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Phantom_Piney
12-13-2006, 12:53 PM
Hello fellow Calgunners...:) I have a quick question regarding various types of bolt carrier groups that are out on the market and for sale. Very soon I am planning on purchasing a upper receiver for my OLL rifle and have noticed two different types of bolt carrier groups on the market. One is a enhanced F/A bolt carrier and the other is a S/A bolt carrier group. My question to all of you is can I use a full automatic bolt carrier group in my OLL semi automatic rifle or would this be frown upon by the DOJ or LEO as a big NO, NO!!! Also I was just wondering how many OLL owners are using S/A bolt carrier groups compared to F/A.

Thanks in advance. ;)

SemiAutoSam
12-13-2006, 1:01 PM
DO you have a Registered NFA weapon that this bolt carrier will fit into ?

If not why tempt fate and or the DOJ/BATF.

If you own a semi automatic purchase the Semi Automatic bolt carrier.

Where is the benefit of having a title 2 part in your title 1 weapon ?

nothing4u
12-13-2006, 1:04 PM
It really makes no difference which one you get because you don't have the full auto trigger group. ATF does not give a **** if you have a F/A BCG, as long as you don't have the other parts.

PIRATE14
12-13-2006, 1:22 PM
My .02 is get the one that comes with your factory test fired upper unless you are going with a custom build........:D

Phantom_Piney
12-13-2006, 1:32 PM
Well if my mind serves me correctly both bolt carrier groups whether S/A or F/A were priced at the same price. I figure if the "SHTF" and if the need should arise in some near future break down of civilization, it would be nice to have the option of transfering a F/A bolt carrier into a dead mans full auto rifle if I should happen to stumble across one. I know its a far fetched chance in hell, but it sure makes me feel warm and fuzzy. ;) Thanks again.

rkt88edmo
12-13-2006, 1:44 PM
AR15.com was made for questions like this :)

arguy15
12-13-2006, 1:47 PM
F/A B/C is legal. Some new colt AR-15s come with them installed.

SemiAutoSam
12-13-2006, 1:48 PM
Have you heard of constructive possession ? In other words if YOU had the F/A BC and a M16 LPK and a lower receiver YOU could be popped for constructive possession of an NFA WEAPON.

Wanna do the time that would get ya ?
Maybe this will help.
http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/

blacklisted
12-13-2006, 1:48 PM
I would get an AR-15 carrier with a shrouded firing pin. :)

arguy15
12-13-2006, 1:50 PM
F/A BC 100% legal. Just a a M16 LPK and a lower receiver could get you popped for constructive possession. B/C is irrelevant.

PIRATE14
12-13-2006, 1:57 PM
As I recall there is different laws with regards to CALI and the Federal parts of this.........

This goes on for endless debate in ARFCOM.......as long as you know what you are doing, the decision is yours to make:eek:

blkA4alb
12-13-2006, 1:57 PM
DO you have a Registered NFA weapon that this bolt carrier will fit into ?

If not why tempt fate and or the DOJ/BATF.

If you own a semi automatic purchase the Semi Automatic bolt carrier.

Where is the benefit of having a title 2 part in your title 1 weapon ?
Its not a title 2 part Sam. Constructive possession for machine guns only matter if you have the FA FCG parts. The bolt carrier does not matter at all.

As ARguy said, Colts ship with FA carriers.

bwiese
12-13-2006, 1:58 PM
You can indeed have an M16 bolt carrier in your AR rifle. Just don't have any other M16 part in there - fire control group or selector, or receiver with a hole in it...

Hell, Colt ships M16 bolt carriers on some of their civvy ARs.

Folks do like the heavier M16 bolt carrier - slows unlocking, may help reduce wear, makes cycling a tad less violent, etc.

blkA4alb
12-13-2006, 1:58 PM
As I recall there is different laws with regards to CALI and the Federal parts of this.........

This goes on for endless debate in ARFCOM.......as long as you know what you are doing, the decision is yours to make:eek:
California has no law outlawing the FA carrier. They are legal under federal law, would Colt ship all their rifles with a FA carrier if it was illegal?

They are legal.

SemiAutoSam
12-13-2006, 2:05 PM
OHH ?
A M16 Bolt carrier does not belong to a M16 ?

Is an M16 a title 2 weapon ? YES OR NO ? If the answer is yes then a M16 Bolt carrier is a title 2 part plain and simple.


Its not a title 2 part Sam. Constructive possession for machine guns only matter if you have the FA FCG parts. The bolt carrier does not matter at all.

As ARguy said, Colts ship with FA carriers.

bwiese
12-13-2006, 2:09 PM
There are BATF letters saying M16 bolt carriers are OK. Somewhere out on Bardwell site or ARFcom.

Colt itself ships the heavier M16 bolt carriers in its civvy ARs.

An AR with M16 bolt carrier and all other semiauto parts cannot fire full auto.

Apparently there are risks with even 1 M16 firecontrol part, so that's how this came to be.

SemiAutoSam
12-13-2006, 2:15 PM
Bill
I guess I'm a little cautious as Ive been thru the ringer on this topic. It took a lot of money to keep from spending 10 years on the inside.


Also this is from the BATF website
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#m1


Any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machine guns;

Any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machine gun;

Any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person


There are BATF letters saying M16 bolt carriers are OK. Somewhere out on Bardwell site or ARFcom.

Colt itself ships the heavier M16 bolt carriers in its civvy ARs.

An AR with M16 bolt carrier and all other semiauto parts cannot fire full auto.

Apparently there are risks with even 1 M16 firecontrol part, so that's how this came to be.

Fjold
12-13-2006, 2:18 PM
OHH ?
A M16 Bolt carrier does not belong to a M16 ?

Is an M16 a title 2 weapon ? YES OR NO ? If the answer is yes then a M16 Bolt carrier is a title 2 part plain and simple.


Does Colt use the same pivot pins, bolt stops, gas tubes, gas blocks, sights, forward assists , etc. in their M16's and AR15's?

If so, does that make all Colt AR's type 2 weapons with these parts?

SemiAutoSam
12-13-2006, 2:23 PM
Its not the same as the BC in the AR15 it has a specific application in the M16 that it does not serve in the AR15.

Beyond that you did not answer the question.

If you had experienced what I have with the FEDS regarding this topic You might understand my point of view.

Does Colt use the same pivot pins, bolt stops, gas tubes, gas blocks, sights, forward assists , etc. in their M16's and AR15's?

If so, does that make all Colt AR's type 2 weapons with these parts?

JPglee1
12-13-2006, 4:00 PM
I'll trade you a semi auto bolt carrier for a M16 carrier.

I have (2) AR carriers and I'd much prefer the shrouded (and heavier) F/A carrier.

Let me know if you're interested.


JP

Archenemy550
12-13-2006, 5:34 PM
Next BGC I get is gunna be a F/A one. I would go with the heavier fully shrouded one.

NRAhighpowershooter
12-13-2006, 7:17 PM
If you order a AR carrier from Creedmoor you'll get a M-16 carrier....

dw1784
12-13-2006, 11:43 PM
Bill is correct on Colt AR's- they're all shipped with M16 carriers now. Reduce cost and charge a premium- who wouldn't:D

Chk the archives. I remember pthfnder or glen avon posted a doj/end user letter saying it was ok. On that same thread, I think Sam had posted a pic of ar-sp1-m16 carrier from bighammer? I can't find it on bighammer anymore since the new site structure.

randy
12-14-2006, 6:25 AM
JPglee1

What is the benefit of a heavier carrier?

E Pluribus Unum
12-14-2006, 7:18 AM
As I understand it, members of free states who get local LEO approval may optain a permit to contruct a full auto NFA weapon. If these permits are near impossible to get one can certainly purchase a class three lower receiver.

I plan on moving to Nevada someday and obtaining class three weapons. It would be nice to use the same upper on the NFA weapons I will purchase.

For this reason I will be ordering the FA BC.

Fjold
12-14-2006, 7:24 AM
JPglee1

What is the benefit of a heavier carrier?

A lot of match shooters like heavier carriers with heavy bullets especially when you're shooting other cartridges, 6mm, 6.5, 6.8, etc. It slows the cycling rate down whch is easier on the next cartridge being chambered. Even though the bolt is travelling slower it still seats positively because the heavier carrier has more mass (momentum).

JWC6
12-14-2006, 7:29 AM
I have at least three different styles of bolt carriers, all different in weight and, ahem, levels of carrier key staking. I can't really tell much of a difference between them.

I did have a friend have some short stroking with a 9mm buffer and a very heavy stainless carrier (JP). This corrected after dropping a semiauto carrier instead.

SemiAutoSam
12-14-2006, 7:48 AM
LEO only signs off on a form 4 they do not give permission to build a NFA weapon.
http://www.titleii.com/pdf/010205-Form4.pdf see section 17

Below is the text of the area where the CLEO (Chief Law Enforcement Officer) Signs off.

I certify that I am the chief law enforcement officer of the organization named below having jurisdiction in the area of residence of
. I have no information indicating that the transferee will use the firearm or device
(Name of Transferee)
described on this application for other than lawful purposes. I have no information that the receipt or possession of the firearm or device described in item 4
would be place the transferee in violation of State or local law.

On may 19 1986 we as a county lost the ability to register NEW NFA weapons
Hence the phrase Pre May Sample and Post May Sample.

the NFA weapons in the middle are called transferable as they were registered prior to May19 1986. Any other NFA weapon MG that is there are other types but we are talking about Machine Guns here.

As a person in a free (or one of the 35 out of the 50 states) state may register a SBS or SBR or A suppressor maybe even a AOW.

These facts are why the "TRANSFERABLE" NFA weapons have risen in value over the last 20 years.

IN 98 I purchased a SGW M16 Lower receiver from a man just walking thru the BIG RENO SHOW with the receiver in a paper grocery bag this and a real sweet Maremont M60 and paid 250.00 for it the transfer tax was 200.00 but purchasing that 250.00 receiver let me build a real nice M16 CLONE that brought in the neighborhood of 15K when I sold it.






As I understand it, members of free states who get local LEO approval may obtain a permit to construct a full auto NFA weapon. If these permits are near impossible to get one can certainly purchase a class three lower receiver.

I plan on moving to Nevada someday and obtaining class three weapons. It would be nice to use the same upper on the NFA weapons I will purchase.

For this reason I will be ordering the FA BC.

Ghost16
03-17-2015, 8:36 PM
Written by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch
...M16 bolt carriers are not designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are not any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. Further, an M16 bolt carrier is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or a machinegun as defined in the NFA. An M16 bolt carrier is simply a machinegun part and as such its domestic sale and possession is unregulated under the Federal firearms laws. It is not unlawful to utilize a M16 machinegun bolt carrier in a semiautomatic AR15 type rifle.

Mitch
03-17-2015, 8:48 PM
Thanks for the trip down memory lane, Ghost.

Ghost16
03-17-2015, 9:24 PM
What, did I say something wrong?

drifts1
03-17-2015, 9:24 PM
Written by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATF) Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch
...M16 bolt carriers are not designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are not any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. Further, an M16 bolt carrier is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or a machinegun as defined in the NFA. An M16 bolt carrier is simply a machinegun part and as such its domestic sale and possession is unregulated under the Federal firearms laws. It is not unlawful to utilize a M16 machinegun bolt carrier in a semiautomatic AR15 type rifle.

THIS! This question was settled long ago.

Ghost16
03-17-2015, 9:27 PM
Wow, ok, sorry....it just interested me

bloodhawke83
03-17-2015, 11:33 PM
2006.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

ojahunzhe
03-17-2015, 11:35 PM
You can indeed have an M16 bolt carrier in your AR rifle.http://financenot.com/3k.jpg

Sleighter
03-18-2015, 12:32 AM
Can we have a Mod please lock this necrothread?

tashunkawitko
03-18-2015, 1:08 AM
It really makes no difference which one you get because you don't have the full auto trigger group. ATF does not give a **** if you have a F/A BCG, as long as you don't have the other parts.
yep.

pretty much this^^^

Mitch
03-18-2015, 5:17 AM
Can we have a Mod please lock this necrothread?

Why so much enthusiasm for locking threads?

skyblue
03-18-2015, 6:30 AM
Got a link or pic of that letter, Ghost? I'd like to print it and keep a copy in my range bag...

Jimi Jah
03-18-2015, 7:39 AM
It's pretty hard to find a semi auto BCG these days, all I see are full autos.

starsnuffer
03-18-2015, 7:52 AM
Was it really necessary to raise a post from 2006 from the dead for a pointless post?

Mitch
03-18-2015, 8:27 AM
Was it really necessary to raise a post from 2006 from the dead for a pointless post?
Thank you for bringing us to Page 2!