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View Full Version : 308 AR15 Upper. Really... Not a typo...


franklinarmory
05-28-2011, 11:06 AM
http://www.franklinarmory.com/publishImages/PRODUCTS~~element97.jpgHey Calgunners.

We have come up with a functional 308 Winchester upper for the AR15. To be clear, this is NOT an AR10. Since the magazine does not handle the COAL of the 308, it is strictly a single shot. However, it does use the gas system to eject the case and hold the bolt open.

The cost is $750 MSRP, and we figure that this is about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest available AR10 configuration. We are figuring that the market for this is the target shooter, the single shot hunter, and the survivalist that wants to expand the utility of his AR15 without having to run another DROS.

What do you think about this? What caliber would you like to see one of these in, or is it about as useful as mammary glands on a boar?

Fiveohmike
05-28-2011, 11:12 AM
http://www.franklinarmory.com/publishImages/PRODUCTS~~element97.jpgHey Calgunners.

We have come up with a functional 308 Winchester upper for the AR15. To be clear, this is NOT an AR10. Since the magazine does not handle the COAL of the 308, it is strictly a single shot. However, it does use the gas system to eject the case and hold the bolt open.

The cost is $750 MSRP, and we figure that this is about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest available AR10 configuration. We are figuring that the market for this is the target shooter, the single shot hunter, and the survivalist that wants to expand the utility of his AR15 without having to run another DROS.

What do you think about this? What caliber would you like to see one of these in, or is it about as useful as mammary glands on a boar?

For me, its not usefull. If you are going to go single shot .308 for 750, it just makes more sense to get a bolt action. That defeats the entire purpose of the AR10 platform, to have a semiauto .308 center fire rifle.

slomofo
05-28-2011, 11:29 AM
Seems useless to me since DPMS .308s start out around the $870.00 mark and go up from there, but are real semi autos and available in .243, .270, .338 federal, etc. .

franklinarmory
05-28-2011, 11:31 AM
For me, its not usefull. If you are going to go single shot .308 for 750, it just makes more sense to get a bolt action. That defeats the entire purpose of the AR10 platform, to have a semiauto .308 center fire rifle.
10-4, I hear ya. Thanks for responding.

The information is very helpful. If only 5% of the AR15 owners would consider it, then it's worth doing (since there's a lot of AR shooters out there.) If it is less than 1%, well then.... back to the drawing boards. :)

tomd1584
05-28-2011, 11:35 AM
make it a bolt action and i'd be interested. I've been asking for one of these for a while.

Black Majik
05-28-2011, 11:36 AM
For $750 you can pick up a very accurate bolt action rifle, and not need to worry about fiddling with the charging handle. I commend you guys for coming up with the concept, but it's not in the least practical.

Fiveohmike
05-28-2011, 11:38 AM
make it a bolt action and i'd be interested. I've been asking for one of these for a while.

+1!

damon1272
05-28-2011, 11:42 AM
I understand the why's behind it but I do not see the utility of it. Kind of pointless in my book.

Beetle Bailey
05-28-2011, 11:44 AM
I am trying to imagine who would chose this over a simple bolt-action rifle. It's gotta be for someone who is so in love with the AR15 they will have nothing else. I suppose if you have enough invested in your lower (match trigger and expensive buttstock) it would make sense to just get this instead of a stock bolt action. Also you can't just buy, say, a Remington 700 SPS Tactical in .243 win or .260 rem off the shelf.

Personally, since I like bolt actions, I wouldn't get it, but I can see that under the right circumstances, it might be a viable choice.

thrillhouse700
05-28-2011, 1:52 PM
negative ghost rider the pattern is full.

Not liking it, like others have said bolt action would sell much better, would also end up slightly cheaper maybe since you would not need a buffer spring and buffer. But honestly for the price I would just get a remmy or similar bolt gun.

slick_711
05-28-2011, 3:08 PM
OP, I commend your desire to develop new ideas, new products, and give us more options. Keep doing so!

That said, like the other guys said... I just don't see a need in this particular case. If it's single shot a good bolt gun will be more accurate, lighter, and potentially less expensive.

plumbum
05-28-2011, 4:13 PM
Sounds interesting, but not $750 interesting!

I'd be interested in something that could turn a lower into, say a straight pull action in a pistol caliber? (like a .45 ACP that uses 1911 magazines). How much would I pay for a useless range toy like that? Probably less than it would cost to make... so I'm no help!

But please, we are happy to be your conceptual guinea pigs, keep it coming!

Since we are tossing out random ideas, I really do love those old timer cartridges (.250/.300 Savage, .35 Remington, .30-30 Winchester) but making a magazine feed those would be expensive.

TKM
05-28-2011, 4:33 PM
I have a single shot bolt action upper for an AR. It's a 50BMG, but it's not a bad idea.

A tough sell for the masses but not a bad idea.

Maybe figure out a quick swap barrel for multiple calibers with a flat bolthead to make it a universal fit. Can that be done? I've seen the AR muzzle-loader and crossbow. Water pistol is next.

Kind of like a Contender but with a nice normal AR stock.

Good luck, I'm always happy to see people thinking about new stuff.

rchman
05-28-2011, 6:02 PM
Also, I think it'd have more appeal if it was a side-charging upper.

franklinarmory
05-29-2011, 9:52 PM
Thank you to all that replied. It is truly helpful. You guys are great.:punk:

We will work on a bolt action AR system. Though, I'm surprised that a turn bolt has so much appeal. The current system uses the charging handle only on the first round. After the trigger is pulled, the case ejects and the bolt is held open leaving the operator to slip a new round in and drop the carrier. Perhaps a turn bolt would have a slight advantage in accuracy, but we'll have to test it and see.

Thanks again! :)

pyro3k2
05-29-2011, 11:50 PM
Thank you to all that replied. It is truly helpful. You guys are great.:punk:

We will work on a bolt action AR system. Though, I'm surprised that a turn bolt has so much appeal. The current system uses the charging handle only on the first round. After the trigger is pulled, the case ejects and the bolt is held open leaving the operator to slip a new round in and drop the carrier. Perhaps a turn bolt would have a slight advantage in accuracy, but we'll have to test it and see.

Thanks again! :)

could there be target models and hunting models? like a free float tube with bi-pod stud or muzzle brake instead of a flash hider for the targets. And then what is pictured for the hunting?

I have a lot of money put into my AR lower in terms of trigger/grip/stock upgrades and if you made a bolt action upper in .308 or other larger cals like 300winmag or 30-06 for the hunting. And for less than a bolt action rifle you WILL have a paying customer here.

frigginchi
05-29-2011, 11:59 PM
If you some how you made an upper that works like a Sten Gun amd kept it at that price point I would be very interested.

http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/uploads/sten_mk2/sten_mk2_ff_10.jpg

franklinarmory
05-30-2011, 8:33 AM
could there be target models and hunting models? like a free float tube with bi-pod stud or muzzle brake instead of a flash hider for the targets. And then what is pictured for the hunting?

Most definitely. We only have the 20" HBAR barrel available right now, but we have thought that it would work well in a 24" 416 bull barrel configuration too if the interest was there. In the mean time, we could build it out with a free float tube and YHM brake for the same price. A Harris bi pod stud would add a few dollars, but not much.

Frigginchi, you've got the right idea. The two biggest problems are redesigning the bolt to feed from the left and eject to the bottom, and the fact that the upper would have to be milled with gussets to accept the magazine. Both of these will take a lot of R&D, but we'll work on it.

Looking at the votes, I can see why the M1A1 only comes in 308.

newglockster
05-30-2011, 8:43 AM
+1 on a Bolt-action upper

plumbum
05-30-2011, 8:59 AM
If you some how you made an upper that works like a Sten Gun amd kept it at that price point I would be very interested.

Ha! That is exactly what I was thinking about. Like a mix of a Mech-Tech CCU and that AR-57 deal.

Actually that straight pull idea sounds really cool, especially if set up for left handed loading, like those Savage benchrest actions.

shooterdude
05-30-2011, 9:14 AM
http://www.franklinarmory.com/publishImages/PRODUCTS~~element97.jpgHey Calgunners.

We have come up with a functional 308 Winchester upper for the AR15. To be clear, this is NOT an AR10. Since the magazine does not handle the COAL of the 308, it is strictly a single shot. However, it does use the gas system to eject the case and hold the bolt open.

The cost is $750 MSRP, and we figure that this is about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest available AR10 configuration. We are figuring that the market for this is the target shooter, the single shot hunter, and the survivalist that wants to expand the utility of his AR15 without having to run another DROS.

What do you think about this? What caliber would you like to see one of these in, or is it about as useful as mammary glands on a boar?

Most manufacturers figure out the market for a product before they expend resources to produce it and advertise the price to the public. The Internet is an awesome research tool in that you could go to every forum and ask your potential market what they want THEN produce a product based upon demand.

Learn the lessons of the AR-57 upper. Who needs an upper that costs as much as it does and shoots a less powerful round than 5.56 that also costs more than 5.56? On the other hand, dedicated .22 uppers meet a need perfectly and the price point for its acquisition and cost of use is highly attractive!

romeo26
05-30-2011, 9:30 AM
+1!

+1 on a Bolt-action upper

i guess ill be +1 also. in order for this to work you will need to price it some what below what current 308 bolt actions go for. also marketing can make or break this type of product.

franklinarmory
05-30-2011, 10:15 AM
Most manufacturers figure out the market for a product before they expend resources to produce it and advertise the price to the public. The Internet is an awesome research tool in that you could go to every forum and ask your potential market what they want THEN produce a product based upon demand.

Learn the lessons of the AR-57 upper. Who needs an upper that costs as much as it does and shoots a less powerful round than 5.56 that also costs more than 5.56? On the other hand, dedicated .22 uppers meet a need perfectly and the price point for its acquisition and cost of use is highly attractive!

While we could have done exactly what you suggest, I personally don't like it when other MFGs announce something and then don't have it readily available. Instead, our philosophy was to run a limited number of barrels and bolts in our 308 design. If it sells well, we'll be able to meet current demand and then plan on a larger production run. If not, then I'm sure we'll move what we have eventually. All the other upper parts are part of our existing inventory anyhow, so it didn't require a lot of additional investment to bring it to market.

To my knowledge, no one else has made this available for the AR15, so sometimes you don't know if something is marketable unless or until you try it. :) It will never sell like a .22lr upper, but heck, I'd be ecstatic if it sold like a 5.7!

Calguns is a great forum. The feedback is fantastic. We'll get working on the bolt action system.

bluebird
05-30-2011, 11:16 AM
If you want a .308 bullet in an AR, there's always the 300BLK =)

goodlookin1
05-30-2011, 11:23 AM
http://www.franklinarmory.com/publishImages/PRODUCTS~~element97.jpgHey Calgunners.

We have come up with a functional 308 Winchester upper for the AR15. To be clear, this is NOT an AR10. Since the magazine does not handle the COAL of the 308, it is strictly a single shot. However, it does use the gas system to eject the case and hold the bolt open.

The cost is $750 MSRP, and we figure that this is about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest available AR10 configuration. We are figuring that the market for this is the target shooter, the single shot hunter, and the survivalist that wants to expand the utility of his AR15 without having to run another DROS.

What do you think about this? What caliber would you like to see one of these in, or is it about as useful as mammary glands on a boar?

I just built up my .308 AR-10 style (DPMS) for $943......quite a far cry from $1500 as you mentioned. And I didnt even wait for all of the deals! I could have gone cheaper if I had more patience ;)

I'd much rather have the little extra weight and a semi-auto .308 for $193 than to save the money and weight for a single shot. Like someone else mentioned.....bolt action is much preffered over a single shot.

Just my $0.02 worth.....

Ripon83
05-30-2011, 11:30 AM
Not for me. If the switch back to a 223/5.56 was quick and easy then having it support a really high-power caliber might be cool, but going up to 308 isn't worth it.....

pyro3k2
05-30-2011, 6:47 PM
Not for me. If the switch back to a 223/5.56 was quick and easy then having it support a really high-power caliber might be cool, but going up to 308 isn't worth it.....

The switch is easy it's just an upper. You can go from single (hopefully bolt action) back to semi auto 5.56 with just changing the upper.

killshot44
05-30-2011, 7:57 PM
Since so many cartridges share the .473" boltface, offering chamberings in .260, 6.5Creedmoor, .308 would be fairly easy.
Put it In a slickside Upper with either a side-charging semiauto or a Upper modified for a manual bolt?
People who like AR ergos over a traditional bolt-gun (like me) would buy one.

theturtlepond
05-30-2011, 9:45 PM
You could always make it belt fed. Now that would be cool.

pyro3k2
05-31-2011, 12:18 AM
You could always make it belt fed. Now that would be cool.

it's been done already and being sold, this is for a bolt action upper.

hlcarbine
05-31-2011, 12:28 AM
i would be interested in a bolt 308 upper

jarhead995
06-07-2011, 11:23 PM
make it a bolt action and i'd be interested. I've been asking for one of these for a while.

Bolt action upper mounted on an ar15 lower? sounds BA

DannyInSoCal
06-07-2011, 11:27 PM
Sounds interesting, but not $750 interesting!

I'd be interested in something that could turn a lower into, say a straight pull action in a pistol caliber? (like a .45 ACP that uses 1911 magazines). How much would I pay for a useless range toy like that? Probably less than it would cost to make... so I'm no help!

But please, we are happy to be your conceptual guinea pigs, keep it coming!

Since we are tossing out random ideas, I really do love those old timer cartridges (.250/.300 Savage, .35 Remington, .30-30 Winchester) but making a magazine feed those would be expensive.

MGI makes a set-up like that - It shoots 9mm and with a quick change .45ACP

To the OP - Sounds kool - But it's kinda like .45 GAP -

An answer to a question that's not really asked.

Now set it up for 10rd mags to shoot 7.62x54 and you've got something to blast away for pennies a round...

pyro3k2
06-07-2011, 11:35 PM
MGI makes a set-up like that - It shoots 9mm and with a quick change .45ACP

To the OP - Sounds kool - But it's kinda like .45 GAP -

An answer to a question that's not really asked.

Now set it up for 10rd mags to shoot 7.62x54 and you've got something to blast away for pennies a round...

There is a demand for such a thing, with how much money I have invested into my lower a bolt action large cal upper would be saving me a lot of money down the road. I know they make .338LM, .416, and 50bmg bolt uppers but something for affordable to shoot like .308, 7.62x54r, or even an 30-06 would be great.

FS00008
06-08-2011, 12:07 AM
If you could do a side-feed with downward ejection I'd be in, even for around $1000. Especially if it took current AR10 magazines.

I'd also be VERY interested in an upper chambered in 7.62x54R, especially if you could figure out a way to get it to feed..

franklinarmory
06-08-2011, 9:59 AM
If you could do a side-feed with downward ejection I'd be in, even for around $1000. Especially if it took current AR10 magazines.

We've got an idea that will work just as you suggested. After we have it R&Dd, we'll bring it up for show & tell. As far as the mags go, we design it to use AR10, M1A1, or FAL mags. ...any strong opinions???

frigginchi
06-08-2011, 12:15 PM
The less expensive the mag the better :D

We've got an idea that will work just as you suggested. After we have it R&Dd, we'll bring it up for show & tell. As far as the mags go, we design it to use AR10, M1A1, or FAL mags. ...any strong opinions???

pyro3k2
06-08-2011, 12:44 PM
We've got an idea that will work just as you suggested. After we have it R&Dd, we'll bring it up for show & tell. As far as the mags go, we design it to use AR10, M1A1, or FAL mags. ...any strong opinions???

AR-10 or SR-25 mags would be the best option, especially if you produce a picture of a side mounted PMAG.

FS00008
06-08-2011, 1:26 PM
We've got an idea that will work just as you suggested. After we have it R&Dd, we'll bring it up for show & tell. As far as the mags go, we design it to use AR10, M1A1, or FAL mags. ...any strong opinions???

Personally I'd rather AR10 mags or Metric FAL mags, as one is already straight in lock, and the other is easily adapted to be so. I don't want to rock and lock it.

kkritter
06-08-2011, 2:52 PM
Not exactly what the OP asked but.....others have said this before. I like the ergonomics of the AR platform, I like the control of a bolt action, I dislike bullet buttons and not being able to use my (legally owned) "high cap" mags. I would love to see a .308 bolt action upper for an AR-10 type lower that utilizes the magazine and not have to worry about CA assault weapon laws....Yes I know, disable the gas system and use the charging handle, no! I want a bolt action upper so it won't confuse a LEO.....another 2 cents opined......

17+1
06-08-2011, 3:52 PM
10-4, I hear ya. Thanks for responding.

The information is very helpful. If only 5% of the AR15 owners would consider it, then it's worth doing (since there's a lot of AR shooters out there.) If it is less than 1%, well then.... back to the drawing boards. :)

I single load most of the time but want the option to feed ammunition from a magazine.

I most likely won't ever build a 308 AR, but if I did, I would never buy a single shot only upper for my 223 lower.