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View Full Version : Mythbusters - Dodge a sniper's bullet?


andrewj
06-01-2011, 9:57 PM
I tuned in late to tonights episode of Mythbusters, but if I heard correctly, they busted the myth that you cannot effectively dodge a sniper's bullet.

They used the rifle's muzzle flash as the cue to initiate the reaction to move from the bullet's path. They found, however, that at the distance where there is enough time to react and move away from the bullet' path, the muzzle flash was not visible with conventional loads. Therefore its busted.

If I saw correctly, they used two rifles. The rifles they used appeared to be one of those Desert Tactical Arms bolt action bullpups and one of those Barrett bolt guns in .338.


How could this myth been better tested?

I'm no expert but a shorter barrel could have been used to create a larger and more visible muzzle flash, correct?

Both rifles they used had brakes. Do brakes reduce muzzle flash in any noticeable manner? If not, perhaps they at least redirect the flash making it less noticeable to the person downrange? Perhaps a plain muzzle would have created larger flash?

Also, calibers and powders. Any particular caliber or load that would inherently have a larger flash AND slower muzzle velocity?

Lastly and most obvious, doing the test in lower light conditions would obviously make the flash more visible.

Thoughts?

ETA:

A good summary of their findings
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-the-matrix-sway.html

Outta Control
06-01-2011, 10:01 PM
From the last thread :D

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=436414&highlight=mythbusters

I think their test is valid. Realistically the target would not be expecting a sniper at any particular time and where the shot will come from. So basically at the start it is a FAIL to event try to dodge a bullet coming from no where let alone you can even see the initial muzzle flash.

MrPlink
06-01-2011, 10:02 PM
I honestly never thought there was a myth behind this at all... esp if we are talking 338lm

brando
06-01-2011, 10:04 PM
Time of flight and reaction time are obviously important factors, but the reality is you would need a significant distance so that the time of flight is long enough to react, yet the farther away you are the more difficult it is to spot the shot.

In day time the #1 thing that gave away my SRS was the dust being kicked up by the muzzle brake, yet at night, even with pretty hot loads, the muzzle brake barely made a flash visible from even 10 yards.

andrewj
06-01-2011, 10:10 PM
So basically at the start it is a FAIL to event try to dodge a bullet coming from no where let alone you can even see the initial muzzle flash.

Agreed, if someone knows where a sniper is and is waiting for a muzzle flash, the sniper is obviously doing something wrong.... BUT the Mythbusters don't settle with what should happen, they seek out what could happen. Hence the possible "plausible" outcome.

RRichie09
06-01-2011, 10:19 PM
That show is so full of fail. Those guys really need to take some basic college physics while not filming the show or at least hire a consultant that knows what they are doing.


As for the myth at hand, I think most of you nailed it on the head. If you knew a sniper had his sights on you, would you wait till the muzzle flash to try and dodge a bullet?

Also, has anyone heard of this myth before?

Merc1138
06-01-2011, 10:54 PM
Also, has anyone heard of this myth before?

I've never heard of it. A lot of the things they've come up with in recent seasons were never "myths" to begin with. One of the more recent gun related episodes I've seen was about whether or not it was possible to shoot a merry-go-round and make it spin, it wasn't a myth it was something out of a movie. Mythbuster's jumped the shark a long time ago and I haven't seen anything on that show in years that I haven't simply laughed at for being ludicrous or sighed because their testing is so full of errors.

They went from being an "edu-tainment" show to a spectacle trying to capture the lowest common denominator of demographics, and simply focus on figuring something out that lets them blow something up on camera. It's kind of like how ZDTV turned into TechTV, then became G4(and oddly enough the Canadian G4 has a lineup closer to what TechTV had) with nothing but youtube clip shows, models, ninja warrior, and cops(as well as cops clones... campus pd, pfft.).

pyro3k2
06-01-2011, 10:57 PM
what season are they in? could just be as simple as they ran out of myths?

r6raff
06-01-2011, 11:04 PM
what season are they in? could just be as simple as they ran out of myths?

They have been at it for a long long time, they were bound to run out of available myths at some point. I still find there show entertaining, they get to do some stuff I wish I got payed to do, hell Id even pay to do some of the stuff they get to do. Some people get to serious about tv and ****, its entertainment, nothing more, nothing less. It sure beats the hell out of the million and a half "reality" shows and american idol ripoffs that make up the cluster**** that we call cable. I don't even watch tv anymore, just kids shows for the little ones and then the occasional military/natgeo/sci channel documentary.

Mr_Monkeywrench
06-01-2011, 11:51 PM
One thing I like about them is what they said during the silencer movie myth. they said It reduces muzzle flip, saves your ears, and reduces flash. They actually said it makes a gun safer and they are not super assassin tools.

Mr_Monkeywrench
06-01-2011, 11:51 PM
It also seems they are pro 2A

bob7122
06-02-2011, 12:25 AM
It also seems they are pro 2A

no one of them is not 2a the one with a nasty mustache thingy. he stated that guns were only designed to kill people.

HE STATED THIS IN THE EPISODE WHERE THEY FEATURED TOP 25 FAVORITE MYTHS/MOMENTS OF ALL TIME. the episode starts by saying that their first episode is their favorite one.

Big D
06-02-2011, 1:23 AM
Also, assuming you could dodge a bullet. How do you know which way to go? Maybe the sniper would have missed had you not noticed him shooting and stepped into the path of the bullet in an attempt to get out of it's way?

MrPlink
06-02-2011, 2:27 AM
he stated that guns were only designed to kill people.



so what?

Charles M. Failure
06-02-2011, 3:00 AM
Feh. Tell it to Neo.

Steve1968LS2
06-02-2011, 6:30 AM
he stated that guns were only designed to kill people.


Technically that is correct... but it's not the ONLY thing it can do..

But I digress..

Fun show and they ran out of real myths long ago.. now they do what ifs from the fans and stuff.

Like the "plane taking off on a treadmill" deal.. that was a big internet argument and they did a full scale test. Or the myth that cockroaches can survive a nuke holocost.. so they nuked some roaches.

Still a fun show and the redhead is hot..

Roddd
06-02-2011, 6:57 AM
I wanna see the idiot in the beret try to dodge a sniper shooting a suppressed 338 LM. I can't stand that guy.

supertrooper
06-02-2011, 7:52 AM
guns are designed to kill. just because we use guns for fun shooting targets dosent change the fact the they were designed to kill people or animals. is anyone really suprised that they ran out of myths after all the years they have done the show. its not a scientific study so who cares if a tv show made for entertainment doesnt get all the fact right.

Uxi
06-02-2011, 8:15 AM
Dodging a bullet sounds a little too much like far fetched Matrix shiznit. Juking to throw off the aim of someone sounds a bit more plausible, but realistically cover, concealment, and a plate carrier, if not shooting the other guy first makes more sense.

Merc1138
06-02-2011, 8:36 AM
guns are designed to kill. just because we use guns for fun shooting targets dosent change the fact the they were designed to kill people or animals. is anyone really suprised that they ran out of myths after all the years they have done the show. its not a scientific study so who cares if a tv show made for entertainment doesnt get all the fact right.

Uhh, the problem is that they present themselves as being scientific and a lot of viewers assume that they're correct because they don't know or understand what may be wrong about the testing.

r6raff
06-02-2011, 8:37 AM
no one of them is not 2a the one with a nasty mustache thingy. he stated that guns were only designed to kill people.


Last time I checked, guns weren't created to make bread...:rolleyes: I see your point, you are saying that they arent only to "murder" but are also for self defense. Unfortunately, their primary function is to make the person on the other side of the barrel dead.

He's never seen too anti to me, I think I remember him loving the 50cal in the shoot into water myth, plus, he does a lot of shooting myths as well I believe. Maybe he's not a hardcore cowboy like some are but hes not anti.

r6raff
06-02-2011, 8:42 AM
Uhh, the problem is that they present themselves as being scientific and a lot of viewers assume that they're correct because they don't know or understand what may be wrong about the testing.

Last I watched they never said that their works are 100% fact, they are just using a more scientific approach to investigating these "myths"

Like I said before, don't take it so seriously dude, its an entertainment program with a bit of education. Just be happy that we have a temporary reprieve from the incessant barrage of "reality" tv.

Don't like it, don't watch it, and if people want to believe they are physics gurus because they watch mythbusters, let them be delusional and correct them with your vast knowledge of the subject and testing.

Fiveohmike
06-02-2011, 9:06 AM
The guy with the mustache is Pro2A. They had a profile of him on the Discovery channel website. A lot of the black powder rifles used on the show come from his personal collection, along with the M1, and the semi-auto shotgun.

Ill have to try and dig out the video again.

MudCamper
06-02-2011, 9:13 AM
The fail of that episode is they used a 338 lapua with a bullet velocity over 3000 fps. They should have used a 230 grain .45 ACP from a handgun at 900 fps. They could then reduce their 400 yard minimum reaction distance to 120 yards, and had a better chance for success.

mif_slim
06-02-2011, 9:17 AM
Back in Nam, my uncle said while walking the route they heard wiz and bullets flying past them before they even heard the gun shot fired...said one of his best friend caught one in the neck and didnt even know what hit em.... Im sure dodging a bullet is possible, our brave men and women are doing it even today! ;)



PS: Also, I want to know when a 338 lapua flying in at 3000 fps is faster then say.... a 308 or 5.56 at the same rate?? LOL... just because the caliber is bigger doesnt mean its velocity is faster.

Lostsheep
06-02-2011, 9:28 AM
I think all of the naysayers in here are just jealous of their job. I know I am.

Don29palms
06-02-2011, 9:43 AM
Come on now! You've seen those guys that catch bullets with their teeth. I bet they could dodge a sniper's bullet. :tt2:

bluestaterebel
06-02-2011, 9:49 AM
I like the show

Outta Control
06-02-2011, 9:50 AM
... They should have used a 230 grain .45 ACP from a handgun at 900 fps. ...

Is that a sniper round? The whole test was to dodge a sniper round so your post is a FAIL.

thunderbolt
06-02-2011, 11:10 AM
You know the show has been on too long if they're testing myths submitted by Gecko45.

The show is entertaining enough (certainly better than some of the other new gun shows that won't get named) and they do a decent job of testing these myths so if they miss some stuff I'm not going to complain too much. However I think they have been using the "Plausible" label way too much lately. Just because the planets align and something can explode doesn't mean it will.

But dodging a sniper bullet? Not gonna happen.

dieselpower
06-02-2011, 1:02 PM
its like the skipping on water myth. there is no way a bullet shot at the perfect angle can skip & increase velocity...yet its dangerous to shoot over a lake...:rolleyes: now place a metal reactive target too close to a shooter..yeah have fun dodging rounds.

its common to see this in films, sniper pulls trigger, target sees muzzle flash, target dives for cover and bullet hits wall behind were he was standing. no one questions it...once again see a glint of a scope and dive for cover is within logic and taught in Military training.

RRichie09
06-02-2011, 1:03 PM
I think all of the naysayers in here are just jealous of their job. I know I am.

Yeah but that doesn't mean the show has strayed from its original purpose and is now just a bunch of guys blowing stuff up, which would be cool if they didn't pretend it was scientific.

I'm sure the suits had a lot to do with the demise (IMO) of the show, but still doesn't mean its become ridiculous.

But back to your original point, they do have an awesome job.




Last I watched they never said that their works are 100% fact, they are just using a more scientific approach to investigating these "myths"

Like I said before, don't take it so seriously dude, its an entertainment program with a bit of education. Just be happy that we have a temporary reprieve from the incessant barrage of "reality" tv.

Don't like it, don't watch it, and if people want to believe they are physics gurus because they watch mythbusters, let them be delusional and correct them with your vast knowledge of the subject and testing.

I know its not real scientific testing but the mistakes they make in their "experiments" is so blatant that anyone with common sense and poke holes in their logic.

And I have stop watching the show.

stormy_clothing
06-02-2011, 1:45 PM
alot of lame hate in this thread - both hosts are avid shooters - guns were designed to kill people - other uses followed but guns were designed to kill, they are weapons created for warfare. Because you can use them like the FSB does to shoot down icicles in Russia to protect people doesn't change there reason for creation.

All stories clearly fall into the 3 basic categories used to define myth

myth
- 4 dictionary results
myth
   [mith]
noun
1.
a traditional or legendary story, usually concerning some being or hero or event, with or without a determinable basis of fact or a natural explanation, especially one that is concerned with deities or demigods and explains some practice, rite, or phenomenon of nature.
2.
stories or matter of this kind: realm of myth.
3.
any invented story, idea, or concept: His account of the event is pure myth.

If not historical myth surely invented stories as those used in movies ect.

They do alot of fascinating firearms related tests like showing a 50 bmg bullet disintegrates when shot into 3 feet of water unlike popular culture and movies showing bullets traveling dozens of feet.

Maybe you like it maybe you don't but they have done more I think towards challenging formerly unproven facts than most other sources.

Outta Control
06-02-2011, 1:55 PM
http://dudelol.com/img/haters-gonna-hate.jpg

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac133/TheAssassinVii/Haters_gonna_hate.jpg

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/230/5/2/Haters_gonna_Hate_by_iYoshi22.jpg

dfletcher
06-02-2011, 2:11 PM
I wanna see the idiot in the beret try to dodge a sniper shooting a suppressed 338 LM. I can't stand that guy.

As I understand it, 1 or 2 live 338 LM rounds were found at the scene but discovered before the experiment was done, they were locked in a vehicle during the shoot. I have 6 unfired blanks used for the filming, they're real lapua brand 338 LM brass - 3 are full charges and 3 are half. No idea how much or exactly what type powder is used, or where they got them.

MudCamper
06-03-2011, 10:42 PM
Is that a sniper round? The whole test was to dodge a sniper round so your post is a FAIL.

No need to try and be so insulting. And in fact, you are incorrect. The myth was just "dodge a bullet". They decided to narrow it to a sniper's bullet to get the necessary range, yet they never thought to look at slower rounds.

ETA: Based on your followup posts, you seem to be vested so heavily in the show that you take criticism of the show personally. Why? Are you somehow involved in it's production? And FYI, I'm a fan. I've seen every episode.

Cokebottle
06-03-2011, 11:33 PM
They screwed up on time of flight.
They had 1.7 seconds for 1200 yards
The .338 ranges from 2710 to 3340 f/s depending on the bullet weight.

They were getting a measured 2117 f/s, and their plot was linear.

I think they reworked the "timer deactivate" trigger since the foil didn't work and used a microswitch on the target, so the delay between the impact and the target tilting introduced the 0.3 to 0.5 second error.

They could have simply used a couple of chronos... but doing it by math doesn't make for good TV.

Cokebottle
06-03-2011, 11:39 PM
I think all of the naysayers in here are just jealous of their job. I know I am.
Yup.

Like Adam said after test-firing the full-auto paintball gun mounted to the hood of the car...

Looks at the camera and says "you wish you were me!"