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View Full Version : The AR15 bullet button is dangerous!!!


Mr. Wannabe High Profile Banger
06-02-2011, 2:53 AM
Has anyone ever thought about this, maybe it could be used in Court against the AWB?

My father is, Older....
but he is VERY familiar with firearms of ALL types.
he basically thought me everything since i was old enough to actually hold a gun.

BUT.... the other day he wanted to check out my AR15 build.
obviously the first thing he wants to do when he picks up the rifle is SAFETY CHECK the Weapon.

So he goes to drop the Magazine and pull the bolt back to visually inspect the chamber.

What Do You Know?
the magazine is LOCKED (per California law) in the mag well.

Sooo my thinking is...
What if i had not been there to explain n show him how to remove and clear the weapon?
Im sure alot of "Gun Loving" people know how an AR15 operates just by watching a movie.
BUT most of them who dont actually OWN an AR15 would NEVER KNOW, why the magazine wont come out?


Now say, Fully loaded weapon
father/someone ask to handle it
or maybe even "find it" and want to make it "safe"
How are they expected to know how to unload it?

What are they expected to rack the bolt until the last live round flys out the ejector?


If you ask me, Id say California is lucky a situation like this has yet to cause problems with people who might be unfamiliar with the "California Legal" components of the rifle.

The War Wagon
06-02-2011, 3:22 AM
I think ALL the stupid stuff CA requires you to modify rifles is dangerous! Bullet buttons, those obtuse pistol grip adaptors, 10 round limits, etc. How can you even have a SAFE, PROPER, grip on your firearm, if it's re-designed so that it can't even properly be held (you can sure tell HOPLOPHOBES designed all that crap!!!)?!?!

I sure HOPE... when the balloon goes up, everyone has the GOOD sense to realize, that ALL bets are off, and to chuck all that stupid stuff; if you're gona play 'minuteman,' DON'T do it with one arm tied behind your back!!! http://www.ashokforums.com/forums/images/smilies/crazy.gif

tenpercentfirearms
06-02-2011, 6:50 AM
Maybe you should keep your firearms secure where an unknowledgeable person won't gain access to it. :p

Your idea will have zero traction in court. First, if he is knowledgeable with firearms, he would realize that he can still manually operate the bolt stop and he could lock the bolt back even though the magazine is still affixed to the rifle. He could then seek help to figure out how to lawfully remove the magazine.

If it was affixed with a Prince50 style device or he couldn't find anyone, this rifle is no different than a common lever action .30-30 that must be unloaded through cycling the ammunition through the firearm's action. So your old man could then simply cycle the firearm action, while pointed in a safe direction with the finger off the trigger, until the magazine is empty.

Sorry, this argument holds no water. Thinking outside the box is good though.

Untamed1972
06-02-2011, 7:17 AM
The thing I think where that argument might fall apart is that there are other kinds of rifles, bolts guns and Garands for example, that were factory designed with a "fixed magazine", and there are procedures for clearing, safety checking those weapons.

I think the agrument that a fixed magazine is unsafe, simply by nature of being a fixed magazine could get destroyed pretty easily.

I think the "arms in common use" and "arms suitable for militia service" (ie Miller), and the arbitrariness of banning certain guns simply based on cosmetic features should be all we need.

Bhobbs
06-02-2011, 7:57 AM
The thing I think where that argument might fall apart is that there are other kinds of rifles, bolts guns and Garands for example, that were factory designed with a "fixed magazine", and there are procedures for clearing, safety checking those weapons.

I think the agrument that a fixed magazine is unsafe, simply by nature of being a fixed magazine could get destroyed pretty easily.

I think the "arms in common use" and "arms suitable for militia service" (ie Miller), and the arbitrariness of banning certain guns simply based on cosmetic features should be all we need.

A lot of military bolt actions have a hinged floorplate so that you can unload the ammo without cycling the action.

The M1 has a eject button on the action that ejects the clip.

tenpercentfirearms
06-02-2011, 8:07 AM
A lot of military bolt actions have a hinged floorplate so that you can unload the ammo without cycling the action.

The M1 has a eject button on the action that ejects the clip.

What if I don't know how to push the button on either of those! :eek: Unsafe guns. Let's ban them.

RP1911
06-02-2011, 8:34 AM
Um. First rule is to remove the magazine and then check the chamber. If he doesn't lmow how, he should ask for help.

Write Winger
06-02-2011, 8:42 AM
If a problem or injury/death ever occurred due to lack of knowledge of the BB, the likely result in our litigious society would be the manufacturer getting sued. That might even be a stretch.

Still though, the AR15 wasn't designed to have a non-detachable mag. It isn't a configuration used for the common defense, and if we were a truly free and equal country, our military/national guard ought be forced to use what citizens are limited to.

hawk1
06-02-2011, 8:45 AM
Could also separate the rifle and unload fixed magazine by hand. Then reconnect and unload the chamber.;)

This will go nowhere.

dustoff31
06-02-2011, 8:59 AM
Has anyone ever thought about this, maybe it could be used in Court against the AWB?

If you ask me, Id say California is lucky a situation like this has yet to cause problems with people who might be unfamiliar with the "California Legal" components of the rifle.

To which CA would reply, "You're right, the bullet button is horribly dangerous, it is hereby banned. The current AW and magazine laws will remain unchanged."

stix213
06-02-2011, 9:05 AM
I hate the AWB, but this argument doesn't seem anymore dangerous than any unknowledgable person trying to operate any firearm. The only "dangerous" thing I see is if you used a BB'd AR rifle in self defense, and need an 11th round.

scarville
06-02-2011, 11:02 AM
It is good you are thinking about ways to get these stupid restrictions eliminated. However, I don't think this one would fly. At some point, every gun safety lecture I've heard stresses the need to check if the gun is loaded. It follows that If I ever pick up or am handed a gun I am not sure how to check, I will ask or I put it down. I think your argument could too easily be interpreted as playing loose with a basic safety rule.

OTOH, this is California so who knows.

Exile Machine
06-02-2011, 11:16 AM
How can you even have a SAFE, PROPER, grip on your firearm, if it's re-designed so that it can't even properly be held (you can sure tell HOPLOPHOBES designed all that crap!!!)?!?!

No hoplophobe here, and I'm pretty sure that all the other guys designing and manufacturing CA compliance parts (not crap) are not afraid of guns either. Hammerhead (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=52&products_id=1) is designed so that you can have a safe grip on your AR-15, pretty close to the hold you have on a wooden rifle

I suggest you withdraw your libel of CA compliance parts manufacturers and direct your energy toward removing from office those in the CA legislature who are responsible for this mess.

-Mark

Glock22Fan
06-02-2011, 11:34 AM
What if i had not been there to explain n show him how to remove and clear the weapon?

Stop. Don't touch. Leave the area. Tell an adult.

I think they have some bird that teaches this to children ;)

CHS
06-02-2011, 2:31 PM
PRETTY sure you can clear an AR-15 without removing the magazine. Your argument is invalid.

Wherryj
06-02-2011, 2:42 PM
The bullet button is a very dangerous requirement. I was driving to my local gun shop to pick one up and got rear ended at a light.

If it wasn't for the BB requirement, I never would have been hit by 4,000 pounds of metal. :rolleyes:

Hey, if the antis can base their logic and laws upon one isolated, unrelated and bizarre incident, why can't I? Bullet buttons cause traffic accidents!

bohoki
06-02-2011, 3:17 PM
i say it is not anyone who knows enough about an ar-15 they should know you just press the bottom of the bolt hold open to lock the bolt back

ETD1010
06-02-2011, 5:14 PM
Back in the day with my prince50, I would open the bolt to check the chamber (not all the way to push another round in) and then pop the upper up and push the rounds out with something. If you are familiar with an AR15, you should know how to do this. If you aren't familiar with the weapon, DON'T TOUCH IT. . .

HondaMasterTech
06-02-2011, 5:49 PM
lol @ OP thinking that California listens to logic.

KDOFisch
06-02-2011, 10:26 PM
I hate the AWB, but this argument doesn't seem anymore dangerous than any unknowledgable person trying to operate any firearm. The only "dangerous" thing I see is if you used a BB'd AR rifle in self defense, and need an 11th round.

I don't mean to be rude or wish it on anyone, but I would be very curious if there were a painfully obvious investigation following a tragic slaying of a victim trying to save his or her loved ones with a BB'd AR clone in this state, and wasn't able to reload the weapon in time because a ridiculous penal code not shared in the rest of the country prevented a good guy from operating the mag release of the rifle in the manner it was designed, only to meet his tragic end.

If antis tried to push back, I would send postcards of the slain family to the DOJ with a caption, "Maybe if he could've reloaded a little faster...":(

thrillhouse700
06-02-2011, 10:52 PM
I have always felt that FTE's and FTFs danger levels are magnified by having the BB. Especially more-so to a noob.

Helpful_Cub
06-02-2011, 11:01 PM
I hate the AWB, but this argument doesn't seem anymore dangerous than any unknowledgable person trying to operate any firearm. The only "dangerous" thing I see is if you used a BB'd AR rifle in self defense, and need an 11th round.

Your rifle holds 10+1 for a total of 11 rounds. Now if you need 12 or more, it's time to reload.

Mr. Wannabe High Profile Banger
06-03-2011, 3:14 AM
Yea an AR15 CAN be unloaded without removing a magazine
BUT is that how it was designed to be used?
does cycling the bolt to unload live rounds seem or even Sound as safe as proper use n handling of the weapon?

The War Wagon
06-03-2011, 3:35 AM
No hoplophobe here, and I'm pretty sure that all the other guys designing and manufacturing CA compliance parts (not crap) are not afraid of guns either. Hammerhead (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=52&products_id=1) is designed so that you can have a safe grip on your AR-15, pretty close to the hold you have on a wooden rifle

Oh - absolutely; they're just the bee's knees. Probably why they're catching on in the rest of the country, too. :rolleyes:

ALSO the reason I DON'T own any wooden rifles - I've never been able to get a comfortable grip with one.

shadowofnight
06-03-2011, 7:23 AM
Yea an AR15 CAN be unloaded without removing a magazine
BUT is that how it was designed to be used?
does cycling the bolt to unload live rounds seem or even Sound as safe as proper use n handling of the weapon?


Releasing the rear takedown pin, pivoting the upper up... and kicking out the rounds with your finger would take far less effort ( Not to mention perfectly safe ) and be much faster than manually cycling the action.

Somebody familiar with the rifle would know this immediately if their normal finger drop of the magazine didnt work, and somebody not familiar with the rifle shouldnt be touching it.

tenpercentfirearms
06-03-2011, 8:27 AM
I don't mean to be rude or wish it on anyone, but I would be very curious if there were a painfully obvious investigation following a tragic slaying of a victim trying to save his or her loved ones with a BB'd AR clone in this state, and wasn't able to reload the weapon in time because a ridiculous penal code not shared in the rest of the country prevented a good guy from operating the mag release of the rifle in the manner it was designed, only to meet his tragic end.

If antis tried to push back, I would send postcards of the slain family to the DOJ with a caption, "Maybe if he could've reloaded a little faster...":(

Why do we want to blame everyone and everything else for bad things? If you die in a gun fight, you die in a gun fight. It isn't the gun's fault.

Either my owning a regular AR15 doesn't violate the rights of others and it should be allowed or it doesn't. I don't have to die in a gun fight with a BB AR to change the law. My rights don't hinge on the stupidity of government bans. They are mine at birth and stand on their own.