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ap3572001
06-03-2011, 11:16 AM
Just for kicks :)
Would it make any sense for an a CA LEO to put in an application for a CCW?
Could they be denied ? :)
Just wondering.......

alexf2k9
06-03-2011, 12:16 PM
I don't think all off duty police officers can carry concealed. If that's the case then absolutely a CA LEO should put in a app for CCW to protect him/herself.

ap3572001
06-03-2011, 12:56 PM
I don't think all off duty police officers can carry concealed. If that's the case then absolutely a CA LEO should put in a app for CCW to protect him/herself.

I mean , an officer who CAN carry off duty.

Think it will look a little strange?

alexf2k9
06-03-2011, 1:49 PM
What would be the point?

wsmc98
06-03-2011, 2:40 PM
It was my understanding that most departments require their deputies/ officers to carry on off duty as they are a 24/7 type employee?

erik18
06-03-2011, 2:41 PM
All full time sworn police officers can carry concealed off duty legally. It is granted to them by the penal code. There would be absolutely no point in wasting your time and the department's time putting in a CCW application.

Ron-Solo
06-03-2011, 6:29 PM
And wasting money

Jonathan Doe
06-03-2011, 6:40 PM
I am not "required" to carry off duty. But if/when I carry, I "have to/shall" carry my ID at least.

BigDogatPlay
06-03-2011, 8:46 PM
All full time sworn police officers can carry concealed off duty legally.

LEOSA aside, in some classifications if the peace officer is not authorized the use and carry of firearms by their employing agency, then no they can't.

Notorious
06-04-2011, 12:18 AM
Not all officers have the statutory authority to carry on or off duty. If you are bored enough, read penal code 830, et.al., to see all the different classes of peace officer and which ones can carry, which ones may carry, and which ones cannot carry.

As for cops with the statutory authority to carry and also applying for a CCW, I don't know of any cops who done it here but I have heard of cops in other states who have applied and gotten CCW in addition to their statutory authority.

The notion was that if they ever got suspended or if they lost their job then they can automatically go to the CCW to carry instead of starting the process from scratch when SHTF.

I've thought about it just for S&G but don't feel like getting chewed out for wasting their time and also I have better uses for the money such as Destiny's college fund... At least that's what she told me it was for... Yeah....

jerkyg
06-04-2011, 6:30 PM
Howdy Big Dog,

With due respect...this is not true. Please read this precedent appellate court case...it includes peace officer with very limited powers to carry off-duty...ie, deputy coroners. I am not aware of any agency that authorizes them to carry on-duty.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=198201

The employing agency has no say in whether one can carry off-duty or not. The court also did not visit whether it was required to qualify your chosen off-duty carry weapon. Because it does not say so in the California penal code. It only says that on-duty carry qualification is up to department policy. But, you would be foolish not to do so...in case of a shooting...you would want to show you WERE qualified.

With that said, I will be retiring very soon..and being that I will be leaving a non-armed position within my department...I will have to get a CCW. That is specified by the federal "Bush" carry law for retirees.

Luckily, I live (work in a big city) in a small county and the Sheriff will approve my CCW. But, in many cities...they will not even though you are a retired LEO. Ridiculous...but, that is the truth.

Stay safe...

LEOSA aside, in some classifications if the peace officer is not authorized the use and carry of firearms by their employing agency, then no they can't.

Jared1981
06-06-2011, 10:03 AM
What would be the point?

There is one reason, the Federal GFSZ Act does NOT exempt off-duty LEO's.

The only practical exemptions to this law are...

1. On duty LEO's acting in their official capacity.

2. Any person who is licensed to possess or carry a firearm in the state where the school zone is located.

For the second one, the only way to really be licensed under the act is to have a carry license, a dangerous weapon license, or an Assault Weapon Registration certificate since that would count as licensure per the statute as long as CA law requires that before someone was issued a Assault Weapons registration card, that a background check had to be conducted.

What are the odds of being jammed up by the GFSZ act... who knows but you never know if and when you could get on the bad side of a federal prosecutor.

I've had a lot of other LEO's tell me that they are not concerned about this because no other LEO would jam them up on this... but at the same time, they will say "the law is the law" when dealing with some other people.

Something to think about. Granted State and local LEO's can't enforce federal law but some are cross designated for task forces and there are plenty of federal LEO's in California.

Notorious
06-06-2011, 7:11 PM
So you are saying the 24 hour peace officer status which allows us to carry firearms is not considered a license to carry but then a non 24 hour peace officer reserve officer with a department issued CCW is good to go? Sounds about right for a government scheme....

thefiveoh
06-06-2011, 8:55 PM
Even reserve officers are allowed to carry off duty if they are designated. All full time peace officers have the right to carry off duty, in any state. Refer to H.R 218.

As for non designated reserves, they all are granted a ccw. Not only a CCW, but an unrestricted CCW that allows to carry near schools.

The only officers who are not authorized by law to carry off duty are those who do not have full time peace officer powers. IE correctional officers, jailers, etc

Notorious
06-06-2011, 9:34 PM
Level 1 designated reserves are 24 hour so they don't need a CCW. Level 1 non-designated, and 2 and 3 reserves MAY get a CCW but it's in no way guaranteed. I know of at least 1 department here that does not automatically grant their reserves CCW unless they fulfill a bunch of requirements. Some have a length of service requirement, others have a FTO requirement before they will issue. It's a department prerogative.

However, with LEOSA, that might all be a moot point.

Notorious
06-06-2011, 9:36 PM
Btw, CCW's are not generally restricted when issued unless the issuing authority puts restrictions on them. That is, the default is unrestricted. The only restricted type is the work related CCW where it is only valid in the county where it's issued and not state wide as a general issue CCW.

Jared1981
06-07-2011, 8:02 AM
So you are saying the 24 hour peace officer status which allows us to carry firearms is not considered a license to carry but then a non 24 hour peace officer reserve officer with a department issued CCW is good to go? Sounds about right for a government scheme....

Correct.

thefiveoh
06-07-2011, 3:01 PM
Actually, a general CCW has certain restrictions as to where a citizen can carry their weapon. This is why on the CCW form you see multiple check boxes, two of which are for correctional officers and reserve officers.

Notorious
06-07-2011, 10:17 PM
Btw, to answer the other part of the OP's question, yes, LEO's can be rejected for CCW because the issuing agency's first question would be why don't you ask your own agency first.

The only time I hear about this kind of stuff is when a fed retires and has to ask the county sheriff for a permit.

Jared1981
06-08-2011, 8:41 AM
Actually, a general CCW has certain restrictions as to where a citizen can carry their weapon. This is why on the CCW form you see multiple check boxes, two of which are for correctional officers and reserve officers.

PC 12050 makes no legal distinction between general, judicial, or reserve carry licenses outside of the time of validity.

The only restrictions on a PC 12050 license are the picketing rules as well as carrying at the state capitol without permission (new restriction).

I know the AG's application makes up places where one can not carry, but they are just made up at the end of the day. They have no legal basis in actual law.

Jared1981
06-08-2011, 8:43 AM
Btw, to answer the other part of the OP's question, yes, LEO's can be rejected for CCW because the issuing agency's first question would be why don't you ask your own agency first.

The only time I hear about this kind of stuff is when a fed retires and has to ask the county sheriff for a permit.

Retired Feds in CA (who either retired in CA or worked in CA for at least 1 year) can apply for a shall issue 5 year license under PC 12027. It's similar to the retired ID CA LEO's get. 5 year validity and it's not firearm specific like PC12050 licenses are.

I have recommended to retired Fed LEO's in CA that they immediately get a PC 12027 license and find a LEOSA instructor to certify them for national carry.

GrizzlyGuy
06-08-2011, 8:53 AM
Have you volunteered for this (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=370135)? It might make complete sense for you to apply within the context of CGF's project. If you were to apply in one of the tough counties, and the sheriff turns you down, it would pretty much confirm that the county is effectively no-issue and provide CGF with more ammo in their reform efforts.

mej16489
06-08-2011, 10:34 AM
The only restrictions on a PC 12050 license are the picketing rules as well as carrying at the state capitol without permission (new restriction).


For 12050 licenses:
Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=338205)

003
06-08-2011, 2:14 PM
"It's similar to the retired ID CA LEO's get. 5 year validity and it's not firearm specific like PC12050 licenses are." - - Originally posted by JARED 1981


I have seen reference here on Calguns to retired California LE officers being limited to a 5 year CCW. While this may be policy for some agencies, I don't believe that it is state law. I do know that I have a lifetime CCW endorsement on my retired ID, as do all of the other officers that have retired from my agency, and all of the other agencies that I am aware of.

If someone here believes that it is state law that limits retired California LE officers to a 5 years ccw endorsement, I would certainly appreciate seeing the specific penal code section that applies.

I do recall a time limit for retired officer ccw was enacted a number of years ago, (20-30 plus years) but that was changed back to lifetime a few years after it was enacted.

Jared1981
06-08-2011, 3:29 PM
For 12050 licenses:
Definitive "Where can I carry in CA?" list? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=338205)

Good call. I missed a few. The gun show one was new to me. I skipped sterile areas because if the feds address it, I simply skipped over it.

Always learn something new on Calguns :)... even if the news aint good.

mej16489
06-08-2011, 3:40 PM
Good call. I missed a few. The gun show one was new to me. I skipped sterile areas because if the feds address it, I simply skipped over it.

Always learn something new on Calguns :)... even if the news aint good.

Oddly enough, its a really short list compared to even the best 'free-states'

Jared1981
06-08-2011, 3:40 PM
"It's similar to the retired ID CA LEO's get. 5 year validity and it's not firearm specific like PC12050 licenses are." - - Originally posted by JARED 1981


I have seen reference here on Calguns to retired California LE officers being limited to a 5 year CCW. While this may be policy for some agencies, I don't believe that it is state law. I do know that I have a lifetime CCW endorsement on my retired ID, as do all of the other officers that have retired from my agency, and all of the other agencies that I am aware of.

If someone here believes that it is state law that limits retired California LE officers to a 5 years ccw endorsement, I would certainly appreciate seeing the specific penal code section that applies.

I do recall a time limit for retired officer ccw was enacted a number of years ago, (20-30 plus years) but that was changed back to lifetime a few years after it was enacted.

For retired Feds that meet the criteria under California law (nothing to do with LEOSA), PC12027(E)(3)(i). The difference between this CCW and a retired LEO is that it is not subject to department regulations, but the sheriff may revoke it for "cause".

For retired CA LEO's there does not appear to be a 5 year rule; however, the law does allow for the renewal. So if your department issued you a lifetime ID card, then you are good for life :)

I'm curious to know what departments issue lifetime ID's. It would save retirees time and money as well as the agency.

Jared1981
06-09-2011, 2:28 PM
Oddly enough, its a really short list compared to even the best 'free-states'

New Hampshire only has courthouses and interregation rooms inside secure areas of jails or police stations.

My native state of Rhode Island does not have a single place off limits under the law. You just can't be intoxicated and carry (courts have held this to be a high limit, much more than just one drink).

Oregon only has courthouses off limits for CHL holders, as well as while riding ATV's.