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kpinole
06-02-2011, 8:41 AM
Thoughts?

Us3rName
06-02-2011, 8:41 AM
adcor bear

bohoki
06-02-2011, 10:00 AM
well if you are going to have a 223 it might as well be as compatible with ar15 parts as possible

Richard Erichsen
06-02-2011, 10:02 AM
That really depends on what you want. If I recall (haven't checked recently) the Ruger is a fair bit cheaper and other than the piston driven upper, comments from current owners are "great gun, terrible trigger". I've handled one at a gun store, not at the range and have to agree, the trigger isn't great but could be ironed out by any competent gunsmith or some of the drop in FCGs available for a reasonable price. If you want an AR15 specifically, it's certainly an option I'd keep in the top 5 list for the price. Do you have a hankering for a piston system, or is it the price for the AR15 platform at this price that caught your eye? Did you mean the Sig 516, or the 556 btw?

The SIG 556, which I encouraged a friend of mine to buy, is not an AR15 platform but a Sig 550 platform (with it's own long history) and had a great trigger as is so often mentioned, was well made fit and finish wise and the only real "defect" was the crappy magazines it came with caused FTFs every 10 rounds or so. Since upgrading to the Magpul Pmags, no further problems. He bought the SWAT quad rail model and added the "obligatory" EOtech and then a 4x magnifier that I deemed overkill, but it's his rig.

The Sig 556 is a really nice weapon, has an adjustable gas system for addressing a really dirty weapon or really terrible weather conditions. It's a conventional piston driven operating system, easy to take down and quite ergonomic. It does not feel like an AR15, but I like it.

One note is that the Sig barrels are not chromed, rather they are nitrided/nitrocarburized instead, if that matters to you. In practice, the bores are tough and fairly precisely made leading to greater accuracy than your run of the mill chrome lined cold hammer forged military barrel. Also, most folks don't fork over big bucks for a rifle for home use and neglect it hideously, so normal cleaning will address any minor difference in corrosion resistance.

Both are great guns, though the Sig is almost guaranteed to cost more, especially the quad rail equipped SWAT models. If you have an AR15 preference and no other AR15 model will do, the Ruger is a fine choice though you'll need to dink around with it to get it dialed in which could equal the cost of a somewhat better model from another maker, or the Sig 556 for that matter.

If you don't need the piston operating system, you could find a cheaper AR15 and selectively upgrade over time, spreading the cost out (total cost will likely exceed the Sig 556 going street price, one of my reasons for recommending Sig 556 to my friend). So, as mentioned, it depends on what you want and what your budget is. Good luck.

-R

giants_fan24
06-02-2011, 10:06 AM
Sig 556 for sure.

rareair
06-02-2011, 1:16 PM
Get the SIG. You'll almost be guaranteed to be the only one on any given range day to have one!

Besides the other comments, the SIG is fairly front heavy. But for my style of shooting, it's a benefit. Speed shooting a SIG 556 has barely any muzzle rise

rareair
06-02-2011, 1:18 PM
adcor bear

If you go with this recommendation, my ADCOR B.E.A.R is currently up 4-sale for well below what the SIG 556 & Ruger are selling for. I paid $2200 back in April. I'm asking $1400

762.DEFENSE
06-02-2011, 3:29 PM
Neither ;)

prerunners4life
06-02-2011, 3:42 PM
Sig 556

ultra01
06-02-2011, 3:51 PM
SR556... I've put well over 5k rounds down range!

stix213
06-02-2011, 4:33 PM
Other Calgunners have reported that the Ruger has trouble with Wolf. I have never shot one so can't speak from experience. I also don't know anything about the Sig other than it looks bad ***.

pc_load_letter
06-02-2011, 8:24 PM
Neither, LWRCI M6A2 for the same price. Or their even cheaper M6SL

dirtyJ
06-02-2011, 9:27 PM
HK MR556. Why mess around with copies when you can get the original (albeit MUCH delayed into production :)).

tiger222
06-02-2011, 9:58 PM
Of the two mentioned, the SIG556, but you are missing an option by not looking at the SIG516. That said, if you can, get the MR556. It will always carry a premium over the others in resale, imho.

cheetah45
06-02-2011, 10:33 PM
Richard Erichsen: The SIG 556, which I encouraged a friend of mine to buy, is not an AR15 platform but a Sig 550 platform (with it's own long history) and had a great trigger as is so often mentioned, was well made fit and finish wise and the only real "defect" was the crappy magazines it came with caused FTFs every 10 rounds or so....

I bought my Sig 556 in Aug 09 and never ever had any FTF or FTE out of the 12 or 13 sig magazines I have...although it does try to throw the spent casings into the next county. With the Eotech XPS-2 on top, it is really hard to miss the bullseye.

Inquirer
06-02-2011, 11:54 PM
It'll take STANAG mags though, no?

Joe
06-02-2011, 11:55 PM
Ruger imo

GM4spd
06-03-2011, 5:51 AM
SIG556 for sure!!! Mags shouldn't be an issue as it takes M16/AR15 mags that have been around since the 60s and work fine-- not to mention there are about a billion out there. The SIG will digest any ammo and not miss a beat.If you don't mind paying for the original lo profile Swiss tritium diopters--it looks pure evil.Pete

http://www.fototime.com/C72B812620A4A15/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/BD73E08FCB3D775/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/7E14FCD48D679BC/standard.jpg

emptybottle151
06-03-2011, 9:26 AM
My sig 556 swat patrol was $1200 bran new. It shoots anything pmc, wolf, & reloads. Nice trigger and accurate. 4 yrs in the Marines and I still don't care for the AR platform, but thats just me. If you like aks you'll like the sig. Plus you'll be a lil different than everyone ells at the range.:cool:

stormy_clothing
06-03-2011, 9:50 AM
cmmg anything - my last ruger 556c was a real let down and that crappy looking toy sig doesnt inspire confidence.

I really liked my last m4 lep 2 and am thinking about building my 5th one soon. People keep shooting mine and buying them it's been a very popular rifle.

bwiese
06-03-2011, 9:55 AM
Sig 556s, to the best of my knowledge, don't have chrome-lined barrels.

I was gonna acquire one sometime back until I found that out.

missiontrails
06-03-2011, 10:00 AM
I had the Ruger SR-556C (14.5", heavy fluted barrel), it ran flawless....... nice quality, so responsive that I could dump a mag in like 2 seconds (not how I normally shoot BTW), and I put about 60 rounds of Russion through it, along with the usual 250 rounds of Federal M855........Perfect. The adjustable gas regulator is the key.

black_pacer_56
06-03-2011, 10:22 AM
I would get a LWRC M6SL upper. Why because it has the gas piston system that you want, one piece bolt carrier, and hammer forged barrel that good for 20k rounds. Then you could put any parts you like on your lower receiver that your want. I then would buy Magpul CTR or Vltor (IMOD or EMOD) stock in mil spec.

missiontrails
06-03-2011, 10:32 AM
I would get a LWRC M6SL upper. Why because it has the gas piston system that you want, one piece bolt carrier, and hammer forged barrel that good for 20k rounds. Then you could put any parts you like on your lower receiver that your want. I then would buy Magpul CTR or Vltor (IMOD or EMOD) stock in mil spec.

Not his question, and the Ruger also has a hammer forged barrel. The striking point for the op rod on the Ruger carrier is also one piece.

genesis121
06-03-2011, 12:10 PM
I have the Sig 556, I like it just enough not to sell it but that is it. In my opinion it is heavy, hard to clean and after thousands of rounds it still jams every 20 rounds or so.

Once again in my opinion, it is hard to beat the AR platform; light, reliable and easy to maintain.

kpinole
06-03-2011, 12:53 PM
There's been a few sigs and a ruger going for ~$1200 lately....I believe thats comparable in price to gas piston ARs

rareair
06-03-2011, 1:03 PM
Get the SIG556 and then install a 551 conversion. You'll be garaunteed to be the only person @ the range with that bad boy

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 2:54 PM
Richard Erichsen: The SIG 556, which I encouraged a friend of mine to buy, is not an AR15 platform but a Sig 550 platform (with it's own long history) and had a great trigger as is so often mentioned, was well made fit and finish wise and the only real "defect" was the crappy magazines it came with caused FTFs every 10 rounds or so....

I bought my Sig 556 in Aug 09 and never ever had any FTF or FTE out of the 12 or 13 sig magazines I have...although it does try to throw the spent casings into the next county. With the Eotech XPS-2 on top, it is really hard to miss the bullseye.

OEMs may have changed, I recall tracking down the OEM for his mags and at least for several batches, they had feedlips and followers that were out of spec. I also noticed his feed ramp area was rather rough and had a pronounced ledge that between the mag issues and the sharp ledge left very little clearance. The Pmags pushed the rounds further up and allowed a precious few mm of clearance. As with all things, YMMV, but the circumstance is one regularly complained about on the Sig boards, at least for those with some of the mag spares and complete weapons sold in mid to late 2010.

-R

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 2:57 PM
HK MR556. Why mess around with copies when you can get the original (albeit MUCH delayed into production :)).

I'm betting you are referring to the Ruger as a "clone" - since H&K 416/MR556 and the Ruger jobs are all AR15 platforms. That is not so of the Sig 556, which is a totally different platform.

-R

missiontrails
06-03-2011, 3:06 PM
I'm betting you are referring to the Ruger as a "clone" - since H&K 416/MR556 and the Ruger jobs are all AR15 platforms. That is not so of the Sig 556, which is a totally different platform.

-R

Almost more of an AK platform.

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 3:11 PM
I have the Sig 556, I like it just enough not to sell it but that is it. In my opinion it is heavy, hard to clean and after thousands of rounds it still jams every 20 rounds or so.

Once again in my opinion, it is hard to beat the AR platform; light, reliable and easy to maintain.

I didn't find takedown or cleaning it all that hard, just different from AR15. The only real bear to clean after a few K rounds is the gas piston face and plug, but you'll get that on the piston driven AR15s as well.

As for jamming every 20 rounds or so - do tell. Failure to feed I presume? Sounds like the original symptoms of my friends rifle before I assessed the out of spec contract mags and the less then perfect feed ramp area. I suggest obtaining some of the Magpul Pmags, or even some old steel STANAG steel mags that you can find on sale for about $15 and see if that licks your issue. I'm betting it will. I almost convinced him to have a local gunsmith debur that feed area, but the new mags worked so well it was unnecessary.

As for heavy - yeah, it is (say, compared to your average AR15). But even without a muzzle brake it hardly bumps when you toss lead through it. A decent muzzle brake on a lighter weapon could do the same thing, with substantial increase in how loud the report is when you shoot. Given that my friend ended up with a chunky Eotech + magnifier on top that added a few more pounds (probably in the 11 lb range at this point) and only shoots it at the range, weight isn't a factor. Ditto for home defense scenarios - weight not really a problem.

-R

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 3:13 PM
Almost more of an AK platform.

You say that like it's a bad thing. :)

I was biased in my recommendation, being more AK oriented than AR15 oriented, but now that the FTF issue with his mags is solved, he's a happy camper. He already had Sig 226 in .40 cal, easy enough to convince him to try their rifles.

-R

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 3:21 PM
Sig 556s, to the best of my knowledge, don't have chrome-lined barrels.

I was gonna acquire one sometime back until I found that out.

Don't let that stop you - the Sig barrels are nitrided/nitrocarburized and very tough. Chrome has it's own downside and accuracy tends to be one of them. Any minor difference in corrosion resistance between nitrocarburizing and chroming isn't going to matter if you actually clean your weapon with any regularity. I have several weapons that have neither chrome nor nitriding, fire corrosive milsurp through them and have yet to suffer any pitting or rust - because I clean them.

If you live in a high humidity environment, regularly swim in the ocean with your rifle on your back, the normal procedure of oiling does wonders. As for the outside of the rifle, you'll find most military weapons have crappy corrosion resistance and the only fix is often some other coating on top of the parkerizing - Gunkote, Cerakote, Alumihide, Black T, etc.

-R

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 3:32 PM
My sig 556 swat patrol was $1200 bran new. It shoots anything pmc, wolf, & reloads. Nice trigger and accurate. 4 yrs in the Marines and I still don't care for the AR platform, but thats just me. If you like aks you'll like the sig. Plus you'll be a lil different than everyone ells at the range.:cool:

I've never fired my rifle in anger, but it's interesting to hear from those who have. I was hell bent on making sure my friend didn't show up at the range with the same run of the mill AR15 everyone else had. I'm glad you agree with that sentiment.

-R

missiontrails
06-03-2011, 3:33 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing. :)

I was biased in my recommendation, being more AK oriented than AR15 oriented, but now that the FTF issue with his mags is solved, he's a happy camper. He already had Sig 226 in .40 cal, easy enough to convince him to try their rifles.

-R

No, not at all..... just a point. I have come close to buying a 556 a few times.

GM4spd
06-03-2011, 4:01 PM
Don't let that stop you - the Sig barrels are nitrided/nitrocarburized and very tough. Chrome has it's own downside and accuracy tends to be one of them. Any minor difference in corrosion resistance between nitrocarburizing and chroming isn't going to matter if you actually clean your weapon with any regularity. I have several weapons that have neither chrome nor nitriding, fire corrosive milsurp through them and have yet to suffer any pitting or rust - because I clean them.

If you live in a high humidity environment, regularly swim in the ocean with your rifle on your back, the normal procedure of oiling does wonders. As for the outside of the rifle, you'll find most military weapons have crappy corrosion resistance and the only fix is often some other coating on top of the parkerizing - Gunkote, Cerakote, Alumihide, Black T, etc.

-R

I agree "chrome lined" is way overated:rolleyes: Pete

Bongos
06-03-2011, 5:03 PM
If you want the best AK in the world, get the Sig556, it's dependable, reliable, and guarantee accuracy of 3" with match ammo, and 4-8" with everything else. I cannot comment on the Ruger as I have not owned one. I have had at one time three Sig556 and tested it thoroughly and concluded it's the best AK designed gun ever...

Seriously use your money on something else..

BTW Pete (GM4spd) knows my thoughts on the Sig556...

missiontrails
06-03-2011, 5:09 PM
The only reason I sold the Ruger SR-556C was because it was a heavy mother.........

http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd451/dehlers1/blaster3.jpg

beep_gun
06-03-2011, 8:00 PM
As a Sig 556 owner I like the metal mags over plastic. These work great with mine, D&H .223 / 5.56 10 Round AR-15 Magazine.

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 8:08 PM
As a Sig 556 owner I like the metal mags over plastic. These work great with mine, D&H .223 / 5.56 10 Round AR-15 Magazine.

Yeah, and those mags work well, while being tougher in my opinion than most poly mags.

-R

zombiescanlearn
06-03-2011, 11:46 PM
I went with the Sig 556 Swat. Then I sold the Sig Swat to my brother in law and went with the HK MR556 which I am picking up on Tuesday. By keeping it in the family, I can still shoot my Sig. It's a great rifle.

Speedpower
06-04-2011, 9:14 AM
SIG556 for sure!!! Mags shouldn't be an issue as it takes M16/AR15 mags that have been around since the 60s and work fine-- not to mention there are about a billion out there. The SIG will digest any ammo and not miss a beat.If you don't mind paying for the original lo profile Swiss tritium diopters--it looks pure evil.Pete

http://www.fototime.com/C72B812620A4A15/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/BD73E08FCB3D775/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/7E14FCD48D679BC/standard.jpg

Is the front sight original on your SIG? is it easy to install? I have the same rifle as yours but still have the original front and rear flip up sights that I want to upgrade.

tjburke85
06-04-2011, 4:26 PM
sig 516

Bongos
06-06-2011, 6:27 AM
here is a nice one and pretty good value with diopter at $900
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=441586

tashunkawitko
06-06-2011, 4:20 PM
My vote is for the Sig 556. Numerous previous posters have went in length to discuss the various pros and cons of the Sig, as well as the fact that these are two completely different types of carbines. So there is no real need to elaborate more on those points. Instead I will go into detail with the issues I have had personally with the Sig 556- and why I didnt go with the ruger.

To be honest I am a big Ruger fan- I love the 10-22, mini 14, p89, p94 Rugers, none of which has let me down, so about a year ago I was so close to picking up the SR556. In fact I had the same quandry as yours. After about a year of research and testing I went with the Sig and have little if no regrets.
I got the Swat Patrol. Only complaints I have are there is about a 5 micron play in the quad rail, due to my model having a 2 piece frontal rail that is not bolted onto the reciever. This can be easily rectified if just send it back to Sig and ***** about it- They are now making a new Sig quad rail with a single piece upper rail that is bolted to the reciever and is rock solid. To me the play in the 2 piece upper rail is truly insignificant- and has no effect on functionality of the weapon- my eotech or any future optics will be placed on the reciever upper rail which is securely bolted onto the reciever.

My other complaint is that my Sig factory 3 positon collapsable stock is kinda tight, with me sometimes having a hard time to put the stock in position 2- Alot of guys hate this star wars/ battlestar galactica looking stock inthe first place- but for me, it was a selling point becoz it looks cool to me and works just as well as others. Again no biggie IMO, since I know over time it will become less tight. Oh yeah another issue you may encounter is that the ejected brass will sometimes scratch or mar your ejection port slightly- but hey....chicks dig scars. I have seen guys fix this with putting a small piece of velcro or duct tape to protect- Me...I don't give a $##t about it since my weapon is meant to be fired, and not carried around like my gf's gucci hand bag.

As for cleaning the rifle, to me it is much easier than (meaning less carbon fouling, IMO) a DI carbine- I know this personally from experience because after getting the Sig 556, I picked up a DI S&W M&P15, in 556.
Sig 556 is definitely more heavy- but again...hey chicks dig guys with big arms- lift some weights and the extra pound from the sig as comapred to the ruger is negligible. My cuz is a Swat dude in CO springs and he along with a bunch of other my LEO friends as well as my local gun dealer/expert steered me away from the Ruger because of the many issues or problems that were awry with the Ruger SR556. My local gun dealer sold a few Rugers and apparently they were problematic and returned by the buyer for issues he did not elaborate on.