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View Full Version : Apply for CCW; Get it; Have to Move; Apply (and pay $$$) Again?


Paladin
06-03-2011, 6:00 AM
I remember this coming up once about a year ago, but don't recall if the various lawsuits will affect this.

Hypothetical: qualified GG applies for a CCW (app + $$$); gets issued his CCW; he has to move within CA before CCW expires; moves; applies w/new SO. Can any of the associated fees (or training requirements) get waived? IIRC, not now -- he'd have to go thru the whole process and all fees again.

So my question is IF we win Shall Issue via the courts, will that alter the outcome (i.e., the requirement to go thru the whole process, incl all training and fees requirements)?

How do the current Shall Issue states handle this situation?

Oceanbob
06-03-2011, 6:05 AM
I think the CCW is good State Wide. I know a man who had one from Riverside California; moved to San Francisco for his job transfer.

Perhaps he will have a problem renewing...?...:D

sfpcservice
06-03-2011, 7:15 AM
If it's a standard ccw it is only valid for 90 days after you move.

uyoga
06-03-2011, 7:45 AM
How do the current Shall Issue states handle this situation?

In a lot of "shall issue" states, the License/Permit is issued by a "state", or centralized, issuing agency, and not by an individual county authority, such as a sheriff. In those states, all that is required is for the license/pemit holder to notify the isuing agency of a change in address within a certain number of days after the change of residence.

Decoligny
06-03-2011, 8:08 AM
If it's a standard ccw it is only valid for 90 days after you move.

As I read the PC, it should only expire after 90 days IF the license was issued based upon where the individual lived. I may be reading too much into it, but this looks to me to be saying that if the licensee used the fact that he lives in a gang infested section of a certain city as his good cause, then the license is based on "the licensee's place of residence".

12050
(B) If the license is one to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, then it may not be revoked solely because the licensee changes his or her place of residence to another county if the licensee has not breached any conditions or restrictions set forth in the license and has not become prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm. However, any license issued pursuant to subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) shall expire 90 days after the licensee moves from the county of issuance if the licensee's place of residence was the basis for issuance of the license.

bwiese
06-03-2011, 11:04 AM
I remember this coming up once about a year ago, but don't recall if the various lawsuits will affect this.

Hypothetical: qualified GG applies for a CCW (app + $$$); gets issued his CCW; he has to move within CA before CCW expires; moves; applies w/new SO. Can any of the associated fees (or training requirements) get waived? IIRC, not now -- he'd have to go thru the whole process and all fees again.

So my question is IF we win Shall Issue via the courts, will that alter the outcome (i.e., the requirement to go thru the whole process, incl all training and fees requirements)?

This may not really be an RKBA question, esp if the locale you move to does actually issue. As long as the burden is 'not that onerous' and follows CA law I can see it standing. If the fees are relaitively small and nonprohibitive (i..e, restrained) I can see 'cost of governmental operations' being allowed to be covered, esp since the sheriff/locale is the controlling authority....

How do the current Shall Issue states handle this situation?

Good question, but I'd bet it's generally send in a 'I just moved' form and no re-qual is needed.

wildhawker
06-03-2011, 11:29 AM
I remember this coming up once about a year ago, but don't recall if the various lawsuits will affect this.

None of the current wave seek to.

Hypothetical: qualified GG applies for a CCW (app + $$$); gets issued his CCW; he has to move within CA before CCW expires; moves; applies w/new SO. Can any of the associated fees (or training requirements) get waived?

I suggest reviewing the CGF Model Carry Policy as it makes clear the mandates and allowable local fees based on conditions. PC is actually fairly complicated on this (well, this and everything else).

IIRC, not now -- he'd have to go thru the whole process and all fees again.

See above.

So my question is IF we win Shall Issue via the courts, will that alter the outcome (i.e., the requirement to go thru the whole process, incl all training and fees requirements)?

Once we have an acknowledged fundamental right to bear, there will be some other avenues to make the permitting system less onerous and more speedy than as it currently exists.

How do the current Shall Issue states handle this situation?

It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Most "shall-issue" states have legislatively-created systems.

The Shadow
06-03-2011, 12:12 PM
I remember this coming up once about a year ago, but don't recall if the various lawsuits will affect this.

Hypothetical: qualified GG applies for a CCW (app + $$$); gets issued his CCW; he has to move within CA before CCW expires; moves; applies w/new SO. Can any of the associated fees (or training requirements) get waived? IIRC, not now -- he'd have to go thru the whole process and all fees again.

So my question is IF we win Shall Issue via the courts, will that alter the outcome (i.e., the requirement to go thru the whole process, incl all training and fees requirements)?

How do the current Shall Issue states handle this situation?

This is just one more reason we should have shall issue in California, and the issuing agency should be CaDOJ. Then the only issue after moving would be to simply do a change of address online.

wildhawker
06-03-2011, 12:13 PM
This is just one more reason we should have shall issue in California, and the issuing agency should be under some executive department or commission other than DOJ BoF CaDOJ. Then the only issue after moving would be to simply do a change of address online.

Fixed it for you.

1911_sfca
06-03-2011, 12:23 PM
As I read the PC, it should only expire after 90 days IF the license was issued based upon where the individual lived. I may be reading too much into it, but this looks to me to be saying that if the licensee used the fact that he lives in a gang infested section of a certain city as his good cause, then the license is based on "the licensee's place of residence".

12050
(B) If the license is one to carry concealed a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, then it may not be revoked solely because the licensee changes his or her place of residence to another county if the licensee has not breached any conditions or restrictions set forth in the license and has not become prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm. However, any license issued pursuant to subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) shall expire 90 days after the licensee moves from the county of issuance if the licensee's place of residence was the basis for issuance of the license.

There are a few types of CCW's: (1) based on the county of your residence, good for 2 years. (2) based on the county of your employment, good for 90 days. (3) based on being a Reserve Police Officer, good for 4 years. (4) based on being a judge, good for 3 years.

The part of the code you're referring to says that if you have the "normal" type of ccw, based on where you live, it expires 90 days after you move out of the county where it was issued (based on your residence).

wash
06-03-2011, 12:24 PM
If we are successful in getting shall issue CCW, the antis may be so disgusted with the process that they ask for the state to handle it just so that those Sherriffs don't have the stink of issuing permits on them (it smells like freedom).

taperxz
06-03-2011, 2:03 PM
I remember this coming up once about a year ago, but don't recall if the various lawsuits will affect this.

Hypothetical: qualified GG applies for a CCW (app + $$$); gets issued his CCW; he has to move within CA before CCW expires; moves; applies w/new SO. Can any of the associated fees (or training requirements) get waived? IIRC, not now -- he'd have to go thru the whole process and all fees again.

So my question is IF we win Shall Issue via the courts, will that alter the outcome (i.e., the requirement to go thru the whole process, incl all training and fees requirements)?

How do the current Shall Issue states handle this situation?

Perhaps a little to the right of topic but, what about those with a CCW moving to a no issue county? If one sheriff sees good cause, and your moral character could never be in question, you have a ccw from one of his brethren, could a denial to keep the cccw at the new residence be taken to court? What kind of outcome would we or could we see?

choprzrul
06-03-2011, 2:17 PM
Perhaps a little to the right of topic but, what about those with a CCW moving to a no issue county? If one sheriff sees good cause, and your moral character could never be in question, you have a ccw from one of his brethren, could a denial to keep the cccw at the new residence be taken to court? What kind of outcome would we or could we see?

Kinda like one of those instances where a person moves 10 blocks and ends up living in another county? i.e. you were freely exercising your civil rights, move, apply to the appropriate authority, and are subsequently denied the exercise of your civil rights?

CA Civil Code 52.3:

(a) No governmental authority, or agent of a governmental
authority, or person acting on behalf of a governmental authority,
shall engage in a pattern or practice of conduct by law enforcement
officers that deprives any person of rights, privileges, or
immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the
United States or by the Constitution or laws of California.
(b) The Attorney General may bring a civil action in the name of
the people to obtain appropriate equitable and declaratory relief to
eliminate the pattern or practice of conduct specified in subdivision
(a), whenever the Attorney General has reasonable cause to believe
that a violation of subdivision (a) has occurred.

The Shadow
06-03-2011, 2:33 PM
Fixed it for you.

So you would suggest a whole new bureaucracy ? How would that help ?

wildhawker
06-03-2011, 2:41 PM
So you would suggest a whole new bureaucracy ? How would that help ?

First, a fresh start and immediate accountability and transparency. Permit-based fundamental rights means the agency/commission has an operating floor of [at least] due process.

Second, do you want carry licenses administered by the agency who cannot even maintain the databases they are compelled to run (and have been for years)? Who regularly promulgate underground regulations? Who have a long history of being actively anti-gun?

-Brandon

wildhawker
06-03-2011, 2:44 PM
Perhaps a little to the right of topic but, what about those with a CCW moving to a no issue county? If one sheriff sees good cause, and your moral character could never be in question, you have a ccw from one of his brethren, could a denial to keep the cccw at the new residence be taken to court? What kind of outcome would we or could we see?

A total non-issue when *all* licensing authorities are compelled to respect the People's fundamental right of "bearing arms" for self-defense.

Also, there's no case in your example. As it stands, the licensing authority having jurisdiction over the new residence has independent authority to issue or deny a license.