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View Full Version : Modernized Tactical Mosin M44... anyone done this?


enchantor
12-13-2006, 7:38 AM
******

triggerhappy
12-13-2006, 8:07 AM
Well, I dunno about a sniper rig, but I did put a sniper bolt on mine, as well as a forward-mounted scope, a la Jeff Cooper's scout idea. I kinda like it, though it's till a work in progress.

At the price they go for, it leaves plenty of bucks to modify it how you want.

Have fun!

proraptor
12-13-2006, 8:29 AM
My mosin is going to be better than yours eric!

Fate
12-13-2006, 9:36 AM
Is your M44 even capable of "sniper-like" shooting to begin with? Typically these shoot "minute of pie plate". Make sure it can handle the job with iron sights before you drop the cash to trick it out. Getting the bayonut lug off isn't easy either. Futhermore you should check out www.7.62x54r.net and view the "rarity" page to see if that "old Russian junk" is actually a valuable collector's piece before you go and destroy it.

triggerhappy
12-13-2006, 9:55 AM
minute of pie plate? LOL

On that note...

http://www.7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinHumor.htm

guimus
12-13-2006, 10:34 AM
I picked up two M38's at Big 5 a few months ago when I could get them out the door for $94/ea. Cleaned them up well, test fired them, determined which one shot better and did a little sporterizing. I went with one of the cheapo kits from the web with a plastic stock (w/ recoil pad), bipod, scout scope mount (replaces the battle sight in the same holes, so no smithing necessary and it's reversable) and a cheap long eye relief scope.

At 100 yards it will generally put 4 holes in 2 inches, and the fifth is generally another 2 or three inches out. If I start shooting this rifle more, I'll probably get a real scope and do a little smithing to install a better mount. I also plan on doing a ghetto-recrown sometime early next year.

proraptor
12-13-2006, 11:11 AM
Guimus - Thats awesome! I think Im going to buy one and make it sportier looking

TMC
12-13-2006, 11:30 AM
I've got two still in the boxes, if you do build up somthing like this definatly post it. I need to do something with them.

I did see a thread on a C&R board some time back a guy took an AK thumbhole stock and grafed it onto an M-44 with a scout scope. I looked pretty cool, I wish I could find the thread.

You might look here http://p102.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm25

Wait, I just read your whole post. I have a synthetic stocked 91/30 with a shortend barrel and a cheap 3-9 armored scope. I'll dig it out later and post a pic. I was shipped someone elses Tapco order for Mosin parts a few years ago, Tapco wouldn't send a call tag for me to return it (when I called they actually wanted me to pay to ship it back!). So I bought a $59.99 91/30 and there you go.

schizrade2
12-13-2006, 11:44 AM
Is your M44 even capable of "sniper-like" shooting to begin with? Typically these shoot "minute of pie plate". Make sure it can handle the job with iron sights before you drop the cash to trick it out. Getting the bayonut lug off isn't easy either. Futhermore you should check out www.7.62x54r.net and view the "rarity" page to see if that "old Russian junk" is actually a valuable collector's piece before you go and destroy it.

Dude, don't remove the bayonet! The thing needs it to shoot straight.

Mine is pretty accurate at 300 yards with match ammo.

enchantor
12-13-2006, 11:50 AM
Futhermore you should check out www.7.62x54r.net and view the "rarity" page to see if that "old Russian junk" is actually a valuable collector's piece before you go and destroy it.

These things are selling at Big 5 for $79.99 (And have been for years). I'm definately not worried about ruining its value.

grammaton76
12-13-2006, 1:25 PM
I've got 3 M44's showing up on my doorstep today, supposedly. :)

Cracked stocks - I'm going to hand-pick the one with the least amount of stock damage, and attempt repairs. The other two will be disposed of to two of my friends, thus satisfying the "only to enhance your collection" bit of the C&R provisions. I end up with a best-of-3 rifle rather than luck of the draw.

Mike 56
12-13-2006, 6:30 PM
Grammation, The best shooting Mosin carbines i ever shot were three cracked stock specials i fixed up for a friend. I think the dirtier and uglier the better they shoot. Mosins just like it rough. My mosin rifles out shoot my carbines. I have a 91/30 with a ATI mount and bolt kit with a 4-12x40 scope. It shoots 1 1/2 groups and once en a while five touching with a bad trigger and hand loads. Mike

NeoWeird
12-13-2006, 7:14 PM
I just picked up an M44 barreled action from someone here. My original intent was to get it back to it's original self...until I found out the stock alone was ~$50 for a used one that's been in storage and most likely damaged. I was still thinking of just spending the money and doing it, until I saw this picture:

http://www.makarov.com/mosmount/M44-03MkII.JPG

Needless to say a couple hours later a new stock, scout mount, and scope were ordered and on their way (I already have a Harris bipod I am not using). It was supposed to arrive today, but nothing yet. It just kind of sucks because it turns out the barreled action is a 1943 Tula in near mint condition (aside from Century's God AWFUL electro-pencil mark). If it had all the right stuff, it could have been a nice collectors piece.

And just because something is cheap now, doesn't mean it will be cheap forever. People used to sporterize k98s and 1903s because they were so cheap and abundant. Yeah, that made sense.:rolleyes:

Fjold
12-13-2006, 7:57 PM
It's like putting the shoppingcart handle wing on a 100 HP ricer.

NeoWeird
12-13-2006, 8:20 PM
It's like putting the shoppingcart handle wing on a 100 HP ricer.

Yeah, but that serves a great purpose. It gives them a handle to push on when they rev too high and crack their heads.

Sydwaiz
12-13-2006, 8:33 PM
Okay, since we are on the subject of M44's... Is it possible to rebarrel these things? I've got two that have sewer pipe bores now due to some corrosive-non corrosive Wolf ammo I got. :mad: These things were unfired when I bought them too. Oh well, good thing I didn't pay much. I got them cheaper than what hand selects are going for now. If I can't rebarrel them or something, I'll probably off them for a good price.

FatKatMatt
12-13-2006, 8:52 PM
This post was heresy. Forgive me firearm gods!

Zwingli
12-13-2006, 9:58 PM
Don't want to start an argument or debate. But, Please don't do that to an antique Finn. Please

jumbopanda
12-13-2006, 10:04 PM
I say its a waste. I did it to my Mosin, and it just wasn't worth it. A $300-400 commercial rifle would be more accurate than milsurps.

Fate
12-13-2006, 10:37 PM
What can you do to a Finnish M91/M28/M39? I was thinking of getting an antique one shipped and screwing with it. I know, I know, sacrilege to destroy a collectable rifle. I was thinking of putting a scope mount, synthetic stock, bipod etc on it.
You will burn in hell. Read some history books about the Winter and Continuation Wars. You will see incredible parallels between the Finnish struggle and our own Revolutionary War. Would you "bubba" a rifle that stood on the green of Lexington?

FatKatMatt
12-13-2006, 10:52 PM
You will burn in hell. Read some history books about the Winter and Continuation Wars. You will see incredible parallels between the Finnish struggle and our own Revolutionary War. Would you "bubba" a rifle that stood on the green of Lexington?

In my defense I will say I was not planning on anything permanent; it would be able to be restored back to original condition easily. Yes, you're right, it's a bad idea. If I want to bubba something I should do something more common and with less, if any, historical significance. If I should really bubba anything at all. Sorry if I pissed anyone off.

Fate
12-13-2006, 10:58 PM
In my defense I will say I was not planning on anything permanent; it would be able to be restored back to original condition easily.
Well then, no flame needed, as long as you promise to not throw away the stock and other parts ;) Get a Darrel's scout mount for the scope. They're the best.

FatKatMatt
12-13-2006, 11:01 PM
Throw away parts? Never! I was thinking of getting a 91/30 length Finnish Mauser and turning it into a (non-permanent) sniper rig, since I've heard that they are phenomenally accurate, especially compared to other Mosin's. You think it's worth it?

M. Sage
12-13-2006, 11:06 PM
Get an M39. The Finn 91/30 is pretty much identical to the Soviet model.

rayra
12-13-2006, 11:33 PM
Well I'm thinking of what my next project should be, and I have an old m44, was thinking of turning it into a modernized sniper rifle of some kind, with new synthetic stock, scope, bipod etc.
I was wondering if anyone else has done this and if so has any pictures of how it looks with the synthetic stock and everything installed.
ThanksBubba-tastic.
Now we see how so many Garands and '03s were so horribly disfugured.

Quit trying to turn lead into gold and just use the proper weapon for a base.

DrjonesUSA
12-13-2006, 11:45 PM
These things are selling at Big 5 for $79.99 (And have been for years). I'm definately not worried about ruining its value.


No, you don't understand.

Big 5 buys large lots of the rifles and sells them all for $80, regardless.

Just because some idiot sells it for $80 doesn't mean that is all it is worth; some of the Mosins are more rare and/or deisreable than others and could possibly be worth far more than $80, both in historical value and real market cash value.

These guns are truly pieces of history and if you're planning on buying one just to turn it into some sort of abortion, I'd really rather you didn't.

Even if it's "only $80."

NeoWeird
12-14-2006, 12:00 AM
Please keep in mind that the Finnish M39 has a thicker barrel than its 91/30 counterpart and won't work with aftermarket stocks. Also, the Finnish M39 is most dead sexy Mosin-nagant around, and with the proper optics and scope mounts (ask to see a picture of Pthfndr's) they are just the type of rifle you want to fondle at the range.

I've also heard that the aftermarket stocks pretty much SUCK in comparison to the originals. The only reason I am opting for one was because I got it cheaper than the wood one. Don't buy a perfectly good rifle to **** it up, go buy a pre-****ed one and mess it up more or make it better. Century has deals where you can get M38/44s for like $20 because they have cracked stocks, damaged sights, etc. and since you are taking that stuff off anyways, it's not loss to you.

I would seriously hate you if you messed up a Finnish M39...

guimus
12-14-2006, 11:50 AM
Sorry to break the golden milsurp rule here, but I say do whatever you want with your rifles. Want to paint that collector-grade garand pink and cut the barrel down to 16", fine with me, as long as you realize that you're drastically decreasing the value of your property. History exists independantly of the artifacts. If someone cares so much about what you're doing to your rifle, they should buy it from you so that their opinion matters.

enchantor
12-14-2006, 12:54 PM
*****

Kestryll
12-14-2006, 1:06 PM
Here's what I did with mine.
$39.99 Mosin M44
$60.00 Scout mount and scope
$10.00 Modified stock off ebay.

Removed the stock, drove out the pins holding the front sight and bayo assembly and removed it, disassembled the rear sight and then installed everything I had bought.
All the old parts are in a bag in the attic.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/414449.jpg

NeoWeird
12-14-2006, 2:58 PM
Yeah, because it wouldn't matter if someone had used our Constitution to roll some cigarettes back in the 1800's, or if we tore down Washington's house to build a mini-mall, or put condos on the battlefield at Gettysberg because history still happened and took place, and that's what is important.

You can do whatever you want with your rifle, all we are trying to do is warn you that there is a HUGE difference between value and worth. Just because you paid $80 for it, doesn't mean that is all that it is worth. People bought cigarettes in the early years of baseball cards and got FREE baseball cards in their packs, so I guess there would be nothing wrong with ripping up those FREE Ty Cobb cards, right? A lot of guys have been down that road before and we are all just trying to warn you that messing with your 'cheap' rifle may seem like a small thing to you now, but the pepople who sold off their out dated corvettes and mustangs to get Pintos were thinking the same thing at the time and now they know from their mistakes.

What you have in your hands is a piece of history. Many of these cheap milsurp rifles have litterally killed men in some of the greatest battles in history. Both of my Garands were boughtf rom the CMP, but at the same time they were manufactured in the early years of our war production and could have easily been on the assault at Normandy. I take a bit of pride knowing one of them could have passed by my grandfather as he was in Europe. Just because you have no connection to them, and just because they are cheap to buy right now does not make them any less valuable.

Like I said earlier, if you want to mess with it then go ahead, it's your rifle. Just keep in mind that 90% of their value comes from their historical purpose, and you bubba one, even if not permanent, and you cut out it's value and you start to ruin it's historical significance as well.

enchantor
12-14-2006, 3:29 PM
****

JPglee1
12-14-2006, 3:48 PM
Like I said earlier, if you want to mess with it then go ahead, it's your rifle. Just keep in mind that 90% of their value comes from their historical purpose, and you bubba one, even if not permanent, and you cut out it's value and you start to ruin it's historical significance as well.


EXACTLY.....


Hack away lil' buddy.... I love to see people take flame and steel to their favorite shootin' iron to make it THEIRS...

VALUE is nothing if the gun won't work FOR YOU.



JP

Mike 56
12-14-2006, 5:58 PM
If you want to sporterize a Nagant the first thing you want to do is see if you have a shooter before you spend a lot of money on parts. It seams like the ones that have not been refurbed and the post war unissued 46 or newer are the most accuarte. In most cases if you want a accurate Nagant you are going to have to reload. Slug your bore to see what size bore you have they can range .308 to .314 with most being .312. Bullets for 303 British work well. Shoot your M44 for while if you are happy with how it shoots Then start building it if not sell it and buy an other one. The first improvement i would do is install a match trigger (80.00) but well worth it. If you are going with a scout mount i would go with a Darrell mount (50.00). I have only used cheap Handgun scopes BSA 2x20, NcStar 2-7x28 and NcStar 4x28 lumanatied. I liked the 4x 28 the best. I do not have any ATI stocks on any of my rifles but i have heard they are not very accurate without the barrel being free floated. Mike

Sydwaiz
12-14-2006, 6:41 PM
If it wasn't issued and especially if it was never used in a war, it has no real historical value IMO. Customize away! I'm still hoping someone will reply to whether or not these can be rebarreled or not for the two that I have. Otherwise I may use em as oars.

guimus
12-14-2006, 6:45 PM
If it wasn't issued and especially if it was never used in a war, it has no real historical value IMO. Customize away! I'm still hoping someone will reply to whether or not these can be rebarreled or not for the two that I have. Otherwise I may use em as oars.

any rifle CAN be rebarreled. The question is cost.

Mike 56
12-14-2006, 7:53 PM
I have heard you can re barrel them but they are hard to do. I have seen 91/30barreled recevers for as low as 6.00. You can cut them down to carbine length. They even make front sight that clamp on. Mike

Fate
12-14-2006, 11:45 PM
If it wasn't issued and especially if it was never used in a war, it has no real historical value IMO. Customize away! I'm still hoping someone will reply to whether or not these can be rebarreled or not for the two that I have. Otherwise I may use em as oars.
There's no such thing as an unissued Soviet Mosin Nagant pre 1946 or so. Refurbed at the arsenal, yes. Unissued, no.

Mike 56
12-15-2006, 6:24 AM
I have a 46 M44 after cleaning it up i cleaned the bore with sweets and their was not a trace of copper in the barrel. I found a copper mine in all my wartime referbs. I think my 46 was unissued. Mike

hylander
12-15-2006, 7:16 AM
EXACTLY.....
Hack away lil' buddy.... I love to see people take flame and steel to their favorite shootin' iron to make it THEIRS...
VALUE is nothing if the gun won't work FOR YOU.
JP

Ditto ;)

My 1939 Tula:
This is how she sits at the moment, next she will get the barrel cut to 25"
and target crown and sight re-installed, stock will also be cut to look original.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/39TulaSniper.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b193/hylander7/Firearms/39Tulafirstshot1sm.jpg

Sydwaiz
12-15-2006, 8:07 AM
There's no such thing as an unissued Soviet Mosin Nagant pre 1946 or so. Refurbed at the arsenal, yes. Unissued, no.

I don't remember him saying it was a Russian M44. If it is Russian, fine, it may have some historical value depending who owns it. Mine aren't, they are Hungarian and Romanian.

Hmm, now I'm thinking I'll find another barrel for mine, cut it to 16", fab a folding stock for it and toss it behind my truck seat. If I can't hit anything with it I'll atleast be able to burn it with the fireball!

Mike 56
12-15-2006, 8:31 AM
Don't cut the barrel leave the bayonet on that way you can still flamebroil hot hotdogs :D Mike