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View Full Version : The AK's been taken to another level.


acaligunner
06-01-2011, 8:39 PM
Here's a video of an AK based rifle, chambered in 6.5g and it shoots moa @ 100yrds.

dT4zh1Vfrio

What do you think about this over all? Do you like it, yes or no.

Do you think they gave up the AK's reliability for accuracy?

How about performance, would it be a good urban, 500-700 yard rifle.

How would this rifle compare to the scar/416. If the rifle could be made more modular.

acaligunner

MrPlink
06-01-2011, 8:43 PM
unless they completely redesigned the action, I dont see why it would be any less accurate really, that is assuming all they did was make an AK chambered in 6.5

cmace22
06-01-2011, 8:45 PM
Here's a video of an AK based rifle, chambered in 6.5g and it shoots moa @ 100yrds.

What do you think about this over all? Do you like it, yes or no.

Do you think they gave up the AK's reliability for accuracy?

How about performance, would it be a good urban, 500-700 yard rifle.

How would this rifle compare to the scar/416. If the rifle could be made more modular.

acaligunner

1. Its an AK and yes.

2. The accuracy is probably more in the 6.5 G round than the rifle.

3. Urban? 6.5 does good accuracy wise at range compared to 556, 545 and 762x39

3. Different caliber and different design. Compare how? More modular?

acaligunner
06-01-2011, 8:48 PM
More modular, like putting a rail system on it for ared dot sight, light, vertical grip.

I kinda like the idea, a reliable, accurate, good sized caliber weapon.

I would like to shoot one.

acaligunner

pyro3k2
06-01-2011, 8:52 PM
When 6.5grendel comes down in cost around 7.62x39 i'll pick one up.

acaligunner
06-01-2011, 8:52 PM
unless they completely redesigned the action, I dont see why it would be any less accurate really, that is assuming all they did was make an AK chambered in 6.5

Looks like they just removed the sights, for the scope. Everything else does look oem ak.

acaligunner

vintagedude88
06-02-2011, 6:40 PM
Why do I want 6.5G when 7.62x39 in an AK already gets the job done?

cmace22
06-02-2011, 6:44 PM
Why do I want 6.5G when 7.62x39 in an AK already gets the job done?

Who wouldnt


Expensive ammo
Expensive mags
Ability to hit a fly at 800 yards............ Mid flight.

Like pyro said. When ammo prices come down for 6.5 or 6.8 Ill bite. But I can almost guarantee mags will be pricey at least compared to surplus 762x39 mags.

ir0nclash86
06-02-2011, 9:18 PM
When 6.5grendel comes down in cost around 7.62x39 i'll pick one up.

This.

Chatterbox
06-03-2011, 7:52 AM
This.

Why not wait until it comes down to the price of .22? About as likely, really.

Full Clip
06-03-2011, 7:57 AM
Coming from Krebs, that rifle will be $$$$.

Vandal.
06-03-2011, 8:07 AM
When 6.5grendel comes down in cost around 7.62x39 i'll pick one up.

+1

:cool2:

BBJones
06-03-2011, 3:22 PM
I don't consider 3 shot groups to be sub MOA. Shoot a ton of 5 shot groups or a few 10 shot groups. No interest in a 6.5 , especially at the price I can imagine that one will cost.

Smile
06-03-2011, 3:41 PM
Would be an expensive gun to shoot!

I would pass unless it was a moderately priced rifle. Then I might be able to justify the expensive 6.5 im shooting.

MadRiverArms
06-03-2011, 4:47 PM
6.5 Grendel has been done before but it's nice to see something hit production for those that aren't inclined/able to take on an AK caliber conversion. The front trunnion and/or what would be the rear sight block looks to be custom. I'd love to see the gas block on that one.

-G

mlevans66
06-03-2011, 4:50 PM
As posted above the 6.5 has been done but the price of ammo is JUST. TO. MUCH! I would like to try it though.

wash
06-03-2011, 5:01 PM
For people worried about magazines, the Grendle's parent case is the 7.62*39, it should work fine in AK47 magazines (which is why Grendle is kind of messed up in an AR...).

Any way, a MOA Grendle isn't exactly hard to do in an AR, I bet that AK costs more too.

I like the idea if you just want an accurate AK but it's not really a practical choice until someone makes dirt cheap steel case ammo.

nick
06-03-2011, 6:00 PM
When 6.5grendel comes down in cost around 7.62x39 i'll pick one up.

Well, without the pressure from old surplus ammo, current military production and surplus ammo, and a bunch of Russians making it cheap, that's not going to happen.

cmace22
06-03-2011, 6:10 PM
I hoping the day will come that foreign ammo manufacturers start pumping out the 6.5 and 6.8's by the ship full.

The lack of competition is keeping the price high on these rounds.

Id gladly switch to one of those rounds if the price was on par with 556 FMJ's

MadRiverArms
06-03-2011, 6:35 PM
FYI, Wolf does make the 6.5 Grendel in their Gold line.

-G

cmace22
06-03-2011, 6:37 PM
FYI, Wolf does make the 6.5 Grendel in their Gold line.

-G

Really. Didnt know that.

ETA: 15 a box is better than 20+

Richard Erichsen
06-03-2011, 7:51 PM
Here's a video of an AK based rifle, chambered in 6.5g and it shoots moa @ 100yrds.

What do you think about this over all? Do you like it, yes or no.

Do you think they gave up the AK's reliability for accuracy?

How about performance, would it be a good urban, 500-700 yard rifle.

How would this rifle compare to the scar/416. If the rifle could be made more modular.

acaligunner

I dig it, but then I'm a fan of 6.5 mm Grendel and AK actions, but only as an experimental platform that will likely go nowhere. I probably would not rechamber one of my existing AKs or buy a new weapon from Krebs just to shoot this caliber.

As for the whole accuracy vs. reliability thing - there are more AKs out there with accuracy exceeding the capabilities of their owners than the other way around. 4" MOA at 100 yards may sound inaccurate, but in realworld conditions it's "good enough." A clean weapon with a decent barrel and good ammo can halve that (a few, like this Krebs, do better than that), whereas a warfighter suffering the stress of incoming fire may, assuming they get a clear shot at all, be lucky or very skilled under pressure to a score a hit anywhere on the torso at that same 100 yard range when the adrenaline is pumping.

If you want to have an "intrinsic accuracy" debate, all too often folks are comparing brand new weapons with quality commercial ammo to well used parts kit AKs and surplus ammo that may have been stored in some wet cellar in Eastern Europe for the last 40 years, much of which was likely marginally consistent at best when new.

If you want an accurate AK (in any caliber) quality components are a must. Proper headspace (set for the minimum, it only ever gets larger with use), known quality ammo and use a good barrel - used barrels are notorious for erosion at the throat and crown and metal fouling of the barrel rifling doesn't help either. I'd bet this particular Krebs 6.5G AK could still manage a couple handfuls of dirt into the action and still go bang.

You don't go to a 6.5G chambering in the mistaken belief it will automatically improve the accuracy of the AK platform - it won't. What 6.5G gives you over 7.62x39 mm is improved ballistic coefficients, which gives longer effective range, flatter trajectory and thus less distance calculation (wider margin of error). What 6.5G gives you over the 5.45x39 mm is more energy (momentum) and barrier penetration. Below 200 yards, the benefits of 6.5G are marginal enough to not really bother with over either of the rounds mentioned.

500-700 yard range is NOT what a 16" barrel carbine was intended for. Those kinds of ranges demand an optics equipped rifle and a longer barrel wouldn't hurt. For skewering BGs in many types of commonly available body armor, 6.5G has been found to do admirably given the high sectional densities even without hardened penetrators in their cores.

I don't see much point in 6.5G chambering other than "gee whiz" factor despite some of the technical merits - most of them apply to military and not the civilian shooter. For a single caliber to use in a carbine, DMR weapon, SAW and GPMG, 6.5G would be my choice if I were dictator for a day and could equip my army with whatever I wanted, but that's not going to happen.

Beware boutique calibers that provide some minor benefits but cost an arm and a leg to shoot, more or less demand you reload to use that caliber economically. Unless you compete and find some prize winning advantage, I don't see a whole lot of value in going this route. As much as I like 6.5G, its more likely to remain a niche market, whether the arm chambering it is AR15, AK or some other civilian semi-auto.

-R

tujungatoes
06-03-2011, 10:00 PM
Bah!....IMO if you're gonna buy an AK in a retarded proprietary caliber...go BIG. .460 alliance (http://www.alliancearmament.com/460AK47.aspx).

pkqBtsA5eFA

r6raff
06-03-2011, 10:15 PM
I'd rather stick with the 7.62x39 AK and grab a 6.5 or 6.8 AR upper, most likely will be cheaper as well.

Curious, how much would that rifle cost?

I'd consider picking one up if it was priced cheaply, still wouldn't shoot it often considering the cost of ammo =\

acaligunner
06-03-2011, 10:15 PM
I dig it, but then I'm a fan of 6.5 mm Grendel and AK actions, but only as an experimental platform that will likely go nowhere. I probably would not rechamber one of my existing AKs or buy a new weapon from Krebs just to shoot this caliber.

As for the whole accuracy vs. reliability thing - there are more AKs out there with accuracy exceeding the capabilities of their owners than the other way around. 4" MOA at 100 yards may sound inaccurate, but in realworld conditions it's "good enough." A clean weapon with a decent barrel and good ammo can halve that (a few, like this Krebs, do better than that), whereas a warfighter suffering the stress of incoming fire may, assuming they get a clear shot at all, be lucky or very skilled under pressure to a score a hit anywhere on the torso at that same 100 yard range when the adrenaline is pumping.

If you want to have an "intrinsic accuracy" debate, all too often folks are comparing brand new weapons with quality commercial ammo to well used parts kit AKs and surplus ammo that may have been stored in some wet cellar in Eastern Europe for the last 40 years, much of which was likely marginally consistent at best when new.

If you want an accurate AK (in any caliber) quality components are a must. Proper headspace (set for the minimum, it only ever gets larger with use), known quality ammo and use a good barrel - used barrels are notorious for erosion at the throat and crown and metal fouling of the barrel rifling doesn't help either. I'd bet this particular Krebs 6.5G AK could still manage a couple handfuls of dirt into the action and still go bang.

You don't go to a 6.5G chambering in the mistaken belief it will automatically improve the accuracy of the AK platform - it won't. What 6.5G gives you over 7.62x39 mm is improved ballistic coefficients, which gives longer effective range, flatter trajectory and thus less distance calculation (wider margin of error). What 6.5G gives you over the 5.45x39 mm is more energy (momentum) and barrier penetration. Below 200 yards, the benefits of 6.5G are marginal enough to not really bother with over either of the rounds mentioned.

500-700 yard range is NOT what a 16" barrel carbine was intended for. Those kinds of ranges demand an optics equipped rifle and a longer barrel wouldn't hurt. For skewering BGs in many types of commonly available body armor, 6.5G has been found to do admirably given the high sectional densities even without hardened penetrators in their cores.

I don't see much point in 6.5G chambering other than "gee whiz" factor despite some of the technical merits - most of them apply to military and not the civilian shooter. For a single caliber to use in a carbine, DMR weapon, SAW and GPMG, 6.5G would be my choice if I were dictator for a day and could equip my army with whatever I wanted, but that's not going to happen.

Beware boutique calibers that provide some minor benefits but cost an arm and a leg to shoot, more or less demand you reload to use that caliber economically. Unless you compete and find some prize winning advantage, I don't see a whole lot of value in going this route. As much as I like 6.5G, its more likely to remain a niche market, whether the arm chambering it is AR15, AK or some other civilian semi-auto.

-R


sounds good, thanks

acaligunner

battleship
06-03-2011, 10:29 PM
The fact that its built by KREBS takes it to a whole new level, they build the best AK's on the planet.

RMTactical
06-03-2011, 10:34 PM
I don't really see the point. I would get an AK47 over that for sure.

pyro3k2
06-03-2011, 10:45 PM
Bah!....IMO if you're gonna buy an AK in a retarded proprietary caliber...go BIG. .460 alliance (http://www.alliancearmament.com/460AK47.aspx).

pkqBtsA5eFA

...7.62x39 not powerful enough???...

tujungatoes
06-04-2011, 7:10 AM
...7.62x39 not powerful enough???...

Well sure it is....for normal stuff. What are you gonna do when the zombie moose start coming down from Canada though?:TFH:

straykiller
06-04-2011, 10:32 AM
:rofl2:Well sure it is....for normal stuff. What are you gonna do when the zombie moose start coming down from Canada though?:TFH:

Sheepdog1968
06-04-2011, 10:43 AM
Personally, I stick to very common rounds that have been around a long time. I'm still leary about the 40 cal pistol round though there is likely enough LEO use for it to be established. The 6.5 G to me does not fit the bill as a common round so I am not interested.

RobGR
06-04-2011, 11:07 AM
Well, it's good to see Krebs experimenting with the platform, as others do. One thing that does make it worthwhile is that it is a Krebs custom, therefore I can safely assume it's quality production... whereas, if this was Century releasing an AK in a new caliber.... jeez louise... it'd probably make for a good Live Leak video at the expense of the poor soul shooting it.

Hope to get a Krebs one day, but definitely will stick to a common, cost effective caliber.

Solidsnake87
06-04-2011, 12:18 PM
Until I've fired it with handloads it was a lucky grouping.

With an AR, I've gotten groups through the same hole with plinking ammo followed by 3" groups with the same ammo. Just because a gun got one good grouping does not mean its an "MOA" gun.

This isn't to say the AK can't be accurate. I doubt if anyone on this forum has handloaded for an AK using match components, a quality mount, and a quality optic. Until somebody does, these guns are going to be 4" shooters at 100 yards at best with plinking ammo.

CK_32
06-04-2011, 12:19 PM
Its not really even the AK its the beast of a round 6.5 gren... Makes anything accurate.

RodFromGod86
06-04-2011, 12:42 PM
For people worried about magazines, the Grendle's parent case is the 7.62*39, it should work fine in AK47 magazines (which is why Grendle is kind of messed up in an AR...).

Nope, not quite. While the Grendel case is based on the 7.62x39 case, the round is a tad longer and the case does not have enough taper to be properly fed in an AK magazine or AR magazine, hence the need for a proprietary magazine.

However, since the head dimensions of the case are the same as the 7.62, you can still use the same bolt carrier... :D

Richard Erichsen
06-04-2011, 1:46 PM
Its not really even the AK its the beast of a round 6.5 gren... Makes anything accurate.

Oh if that were true - try chambering carefully made handloads (in any caliber) into a well worn weapon with out of spec throat/chamber and headspacing and you may reconsider.

Johnnykck
06-04-2011, 2:07 PM
interesting, but I'll keep my M1A. Shoots just under 1 1/4 MOA at 100 yards with german surplus ammo (DAG). Just under MOA with quality .308 ammo. It's reliable, proven in battle and american.