PDA

View Full Version : Can you legally own a 10.5" Noveske upper?


1911Vince
06-02-2011, 10:20 AM
Can I legally own a 10.5" Noveske upper like the one listed below? The upper would ONLY be assembled in Nevada and Oregon to shoot. When I'm back in California the upper would stay locked in the safe diassembled.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lslp-556&cat=136&page=1&search=&since=&status=

Vince

69Mach1
06-02-2011, 10:21 AM
Do you have any AR rifle (non -pistol) lowers? Do you own any pistol lowers? How many pistol lowers and uppers do you have?

69Mach1
06-02-2011, 10:25 AM
Basically you want to avoid Fed. short barrel rifle, constructive possession charges. If you own both that short barrel upper and no pistol lower, and have rifle lowers, (doesn't matter where they are located) you are technically in violation.

djleisure
06-02-2011, 10:32 AM
Also, if you intend to use that upper on a non-pistol lower you will need to have the federal tax stamp for an SBR, even in Oregon and Nevada.

tomd1584
06-02-2011, 10:33 AM
what are you assembling it on when you get in Nevada/Oregon? A registered SBR lower? or a Pistol lower?

cmace22
06-02-2011, 10:46 AM
Anything under 16" barrel is a NFA item and has to either be on a registered SBR lower or a pistol lower regardless of the state.

If you have an SBR out of state and a pistol lower here you can switch between the two lowers when in that particular state. IIRC, you have to submit paperwork in California when bringing in a SBR in which case California can and probably will say hell no.

So if you have 2 legal lowers and they stay in the states they are legal in you can transport your upper with you and use on those lowers.

Like Mach said, make sure you can not get dinged why a constructive possession change in either state.

mif_slim
06-02-2011, 10:53 AM
Couldnt you put a fake can on it and "pin" it to be over 16"? hehe

thrillhouse700
06-02-2011, 11:15 AM
Yeah, you have to own a pistol lower, or else fed violation.

unusedusername
06-02-2011, 12:45 PM
Yeah, you have to own a pistol lower or not own a rifle lower, or else fed violation.

Fixed...

Avoid constructive possession. It's nasty stuff if you violate it because the feds come after you for that kind of thing.

MacDime
06-02-2011, 12:46 PM
yes

HK Dave
06-02-2011, 12:53 PM
3 Ways...

#1 Own the Upper but not a Rifle Lower

#2 Own a Pistol Lower

#3 Move out of state and pay the tax stamp. :P

Secret
06-02-2011, 1:31 PM
So you cannot own a 10.5 upper if you have a spare rifle lower that is not being used?

Then would owning a sbr upper without any loose lowers would be legal?

Rebellious
06-02-2011, 2:20 PM
Most people have it mixed up. You have to own a pistol lower period! It doesn't matter how many rifle lowers or uppers you have. If you don't own a pistol lower your asking for trouble.

So the answer to your question is....NO

tomd1584
06-02-2011, 2:37 PM
If you do not own ANY lowers, then it is OK to own a upper with a barrel less than 16" OAL.

Secret
06-02-2011, 2:44 PM
If you do not own ANY lowers, then it is OK to own a upper with a barrel less than 16" OAL.

So if a person bought a complete rifle from a store, then order a 10.5 that would still be illegal?

gatdammit
06-02-2011, 2:46 PM
^ AR Rifle? Then, no...(is my understanding) because now you would have a RIFLE lower in your possession and the short upper. If you bought a complete rifle, and a PISTOL lower and the short upper it should be cool.

rareair
06-02-2011, 2:48 PM
So if a person bought a complete rifle from a store, then order a 10.5 that would still be illegal?

Yep, highly illegal

cmace22
06-02-2011, 2:52 PM
So if a person bought a complete rifle from a store, then order a 10.5 that would still be illegal?


You need to have a reason to justify having the NFA item.

If you do not have a pistol lower or a registered SBR lower you are up a creek.....

If you dont have any lowers then you can have a less than 16" barrel.

rareair
06-02-2011, 2:53 PM
So you cannot own a 10.5 upper if you have a spare rifle lower that is not being used?

Then would owning a sbr upper without any loose lowers would be legal?


Owning an AR firearm (regardless if it is complete or just a stripped lower) and owning an upper with a barrel attached to it measuring less than 16" is a felony and constitutes construction.

To legally own an AR upper with a barrel less than 16", you must own one of the following:
1) An SBR registered lower
2) An AR lower registered as a pistol

and as others have already stated, NO AR rifles or lowers

Blood Ocean
06-02-2011, 2:55 PM
I'm pretty sure that if you order one of the 80% receivers and make even a single cut then that is sufficient to avoid constructive possession issues so long as you "intend" to complete the lower into a designated pistol lower. One cut beyond 80% is sufficient from the ATF to consider it a firearm. You may not even need to make a cut, perhaps an 80% lower and your intent to build a pistol from it are enough but really why haven't you already made a pistol lower anyways? It's not hard or expensive to do, and getting on the wrong end of any of the federal laws is both hard and expensive. I'd say avoid any shadow of a doubt and do it completely legally, at least from a constructive possession standpoint. If an officer happens to see you shooting your 10.5" upper on your rifle lower then that's your problem, just keep it in the desert and you should be fine in this regard as well. Please note I don't advocate breaking any laws, this is for informational purposes only.

ETA: You don't have to register or in any way designate your homemade lower as being for a pistol, but it can help to avoid confusion from uninformed LEO.

Baconator
06-02-2011, 2:55 PM
Owning an AR firearm (regardless if it is complete or just a stripped lower) and owning an upper with a barrel attached to it measuring less than 16" is a felony and constitutes construction.

To legally own an AR upper with a barrel less than 16", you must own one of the following:
1) An SBR registered lower
2) An AR lower registered as a pistol

and as others have already stated, NO AR rifles or lowers

Or your home built 80% that has never been a rifle, doesn't have to be registered :43:

rareair
06-02-2011, 3:10 PM
I'm pretty sure that if you order one of the 80% receivers and make even a single cut then that is sufficient to avoid constructive possession issues so long as you "intend" to complete the lower into a designated pistol lower. One cut beyond 80% is sufficient from the ATF to consider it a firearm. You may not even need to make a cut, perhaps an 80% lower and your intent to build a pistol from it are enough but really why haven't you already made a pistol lower anyways?

Very doubtful. An unregistered 80% lower can still be regarded as a "Rifle build" until it's a completed Pistol

OC-Indian
06-02-2011, 3:17 PM
Or your home built 80% that has never been a rifle, doesn't have to be registered :43:

Does it have to be registered after its a 100% pistol lower?

pdugan6
06-02-2011, 3:19 PM
if you have a pistol lower you are good

762.DEFENSE
06-02-2011, 3:21 PM
100% legal to own, what you do with it is another story. :thumbsup:

cmace22
06-02-2011, 3:22 PM
Does it have to be registered after its a 100% pistol lower?

No.

tomd1584
06-02-2011, 3:25 PM
If an officer happens to see you shooting your 10.5" upper on your rifle lower then that's your problem, just keep it in the desert and you should be fine in this regard as well. wait...huh?

Please note I don't advocate breaking any laws, this is for informational purposes only.
but you just did.

DannyInSoCal
06-02-2011, 6:14 PM
Or your home built 80% that has never been a rifle, doesn't have to be registered :43:

Kool - So we can get an 80% lower - Finish it and use it for an unregistered AR pistol...?!?!?

Why aren't we all doing this...?

cmace22
06-02-2011, 6:22 PM
Kool - So we can get an 80% lower - Finish it and use it for an unregistered AR pistol...?!?!?

Why aren't we all doing this...?


Haha I know. Ive know about this myself for some time but for some reason the light just went off. Im looking at my TM 80% right now and looking forward to my machining date with Roccobro!

SVT_Fox
06-02-2011, 6:52 PM
so many dudes have 80% lowers with pistol uppers its not even funny. join the CLUB DUDE

maker
06-02-2011, 9:25 PM
so many dudes have 80% lowers with pistol uppers its not even funny. join the CLUB DUDE

I have 2 finished 0% lowers. Does that mean since 1 is built up as a rifle I can make a pistol from the other and have as many short uppers as I want in storage? Serious? If this is true I'm going to pee my pants and spend some $$$... After I change clothes.

rareair
06-02-2011, 10:23 PM
Kool - So we can get an 80% lower - Finish it and use it for an unregistered AR pistol...?!?!?

Why aren't we all doing this...?

Ummmm, a lot of us already are :D

Rebellious
06-02-2011, 11:47 PM
If you do not own ANY lowers, then it is OK to own a upper with a barrel less than 16" OAL.
^
I would not go this route. Asking for trouble.

P.Charm
06-03-2011, 5:48 AM
Ummmm, a lot of us already are :D

somewhere a newish stoner asked...if we can just go to a doctor and ask him for a medical marijuana card we go buy legally....why hasn't everyone been doing this already?
;)

EBR Works
06-03-2011, 6:39 AM
Think of it this way: In order to own a SB upper you must have some avenue of assembling it into a legal firearm unless you don't have any lowers at all. Got a pistol or registered SBR lower? Then you can own as many SB uppers as you wish. Without these and concurrent ownership of rifle lowers, you have a problem at the Federal level and could do time. It does not matter where the separated parts are. They could be in several geographic locations. Be smart and don't screw around with this stuff unless you absolutely understand and follow all pertinent regulation. All of us don't want our tax dollars paying for your "vacation".