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oaklander
05-29-2011, 11:03 AM
I probably spent too much time in college (and law school) studying semiotics, critical theory and Jungian thought.

HENCE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickster

I don't think it's an accident that the grassroots "gun" civil rights movement in California is modeled on the Jungian "trickster" archetype.

I don't think it's intentional (it CAN'T be, since what we are doing IS grassroots) - but this was right in line with my theory:

Following in this tradition, critics since Gates have come to assert that another popular African American folk trickster, Brer Rabbit, uses clever language to perform the same kind of rebellious societal deconstruction as the Signifying Monkey. Brer Rabbit is the “creative way that the slave community responded to the oppressor’s failure to address them as human beings created in the image of God.”[9] The figurative representative of this slave community, Brer Rabbit is the hero with a “fragile body but a deceptively strong mind” that allows him to “create [his] own symbols in defiance of the perverted logic of the oppressor.”[10] By twisting language to create these symbols, Brer Rabbit not only was the “personification of the ethic of self-preservation” for the slave community, but also “an alternative response to their oppressor’s false doctrine of anthropology.”[11] Through his language of trickery, Brer Rabbit outwits his oppressors, deconstructing, in small ways, the hierarchy of subjugation to which his weak body forces him to physically conform.

There's some other things in there relating to gender as well. . .

I REALLY need to step away from the computer once in a while!!!!

:D

oaklander
05-29-2011, 11:25 AM
:gene:

stangman86gt
05-29-2011, 11:37 AM
yeah what he said =P

manuelcardenas77
05-29-2011, 11:55 AM
Pretty cool!

Paul S
05-29-2011, 12:11 PM
Oak:

Please step away from the computer. Keep your hands where I can see them. :D

I mean no disrespect as your level of formal education far surpasses mine but may I suggest you over-think the issue.

Analysis is important to many endeavors...but sometimes we end up drowning in it.

Just a thought friend.

Paul

hoffmang
05-29-2011, 1:32 PM
And Oak goes and throws us into the brier patch....

-Gene

oaklander
05-29-2011, 1:47 PM
The reactions are what I predicted!!!!

:D

http://www.luvzbluez.com/images/brerrabbit.jpg

oaklander
05-29-2011, 1:48 PM
LOL - we aren't comfortable anywhere else!!!

That's why the DOJ, etc. have such a hard time with us. . .

Their world does not include brier patches. . .

And Oak goes and throws us into the brier patch....

-Gene

oaklander
05-29-2011, 1:53 PM
Possible!!!

I like thinking about stuff (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6493704&postcount=63) like this - it helps me make sense of the world around me. When something can be matched to an existing pattern, then it can be predicted better.

One thing I am *really* good at (and it only took me 49 years to get good at it) - is predicting what a person will do in a given situation. . .

That's basically what lawyers do, if you think about it. Generally, it involves predicting opposing parties, opposing counsel, and judges.

Everything is part of a pattern (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6493704&postcount=63). And you can't stop the signal (http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle-pics/Wikileaks_cantstopsignal.png). . .

Oak:

Please step away from the computer. Keep your hands where I can see them. :D

I mean no disrespect as your level of formal education far surpasses mine but may I suggest you over-think the issue.

Analysis is important to many endeavors...but sometimes we end up drowning in it.

Just a thought friend.

Paul

Yankee Clipper
05-29-2011, 2:48 PM
Now I remember my favorite time of day when my mother read me Uncle Remus from the afternoon paper. Sometimes it was funney, often as a child it perplexed me but in our discusions afterward I learned, as T. S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, and Uncle Remus already knew the tricksters use of cleverly manipulated language can dismantle a restrictive hierarchy. And you’re right, it’s yet another tool in our grass roots endevore.

oni.dori
05-29-2011, 2:51 PM
Interesting analogy, and I would have to agree with you oak. It may sound rediculous (or even may be offensive to some to consider comparing us to the slaves struggle for freedom and equality) to some, but that really is pretty much where we are. It really is no different. We are struggling and fighting for a fundamenal right, just like they were, just a completely different one.

sreiter
05-29-2011, 2:55 PM
Possible!!!

I like thinking about stuff (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6493704&postcount=63) like this - it helps me make sense of the world around me. When something can be matched to an existing pattern, then it can be predicted better.

One thing I am *really* good at (and it only took me 49 years to get good at it) - is predicting what a person will do in a given situation. . .

That's basically what lawyers do, if you think about it. Generally, it involves predicting opposing parties, opposing counsel, and judges.

Everything is part of a pattern (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=6493704&postcount=63). And you can't stop the signal (http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle-pics/Wikileaks_cantstopsignal.png). . .
i thought what [trial] lawyers did was never ask a question they didnt already know the answer too, and only ask the "right" questions.

i relate it to jiu jitsu (or chess). there are only so many place your opponent can move. you block them from moving anywhere but the one place you want them to go, and you're already there, waiting to spring the trap

Scott Connors
05-29-2011, 5:07 PM
I actually have read extensively in this area, so I follow what you're saying. After all, it's only to be expected that Calguns models itself after trickster figures such as Bugs Bunny, considering what we are constantly battling against:

OiEUDzIrEQE

HowardW56
05-29-2011, 5:10 PM
And Oak goes and throws us into the brier patch....

-Gene

Perfect spot... Relax, wait a while, and choose your opening when you want to leave...

HowardW56
05-29-2011, 5:13 PM
5-23-11 The day the Sleeping Giant awoke.

HUH??? :confused:

The Shadow
05-29-2011, 5:49 PM
The trick is to find your laughing place.

AjFd3ekLXVI&playnext=1&list=PL3F856A395E8DCE10

wash
05-29-2011, 5:54 PM
The Braer Rabbit analogy goes a little over my head, someone would have to explain it to me.

I blame the fact that it's probably been twenty years since I saw Song of the South.

I looked for a YouTube clip a few months ago and the best I could find was a pretty sorry version, either the result of too many generations from the source or the print is looking really bad.

I liked that movie, I wish someone would restore it.

The Shadow
05-29-2011, 6:23 PM
The Braer Rabbit analogy goes a little over my head, someone would have to explain it to me.

I blame the fact that it's probably been twenty years since I saw Song of the South.

I looked for a YouTube clip a few months ago and the best I could find was a pretty sorry version, either the result of too many generations from the source or the print is looking really bad.

I liked that movie, I wish someone would restore it.

The movie is available on the internet, and there is a campaign to petition Disney to release it. But, as politically correct as Disney is, there are organizations like the NAACP that call it racist, and so it sits in Disney's vault with no time even considered for releasing it in the U.S. market on DVD.

What I did was download all 10 episodes from You Tube, and I occasionally play them for my grandkids, when they ask.

Dreaded Claymore
05-29-2011, 6:42 PM
I hated English class, because I was always the only one in the room who couldn't understand why [insert any character here] represented Jesus. But I think Oaklander's right.

Heh heh heh.

HowardW56
05-29-2011, 8:03 PM
The movie is available on the internet, and there is a campaign to petition Disney to release it. But, as politically correct as Disney is, there are organizations like the NAACP that call it racist, and so it sits in Disney's vault with no time even considered for releasing it in the U.S. market on DVD.

What I did was download all 10 episodes from You Tube, and I occasionally play them for my grandkids, when they ask.

It's available in PAL format from european sources...

wash
05-29-2011, 8:13 PM
I want Blueray.

oaklander
05-29-2011, 8:35 PM
My favorite cartoon, as a kid - was Bugs Bunny!!!!

I liked his 'tude. . .

Now I remember my favorite time of day when my mother read me Uncle Remus from the afternoon paper. Sometimes it was funney, often as a child it perplexed me but in our discusions afterward I learned, as T. S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, and Uncle Remus already knew the tricksters use of cleverly manipulated language can dismantle a restrictive hierarchy. And you’re right, it’s yet another tool in our grass roots endevore.

oni.dori
05-29-2011, 10:11 PM
HUH??? :confused:

You must have missed the announcement (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=436300&highlight=calguns+files+suit+agains+assault+weapon s+ban).

oaklander
05-30-2011, 8:05 AM
Works for me!!!

The other nice thing about being seen that the Trickster is that now - even things that don't make sense, do make sense. . .

The opposition has no way to deal with an unpredictable opponent. . .

I think that the folks who don't see how well we are doing in CA are incapable of understanding how sophisticated we really are. It's like when you go to a party, and just common-sense will tell you that there's at least one person in the room smarter than the rest. Now picture an entire state, and all of the smart people are on our side, doing things legally, politically, and via PR/media.

Where is out opposition in this scenario?

They are taking salary. The folks on our side (even the paid ones in other parts of the coalition) are SUPER motivated and happy to do this kind of work. Our opposition are people who oppose us out of obligation to their employers. There is ZERO grass roots opposition to us. There appears to be (think LCAV luncheon), but they are really not opposition - since they actually don't do any "thing" - other than show up at luncheons.

Our victory is:

1) Happening now, in real time.

2) Inevitable

3) Proven (think about the several hundred thousand NEW EBRs that are now in the state - because of people like Gene and Bill).

You must have missed the announcement (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=436300&highlight=calguns+files+suit+agains+assault+weapon s+ban).

The Shadow
05-30-2011, 8:07 AM
It's available in PAL format from european sources...

I've seen in NTSC format also.

oaklander
05-30-2011, 8:20 AM
Yes - that's true - in court and in "depo." But lawyers (and lawyer-like people) also work outside of court. They plan strategy. . .

I can tell you this in all honesty: I'm fairly smart - BUT the stuff that the "coalition" does is WAY ABOVE my feeble thinking processes. I don't even think that the opposition realizes how good they/we actually are.

You have to be like a super strategy NINJA to "see" the big picture on this kind of stuff. Me, I'm more of a tactics person - so I tend to notice the tactics/results "pairings" more than the strategy.

Here's another way to phrase it:

If you guys think that *I* am smart (and my wife will tell you that it's debatable). . . then you all must realize that I feel like a total dumbazz compared to the real leaders!!!! When I used to go to CGF Board Meetings, I always enjoyed the part afterwards when we would go and get a steak dinner (we paid for it with our own personal money, BTW - not CGF money). Well, anyways - those dinners were awesome - and what made them even more awesome was hearing Gene and Bill and Brett and Brandon and the others talk. I usually understood about the first two paragraphs, then I would just nod and smile.

The point is that those guys are scary smart. They like me because I look good in chaps, and I stay out of their way. And I guess my other role is to help bring people together in the movement. So I throw parties and stuff, and reach out to groups that we need to work with, etc. . .

My entire role in a lot of things is just to know who knows who, and stuff like that. Maybe kind of like a protocol droid or something.

But, the litigation strategy is something that I don't actually get involved in - and I know it's strange because I *am* a lawyer. But I guess the point is that lawyers don't always do law - and sometimes my role is maybe more of just a grassroots person in the purest sense. I like to know what's happening on the "street."

That's actually how I found out about the USFS/BLM issue, for example - and brought it to CGF attention.

Sorry for the long message - but I just thought it would be helpful if people had a clearer understanding of how everything fits together. Normally, I would not reveal this much information in a public post - but the reality is that our opposition is essentially toothless, and there's nothing useful that they can do with this intel anyways. . .

The "WINNING" meme that I started a couple of months ago is true and verifiable. . .

:D

i thought what [trial] lawyers did was never ask a question they didnt already know the answer too, and only ask the "right" questions.

i relate it to jiu jitsu (or chess). there are only so many place your opponent can move. you block them from moving anywhere but the one place you want them to go, and you're already there, waiting to spring the trap

oni.dori
05-30-2011, 11:14 PM
...Maybe kind of like a protocol droid or something...

Better be careful, your secret inner nerd is showing lol. You are absolutely right though, we are winning; and in a BIG way. The things we (and by "we", I meam mostly you guys) are doing here go so deep, that you really couldn't comprehend it unless you were directly involved in it. The only people that "nay-say" about it are just incapable of seeing the BIG picture and seeing between the lines to realize just how much is really happening, and how far ahead we have strategized. The best part about it though is that we ALL benefit from it in the end.

TRICKSTER
05-30-2011, 11:32 PM
I probably spent too much time in college (and law school) studying semiotics, critical theory and Jungian thought.

HENCE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickster

I don't think it's an accident that the grassroots "gun" civil rights movement in California is modeled on the Jungian "trickster" archetype.

I don't think it's intentional (it CAN'T be, since what we are doing IS grassroots) - but this was right in line with my theory:



There's some other things in there relating to gender as well. . .

I REALLY need to step away from the computer once in a while!!!!

:D

Shh. :hide:

tboyer
05-31-2011, 12:42 AM
I probably spent too much time in college (and law school) studying semiotics, critical theory and Jungian thought.

HENCE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickster

I don't think it's an accident that the grassroots "gun" civil rights movement in California is modeled on the Jungian "trickster" archetype.

I don't think it's intentional (it CAN'T be, since what we are doing IS grassroots) - but this was right in line with my theory:



There's some other things in there relating to gender as well. . .

I REALLY need to step away from the computer once in a while!!!!

:D

As long as there is a place for "Pinkie" ;)

Wrangler John
05-31-2011, 4:19 AM
One night my wife came home from work late and told me of her dilemma, she needed a birthday cake for a manager the next day. She couldn't be late for work, so what to do? I said I'd go down to the 24 hr. Safeway store the next morning at five-o'clock and see what the bake shop could do. Bakers always start before dawn, it would be okay. Her employer was a major commercial insurance company, they wouldn't even let you in the door unless your company had more than a 100 million evaluation - about as buttoned-down a corporate culture as Boston could produce, she had to have that cake to take with her.

Well, I arrived at the store, but the selection was scant, most of the offerings were too small. My eye fell on a whole sheet cake, exquisitely decorated with an entire scene from Walt Disney's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Had all the little plastic characters, a full miniature village with creek, bridge, trees, castle, cottages, the works. I had them pipe on "Happy Birthday" and the manager's name.

Needless to say my wife was dismayed, but I told her it would be okay. That cake was the subject of outrage, laughter, and endless analysis of it's meaning. The men in the office grew a bit mirthful and seemed to enjoy the whimsy, the birthday manager loved it and took all the plastic characters and half the cake home for his wife and little daughters, but the matrons were completely a-dither. Was it an insult? Was it a comment on working for a living? Who represented the evil stepmother? Were the managers being called dwarfs? Who was going to waylay Snow White?

I told my wife that sometimes a cake is simply a cake. It had only the meaning each projected upon it according to their personality. So it is with Jung, sometimes a theory is just another silly idea that appears to be something more. Then it may be that the universe, the sum of existence, has an innate psychology. More, it may have an identity, so that the entire universe and everyone in it shares the same identity and a personal subset of the available psychological archetypes. Why else is it so difficult for us to think outside the box? Why else would our internal self-reference be, not our surname and given name, but the appellation "I am?" I am hungry, I am cold, I wish this or that; we all are known to ourselves as "I." Only Bob Dole says, "Bob Dole is hungry." :)

Don't even worry about deconstruction, because the world seems to be an exploration of every possible point of view and opinion possible regardless of factual content. Arbitrary signifiers? Nah, it's our nature to be contrary. I'll drink to that. :cheers2:

PS: Somebody please tell me what the hell I'm talking about.