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jdberger
05-30-2011, 1:50 PM
After a brief hiatus, it appears that the Antis are on a new media offensive.

In the Wichita Eagle, an article entitled, "Kansas on list for 'Craziest Gun Laws' (http://www.kansas.com/2011/05/30/1870778/kansas-on-list-for-craziest-gun.html)". Of course, the content gives lie to the headline.


A national gun control group has singled out Kansas for its "Craziest Gun Laws" award, citing a law the group says allows guns in schools.

State and local officials, however, say a bill signed by Gov. Sam Brownback last month clarified but did not change Kansas law, which prevents concealed-carry permit holders from taking guns into any building that posts no-gun signs on its doors.

"If those (signs) are posted, individuals cannot carry (firearms) into those buildings," said Chuck Sexson, director of the concealed-carry program for the Kansas Attorney General's Office.

"Most schools around the state have posted their buildings. ... So that hasn't changed."


SF Gate (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/05/28/MN6U1JM5GF.DTL) and the Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/topstory/7586144.html)both published stories repeating the canard that the expiration of the 2004 Assault Weapons Ban and straw purchasers are responsible for arming Mexico's drug cartels. Strangely, both neglected to mention "Project Gunrunner" (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/08/eveningnews/main20040803.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentAux) in which ATF participated in the smuggling of thousands of assault rifles to Mexican Drug Cartels.

These follow a Brady Campaign fundraising email requesting exhorting people to "Tell ATF to Fight Assault Rifle Smuggling to Mexico!" (http://www.bradynetwork.org/site/MessageViewer/?em_id=44241.0&dlv_id=50341&pgwrap=n).

LCAV has pushed their second story (http://thegardenisland.com/news/local/state-and-regional/article_47a8cd50-89cc-11e0-a7b0-001cc4c03286.html)claiming that Hawai'i's gun control laws are too lax because they don't require owners to report lost guns.

And Ohio Ceasefire (a wholly owned subsidiary of LCAV) and the Brady Campaign are pushing the idea that Ohio's gun laws are easily circumvented (http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2011/05/30/ohio-gun-sale-laws-easily-circumvented.html?sid=101)because straw purchasers can break the law and illegally buy guns for prohibited persons.

It's up to us to oppose the Antis at every turn. Contact the authors of these articles and show them how the Antis are misleading them. Write letters to the editor opposing the lies of the antis. Post in the comments section of the online article.

Believe it or not, we're actually winning the information war. People aren't buying the lies of the Brady Campaign, LCAV or the CSGV anymore. Let's keep them on the defensive.

Window_Seat
05-30-2011, 1:53 PM
I thought it was Utah with the craziest gun laws. Now I have to start looking for a house in Kansas... :p

Erik.

Wernher von Browning
05-30-2011, 2:30 PM
I thought it was Utah with the craziest gun laws. Now I have to start looking for a house in Kansas... :p

Erik.


Well, there's a problem with that.

Every tornado season, the houses move.

OW! WHAT??? WHAT DID I SAY???

yakmon
05-30-2011, 2:43 PM
utah has great gun laws, it's the 3.2 beer that kills the deal.

pitchbaby
05-30-2011, 2:52 PM
utah has great gun laws, it's the 3.2 beer that kills the deal.

No, it's the snow that kills the deal.

GWbiker
05-30-2011, 2:56 PM
Arizona has some fine gun laws, which pi$$e$ off the Brady Bunch clowns.....:)

randian
05-30-2011, 3:01 PM
I wonder if the Brady Campaign knows that in their anti-gun heaven of CA, CCW holders can carry on K-12 campuses, just like CCW holders can in Utah.

scarville
05-30-2011, 3:35 PM
I wonder if the Brady Campaign knows that in their anti-gun heaven of CA, CCW holders can carry on K-12 campuses, just like CCW holders can in Utah.
The Bradys might support may issue like we have in CA. At least they give CA full points for not being "shall issue".

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/CA/

Pred@tor
05-30-2011, 4:12 PM
Well, there's a problem with that.

Every tornado season, the houses move.

OW! WHAT??? WHAT DID I SAY???

Its true... :(

randian
05-30-2011, 4:21 PM
The Bradys might support may issue like we have in CA.
The Brady's would prefer no-issue, though their scorecard only mentions may-issue.

Their scorecard doesn't seem to care about where you can carry so long as it's not a college campus. You don't lose Brady points if you allow CC on K-12, government buildings, or courthouses.

It occurs to me that removing the "resident of the county in which you apply" restriction would go a long way to making CA a functionally (if not legally) shall-issue jurisdiction.

Cokebottle
05-30-2011, 4:26 PM
Arizona has some fine gun laws, which pi$$e$ off the Brady Bunch clowns.....:)
Ya, but they still have vehicle emission testing, and some localities test motorcycles.

uyoga
05-30-2011, 4:42 PM
One good thing is that they are referred to as a "gun control group", which is a label they have very carefully been trying to avoid.

They are what they are!

vantec08
05-30-2011, 4:57 PM
Brady has worn out "do it fer the chirrens" and "do it fer the sardine." I wonder whats next. DO IT FER THE _____________ (fill in the blank).

Helpful_Cub
05-30-2011, 5:07 PM
I'm actually wondering what kind of material they publish to try and win people over. From what I've found so far it's along the lines of your either with us or your for killing children.

RRangel
05-30-2011, 6:19 PM
I'm actually wondering what kind of material they publish to try and win people over. From what I've found so far it's along the lines of your either with us or your for killing children.

Being that they have little membership they don't care about facts. The propaganda is something for their like minded rich drone friends, a complicit media, and political allies that write the laws. They're an active misinformation spigot for the purpose pushing an agenda. Like a false narrative playbook.

Dreaded Claymore
05-30-2011, 8:35 PM
I'm actually wondering what kind of material they publish to try and win people over. From what I've found so far it's along the lines of your either with us or your for killing children.

This seems to be the main message of their website. Maybe they don't actually have a strategy to try to get more people to like them, and their only trick is to just shout their message and hope that a few people like it.

It would explain why they're doing so badly. Can you imagine how few rights (with respect to weapons) we'd have if our only move was to begin and end every argument with a frantic yell of "What part of shall not be infringed don't you understand?!" Nah, that wouldn't work very well. People won't believe you're right, even if you are, unless you explain it in terms they can relate to.

randian
05-31-2011, 12:03 AM
Ya, but they still have vehicle emission testing, and some localities test motorcycles.
True, and the annual vehicle license tax is obnoxiously expensive. Rural areas don't have emissions testing though, it's just in the two big areas (Phoenix and Tucson) that they require testing. Arizona's tax system could use an overhaul too (34th on the Tax Foundation's list of best tax climates).

Funtimes
05-31-2011, 1:26 AM
Hah! Just realized I am in that article that LCAV cited from Civilbeat lol.

DarthSean
05-31-2011, 1:51 AM
If the antis have switched to spreading their efforts thin and are picking at various state and local laws, does this mean we won the latest round of federal gun control debates?

2Bear
05-31-2011, 2:07 AM
Arizona's tax system could use an overhaul too (38th on the Tax Foundation's list of best tax climates).

Florida's looking better and better...

http://jan.ocregister.com/files/2010/10/tax-foundation-map.gif

five.five-six
05-31-2011, 2:11 AM
The Brady's would prefer no-issue, though their scorecard only mentions may-issue.

Their scorecard doesn't seem to care about where you can carry so long as it's not a college campus. You don't lose Brady points if you allow CC on K-12, government buildings, or courthouses.

It occurs to me that removing the "resident of the county in which you apply" restriction would go a long way to making CA a functionally (if not legally) shall-issue jurisdiction.

you actually read and understand their stupid score card? Sun Tzu aside, how many IQ points do you have to forfeit in order to understand them?

five.five-six
05-31-2011, 2:19 AM
Arizona has some fine gun laws, which pi$$e$ off the Brady Bunch clowns.....:)

Brady's love AZ, they can just forget all about statistics and tout Gabrielle Giffords

2Bear
05-31-2011, 3:06 AM
GOOGLE: The Brady Campaign (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=the+brady+campaign&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)

They're getting a lot of mileage with this angle...

"Meanwhile, Arizona, Alaska, and Utah do not have a single common sense gun law on their books, according to the Brady Campaign" Florida_Wins_Craziest_Gun_Laws_Award_by_Brady_Camp aign (http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/Florida_Wins_Craziest_Gun_Laws_Award_by_Brady_Camp aign_121248324.html?ref=324)

But this article also comes up with that same Brady search:
Gun Ownership Up, Violent Crime Down; No Coincidence
Opinion by NRA
Adding to the bad news for gun control supporters, the District of Columbia and Chicago—the handgun bans of which were repealed following the Supreme Court’s decisions in the Heller and McDonald cases in 2008 and 2010—experienced decreases in murder of eight percent and six percent, respectively.
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/gun-ownership-up-violent-crime-down-no-coincidence


Nice.

randian
05-31-2011, 4:36 AM
you actually read and understand their stupid score card? Sun Tzu aside, how many IQ points do you have to forfeit in order to understand them?
I can't remember :confused:

ccmc
05-31-2011, 4:46 AM
Florida's looking better and better...

http://jan.ocregister.com/files/2010/10/tax-foundation-map.gif

From a life long Floridian, Florida's a great place to live - as long as you can deal with heat, humidity, mosquitos, no see-ums, lightening, hurricanes, wildfires in the spring, summer monsoons (did I mention heat and humidity?) close to 50 million tourists a year (with the traffic woes that come with them) and you don't mind that the highest point in the state is like 400 feet (and that's practically in Alabama).

OTOH we have great beaches with lots of eye candy, great seafood, great gun laws (except no OC unless you're hunting/fishing/camping), very nice winters. Actually the summers aren't so bad, but you're gonna crave AC.

Just promise if you come here you'll never say "This is how we did it up north" :)

randian
05-31-2011, 5:07 AM
Florida's looking better and better...
I'd be happy to discuss Florida vs Arizona taxes via PM or a thread in the off topic area.

As for guns, Florida's rules are significantly more restrictive. You must have a license to carry concealed, no open carry, a lot more places are can't-carry, and some of the police chiefs are anti-gun and have been known to hassle gun owners (Tampa's comes to mind). Signs have no force of law though, unlike Arizona. The St Pete Times regularly runs anti-gun editorials. The southeast counties have no long-range shooting areas and are prone to enforce preempted local laws because there's no penalty in Florida's preemption statute. Dealers and ranges are more difficult to find, too, owing to local pushback against them. Florida doesn't have knife preemption as does Arizona, but its knife rules are fairly liberal and its carry permits apply to all deadly weapons (like knives), not just guns. Watch out for the occasional goofy local knife law. Fort Lauderdale forbids knives at parades and public assemblies, for example.

Gray Peterson
05-31-2011, 6:16 AM
Florida's looking better and better...
I'd be happy to discuss Florida vs Arizona taxes via PM or a thread in the off topic area.

As for guns, Florida's rules are significantly more restrictive. You must have a license to carry concealed, no open carry, a lot more places are can't-carry, and some of the police chiefs are anti-gun and have been known to hassle gun owners (Tampa's comes to mind). Signs have no force of law though, unlike Arizona. The St Pete Times regularly runs anti-gun editorials. The southeast counties have no long-range shooting areas and are prone to enforce preempted local laws because there's no penalty in Florida's preemption statute. Dealers and ranges are more difficult to find, too, owing to local pushback against them. Florida doesn't have knife preemption as does Arizona, but its knife rules are fairly liberal and its carry permits apply to all deadly weapons (like knives), not just guns. Watch out for the occasional goofy local knife law. Fort Lauderdale forbids knives at parades and public assemblies, for example.

Preemption strengthening bill was passed to put in penalties.

Gray

cineski
05-31-2011, 6:30 AM
Kansas contains a lot of crazy.

I thought it was Utah with the craziest gun laws. Now I have to start looking for a house in Kansas... :p

Erik.

randian
05-31-2011, 6:42 AM
Preemption strengthening bill was passed to put in penalties.
Good to know. We'll see if it has any real effect.

dawgcasa
05-31-2011, 7:19 AM
It's funny that the Anti-gunners talk about common sense, but they fail to accept one basic common sense fundamental: that criminals are professional predators by trade, and they select their prey on a risk/opportunity basis. There is significant data available that shows an armed populace (I.e., those states without 'common sense' gun restrictions) results in significantly lower violent crime as criminals alter their behavior to reduce their risk of being faced with the use of armed and deadly force by their targeted prey. What the antis refuse to admit is that no amount of gun laws will stop the nut case with a death wish or prevent criminals access to guns. Career Criminals and those with delusions of committing suicide amidst a hail of bullets will always find a way to access guns illegally and no amount of 'common sense' laws, even those that enact total bans, will ever stop this. But true common sense is that broad based gun ownership and ability to bear for immediate use in self defense by 'common' law abiding citizens dramatically alters the risk/opportunity assessment of common criminals. They will tend towards crimes where there is less chance of personal confrontation with victims that have a higher probability of being armed, I.e., burglary, petty theft, auto-theft, etc. Criminals may have chosen their 'profession' poorly, but the average criminal does have a keen sense of self preservation and that factors into their prey assessment.

The other misconception by the antis is that only law enforcement has the right to 'protect' the common citizen thru use of deadly force ... Which is far from the truth. Despite the 'common sense' that our LEOs can't possibly be posted on each and every street corner, in most cases there are written laws and policies stating just the opposite so LEOs can't be sued for failure to provide protection to citizens. The fact is even in states with highly restrictive gun laws that the individual citizen is responsible for their own protection as a matter of state policy.

Anti gunners refuse to admit two hard facts: that no gun law regardless of how restrictive will prevent criminals from getting guns (see Mexico for that exercise in reality); and, that gun possession among the law abiding populace saves lives. The anti crowd would save many more lives (if they were actually honestly interested in that outcome) if they got laws passed that universally mandated speed governors on all auto engines physically limiting their top speeds to 45 mph. Wait, that'd probably be too unpopular with their political base :-).

2Bear
05-31-2011, 5:32 PM
Astroturf Is For The Weak
I find it fascinating that their side claims that they have the “silent majority” and the “the majority group of Americans fully support good, reasonable gun legislation“ and yet their following is so weak in Ohio that they have to enlist scab labor. Or maybe the problem is they are silent? I don’t know.

Remember that when Ohio voted on CCW in 2004 that Governor Taft received communications that were fourteen to one in favor of it. It will be interesting to hear the stats on this vote. http://www.angelsfeartotread.com/2011/05/astroturf-is-for-the-weak/

Heh.

From a life long Floridian, Florida's a great place to live

Mom's been in Tampa c. 20 years. Enjoy it, except for the humidity...

As for guns, Florida's rules are significantly more restrictive.

Thanks for the insights. If I don't get a real job soon, I'm on the move...

Kansas contains a lot of crazy.

Heh.

It's funny that the Anti-gunners talk about common sense, but they fail to accept one basic common sense fundamental: that criminals are professional predators by trade, and they select their prey on a risk/opportunity basis...

Very cogent post.

2Bear
05-31-2011, 5:41 PM
On astroturfing via reviews for Hennigan's book:

http://daysofourtrailers.blogspot.com/2011/05/more-book-review-astroturf.html

Cokebottle
05-31-2011, 6:13 PM
We need only one true "Common Sense Gun Law", and that is:

"We the people shall have no gun laws, because we, through using common sense, understand that no number of laws will prevent a criminal from participating in the illegal actions that he intends to participate in. The criminal is by definition a law breaker, and thus, we the people understand that the criminal will intentionally and willfully break any gun laws that we might create."

2Bear
05-31-2011, 6:22 PM
"We the people shall have no gun laws, <...>

So I can have a Minigun™?

http://thefatalelites.webs.com/minigun.jpg

(FWIW, I think so, what if I'm planning on sailing around the horn?)

Cokebottle
05-31-2011, 6:47 PM
So I can have a Minigun™?

http://thefatalelites.webs.com/minigun.jpg

(FWIW, I think so, what if I'm planning on sailing around the horn?)
When I buy my own island and declare it a nation, yes, you will be able to have one... if you can figure out how to export it from the US ;)

unusedusername
05-31-2011, 7:06 PM
One good thing is that they are referred to as a "gun control group", which is a label they have very carefully been trying to avoid.

They are what they are!

We are winning the fight even in their own news reports. :D

GWbiker
05-31-2011, 8:54 PM
True, and the annual vehicle license tax is obnoxiously expensive. Rural areas don't have emissions testing though, it's just in the two big areas (Phoenix and Tucson) that they require testing. Arizona's tax system could use an overhaul too (34th on the Tax Foundation's list of best tax climates).

Pima county (Tucson) dumped motorcycle Emissions testing a few years ago. Phoenix is trying the same for bikes.

Arizona Motor vehicle registration tax is a joke. First year on the Honda Gold Wing - $414. In Pennsylvania, all I ever paid for annual motorcycle tag was $18.

Now, back to our regular program.

Window_Seat
05-31-2011, 10:52 PM
From a life long Floridian, Florida's a great place to live - as long as you can deal with heat, humidity, mosquitos, no see-ums, lightening, hurricanes, wildfires in the spring, summer monsoons (did I mention heat and humidity?) close to 50 million tourists a year (with the traffic woes that come with them) and you don't mind that the highest point in the state is like 400 feet (and that's practically in Alabama).

OTOH we have great beaches with lots of eye candy, great seafood, great gun laws (except no OC unless you're hunting/fishing/camping), very nice winters. Actually the summers aren't so bad, but you're gonna crave AC.

Just promise if you come here you'll never say "This is how we did it up north" :)

And don't forget about the bad drivers either (yeah, I know, not all of them are bad, BUT...) You think they are bad here in CA???

Otherwise, I love the state, the weather, the "scenery"... oops... :hide:

And BTW, :eek:GHOST POST FROM THE PAST:eek::

We've all seen this lovely billboard that the Brady Campaign posted in Florida.

http://moraca.org/graphics/nfl_humor.jpg

Along with it, came this beautiful ad:

http://www.iansa.org/regions/namerica/images/shoot-first-law.gif

Apparently, the dire warnings of the Brady brain trust over didn't exactly come to fruition. (http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20101116/COLUMNIST/11161040/2055/NEWS?p=1&tc=pg&tc=ar)

When Florida's so-called "stand-your-ground law" took effect in 2005, a well-known anti-gun organization started issuing scary warnings to tourists.

The Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence advised Florida's visitors to avoid arguments with the locals, lest they be gunned down by a populace now free to pull the trigger whenever anyone made them feel nervous.

...

There was no spike in murders disguised as self-defense that year, but statistics since then can be debated. Some measures do show a significant increase in shootings labeled self-defense. And yet, I have not heard of one that struck me as a case where a shooter would and should have been sent to prison under the old law, but had charges dismissed or never filed thanks to the new one.

<snip>

Much like the Antis warnings of shootouts over parking spaces, violent gunfights in movie theatres and general "Dodge City" mayhem, Florida's crime rate continues to fall, just like the crime rate of the other 39 States who have legislated Shall Issue Concealed Carry. 1.6 million Floridians with CCW permits - crime rates fall.

You'd think, with all that money, that Paul Helmke would be able to buy a clue.


Erik.

Kid Stanislaus
06-01-2011, 1:39 AM
It occurs to me that removing the "resident of the county in which you apply" restriction would go a long way to making CA a functionally (if not legally) shall-issue jurisdiction.

Can you imagine the absolute DELUGE of applications from LA and SF Bay area that'd hit the rural counties with decent issue standards!

Kid Stanislaus
06-01-2011, 1:57 AM
So I can have a Minigun™?

http://thefatalelites.webs.com/minigun.jpg

(FWIW, I think so, what if I'm planning on sailing around the horn?)

Ya know, I've got a neighbor who refuses to clean up the mess on his lawn and I think that item might very well be the cure I'm look'n for!:eek:

ccmc
06-01-2011, 4:45 AM
I'd be happy to discuss Florida vs Arizona taxes via PM or a thread in the off topic area.

As for guns, Florida's rules are significantly more restrictive. You must have a license to carry concealed, no open carry, a lot more places are can't-carry, and some of the police chiefs are anti-gun and have been known to hassle gun owners (Tampa's comes to mind). Signs have no force of law though, unlike Arizona. The St Pete Times regularly runs anti-gun editorials. The southeast counties have no long-range shooting areas and are prone to enforce preempted local laws because there's no penalty in Florida's preemption statute. Dealers and ranges are more difficult to find, too, owing to local pushback against them. Florida doesn't have knife preemption as does Arizona, but its knife rules are fairly liberal and its carry permits apply to all deadly weapons (like knives), not just guns. Watch out for the occasional goofy local knife law. Fort Lauderdale forbids knives at parades and public assemblies, for example.

No state income tax in FL. Don't know what the total tax burdon is when comparing AZ/FL. Maybe pretty similar?

Funny you mention LEOs. The Pima County Sheriff seemed pretty anti citizen gun owner after the Tucson shooting. The only FL LEO who has been publicly anti gun owner was Coates (Tampa-St Pete area) when the OC bill was being debated in the state legislature. The tourism/retail lobbyists who are against OC won that battle, but I wouldn't really call FL's gun laws restrictive even though AZ's are less so.

Librarian
06-01-2011, 10:30 AM
Ya know, I've got a neighbor who refuses to clean up the mess on his lawn and I think that item might very well be the cure I'm look'n for!:eek:

You plan to bury the junk on the front lawn under a mound of spent brass?

randian
06-01-2011, 10:59 AM
No state income tax in FL. Don't know what the total tax burdon is when comparing AZ/FL. Maybe pretty similar?
The tax foundation's numbers give a slight edge to Arizona, at 8.7% of median income vs 9.2% for Florida. Property taxes as a percentage of the value of a median-priced home are about 50% greater in Florida, while sales taxes are nearly 50% greater in Arizona (~6.5% vs ~9.5%), and Arizona's counties (but not the state) tax food and residential rents. Whether the burden of government would be less in Florida vs Arizona is a fact-intensive exercise that depends greatly in your individual circumstance.

Funny you mention LEOs. The Pima County Sheriff seemed pretty anti citizen gun owner after the Tucson shooting. The only FL LEO who has been publicly anti gun owner was Coates (Tampa-St Pete area) when the OC bill was being debated in the state legislature. The tourism/retail lobbyists who are against OC won that battle, but I wouldn't really call FL's gun laws restrictive even though AZ's are less so.
Some of the areas Florida forbids carry are on the odd side and can catch you unawares if you aren't thoroughly familiar with them: school administration buildings (not just the campus itself), professional athletic events, and "vocational-technical centers". Florida includes the bar area of a restaurant in its definition of "bar" (which you can't carry in).

2Bear
06-01-2011, 11:23 AM
Ya know, I've got a neighbor who refuses to clean up the mess on his lawn and I think that item might very well be the cure I'm look'n for!:eek:

Mini-gun VS Car, (but did they have to use an RX-7 'vert?!!! That's what I drive!)...

YVjn7aj9pxI

jdberger
06-01-2011, 12:01 PM
Not to derail this thread too much.... :rolleyes: but I received a reply to my email that I sent the author of the article.

My Email:
Dan,

Don't you think it takes a willful suspension of disbelief to think that drug trafficking organizations who successfully smuggle billions of dollars in drugs using methods as sophisticated as submarines built in jungles, have to purchase semi-automatic rifles in the US when there are tons of full auto rifles available from the Central American civil wars of the 80s & 90s?

In fact, thatis exactly where they're coming from. The LA Times, Washington Post and Wall Street Journal have already extensively reported on this subject and have rejected the Violence Policy Center's flawed narrative.

I'm happy to provide you with links if you'd like

Best regards

jdberger
San Francisco

His Reply:

Did a separate Calif-specific version for SF Chronicle. Main version of the story can be found in Houston Chronicle, www.chron.com.


Thanks for your critique of my story.
We may disagree but I think it's valuable to hear what you have to say, so thanks for taking the time to read and respond to the story.

A few points I'd make:

Fast and Furious. Yes, I was well aware of the allegations from whistleblowers about ATF permitting straw-purchased weapons to filter into Mexico in order to pinpoint key players in the cartels. With very severe space restrictions, I elected not to mention it because I wanted to tell a ``new'' story rather than rehash something that's been adequately reported elsewhere. (So what was ``new'' in my story, you may be asking? It focused on 1,600 guns that U.S. court documents verified as purchased in U.S. gun stores, breaking them down by manufacturer and/or importer. Few, if any, other stories have focused on this angle.) The main point here is that even if all the allegations of ATF negligence are true, they don't undercut the basis of my story _ 1,600 guns purchased in the United States that ``were either shipped to Mexico or intercepted en route.'' The whistleblower allegation is that ATF was monitoring weapons purchases by known straw purchasers and did nothing to prevent the guns from getting to Mexico. These guns clearly were purchased by the traffickers' designated hitters with the intent of shipping them to the cartels. The possibility that ATF could have prevented the actual deliveries does not change that. The investigative techniques surrounding these deliveries are under investigation and we'll see where it goes. I'll certainly pay attention to this in terms of future reporting.

Central America and ``90 percent.'' My story focused on 1,600 verifiable guns coming from U.S. sources, not the totality of weapons seized in Mexico. For context, I mentioned the many statements given by ATF officials before Congress, presumably under oath, that 90 percent of guns submitted by Mexican authorities for tracing via the ATF-operated tracing center were from the U.S. I also said: ``Gun rights advocates doubt the accuracy of that claim.'' Everyone knows that lawlessness in Mexico is a long-standing problem, dating back to Pancho Villa and before. Obviously there are thousands, if not millions, of weapons and munitions of every description floating around in Mexico. What is new is the influx of military-style weaponry, which changes the equation in Mexico and puts the cartels on equal (if not superior) footing with law enforcement. Whether Mexico has the technical capacity to sort out the variety and sources of all guns, to say nothing of interest, is open to speculation. Even if they did, it might not be possible, given the vagaries of scratched-off serial numbers and the incompleteness (or
non-existence) of records in the U.S. and elsewhere. It was not possible for me to take on the broad spectrum of weaponry in Mexico in this story. And the fact is, nobody (not you, not me, and probably not the
Mexicans) really knows the full breakdown of where these weapons come from.

Hope this gives you at least a few insights into this story.


Dan Freedman


Nice of him to respond...

2Bear
06-01-2011, 12:39 PM
http://mooker.com/backend/uploads/1/police-siren-animated.gif

Oh boy, oy vey...

Obama Working on Gun Control "Under the Radar?"

Opinion by National Shooting Sports Foundation

The Washington Post has reported that President Obama recently discussed his administration’s intentions concerning gun control with Jim and Sarah Brady, founders of the anti-gun group the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

According to the story, Sarah Brady said the president volunteered: “I just want you to know that we are working on it (gun control). We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/obama-working-on-gun-control-under-the-radar

http://mooker.com/backend/uploads/1/police-siren-animated.gif

dantodd
06-01-2011, 1:43 PM
as long as you can deal with heat, humidity, mosquitos, no see-ums, lightening, hurricanes, wildfires in the spring, summer monsoons (did I mention heat and humidity?)

I could deal with some lightening.

2Bear
06-01-2011, 3:07 PM
http://fixgunchecks.s3.amazonaws.com/191/92/c/475/screen_shot_2011-03-26_at_12.17.35_pm.png

The Fix Gun Checks Truck in Los Angeles.

WYB5A1TyKMM

LCAV's Julie Leftwich, the Legal Director for LCAV, spoke to Omar about California's current gun laws and the need for better federal gun laws. Even though California has strong gun laws that help to drive down gun crime, crime guns are imported from states with looser gun laws.

http://www.fixgunchecks.org/blog-list/category/California

Omar joined supporters in Los Angeles to deliver petitions signed by more than 40,000 Californians to Senator Barbara Boxer. Senator Boxer is a strong ally on gun crime issues and one of California’s leading voices in Congress.

http://www.fixgunchecks.org/background-checks

jdberger
06-01-2011, 3:10 PM
You realize, that at about 1'30 in that video, she admits that strong gun laws don't impact crime rates....

2Bear
06-01-2011, 3:14 PM
You realize, that at about 1'30 in that video, she admits that strong gun laws don't impact crime rates....

What's more, she should look into a hair-conditioning product. :eek:

Smokeybehr
06-01-2011, 3:53 PM
So I can have a Minigun™?

http://thefatalelites.webs.com/minigun.jpg

(FWIW, I think so, what if I'm planning on sailing around the horn?)

Arizona is the home of Dillon Aero, who makes the new and improved M134A. They greatly improved the delinker mechanism, so it works a whole lot better.

What's more, she should look into a hair-conditioning product. :eek:

You can tell the Liberal whackjobs due to their straw-like hair and abundance of wrinkles in their overly-dry skin. They refuse to buy into the notion that women are supposed to look like women.

jeff762
06-01-2011, 6:17 PM
Can you imagine the absolute DELUGE of applications from LA and SF Bay area that'd hit the rural counties with decent issue standards!

don't forget san diego county too.

2Bear
06-01-2011, 6:28 PM
Can you imagine the absolute DELUGE of applications from LA and SF Bay area that'd hit the rural counties with decent issue standards!

Nice income opportunity...

Come to Remote County, CA
for our
Ten-Day Spa & Weapons Training Retreat.
Leave with guns, a tan, and a CCW.
(Program starts in two weeks.)

Untamed1972
06-01-2011, 6:42 PM
Well, there's a problem with that.

Every tornado season, the houses move.

OW! WHAT??? WHAT DID I SAY???


And that must result in alot of lost guns during tornado season. I guess they have an optional excuse to the "tradgic boating accident" huh?

ccmc
06-02-2011, 4:58 AM
I could deal with some lightening.

You got me there :)

I'm usually pretty good about spelling.

ccmc
06-02-2011, 5:15 AM
The tax foundation's numbers give a slight edge to Arizona, at 8.7% of median income vs 9.2% for Florida. Property taxes as a percentage of the value of a median-priced home are about 50% greater in Florida, while sales taxes are nearly 50% greater in Arizona (~6.5% vs ~9.5%), and Arizona's counties (but not the state) tax food and residential rents. Whether the burden of government would be less in Florida vs Arizona is a fact-intensive exercise that depends greatly in your individual circumstance.

Some of the areas Florida forbids carry are on the odd side and can catch you unawares if you aren't thoroughly familiar with them: school administration buildings (not just the campus itself), professional athletic events, and "vocational-technical centers". Florida includes the bar area of a restaurant in its definition of "bar" (which you can't carry in).

Actually sales tax in FL is 6 pct. Some counties do add an additional 0.5 pct for local projects which I found out about when I was in Sarasota earlier this year. Property tax is to a large part dependent upon when you bought your primary residence since we have Save Our Homes which limits increases in assessed value to 3 pct annually. Of course this has been a moot point since 2007.

You're right about the areas where carry is illegal. Some of them are odd, including the weirdest of all - a house of "ill repute" which is generally understood to mean a crack house, illegal betting parlor, brothel, etc.

ccmc
06-03-2011, 6:48 AM
Heh.



Mom's been in Tampa c. 20 years. Enjoy it, except for the humidity...





It's not for the faint of heart :)