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View Full Version : I want to keep my "assault rifle" in California. What do?


roachliveinla
05-30-2011, 4:16 PM
'm an active duty military member currently stationed in Korea. My last base was Moody AFB, GA where I legally purchased and registered an M4 Rifle. I then got orders here, and it was placed in storage with the rest of my belongings. My next base is Vandenburg AFB, CA, and I'm to understand there is an "Assault Weapons Ban". My belongings are to ship automatically when I leave Korea, and I'm sure there will be some hiccups since the weapon is technically illegal (pistol grip, magazine well button, retractable stock). Is there anyway I could register the weapon or get a permit to have it? I've been looking for answers online all day and nothing seems to be clear as to how I can keep it (I'm no lawyer.) I don't want to have to modify it, its perfect the way it is and I just got it the way I wanted it before I had to leave.

It's a semi-auto and the brand... i really don't know. It's made in China. Here's a pic:

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1136360264128.17650.1681003244#!/photo.php?fbid=1435254496297&set=a.1136360264128.17650.1681003244&type=1&theater

This law seems pretty senseless... What difference does brand make opposed to firearm type? I don't get it. Would it be an issue to have the "offending" items removed upon receiving them in California?

I just need to know all my options before I make the trip in a few months... Swapping out the pistol grip... fine. New magazine button... whatever.... But its doing crap like shaving off my bayonet lug and swapping the flash suppressor is when Ive had enough, I'll just have it shipped elsewhere.

mag360
05-30-2011, 4:24 PM
you don't have to change anything except you must put 10rd magazines in it and a bullet button if you want to keep the flash hider. bayonet lugs are not regulated.

Merc1138
05-30-2011, 4:27 PM
CA doesn't care about bayonet lugs like mag360 already pointed out. I suggest you look up at the top of the forum, and under AW&OLL Guides, follow the flowchart, it's very clear.

As far as trying to make sense of the CA laws, don't bother, they make no sense.

DannyInSoCal
05-30-2011, 4:30 PM
Or simply buy a Hammerhead from Exile and install a muzzle brake...

loose_electron
05-30-2011, 4:31 PM
CA doesn't care about bayonet lugs like mag360 already pointed out. I suggest you look up at the top of the forum, and under AW&OLL Guides, follow the flowchart, it's very clear.

As far as trying to make sense of the CA laws, don't bother, they make no sense.

Look at the flow chart as described above.

wash
05-30-2011, 4:39 PM
Cops can get permission to purchase an "assault weapon" (not an assault rifle) from their chief of police or something. There may be a similar procedure for military personell but I'm not sure.

If there is not an option like that for you, then you have to look at jurisdictional issues for where your rifle is going to enter the state.

You might be able to use the marksmanship competition exemption to get the rifle in, then make it CA compliant at a match but I'm not sure if or how that would work.

I would ask your commanding officer who you need to talk to. They should know exactly what can and should be done.

Since most of us here are not active duty military being moved in to CA with "assault weapons" without a choice, we've never had to deal with that situation.

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 4:50 PM
I cant quite make out the rollmark, but that looks like a Bushmaster.

If it is a Bushmaster, it is banned by name and a bullet button or Exile grip won;t make it legal.

And guys, pay attention, he's got a telescoping buttstock and probably a flash hider, JUST the Exile grip won't make him legal.


Anyways, there IS a procedure for you to get a military temporary registration that will cover your personal M4 as long as you are stationed within California. The registration is revoked upon your shipping out of CA or the termination of your service.

It is similar to the way cops can do it, but it's only good for the term of your current orders.

diginit
05-30-2011, 5:43 PM
I don't think Bushy's are made in china... I noticed the selector is stamped 3 position, But with only 2 pins. An uninformed LE would freak out... I believe there is an excemption for active duty servicepersons stationed in Ca. If and when inactive, Dros another lower and transfer the upper and other parts to it. Changing out the lower and adding a BB is your best bet. The lower is what would be listed on the ca roster. I'm not an expert. Just tring to help...Stand by... You will get an answer here.

Just a hint... Get an A.R.M.S. silouette folding front sight and drop the scope closer to the barrel...

roachliveinla
05-30-2011, 6:11 PM
Ive got a folding front sight but never got the chance to install it.... The picture you see was taken for insurance purposes, I just threw the scope on it to claim it as part of the firearm.

Which reminds me, I have the information written on my insurance forms:

DT1-15 M4 CARBINE SEMI AUTO RIFLE SN# B-11985

I hope this helps. The flow chart was helpful and all, however, much of it left confused. Is the pistol grip legal? or the stock? I wanted to swap it for a fixed stock anyway, would that be legal?

I know I seem to be rambling on about stuff I could look up myself but as I said I'm living in Korea, and my resources are nary. The best I can do is go from here to Georgia, take it out of storage and simply drive to my home state of Delaware (hopfully it's legal there). I don't want sell it... It was my gift to me from me for my time in Iraq.

EDIT:

It's a Del-Ton. Never heard of it before... Legal? (Please say yes.)

Pavel
05-30-2011, 6:26 PM
Remember, as part of the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, CA laws does not have to apply to you if the appropriate paperwork is filed and your California Special Weapon Permit is obtained. The intent of the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act is that, while the serviceman may live in a restricted state like CA as their assigned duty station, but under federal law he/she still resides in their home state which may have less restrictions.

The bottom line is that you could bring your gun with you in it's current non AW ban configuration. This only works if you are not originally a CA resident but rather stationed here, and you of coarse cannot transfer your AW to a lowly citizen of the People's Republic of Kalifornia.

Here is the info:

California Special Weapon Permit Information
(916) 263-8100

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 6:26 PM
Ahh!

DTI is good to go.

Okay, is it legal?

There are four ways that a gun can be classified as an assault weapon.

#1 - Being listed. Delton is legal. It is called an "off-list" lower.

#2 - semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with an overall length of less than 30".
As long as your barrel is at least 16" (counting the flash hider), you'll be good to go with a standard AR buffer tube.
IF your barrel is 14.5", the flash hider must be enough to bring it to 16" and it must be pinned and welded (that's federal NFA).

Assuming you pass #1 and #2, the next one is where we have some fun.

#3 - SB23 "Evil Features"

Those features are:
Flash Hider
Telescoping/Folding Buttstock
Pistol Grip
Forward Pistol Grip
Grenade/Flare Launcher

Okay, Grenade launcher falls under DD and is a whole nother can of worms, so let's just say "Flare Launcher"

This portion of SB23 only applies to semiautomatic centerfire rifles with a detachable magazine.
That is where we have a "fix".

The "Bullet Button"

This replaces your standard magazine release, and forces you to use a bullet tip, screwdriver, or allen key to depress the mag release. The design recesses the mag release below a ledge that does not move.

With the bullet button, you can have any and all of the above "Evil Features"

#4 - Fixed magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds.
If you have a bullet button, you can not ever insert a 20 or 30rd magazine into the receiver while it is in California.



So yes, you can keep your AR, but I would recommend that you purchase and install a bullet button before you ship out if you have time. The bullet button costs about $25, takes 5 minutes to install.

Here's my 14.5" barrel 5.56. The magazine was drilled and pinned to limit it's capacity to 10 rounds.

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/XD9/ar145-3.jpg

Pred@tor
05-30-2011, 6:34 PM
Is that a Trijicon ACOG ECOS? I have one on my Ar15...

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 6:37 PM
Is that a Trijicon ACOG ECOS? I have one on my Ar15...
F-ACOG ;)

I couldn't justify $1200 for an optic for a range plinker.

Pred@tor
05-30-2011, 6:39 PM
F-ACOG ;)

I couldn't justify $1200 for an optic for a range plinker.

I know everyone can't believe I did it lol...

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 7:08 PM
I know everyone can't believe I did it lol...
If I were still working the job that I had from '96 to '09, I'd have one.

roachliveinla
05-30-2011, 7:16 PM
Bullet Button and that's it? I'm loving it.

Thank you so much, this a weight off my shoulders. all i can think about is taking it to the range when i get back to the US. Maybe Ill run into one of you guys someday!

BTW love the paintjob, whats your technique? Any chance you'd be willing to do another?

Yankee Clipper
05-30-2011, 7:40 PM
Bullet Button and that's it? I'm loving it.

Thank you so much, this a weight off my shoulders. all i can think about is taking it to the range when i get back to the US. Maybe Ill run into one of you guys someday!

Go by post #10 while you're on active duty. If you get out & want to stay in CA go by post #5.
Semper Fi

bruss01
05-31-2011, 10:50 AM
I didn't see anyone remind him that his 10+ cap mags have to be disassembled prior to bringing them into the state and that using the parts to build a functional 10+ magazine while they are in CA is a crime. Consequently, he will need some 10 round magazines for use while here or will have to have the hi-caps modified to 10 round capacity.

Or.... does the fact that a third party, in this case the US mil, is performing the import relieve the owner of responsibility for importing hi-cap mags into the state?

Decoligny
05-31-2011, 11:13 AM
Ahh!

DTI is good to go.

Okay, is it legal?

There are four ways that a gun can be classified as an assault weapon.

#1 - Being listed. Delton is legal. It is called an "off-list" lower.

#2 - semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with an overall length of less than 30".
As long as your barrel is at least 16" (counting the flash hider), you'll be good to go with a standard AR buffer tube.
IF your barrel is 14.5", the flash hider must be enough to bring it to 16" and it must be pinned and welded (that's federal NFA).

Assuming you pass #1 and #2, the next one is where we have some fun.

#3 - SB23 "Evil Features"

Those features are:
Flash Hider
Telescoping/Folding Buttstock
Pistol Grip
Forward Pistol Grip
Grenade/Flare Launcher

Okay, Grenade launcher falls under DD and is a whole nother can of worms, so let's just say "Flare Launcher"

This portion of SB23 only applies to semiautomatic centerfire rifles with a detachable magazine.
That is where we have a "fix".

The "Bullet Button"

This replaces your standard magazine release, and forces you to use a bullet tip, screwdriver, or allen key to depress the mag release. The design recesses the mag release below a ledge that does not move.

With the bullet button, you can have any and all of the above "Evil Features"

#4 - Fixed magazine with a capacity greater than 10 rounds.
If you have a bullet button, you can not ever insert a 20 or 30rd magazine into the receiver while it is in California.



So yes, you can keep your AR, but I would recommend that you purchase and install a bullet button before you ship out if you have time. The bullet button costs about $25, takes 5 minutes to install.

Here's my 14.5" barrel 5.56. The magazine was drilled and pinned to limit it's capacity to 10 rounds.

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/XD9/ar145-3.jpg

The OP is currently stationed in Korea.

His AR is currently stored with his household goods in a warehouse somewhere in the US.

When he leaves Korea to come to CA, the Military will automatically ship his stored goods to CA where they will be delivered to him.

This presents the problem of the system creating a felon if his AR is fully assembled.

I suggest that the OP think very carefully back to when he stored his AR.

To ensure that everything fit neatly into the box, a person with foresight would have "probably" dissassembled his AR into its component parts.

(Stomps foot for emphasis)

Since there is no constructive possession law in CA, with the lower removed, it is not a centerfire semi-automatic rifle and would then be legal to possess in CA. He could legally install a Bullet Button onto his stand alone lower before assembling the weapon into a centerfire semi-automatic rifle.

If this were indeed the case, then the OP would NOT be an inadverant felon the moment he recieved his household goods.

Remember your 5th Amendment Right to NOT SELF INCRIMINATE.

jwkincal
05-31-2011, 5:07 PM
Other folks have mentioned it. That should be the way to go. Then you don't have to worry about whether it is in parts when it lands at your next duty station.

Contact your new CO and/or the JAG in Vandy. Make sure that the HMFICs know what is coming on that truck. Somebody up there knows what form needs to be filled out and when.

roachliveinla
05-31-2011, 7:13 PM
The rifle is personally owned and therefore most likely not eligible to be waived via Active Duty Mil Permit. I would have to get my base commander, someone I don't even know, to sign a document stating the rifle is a necessity, which it is not. I suppose I can contact my sponsor and ask them to see if it would still be a possibility.

My only option is to fly to GA in route and retrieve the rifle prior to shipment, which isn't much of hassle, there's somethings in their I'd like to get anyway, and the military will help pay.

I had the rifle stored in one piece since the insurance forms I filled out for all my personal items included a "Firearms" section that I had to fill out, and the packing people had to place the weapon, as a whole, into a case and placed stickers on it to hinder tampering. I guess it's part of their policy, but I suppose it's my fault for thinking far enough ahead. It's my first firearm... lesson learned I suppose. I didn't realize much of America had such strict guns laws... compared to the south, atleast.

wash
05-31-2011, 7:23 PM
Try any way, he might be pissed off enough about CA gun laws that he'll sign.

jwkincal
05-31-2011, 7:39 PM
I know there is (or was, perhaps it has been killed) a specific exception for your exact circumstance. I am presently unable to find it, however (so it may have been killed).