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View Full Version : Gilboa: New Israeli Rifle


Uriah02
06-01-2011, 2:27 PM
http://defense-update.com/wp/20101018_gilboa.html

And another new rifle that happens to be GP. Fixing a problem that doesn't exist?:D
Being that they use a regular lower receiver, could this possibly work as a AR pistol?

PEBKAC
06-01-2011, 3:17 PM
I must admit that APR pistol is interesting looking in that it seems to lack a buffer tube.

tgriffin
06-01-2011, 3:34 PM
yay another piston driven AR that markets itself as reinventing the wheel :sleeping:

adamsreeftank
06-01-2011, 3:48 PM
It looks like they have an AR that uses AK style mags.
http://defense-update.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/silver_shadow_gilboa.jpg

MrPlink
06-01-2011, 3:50 PM
this thing kinda looks like the RRA pistol
http://defense-update.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/gilboa_apr.jpg

tiger222
06-01-2011, 6:16 PM
you mean the Tavor is a POS after all? :)
sure looked cool 12 years ago....

Lagduf
06-01-2011, 6:35 PM
I wish the RRA Upper by itself was available for sale or this new one.

pyro3k2
06-01-2011, 8:03 PM
this thing kinda looks like the RRA pistol
http://defense-update.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/gilboa_apr.jpg

NO IT DOESN'T YOUR JUST A GILBOA HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.downrange.tv/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/rra-pds-pistol2.jpg

762.DEFENSE
06-01-2011, 9:18 PM
:Ivan:

762.DEFENSE
06-01-2011, 9:19 PM
this thing kinda looks like the RRA pistol


That's exactly what came to mind when I saw it. :)

Plywood
06-01-2011, 10:16 PM
It looks like they have an AR that uses AK style mags.
http://defense-update.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/silver_shadow_gilboa.jpg

What buttstocks are those on the bottom two?

UNDFTD
06-01-2011, 10:32 PM
Taking a few step backs from Tavor.

WHY

MrPlink
06-01-2011, 10:51 PM
Taking a few step backs from Tavor.

WHY

they cant get an american company to build it.
foreign aid...

MrPlink
06-01-2011, 10:52 PM
What buttstocks are those on the bottom two?

ok, WAIT A SEC HERE!

Those are RRA butt stocks too, what gives here?

Merc1138
06-01-2011, 10:58 PM
yay another piston driven AR that markets itself as reinventing the wheel :sleeping:

That's exactly what I was thinking. I opened this thread expecting to see something new, and instead it's a piston AR, something we've seen dozens of times already.

It'd be like if a tuning company added their own supercharger to a mustang, nova, chevelle, camaro, etc. That doesn't make it a brand new car.

pyro3k2
06-01-2011, 11:20 PM
ok, WAIT A SEC HERE!

Those are RRA butt stocks too, what gives here?

Maybe a new contract no one has heard about yet :shrug:

Ian
06-02-2011, 3:08 AM
"it is fitted with a heavy match 18″ barrel for better harmonics and has a 7:1 twist rate to permit using heavier projectiles."

seven to one twist rate?? insanely fast bullet spin lol!

jumbopanda
06-02-2011, 4:47 AM
The APR measures 51 centimeters in length, fitted with a 7" barrel as standard, but for special uses it can be configured with a 4.5" barrel.

A 4.5" barrel for .223? That's easily one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I'm pretty sure the bullet would leave the muzzle at around 2000fps or less, while letting out the biggest muzzle flash ever seen.

PEBKAC
06-02-2011, 8:30 AM
A 4.5" barrel for .223? That's easily one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I'm pretty sure the bullet would leave the muzzle at around 2000fps or less, while letting out the biggest muzzle flash ever seen.
On the other hand that would be the most awesome cigarette lighter ever.

bombadillo
06-02-2011, 8:51 AM
"It is fitted with a heavy match 18″ barrel for better harmonics and has a 7:1 twist rate to permit using heavier projectiles."


Wow, they must have those puppy seeking bullets if they're running a 7:1 twist on this thing. Maybe even lib seekers.

dieselpower
06-02-2011, 9:24 AM
as a pistol its novel, as an SMG its a good step removing the DI

Originally Posted by jumbopanda
A 4.5" barrel for .223? That's easily one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I'm pretty sure the bullet would leave the muzzle at around 2000fps or less, while letting out the biggest muzzle flash ever seen.

but 850fps from a 45 is better? Id load that thing up with 80gr TAP and I know it would make some terrorist happy, cuz he would be meeting those 72 virgins real dam quick.

as a pistol this thing is a cool toy, (looks like Han Solo's blaster to me, AR pistols always do to me), as a SMG with a select fire FCG, it would rival any other one out there.

17+1
06-02-2011, 9:34 AM
http://defense-update.com/wp/20101018_gilboa.html

And another new rifle that happens to be GP. Fixing a problem that doesn't exist?:D
Being that they use a regular lower receiver, could this possibly work as a AR pistol?

I use my DI AR's for target and comp...doesn't foul very badly with reloads in the intervals between cleaning.

I gladly trade more regular cleaning intervals for increased accuracy. If the rifles were going to see combat, maybe it would be different, but they're not, and I don't pretend they will.

jumbopanda
06-02-2011, 5:43 PM
as a pistol its novel, as an SMG its a good step removing the DI



but 850fps from a 45 is better? Id load that thing up with 80gr TAP and I know it would make some terrorist happy, cuz he would be meeting those 72 virgins real dam quick.

as a pistol this thing is a cool toy, (looks like Han Solo's blaster to me, AR pistols always do to me), as a SMG with a select fire FCG, it would rival any other one out there.

Explain to me what the benefit of having a 4.5" barrel is over a 7" or 10.5". The gun is already so short that you're not gaining anything from making it shorter. And the muzzle flash/noise would be insane.

Toast
06-02-2011, 6:46 PM
Explain to me what the benefit of having a 4.5" barrel is over a 7" or 10.5". The gun is already so short that you're not gaining anything from making it shorter. And the muzzle flash/noise would be insane.

With a 7" barrel I'd rather use a 9mm/40/45 or 7.62x39... I don't get the logic of a 5.56 barrel that short either. There is no way there's gonna be any fragmentation with any ammo and the blast is gonna be horrendous.

tron18
06-02-2011, 8:33 PM
http://defense-update.com/wp/20101018_gilboa.html

And another new rifle that happens to be GP. Fixing a problem that doesn't exist?:D
Being that they use a regular lower receiver, could this possibly work as a AR pistol?

Meh. I thought it was going to be a new cool looking weapon.

GunSafari
07-03-2011, 7:53 PM
the tavor is an amazingly well balanced rifle, most units there are being issued them and the micro tavor is starting to get into the hands of more regular combat units now instead of just the captains' and special forces.

I had the pleasure of playing with one the last time i was there, i posted a picture on here but cant seem to find the thread anymore...

Josh3239
07-03-2011, 9:12 PM
http://defense-update.com/wp/20101018_gilboa.html

And another new rifle that happens to be GP. Fixing a problem that doesn't exist?:D

1st The DI does utilize a gas piston. What it doesn't utilize is an operating rod.

2nd The gas piston/op rod rifles have been around since before the DI and after. This is hardly a sign of superiority. Remember how the Israelis used the "unreliable" DI in combat for decades, longer than and replacing the Uzi, Galil, and AK. That type of argument makes as much sense as saying the 1911 sucks because many nations have replaced it with Beretta, HK, Glock or another model.

3rd Unlike silly conversions this rifle is made around and built for the operating system chosen. That isn't fixing a problem that doesn't exist, it is answering a question of what operating system to use. Ripping out a DI and shoving in a piston into AR15 is fixing a problem that doesn't exist.

Bryansix
07-04-2011, 9:40 AM
I'm fairly certain that most people didn't read the article based on the posts. Some read the typo on the last sentence but that is it. This article is from 2010 and nowhere do they mention Tavor.

However, on a completely different subject, I am still waiting for my civilian version of the Tavor (aka Tar-21) to be imported into the United States. If it is and we don't get it in Califronia, I might just have to move just so I can own one. :)

mlevans66
07-04-2011, 9:58 AM
yay another piston driven AR that markets itself as reinventing the wheel :sleeping:

Yay! Another piston driven AR hater dissing on piston driven ARs again! Yay! :rolleyes:

Don't like it don't comment, sheesh. Anyway looks interesting.

OHW
07-04-2011, 10:26 AM
A licensing deal with RRA was made so IDF can produce the weapon in country with a few tweaks . No outside sales stipulation.

As per rumor mill at IDForums.

dieselpower
07-04-2011, 1:22 PM
A licensing deal with RRA was made so IDF can produce the weapon in country with a few tweaks . No outside sales stipulation.

As per rumor mill at IDForums.

I want to hear that from Mako before I bought into that. sending him a PM.

Merc1138
07-04-2011, 1:27 PM
Yay! Another piston driven AR hater dissing on piston driven ARs again! Yay! :rolleyes:

Don't like it don't comment, sheesh. Anyway looks interesting.

He never said he hated piston driven AR's. However being the 50th company to add a piston to an AR does not make it a "new rifle".

MakoDefense
07-05-2011, 1:13 AM
I want to hear that from Mako before I bought into that. sending him a PM.

I will look into the RRA thing, I don't know. I can comment about a this system in a couple areas.

I think the main reason for this system over the DI system is for the very short barrels. Israel has been very happy with the DI system in the standard rifle and carbine length weapons. In fact, they don't clean them as much as US soldiers tend to, and have no issues with reliability.

The Tavor is a good, solid weapon, but many troops, even special forces troops, still prefer the DI M4.

There is a need in Israel for very compact weapons. Unlike the US, there are a lot of missions going on in Israel, and sometimes into surrounding countries, that require concealable firepower. (This is the purpose for our KPOS (http://www.themakogroup.com/product_p/kpos17.htm) and other Glock accessories (http://www.themakogroup.com/category_s/71.htm), as well as for the Micro Uzi. These systems shoot pistol calibers - a 5.56, even from a very short barrel, has superior terminal ballistics.)

The system I like is the ICE-15 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MD9-7nYXP1w
Still a DI weapon, but a really good design. It really shoots nice - I was very impressed.

patriot_man
07-05-2011, 1:18 AM
Not really digging that raised 12 o clock rail...

MakoDefense
07-05-2011, 1:33 AM
It is kind of cool that they used our MP5 rail system, and you can see just the top of our pistol grip. In the other photo, of course, are some of our other products, including one of our buttstocks and some handguards/rail systems.