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SixPointEight
06-01-2011, 7:26 PM
I know in most instances people pattern their shotgun and look for a load that patterns under 8-10" at home defense distances. The Federal Flitecontrol loads pattern super tightly, even out of my 18"barrel. But my question is, is there such a thing as too tight of a pattern? The flitecontrol stuff puts all 9 pellets in a couple inches out past 15 yards. On one hand, that seems awesome, on the other hand, it might be nice to have a little bit of spread.

Opinions?

Halfey
06-01-2011, 11:57 PM
I don't think it's to tight. each of the 9 00 pellets are .33" diameter. It's like getting shot with a super high powered .32 acp 9 times at once. I want all the shot to hit where I'm aiming in a tight group not spread 10". If I was shooting clays it would be a different story. + even with a 18" barrel at HD ranges a 10" spread is asking a lot

My $.02

G-forceJunkie
06-02-2011, 12:07 AM
Considering you are responsible for every projectile that leaves the barrel, I think a couple inch spread is awesome. The point of a shot gun is not to spray and hope a few pellets hit the target, the rest, oh well. The point is to deliver a massive amount of fight stopping power in a fast, efficient manner. The more pellets that impact, the better.

I500X
06-02-2011, 8:14 AM
Depends on your living situation. What is the longest shot you can make in your home in a HD scenario? If it's 15 yards, then Flight Control may be the way to go.

AAShooter
06-02-2011, 8:28 AM
The key is that you want a predictable/consistent pattern with out "fliers". There seems to be a push to get tighter and tighter patterns in HD shotguns. Although this provides a concentrated pattern (and perhaps prevents missing your target with some pellets), you start giving up one of the wonderful benefits of a shotgun.

That expanding conical pattern is provides the shooter great benefits in a dynamic situation and lessons the need for precise shooting. As the pattern is more and more concentrated, you basically need rifle marksmanship. At that point, why not a rifle?

Just a thought for your consideration.

BigDogatPlay
06-02-2011, 11:30 AM
The key is that you want a predictable/consistent pattern with out "fliers".

^^^This^^^


That expanding conical pattern is provides the shooter great benefits in a dynamic situation and lessons the need for precise shooting. As the pattern is more and more concentrated, you basically need rifle marksmanship. At that point, why not a rifle?

Just a thought for your consideration.

And a good thought it is. Hence, in part, why more and more LEA are moving away from the shotgun and toward the patrol carbine as a long arm of choice in a majority of situations. But the LEA have to always give tremendous weight to the liability factor. Far more than you might think, and so often to the point of unreasonableness, or so it seems to some on the inside.

That said, a two or three inch pattern of 00B at 30 feet is still going to be delivering a well concentrated and devastating blow to the target it hits. There is something positive to say for that.

mif_slim
06-02-2011, 11:45 AM
For me, tighter the better. ALthough I wouldnt want 9 00 shots to hit the size of a slug because that would be pointless but, you get the point.

*was this inspired by the shotgun dynamic?! lol ;)

Richard Erichsen
06-02-2011, 11:52 AM
I know in most instances people pattern their shotgun and look for a load that patterns under 8-10" at home defense distances. The Federal Flitecontrol loads pattern super tightly, even out of my 18"barrel. But my question is, is there such a thing as too tight of a pattern? The flitecontrol stuff puts all 9 pellets in a couple inches out past 15 yards. On one hand, that seems awesome, on the other hand, it might be nice to have a little bit of spread.

Opinions?

8-10" patterns at home defense distances? You won't get a pattern that open inside a typical house - the spread is going to be less than 2" even with a cylinder bore at a more reasonable 3-5 yard distance.

As for "too tight" a pattern, if the question is home defense distances, they are by definition tight due to the very limited ranges. Your 15 yard assumpion is very likely taking you outside of a typical house and into your backyard or neighbors yard. 15 yards is, in my opinion, no longer an indoor "home defense" range. If you are on a ranch, you might be better served by a rifle than a shotgun - choose the right tool for the job.

If we keep in mind that typical home defense ranges are 3-5 yards (and fairly consistently under 7 yards) you aren't going to have more than a golfball sized pattern. As we all know, you need to aim a shotgun to hit a target and no amount of spread can be counted upon to correct for poor shot placement. At these ranges, the most sage advise I've been given is learn to snap your shots using instinctive styles of shooting without using the sights (which you may not be able to see in the dark anyway).

Most home defense shotguns are cylinder bore because it saves cost and secondly because it really just doesn't matter what kind of choke you have at these short ranges - you won't get any real spread. My longest distance would only provide enough space for an 8 yard shot from the front door to the back door. The spread from a cylinder bore barrel at this distance is less than the size of the bottom of a soda can.

-R

Wideflange
06-02-2011, 11:54 AM
Considering you are responsible for every projectile that leaves the barrel, I think a couple inch spread is awesome. The point of a shot gun is not to spray and hope a few pellets hit the target, the rest, oh well. The point is to deliver a massive amount of fight stopping power in a fast, efficient manner. The more pellets that impact, the better.



^^^this

SixPointEight
06-02-2011, 12:03 PM
Both of my thoughts have been said here. A nice tight pattern is nice because you dont have liability pellets flying all over, however, a few inches of spread may be nice, because then you would have 9 distinct wound channels, causing damage to a greater number of organs etc. Its my thinking that a few inches spread is ideal, otherwise, you might as well shoot a slug.


This actually came up because we got some flitecontrol buckshot at the store haha

Erin
06-02-2011, 12:08 PM
For me, tighter the better. ALthough I wouldnt want 9 00 shots to hit the size of a slug because that would be pointless but, you get the point.

*was this inspired by the shotgun dynamic?! lol ;)

thats what im talkin about

Bigtime1
06-02-2011, 2:08 PM
If its tighter than about .730" you might have a problem.

I recently fired a flight control round through my 18.5" 870 barrel (IC) and at 25 yards it was about an 8" spread. I'd hate to be on the receiving end of that.

BigDogatPlay
06-02-2011, 4:01 PM
a few inches of spread may be nice, because then you would have 9 distinct wound channels, causing damage to a greater number of organs etc.

You're going to get that to a degree anyway, IMO. Those 9 pellets are going to go whatever way they can once inside soft tissue. Path of least resistance and each with their own inertia to guide their path. I'd expect the individual wound channels to diverge from each other by at least a couple inches, perhaps more. It's darned near complete chance what direction they'll take once the projectiles enter tissue.

Reductio
06-02-2011, 4:15 PM
Tight, consistent patterns are exactly why I love the FC wads. The pellets will go their own way and create multiple wound channels once they hit.

MossbergMan
06-02-2011, 7:46 PM
There's a happy medium somewhere here. Although I'm a fan of the Federal Flite-Control buckshot (LE132) I understand the liability issues with stray pellets and for the accomplished SG shooter the tight pattern is an asset. For the average or novice shooter it may very well cause a miss due to the increased need for marksmanship.

As a field EMT for 25 years I saw numerous GSWs. The advantage the SG gives is that multiple projectile impact. On humans, the more "systems" you traumatize the faster the brain will shut down for repairs. Depending on which system is hit the body can compensate quickly and stay in the fight. If multiple systems are affected the body can't keep up and it shuts down fast.

Law enforcement uses the "Tactical" loadings for a couple of reasons. One pellet accountability and next, they have no idea what context they will have to employ the SG in. Indoors, as a homeowner, any quality buckshot will stay on target because at 15 to 20 feet even the worst patterning buckshot will stay about 6". And the expanding pattern is forgiving of marksmanship issues. You can be off some and still deliver a stopping hit. Now consider nobody is going to stand still (like a target) and let you shoot them. They and possibily you will go dynamic. Unless you are well practiced at moving target engagement you run the risk of missing. The tight pattern may very well whiz right by your assailant(s) because you are employing a precision munition against a dynamic target. Kind of like shooting clays or trap with buckshot, it can be done, but it's not reliable. There is NO SG ammunition that will not penetrate interior walls and cause injury to any one on the other side in it's way.

I say plan to dominate, figure your free fire and no fire zones within your own home and shoot within those lanes. There's always the possibility of missing one's target with any firearm, but remember we wouldn't be firing if it wasn't a life or death issue to you or yours. Don't fail to engage because of liabilty worries, that will cause a pause that could possibliy be fatal.

These are just the opinions of mine having been in the business for a few decades take it for the free advice that it is.