is, hand built by moi, 922r compliant. I'm going to just bring in my pistol. The fact that i have read for hours and hours and still fully don't understand the laws regarding assault weapons, multiplied by the effect of police undoubtedly being similarly un/misinformed means my comfort level is very low. Besides my mom needs something for home protection :cool: Not saying never, but for now it's going to live in NC.

So again, about this pistol registration. As I understand it, people who have been California residents their whole lives and have pistols, need not file DOJ paperwork. So would sending this pistol through an FFL to a California resident circumvent this requirement? In essence, giving it to this person, who is not family?

Also, is a long-time California resident required to file the DOJ paperwork if he/she bought a pistol in Arizona and drove back home to California? Seems like the words used to describe this 60 day registration requirement say "new" California resident.

Hope I'm not being too annoying, I have LOTS of questions.

emcon5
06-04-2011, 9:30 AM
So again, about this pistol registration. As I understand it, people who have been California residents their whole lives and have pistols, need not file DOJ paperwork. So would sending this pistol through an FFL to a California resident circumvent this requirement? In essence, giving it to this person, who is not family?California residents are not exempt from registration on guns they acquire since the law took effect, it is part of the Dealers Record of Sale (AKA DROS) process at the FFL. It would also cost more than just sending in the form.

Also, is a long-time California resident required to file the DOJ paperwork if he/she bought a pistol in Arizona and drove back home to California? Seems like the words used to describe this 60 day registration requirement say "new" California resident. It is not legal for most Californians to pop over to AZ or NV and buy a pistol, and that is a federal law.

The only California residents who can legally do that are (03) FFLs, and then only with Curio and Relic handguns. They must be registered when you bring them into the state, and there is a form specifically for that purpose.

I suppose it could be possible if a person had dual residency, but not sure on that.

With a Bullet Button your AK is legal (with 10 round mags only), an by now, police are well aware of it.

vkosty
06-04-2011, 9:33 AM
I moved from NC 7 months ago to Solano County, had to CAlifonize my Robinson XCR (not a big mod) and brought all of my pisotls, including Mark 23. I did have to cut off the threads on Mark 23, but all 9 pistols were registered with no problems with CA DOJ. I since have applied for a CCW and has been approved.
And no, it is not as simple in NC to get CCW as you describe. There is a training requirement (2 days), fingerprinting, and some waiting period as well (not as long, naturally, as in CA). Unlike NC, however, CA is consistent with the federal guidelines for CCW for legal immigrants. In NC only US citizens are allowed to apply, so I would have had to wait another year or longer. Cannot speak for other places in CA, but for me it was not as "big a culture" shock as some might think. From first hand experience and that of my friends and colleagues who lived there, MA, RI, MD, IL, NY possibly other states can be nastier in some repsects than CA. My experience in CA has also been that because of the restrictive gun laws in CA, the gun owners are much more aware, educated and active than in NC, where the gun ownership is taken for granted (till a sudden rude awakening, one day).
So, bring your toys and enjoy them.

Haha, you guys are funny. When I got my CCW, I walked in and gave the sheriff a check, he took my picture, I walked out. Don't despair Californians, I see the talent in this website's leadership that someday you will have it too. Just can't say when exactly :)

My AK is on a Saiga receiver, folding stock, 30 round mags, no button, threaded barrel, flash hider, bayonet, pistol grip. Its fun :chris:.

And can someone cite the law about notifying the DOJ that I brought a pistol into California? I'm considering martial arts and writing lots of letters, might have to leave my modest arsenal here.

I can't wait to read on and find out what happened in California. Glad to see the SAF is in on the action though. And yes I do have an excellent reason for coming to the other coast.:coolgleamA:

Extendable batons illegal too? How big of a knife can I carry? What if I knew a cop in LA, does this help with a permit or still astronomically unlikely?

dustoff31
06-04-2011, 9:34 AM
So again, about this pistol registration. As I understand it, people who have been California residents their whole lives and have pistols, need not file DOJ paperwork. So would sending this pistol through an FFL to a California resident circumvent this requirement? In essence, giving it to this person, who is not family?

If the CA resident purchased the pistol before a certain date, I forget when, but a long time ago, it was not registered, and there is no requirement to do so now.

After that date, they are automatically registered by the dealer at the time of sale/transfer.

Also, is a long-time California resident required to file the DOJ paperwork if he/she bought a pistol in Arizona and drove back home to California?

With very few exceptions, buying a handgun outside one's state of residence and transporting it back is a felony. So, they probably wouldn't want to register it if that were the case.

Seems like the words used to describe this 60 day registration requirement say "new" California resident.

Yes, it is mainly used by people moving to CA and bringing guns with them. But it is also used by current residents, in some cases.

sneaker pimp
06-04-2011, 9:59 AM
With a Bullet Button your AK is legal (with 10 round mags only), an by now, police are well aware of it.

Alright you have my attention. I have a stock Saiga ten rounder. So install bullet button and I'm legal? How does one use 30 round mags? Links for this information?

Oh and I didn't get my CCW permit in NC but mine has reciprocity with NC so it really was that easy. :)

emcon5
06-04-2011, 10:24 AM
Alright you have my attention. I have a stock Saiga ten rounder. So install bullet button and I'm legal? How does one use 30 round mags? Links for this information?

Someone who had legally acquired magazines could use them in either a registered AW, or a featureless gun without a magazine lock. Look at the flow chart to see what the "evil" features are.

It is also in the Wiki

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Main_Page

hvengel
06-04-2011, 10:28 AM
Alright you have my attention. I have a stock Saiga ten rounder. So install bullet button and I'm legal? How does one use 30 round mags? Links for this information?

Oh and I didn't get my CCW permit in NC but mine has reciprocity with NC so it really was that easy. :)

Importing a >10 round mag is illegal unless you are importing a parts kit (IE. it is disassembled). Manufacturing a >10 round mag is also illegal so you can NOT assemble your >10 round mag kits. You can only use >10 round mags if these were in the state before they became illegal to import, sell, manufacturer... So you will NOT be able to use your 30 rounders until the law is changed.

ALSystems
06-04-2011, 10:30 AM
Alright you have my attention. I have a stock Saiga ten rounder. So install bullet button and I'm legal? How does one use 30 round mags? Links for this information?

Oh and I didn't get my CCW permit in NC but mine has reciprocity with NC so it really was that easy. :)
Once you put a bullet button on your Saiga AK you can use it with a 10-round magazine.

To use a 30-round magazine, you would have to have a generic AK without "evil features" (no folding stock, no flash hider, no pistol grip). All this is explained in the AW flowchart with a link at the top of the page.

This is assuming you have a legal 30 round magazine in California. The importing and manufacturing of these magazines was banned years ago.

Arisaka
06-04-2011, 10:31 AM
If you have a bullet button, no 30 round mag in the rifle. If you have 30 round mags that you didn't legally own in CA prior to the ban, you can not bring them here assembled. Take them apart or build them as 10 round mags. Saiga+bullet button+10 round mag+922(r) compliant= good to go.

curtisfong
06-04-2011, 10:36 AM
http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

The War Wagon
06-04-2011, 11:16 AM
Hey everyone. Glad I found this place and I'm really glad it exists. This is the kind of website and community gun owners need to get things moving and I'm super impressed with what is happening. That said....here is my dilemma:

I have a very slick AK-47, which after reading around on this forum I have determined is pretty illegal in California, so it will be left behind. My main question regards my Glock 23. I have proof of ownership, sales receipts, etc. But do I have to let the fed-gov know I have it within 60 days of getting to California? How would they know when I brought it in? Do people get prosecuted for this? Can someone cite the law? Could I somehow exempt this pistol by turning it into a mod-rfile? Are hollow points illegal?

Also, do people get carry permits in LA or is this rare?

And my ending comment.....I hope Calguns and law abiding gun owners in California fix the laws, and soon. I'm boycotting Arnold's movies.


Good LORD, junior! I'm 9 generations from NC - the last 6 from Salisbury; what in the FREEP could possibly be of interest in L.A., that would make you MOVE there?!?! :eek::eek::eek:

PA is a big enough culture shock, but at least we're NFA/Class III legal - NO mag restrictions - NO funky stock mods, bullet buttons, or the like. Besides, ya' can't spell "guLAg" without "LA!" :eek:

Besides, where ya' gonna get a Cheerwine/BBQ fix in LA?!?! At least you can FIND Cheerwine in western PA. :D

Dreaded Claymore
06-04-2011, 1:37 PM
Yeah, what on Earth are you moving to LA for? I hear so much bad news about LA--from people who aren't into guns at all--that I never want to go there.

sneaker pimp
06-04-2011, 2:02 PM
A girl.....derp. :cool: Hey common, its a nice state! Oh and I don't think I will be literally in LA, like downtown, but at one of the beaches. Long beach, Redondo, etc. Are these still technically in LA?

Alright I guess I'll bring my rifle and make it buttonized....but boy does it leave a sour taste.:pinch:

That is if I can fly with this junk, I think last time I looked I could (stowed underneath obviously) but its been a while since I flew. I'll look into this too.


Looked over the flowchart again...I'm not sure if my rifle passes step 9. It CAN be fired folded and it is 27 inches in the folded position. 37" with stock out. After removal of the folding mechanism and fitment of a bullet button type feature, looks like this rifle will be legal.

Quiet
06-04-2011, 3:23 PM
Looked over the flowchart again...I'm not sure if my rifle passes step 9. It CAN be fired folded and it is 27 inches in the folded position. 37" with stock out. After removal of the folding mechanism and fitment of a bullet button type feature, looks like this rifle will be legal.

If you want to keep the folding stock, you can attach a muzzle attachment to increase the overall length of the rifle when it is folded so that it is 30 inches or greater.

Rivers
06-04-2011, 4:08 PM
Keep in mind that your handguns do not need to be on the CA roster (which is being legally challenged already) for you to legally possess them in CA. You can buy whatever handgun you want and move to CA with it, send in the $19 reg form and you're good. When you tire of owning said gun, you can sell it to a CA resident who desires said handgun. Just not with ASSEMBLED magazines over 10 rounds. (Note - the Rossi Judge is considered a short-barrel shotgun, not handgun.) Handguns like HK P30 and HK45 are examples of handguns not available to non-LEO in standard manufacturer configurations. (There is a single-shot mod allowing a workaround but I'm talking regular over-the-counter sale.)

Handgun or rifle, all magazines with capacity over 10 rounds must be disassembled prior to crossing CA state lines, and not reassembled in CA by a regular citizen. Only super-citizens like LEO can have standard capacity magazines. CDNN has a lot of 10-rounder mags for sale.

Pay attention to the neighborhoods in LA. Long Beach is VERY different from Beverly Hills. Look at the areas during both the day and night to see how they change. It's huge! Could be very safe when the sun is up but nasty at night. Just go to Hollywood and get your eyes opened. I used to live off Sunset Blvd. in W. Hollywood, next to BH. You just need to be very smart about what you do and when. And get some pepper spray!

sneaker pimp
06-04-2011, 9:44 PM
Keep in mind that your handguns do not need to be on the CA roster (which is being legally challenged already) for you to legally possess them in CA. You can buy whatever handgun you want and move to CA with it, send in the $19 reg form and you're good. When you tire of owning said gun, you can sell it to a CA resident who desires said handgun. Just not with ASSEMBLED magazines over 10 rounds. (Note - the Rossi Judge is considered a short-barrel shotgun, not handgun.) Handguns like HK P30 and HK45 are examples of handguns not available to non-LEO in standard manufacturer configurations. (There is a single-shot mod allowing a workaround but I'm talking regular over-the-counter sale.)

Handgun or rifle, all magazines with capacity over 10 rounds must be disassembled prior to crossing CA state lines, and not reassembled in CA by a regular citizen. Only super-citizens like LEO can have standard capacity magazines. CDNN has a lot of 10-rounder mags for sale.

Pay attention to the neighborhoods in LA. Long Beach is VERY different from Beverly Hills. Look at the areas during both the day and night to see how they change. It's huge! Could be very safe when the sun is up but nasty at night. Just go to Hollywood and get your eyes opened. I used to live off Sunset Blvd. in W. Hollywood, next to BH. You just need to be very smart about what you do and when. And get some pepper spray!

Thanks for the advice! I did notice at one area in Long Beach when I visited that it was super posh housing with ocean views and then 5 minutes away I was in the ghetto, weird.

Even if you could get a permit to carry isn't it hundreds per year to keep yourself legal?

Anchors
06-05-2011, 5:22 AM
Personally I would lock your folding stock open instead of putting a long muzzle-break on it.
Just make sure it is permanently "stuck" open by using a combination of rings, screws, etc. You can find information on how to "pin" most common folding stocks here.

1) Pin your stock open. Permanently.
2) Have a bullet button shipped to you in NC and installed BEFORE bringing it here.
3) Leave the 30 rounders at home or keep them disassembled in California (don't ever assemble them here unless you permanently block them to only take 10 rounds. Permanently is very important in this definition as well.)

And your AK will be good. Most of us here have AR/AK.
If you need an AK bullet button RifleGear - AK bullet button (http://www.riflegear.com/p-554-ak47-bullet-button.aspx)

^Plus once you get down to Long Beach, you can hop on the 405 and head to OC and check out their shop in person. It is great.

Welcome to California/CalGuns, as an Arizona native I feel your pain. But you'll find that the "gun culture" here is a lot cooler than the old hermits at the ranges in free states haha.

ccmc
06-05-2011, 5:35 AM
Keep in mind that your handguns do not need to be on the CA roster (which is being legally challenged already) for you to legally possess them in CA. You can buy whatever handgun you want and move to CA with it, send in the $19 reg form and you're good. When you tire of owning said gun, you can sell it to a CA resident who desires said handgun. Just not with ASSEMBLED magazines over 10 rounds.

So what about guns like full size XDms which only come with 19, 16 and 13 round mags for 9 mm .40 and .45 respectively?

ccmc
06-05-2011, 5:38 AM
A guy on my street is moving to Los Angeles next month. He's not a gun guy, and actually said it will be nice to live in a place where not everybody's packing heat :confused::eek:

Anchors
06-05-2011, 5:54 AM
So what about guns like full size XDms which only come with 19, 16 and 13 round mags for 9 mm .40 and .45 respectively?

You buy the XDm and permanently modify/seal the magazines to only hold ten rounds yourself before you bring them to CA.
Or you just bring the gun and sell the magazines in the free-state before you move.
Or you bring the magazines disassembled and keep them in parts until you use them out of state (what I do).
I assemble them after I cross the border to AZ so I can enjoy all 17 rounds and then take them apart again before crossing back into CA. Completely legal.

A guy on my street is moving to Los Angeles next month. He's not a gun guy, and actually said it will be nice to live in a place where not everybody's packing heat :confused::eek:

Typical anti-mentality.
My dad is not a "gun guy" by any stretch of the word, but he is a self-defense guy and a martial artist.
He has a CCW in Florida and three handguns.
You don't have to be a gun nut to be smart about protecting yourself.
Although there is nothing wrong with being a gunophile, firearm fetishist (Brady propaganda) and having to acquire one of everything :D

It is just like the car hobby. I'm not a "car guy" that restores hot rods or classic trucks, but I still drive to work because it is the best way to get there.
My dad doesn't seem to get my love of firearms because his are strictly tools of defense and not a hobby of enjoyment. It is all relative.

ccmc
06-05-2011, 6:11 AM
You buy the XDm and permanently modify/seal the magazines to only hold ten rounds yourself before you bring them to CA.
Or you just bring the gun and sell the magazines in the free-state before you move.
Or you bring the magazines disassembled and keep them in parts until you use them out of state (what I do).
I assemble them after I cross the border to AZ so I can enjoy all 17 rounds and then take them apart again before crossing back into CA. Completely legal.



Typical anti-mentality.
My dad is not a "gun guy" by any stretch of the word, but he is a self-defense guy and a martial artist.
He has a CCW in Florida and three handguns.
You don't have to be a gun nut to be smart about protecting yourself.
Although there is nothing wrong with being a gunophile, firearm fetishist (Brady propaganda) and having to acquire one of everything :D

It is just like the car hobby. I'm not a "car guy" that restores hot rods or classic trucks, but I still drive to work because it is the best way to get there.
My dad doesn't seem to get my love of firearms because his are strictly tools of defense and not a hobby of enjoyment. It is all relative.

Just bringing the XDm without the mags would be a problem since they don't make CA legal mags for that gun. It actually comes with a sticker saying "Not Legal In California And With High Capacity Magazines".

The funny part about the "not a gun guy" guy was that he actually thinks he will get away from guns by moving to LA. I didn't bother to explain he'll just be getting away from good guys legally carrying guns, and that there is no shortage of bad guys illegally carrying guns (and maybe some good guys as well) in LA.

sneaker pimp
06-05-2011, 7:49 AM
What if I sold the pistol, shipped through FFL from NC to Cali, and then my friend in Cali just went and picked it up in their name at the Cali FFL, as it would then be theirs. Legal? No need to register with the DOJ?

aklover_91
06-05-2011, 8:43 AM
What if I sold the pistol, shipped through FFL from NC to Cali, and then my friend in Cali just went and picked it up in their name at the Cali FFL, as it would then be theirs. Legal? No need to register with the DOJ?

Unless the gun is C&R, ALL firearms sales in California need to go through a dealer, private party or not. When he went to get the gun from the dealer he'd have to do the DROS (handguns are registered at this step), wait his 10 days, and then pick it up.

If you wanted to buy it from him, you'd need to take it to a dealer, pay the $35 DROS fee, wait your ten days, and then have your now-registered-to-you handgun. That's just how it is.

sneaker pimp
06-05-2011, 10:08 AM
Unless the gun is C&R, ALL firearms sales in California need to go through a dealer, private party or not. When he went to get the gun from the dealer he'd have to do the DROS (handguns are registered at this step), wait his 10 days, and then pick it up.

If you wanted to buy it from him, you'd need to take it to a dealer, pay the $35 DROS fee, wait your ten days, and then have your now-registered-to-you handgun. That's just how it is.

I guess there is no way around the DOJ registration, guess I'll just file the form.

Rivers
06-05-2011, 10:16 AM
What if I sold the pistol, shipped through FFL from NC to Cali, and then my friend in Cali just went and picked it up in their name at the Cali FFL, as it would then be theirs. Legal? No need to register with the DOJ?

You won't be ahead that way since the handgun gets into the system as soon as the FFL has it in their books, on receipt of the shipment of the handgun. Also, if the handgun is not listed on the roster, you cannot sell it via "shipping to FFL" at all. You can sell it face-to-face at a FFL to your friend. If your goal is to not have to register it, you're just creating a mess that will inevitably result in fail, legally or practically.

Even if a gun NEVER had 10-round magazines, I think that handgun can still be brought into CA legally, registered and used, as long as the more-than-10-round magazines have been disassembled. I don't think there are any restrictions if you modified your standard capacity mags to hold only 10-rounds and used those in that handgun. That might be more trouble than the pistol is worth but it should be legal.

The CCW picture in CA could change radically with a court decision or two, in progress now. In the meantime, your location in LA is right near the border between LA and Orange County. Since CCW is issued by the COUNTY SHERIFF and LA is essentially no-issue for the average citizen, you might see about Orange County's issue policy. Owning a business makes all the difference, however unfair, in San Diego County, southern neighbor to Orange Co. Until the Peruta lawsuit decision is reversed anyway.

Mesa Tactical
06-05-2011, 11:28 AM
Yeah, what on Earth are you moving to LA for? I hear so much bad news about LA--from people who aren't into guns at all--that I never want to go there.

Here's one reason:

http://gtinla.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/pd409882.jpg

When you look in the opposite direction, there's a ocean!

And then there's the weather . . .

There's more to life than guns. Shocking but true.

Anchors
06-05-2011, 8:15 PM
Just bringing the XDm without the mags would be a problem since they don't make CA legal mags for that gun. It actually comes with a sticker saying "Not Legal In California And With High Capacity Magazines".

The funny part about the "not a gun guy" guy was that he actually thinks he will get away from guns by moving to LA. I didn't bother to explain he'll just be getting away from good guys legally carrying guns, and that there is no shortage of bad guys illegally carrying guns (and maybe some good guys as well) in LA.

Doesn't matter. It is legal to bring yours here. Fill out the DOJ vol-reg form and throw a $19 check/money order in the envelope (get used to the illegal gun-bribe money). Just disassemble the mags and bring it all here then ask someone on the forum how to modify your mags. A few people here have XDms.

You should have reiterated that to him. There are a lot of very bad people carrying guns in L.A.
All he has done is get away from the good guys.
The last thing we need is one more anti-ccw person here in California. haha.

Here's one reason:

http://gtinla.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/pd409882.jpg

When you look in the opposite direction, there's a ocean!

And then there's the weather . . .

There's more to life than guns. Shocking but true.

It looks like that until you get in it, then it is filthy and disturbing.

That's why I sit back over here in Orange County (just North of you) and watch from afar haha.

QQQ
06-05-2011, 8:56 PM
Doesn't matter. It is legal to bring yours here. Fill out the DOJ vol-reg form and throw a $19 check/money order in the envelope (get used to the illegal gun-bribe money). Just disassemble the mags and bring it all here then ask someone on the forum how to modify your mags. A few people here have XDms.

You should have reiterated that to him. There are a lot of very bad people carrying guns in L.A.
All he has done is get away from the good guys.
The last thing we need is one more anti-ccw person here in California. haha.



It looks like that until you get in it, then it is filthy and disturbing.

That's why I sit back over here in Orange County (just North of you) and watch from afar haha.

OC > LA for cleanness and niceness (certain areas excluded)

But LA's a much more happening place.

yellowfin
06-05-2011, 8:57 PM
There's more to life than guns. Shocking but true.Until you move from a place that's nice to gun owners to places that aren't nice. Then it's like having both your legs cut off then watching a marathon run by in front of you or developing a life threatening allergy to your favorite food.

Mr310
06-05-2011, 9:31 PM
It looks like that until you get in it, then it is filthy and disturbing.

That's why I sit back over here in Orange County (just North South of you) and watch from afar haha.

Fixed it for ya. ;)

To the OP, where in NC are you coming from?

ccmc
06-06-2011, 6:25 AM
Here's one reason:

http://gtinla.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/pd409882.jpg

When you look in the opposite direction, there's a ocean!

And then there's the weather . . .

There's more to life than guns. Shocking but true.

Hmmm. I've been traveling to LA on business for close to 30 years. In all that time I've seen five or six days that look like that. Most of the time you can see the air but not the mountains from that vantage point. The weather's pleasant enough from a temperature standpoint, but unless you're right on the beach or above the pollution layer the air is irritating (to me at least). And I find people in LA incredibly stressed out and/or uptight, especialy when they're behind the wheel of a car. The beaches are too crowded. They're much nicer in NC.

There is indeed more to life than guns, but that's not the real issue. The real issue is when a government won't trust its own citizens with 2A rights. That's part of what makes the US such a great country, that we are one of the few where (on paper at least) citizens have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms which is the foundation of a truly free people. The first thing despots like Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Mao, et al did upon seizing power was to disarm private citizens. Maybe there's more to life than a nice day. There are a lot of them in Cuba (and less smog than LA).

Mesa Tactical
06-06-2011, 7:36 AM
That's why I sit back over here in Orange County (just North of you) and watch from afar haha.

I get that view from Costa Mesa amazingly often, in the winter. But my usual and preferred view is from the other direction:

http://www.mesatactical.com/images/279.jpg

Until you move from a place that's nice to gun owners to places that aren't nice. Then it's like having both your legs cut off then watching a marathon run by in front of you or developing a life threatening allergy to your favorite food.

Hmm, I have also lived in San Francisco, Paris, Brussels and London. They all (except Brussels) had their charms. Especially Paris.

On the other hand, I don't think I would move east of the Rockies for $10 million.

Again, guns aren't everything.

sneaker pimp
06-06-2011, 2:10 PM
Cali is way cooler than NC (Charlotte to who asked) in my opinion. Seems like the laws will be changing soon enough anyway.

ccmc
06-06-2011, 2:20 PM
I don't think I would move east of the Rockies for $10 million.


Make it 11 million and I'd even move to LA :)

A-Ron
06-07-2011, 12:41 AM
If someone happened to move to CA with a shotgun and pistol years ago, without registering, what would his options be to correct this error, and make everything proper and legal?

Librarian
06-07-2011, 1:01 AM
If someone happened to move to CA with a shotgun and pistol years ago, without registering, what would his options be to correct this error, and make everything proper and legal?

File that new-resident form (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ab991frm.pdf) for the handgun(s) - there's an explicit statement in the law that no prosecution will ensue if the only way the failure to register is discovered is by filing the form.

ccmc
06-07-2011, 6:14 AM
Cali is way cooler than NC in my opinion.

Cool is in the eyes of the beholder :)

sneaker pimp
06-10-2011, 8:48 AM
Would it be legal to import a rifle if it was disassembled completely? How disassembled would it need to be?

Bigtime1
06-10-2011, 10:32 AM
...she must be one hell of a woman. Everyone I know who grew up in L.A. is heading the other direction.

Best to follow the advice of the knowledgeable leaders of CalGuns than do something foolish and end up in L.A. County Men's Central Jail. The seventh circle of hell has nothing on that place.

As posted above, watch your neighborhoods. Daylight has a cleansing effect. One easy way to tell what you're getting into is a quick drive down a few side streets or alleys. Look for tagging and other signs of organized criminal enterprises and use that intel to your benefit.

How do you feel about earthquakes? :D

sneaker pimp
06-10-2011, 11:40 AM
Cali aint that bad, common. Besides my AK can come with me so I'm not so worried about zombies or gang critters.

Librarian
06-10-2011, 1:06 PM
Would it be legal to import a rifle if it was disassembled completely? How disassembled would it need to be?

Parts chop-sawed to fragments. Not quite entirely kidding there.

A disassembled firearm is still a firearm. A 'named' lower is still illegal; arguing that without an upper a named lower isn't anything but a generic firearm, not a semiautomatic centerfire rifle (as required by the definition of 'assault weapon' rifles) might actually win, but it would be an awfully expensive criminal defense for a couple-hundred-dollar part. And that argument might also lose.

For a not-'named' lower, the lack of a magazine lock device also could use that argument, and very likely with success if associated facts supported it; you would need a .22 upper or a bolt-action upper you could mount on such a lower, or no upper at all.

So, for ordinary considerations, 'disassembled' doesn't change much.

sneaker pimp
06-20-2011, 8:41 AM
If I am a resident of two states, doesn't that exempt me from being a pistol importer per California law, as I wouldn't be a new resident. I could leave the pistol here in NC at my mothers residence (mine too), then wait until I was legally a California resident. At this point I would be a resident of two states, and would not technically be importing the pistol.

Legit?

Librarian
06-20-2011, 12:13 PM
If I am a resident of two states, doesn't that exempt me from being a pistol importer per California law, as I wouldn't be a new resident. I could leave the pistol here in NC at my mothers residence (mine too), then wait until I was legally a California resident. At this point I would be a resident of two states, and would not technically be importing the pistol.

Legit?

Not clear what you are asking.

CA law is written as if a 'move' is a single event. We know it isn't. It is not at all unusual to move yourself and a change of clothes and start a new job. Your car may be transported here a week later. You may fly back the next month and pack some more stuff and ship it, etc etc.

But if you 'move' to CA and become a resident, in the Federal sense - "An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. " then CA expects that whenever it is that you bring in your handguns, within 60 days you will do one of the things it requires in 12072(f)(2) - send in the paperwork or sell it through a CA FFL.

If you choose to fly in 2 handguns a month for the next year, that's OK, so long as you owned them before you became a CA resident. You could not legally become a CA resident, and continue to buy guns in NC and then bring them in to CA UNLESS you maintained dual residency, and that's a legal can of worms I cannot address, though I know it is done.

sneaker pimp
06-20-2011, 12:31 PM
If you choose to fly in 2 handguns a month for the next year, that's OK, so long as you owned them before you became a CA resident. You could not legally become a CA resident, and continue to buy guns in NC and then bring them in to CA UNLESS you maintained dual residency, and that's a legal can of worms I cannot address, though I know it is done.

I think this last part here is basically what I was getting at. AFAIK you maintain dual residency if you maintain two residences. Only one has to be "where to plan to make residence" while the other could be a vacation home, or second residence. Obviously each state's gun laws apply while you are in that state.

What I am saying (hopefully this is clear and succinct :)) is that I become a resident in CA, but still have residence in NC, so then I have dual residency. So I wouldn't be moving nor would I be a new resident, but at some time in the future I just bring in my pistol. As far as I've read the requirement for personal pistol importation, I don't qualify as such.

On a separate note....how exactly would they make a case against you regarding when you imported said pistol. I could have taken a road trip to CA; had a family member fly it out; or any number of reasons for this pistol to have come into my possession within the past 60 days.

Sorry to labor over this, it just seems like a strange requirement.

Glock22Fan
06-20-2011, 12:52 PM
Sneaker pimp,

You seem to prefer not registering your handgun. Nobody has yet observed that there are some offences that are misdemeanors if committed with a firearm registered to you, but felonies if they are not (in California) registered to you. Such "wobblers" include carrying a loaded pistol and carrying a concealed pistol without a permit (two offences if you are carrying a loaded, concealed, pistol without a CCW.) Just stepping outside your door could inadvertently trigger that, so - for this reason alone, I would always advise spending the $19 ASAP and gritting your teeth while you do it.

sneaker pimp
06-20-2011, 1:06 PM
Sneaker pimp,

You seem to prefer not registering your handgun.

Correct. If there is a way to not register this pistol, while following the law, I would do it. If it is impossible to bring the pistol into California without registering it, I will just leave it.

But I've not advocated breaking the law and am not soliciting advice on how to do so. I would like to legally, and without registration, bring this pistol to California. If in the course of my questioning here, it becomes evident that this is not possible then so be it.

Librarian
06-20-2011, 1:28 PM
Correct. If there is a way to not register this pistol, while following the law, I would do it. If it is impossible to bring the pistol into California without registering it, I will just leave it.

But I've not advocated breaking the law and am not soliciting advice on how to do so. I would like to legally, and without registration, bring this pistol to California. If in the course of my questioning here, it becomes evident that this is not possible then so be it.

I think it's not possible to bring it here legally without subsequently registering it as a PHI, if you actually become a CA resident.

If you're 'just visiting' - college student intending to return home, military stationed here at Uncle Sugar's convenience, your company has exiled you the the West Coast - then no.

But if you wind up doing the kinds of things that residents do - voting, for example - then you no longer are a visitor.

Franchise tax board says (warning, long boring quote) FTB 860 MANUAL 006 (NEW 04-2009)
CALIFORNIA FRANCHISE TAX BOARD
Internal Procedures Manual Rev.: April 2009 Residency & Sourcing Technical Manual

2200 TEMPORARY OR TRANSITORY PURPOSE
CCR Section 17014(b) provides a detailed discussion of the meaning of "temporary or transitory purpose." According to this regulation, the determination of whether or not an individual is in this state for temporary or transitory purposes depends to a large extent upon the facts and circumstances of each particular case.
Generally, we consider an individual to be in California for a temporary or transitory purpose, and therefore a nonresident of California, if he or she is:
 Simply passing through this state.
 Here for a brief rest.
 Here for a vacation.
 Here for a short period to complete a particular transaction, perform a particular contract, or perform a particular engagement.

CCR Section 17014(b) provides that the state with which a person has the closest connections during the taxable year is the person's state of residence. In the Appeal of Richard L. and Kathleen K. Hardman, 1975-SBE-052, August 19, 1975, the Board of Equalization held that the connections which a taxpayer maintains in this and other states are important objective indications of whether presence in or absence from California is for a temporary or transitory purpose.
In the Appeal of Stephen D. Bragg 2003-SBE-002, May 28, 2003, the Board of Equalization included the following list of factors which, while not exhaustive, inform taxpayers of the type and nature of connections the Board of Equalization and the Franchise Tax Board find informative when determining residency:
 The location of all of the taxpayer's residential real property, and the approximate sizes and values of each of the residences.
 The state wherein the taxpayer's spouse and children reside.
 The state wherein the taxpayer's children attend school.
 The state wherein the taxpayer claims the homeowner's property tax exemption on a residence.
 The taxpayer's telephone records (i.e., the origination point of taxpayer's telephone calls).
 The number of days the taxpayer spends in California versus the number of days the taxpayer spends in other states, and the general purpose of such days (i.e., vacation, business, etc.).
 The location where the taxpayer files his tax returns, both federal and state, and the state of residence claimed by the taxpayer on such returns.
 The location of the taxpayer's bank and savings accounts.  The origination point of the taxpayer's checking account transactions and credit card
transactions.
 The state wherein the taxpayer maintains memberships in social, religious, and professional organizations.
 The state wherein the taxpayer registers his automobiles.
 The state wherein the taxpayer maintains a driver's license.
 The state wherein the taxpayer maintains voter registration and the taxpayer's voting participation history.
 The state wherein the taxpayer obtains professional services, such as doctors, dentists, accountants, and attorneys.
 The state wherein the taxpayer is employed.  The state wherein the taxpayer maintains or owns business interests.  The state wherein the taxpayer holds a professional license or licenses.
l Page 4 of 9
 The state wherein the taxpayer owns investment real property.  The indications in affidavits from various individuals discussing the taxpayer's residency.
It is particularly relevant to determine whether the taxpayer substantially severed his or her California connections upon departure and took steps to establish significant connections with the new place of abode. It is also necessary to determine whether the connections in California were maintained in readiness for his or her return. See the Appeal of Richard L. and Kathleen K. Hardman, supra.
Whether a person was in California for other than a temporary or transitory purpose must be determined by examining all of the facts. Mere formalisms such as changing voting registration to another state or statements to the effect that the taxpayer intended to be a resident of another state are not controlling. See the Appeal of Tyrus R. Cobb, 1959-SBE- 014, March 26, 1959.
Failing to register is a misdemeanor; penalty for late filing waived if the way they find out you are late is the registration.