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safaridave
06-01-2011, 3:29 PM
I am planning on getting a .22 conversion kit for my BB'd Stag M-4 rifle. I have a question on the legality of the mags-

--Is there any law stopping me from using 11+ round mags legally in this configuration? (Its not centerfire anymore, correct?)

I am sure this has been asked before... but the search function seems to be fighting me for any results.

Thanks all.

stix213
06-01-2011, 3:31 PM
PC 12020 largely prohibits acquiring new 11+ round mags unless you fall under one of the exemptions. That includes .22lr box mags.

There is nothing though in the PC 12276.1 Assault Weapons ban that would prohibit you from using them if you were able to acquire them.

jwkincal
06-01-2011, 3:44 PM
It won't be an Assault Weapon, if that is what you are asking.

There is no deference towards rimfire/centerfire in the magazine law, though (unless it was somehow a tubular magazine)... Stix is right, you can't get them unless you are one special kinda guy.

(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

IrishPirate
06-01-2011, 3:49 PM
you can use them, but only if you have them already. can't go out and buy them (well....technically you could, but no one is allowed to sell them to you...) so you have to have legally aquired them already. also, don't need a BB for rimfire.

on a side note, AR conversions can be pretty finicky from what i hear. it's better to get a dedicated .22lr upper if you want it to function well.

curtisfong
06-01-2011, 4:17 PM
Also, don't use a BB with any >10 rd mag

stix213
06-01-2011, 4:22 PM
Also, don't use a BB with any >10 rd mag

Does not matter when its a rimfire rifle. See PC 12276.1. The Fixed magazine 10 round limit applies only to Centerfire Semi-auto Rifles, and Semi-auto handguns (note not just centerfire for handguns). Fixed magazine semi-auto rimfire rifles, and fixed magazine semi-auto shotguns don't have any 10 round limit.

The big problem again is PC 12020 though, where it is unlikely regular folks can get the mags in the first place (was there a .22lr AR conversion large-capacity mag even sold before 2000?).

slappomatt
06-03-2011, 9:14 AM
Does not matter when its a rimfire rifle. See PC 12276.1. The Fixed magazine 10 round limit applies only to Centerfire Semi-auto Rifles, and Semi-auto handguns (note not just centerfire for handguns). Fixed magazine semi-auto rimfire rifles, and fixed magazine semi-auto shotguns don't have any 10 round limit.

The big problem again is PC 12020 though, where it is unlikely regular folks can get the mags in the first place (was there a .22lr AR conversion large-capacity mag even sold before 2000?).

Is this true? you can use a 20rnd drum on a saiga 12 w a BB if you where able to legally acquire one?

bwiese
06-03-2011, 9:59 AM
Does not matter when its a rimfire rifle. See PC 12276.1. The Fixed magazine 10 round limit applies only to Centerfire Semi-auto Rifles, and Semiauto handguns (note not just centerfire for handguns).

Fixed magazine semi-auto rimfire rifles, and fixed magazine semi-auto shotguns don't have any 10 round limit.

Yup.

The big problem again is PC 12020 though, where it is unlikely regular folks can get the mags in the first place (was there a .22lr AR conversion large-capacity mag even sold before 2000?).

Ciener (Jonathan Arthur Ciener) 22LR conversions for a variety of guns, including ARs, have been around quite some time, including before 2000.
These conversions were designed to use the regular 5.56/223 barrel and not a special 22LR barrel or upper. The kit consisted of a special magazine and special bolt+carrier assembly.

Note that for this architecture if the BulletButton is removed from the lower, that upper better DAMNED WELL HAVE THE 22LR BOLT CARRIER *INSTALLED*.

bwiese
06-03-2011, 10:01 AM
Is this true? you can use a 20rnd drum on a saiga 12 w a BB if you where able to legally acquire one?

Yup - as long as the drum is not considerable a revolving cylinder.

safaridave
06-03-2011, 10:54 AM
Also, don't use a BB with any >10 rd mag

??? Why should I have to remove the BB in order to use >10 rd .22lr mags? Its kind of a pain...

curtisfong
06-03-2011, 11:09 AM
??? Why should I have to remove the BB in order to use >10 rd .22lr mags? Its kind of a pain...

There is a kink in the AW laws regarding the use of > 10rd mags with BBs (regardless of evil features).

However, it does NOT apply to rimfire rifles, only centerfire rifles (I was wrong to bring it up in the .22lr context, and didn't realize this)

stix213
06-03-2011, 11:15 AM
Yup - as long as the drum is not considerable a revolving cylinder.

http://www.nazarian.no/images/wep/479_protecta.jpg

For the benefit of illustration, here ^^^^^ is an example of a banned revolving cylinder shotgun. Note the similarities to a revolver handgun. Saiga-12 drum mags should not qualify.

vincewarde
06-03-2011, 11:44 AM
Just FYI I have a bolt carrier conversion and it has been at least as reliable as my 10-22. For a variety of reasons it should not be accurate - yet it still shoots into an inch at 50 yards. Black dog mags are the best way to go.