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View Full Version : carrying handle necessary? (possible repeat thread)


NYY
05-28-2011, 9:15 PM
i thought i saw a thread about this on here somewhere.. i looked but cant find it! post URL if you know of it. Anyways, choosing between a BUIS or one which is also a carrying handle. Will i ever even need to use the handle....? Thanks

chead
05-28-2011, 9:19 PM
Do you plan on carrying it via a handle?

rattlesnake_nm
05-28-2011, 9:20 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=427495&highlight=carry+handle

bob7122
05-28-2011, 9:21 PM
carrying handle helps on long treks and when you cant hold it with both hands imo

Cokebottle
05-28-2011, 9:23 PM
What did your DI do to you the first time you carried your M16/4 by the handle, and did you ever do it again?

It was not designed to be a carry handle, it was designed to be a cover for the original top-mounted charging lever.
Production designs went to the familiar "pull" style charging handle, but the cover on the upper remained.


There is no need for the "carry handle"... and in fact, it makes optics mounting less than optimal.

tacticalcity
05-28-2011, 9:24 PM
No. Not really.

The term "carry handle" is a nickname based on its looks. It was never meant to be used as an actual handle. By doing so you break all kinds of basic firearms safety rules. If you were military it would be a quick way to get reamed by your superior. A range master will yell at you for it too. There is no more "bubba" move than carrying it that way.

These days your choice of rear sight is more about looks than anything else. What general look are you going for? Vintage? Then you need an A1 receiver. 90's? Then you need an A2 receiver. Current? Detachable carry handle or flip-up buis. The type of shooting you plan to do plays a roll as well. Optics (scopes and red dots) work better on flat tops than carry handles. They cheek better. Which is the reason we have flat tops in the first place.

Elevation adjustsment can be done by adjusting the front sight post. So all you need on the rear is windage. If it is a precision rifle, and you will be making very long range shots on the fly, then it is nice to have elevation in the rear sight as well. But on a M4, it is not necessary. You will set it and forget it.

Usually you can pick up a quality carry handle cheaper than an equal quality flip-up rear sight. So price comes into play as well.

bob7122
05-28-2011, 9:27 PM
i just learned something new...

NYY
05-28-2011, 9:29 PM
What did your DI do to you the first time you carried your M16/4 by the handle, and did you ever do it again?

It was not designed to be a carry handle, it was designed to be a cover for the original top-mounted charging lever.
Production designs went to the familiar "pull" style charging handle, but the cover on the upper remained.


There is no need for the "carry handle"... and in fact, it makes optics mounting less than optimal.

I am not a marine haha. (check my sig line..recently changed. long story) but anyways, i never knew that! thankyou for the info and yes i agree with you on making it inconvenient when u want another optic on

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=427495&highlight=carry+handle

thanks! appreciate it

NYY
05-28-2011, 9:31 PM
yea i dont really like the look of the A2 style, IMO. after all, it is all about looks right? ;) but on a serious note, it bothers me that it covers the entire top of my receiver (cant use other optics). appreciate the info guys! thanks

tacticalcity
05-28-2011, 9:32 PM
That notch is there because the original design had an upside down trigger that I believe was a kind of forward assist (the historians can feel free to correct me on its function). When that was removed from the design, that hole under the sight was left in place. Probably because filling it would add weight. The top long part was probably left in place because it worked well (at the time) as an optional scope mounting platform. Rails had not been invented yet. So it made an all in one solution.

As for boot camp, somebody always makes that mistake. Makes for an entertaining morning. They don't just punish the guy who does it. They punish everyone. Ah basic training. The most fun you never want to have again! So many great stories.

Another FYI, military life gets progressively better after basic training. So if you find it to be more difficult than expected, just keep reminding yourself it only gets better as time goes on. Stress level drops by half when you leave basic. Then by half again when you finish training and show up at your first duty station. At least it did for me. Overseas asignments are the least stressful. Probably because people depend on each other more. Not just for work, but for their social life. Being so far from home. I never felt more at home in the military then when I was deployed overseas.

NYY
05-28-2011, 9:37 PM
As for boot camp, somebody always makes that mistake. Makes for an entertaining morning. They don't just punish the guy who does it. They punish everyone. Ah basic training. The most fun you never want to have again! So many great stories.

i wouldnt know, but i sure plan on looking forward to it!

rattlesnake_nm
05-28-2011, 9:38 PM
It was the charging handle. The "carry handle" just protected it.

ojisan
05-28-2011, 9:43 PM
Original Armalite with top mounted charging handle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/shamar01/AR10_b.jpg

Droppin Deuces
05-28-2011, 9:44 PM
Well, if you're joining the military, you might as well have one and learn to use it. At least it'll put you that one step ahead of the curbve.
I'm not joining and I made sure I had an A2 sight of some sort just to learn...

killshot44
05-28-2011, 9:44 PM
Seems to work for this guy........:rolleyes:

http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab348/Killshot44_bucket/carryh1.jpg

Cokebottle
05-28-2011, 9:45 PM
That notch is there because the original design had an upside down trigger that I believe was a kind of forward assist (the historians can feel free to correct me on its function).
It was the charging handle.
The traditional forward assist came along much, much later (there are still arsenal rebuilds in service in the sandbox without the FA).

As I mentioned, it never went into general production. I don't know if it was actually attached at the gas key or if it floated like a modern charging handle.
If it was attached, then I supposed it could have been used as a forward assist... and it also would have cycled with the bolt.

This is an early AR10, but it was the same idea:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/Ar-10.jpg

killshot44
05-28-2011, 9:46 PM
At least it'll put you that one step ahead of the curb Curve.

Fixed

Droppin Deuces
05-28-2011, 9:48 PM
Fixed

Dang, did I really type that? I'm losing my touch lately with the spell checking...

NYY
05-28-2011, 9:51 PM
Well, if you're joining the military, you might as well have one and learn to use it. At least it'll put you that one step ahead of the curbve.
I'm not joining and I made sure I had an A2 sight of some sort just to learn...

no i had an a2 upper for about a year and put a good amount of rounds through it, but sold it. Im contemplating getting the attachment for my a4 flat top because i never really figured out if there were advantages or not..

Droppin Deuces
05-28-2011, 9:56 PM
The advantage is that you have elevation adjustment(marked to 600m) with an A2 as opposed to either guessing with your BUIS or adjusting your front.

killshot44
05-28-2011, 9:58 PM
Dang, did I really type that? I'm losing my touch lately with the spell checking...

Haha. I won't use my phone for posting for that reason....

We see a LOT of bad spelling on here, I figured it was more of the same.

/actually, you probably DO want to stay ahead of "the curb" while in Boot.:D

NYY
05-28-2011, 9:59 PM
The advantage is that you have elevation adjustment(marked to 600m) with an A2 as opposed to either guessing with your BUIS or adjusting your front.

ohhhh i see now. Well whats more accurate..adjusting the front post? or adjusting the rear on the A2..

Cokebottle
05-28-2011, 10:10 PM
ohhhh i see now. Well whats more accurate..adjusting the front post? or adjusting the rear on the A2..
You can get fixed rear sights that are elevation-adjustable... you're not stuck with a carry handle to get that.

The difference between the front and rear is the front is not calibrated, so once you have your BSZ set, you really don't want to go futzing with your front sight post.
The adjustable rear sights are calibrated (based on what ammo?) by distance to compensate for bullet drop.
You can do the same thing with quality optics.

Droppin Deuces
05-28-2011, 10:10 PM
I don't think one is more accurate than the other. But the rear is marked and adjustable by hand and thereby much quicker, while the front requires a bullet tip or a dedicated adjustment tool and some on-the-fly math skills.

NYY
05-28-2011, 10:17 PM
hmmm okay i understand. So in my opinion, the best bet is to find a back-up-rear with adjustable elevation.. (as to not wanting to deal with adjusting the front post, from past experiences). thanks fella's for narrowing down my decisions!

Droppin Deuces
05-28-2011, 10:22 PM
Or get an adjustable front sight.

http://www.store-diamondhead-usa.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=10151&PhotoNumber=5

chead
05-28-2011, 10:22 PM
Original Armalite with top mounted charging handle:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/shamar01/AR10_b.jpg

Wow, I had no idea that's what it was for originally. Awesome picture, thanks!

Cokebottle
05-28-2011, 10:24 PM
hmmm okay i understand. So in my opinion, the best bet is to find a back-up-rear with adjustable elevation.. (as to not wanting to deal with adjusting the front post, from past experiences). thanks fella's for narrowing down my decisions!
Or just zero at 50 yards and you'll be in the kill zone anywhere from 0 to 300 yards.

Honestly, the 5.56 AR is not the best beyond 200 yards anyways.
BSZ at 50 yards will have you at zero at 50 and 225 yards. At 100 yards you'll be 2-3" high, and at 300 yards about 3-4" low.
Bullet drop increases dramatically beyond that.

When SHTF and the zombies are coming down your street, you aren't going to have time to accurately estimate their range... you're going to grab your gun and shoot center mass.

Droppin Deuces
05-28-2011, 10:28 PM
Or just zero at 50 yards and you'll be in the kill zone anywhere from 0 to 300 yards.

Honestly, the 5.56 AR is not the best beyond 200 yards anyways.
BSZ at 50 yards will have you at zero at 50 and 225 yards. At 100 yards you'll be 2-3" high, and at 300 yards about 3-4" low.
Bullet drop increases dramatically beyond that.

When SHTF and the zombies are coming down your street, you aren't going to have time to accurately estimate their range... you're going to grab your gun and shoot center mass.

I think it really depends on the type of zombie walking down your street. Slow movers or fast movers? What if you have a range finder? I happen to know the exact yardage from block to block in my neighborhood...:TFH:

Cokebottle
05-28-2011, 10:34 PM
I happen to know the exact yardage from block to block in my neighborhood...:TFH:
And when you're bugged out in the hills/desert? ;)

Droppin Deuces
05-28-2011, 10:43 PM
And when you're bugged out in the hills/desert? ;)

Mil dot optics/spotting scope:p Everyone is "about 6' tall."

plumbum
05-28-2011, 10:43 PM
I like the simple straight lines of the A3 flat-top, but if someone could tell me where to find a bakelite stock set I might change my mind :D