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MrKojack1
05-28-2011, 12:44 AM
Ok so I want to change out the stock handgaurds on my Stag Arms Model 1. I was gonna put a free floating quad rail but I dont want to have two rails I wont be using since I most likely only be using the top and bottom. Does anyone have any suggestions on something else I can get? Doesnt have to be free floating a drop in will do just fine. Thanks.

Capita159
05-28-2011, 1:03 AM
Your best bet if you don't plan on removing the front sight base.
"link below"
YHM tube (http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product256.html)
they also have them in free floating tubes.

JeffM
05-28-2011, 1:04 AM
Magpul MOE

dieselpower
05-28-2011, 9:51 AM
GG&G. Complete customizable. Either FF or Drop in and both solid as a freaking ROCK.

http://www.gggaz.com/ar-15-free-float-tactical-forearm.html

I'll post pics of my old build in a few minutes...got to find them.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/acsstag-15.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/1.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/2.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/4.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/6.jpg

Its a rock solid design, its as light or as heavy as you want it to be.

tomd1584
05-28-2011, 10:02 AM
GG&G. Complete customizable. Either FF or Drop in and both solid as a freaking ROCK.

http://www.gggaz.com/ar-15-free-float-tactical-forearm.html

I'll post pics of my old build in a few minutes...got to find them.


GG&G: When four rails just isn't enough!



http://www.gggaz.com/images/detailed/Free-Float-Tactical-Forearm.jpg

dieselpower
05-28-2011, 10:09 AM
^ or when you only want 1 !!!!
you can have none or up to 8, or even 1/2 length.... your choice

In_this_city
05-28-2011, 10:16 AM
That GG&G looks good. Id say MOE for drop in or the VTAC TRX for free float.

iskra31
05-28-2011, 10:18 AM
^ or when you only want 1 !!!!
you can have none or up to 8, or even 1/2 length.... your choice

Just moved to the top of my next to buy list! Thanks guys!:D

tomd1584
05-28-2011, 10:24 AM
^ or when you only want 1 !!!!
you can have none or up to 8, or even 1/2 length.... your choice

at what point does modularity go too far? All i see when i look at those photo's is more screws to come loose. Do you really need rail options at 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30 locations?

Its always good to have options I guess, as someone will buy it.

its mcgavin son
05-28-2011, 10:29 AM
Knight's Armament M4/AR15 RAS -- battle tested and proved.

HK Dave
05-28-2011, 10:59 AM
Knight's Armament M4/AR15 RAS -- battle tested and proved.

Yes... and the cheapest one available to boot! :sarcasm:

dieselpower
05-28-2011, 11:30 AM
at what point does modularity go too far? All i see when i look at those photo's is more screws to come loose. Do you really need rail options at 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30 locations?

Its always good to have options I guess, as someone will buy it.

High-Temp loctite and its done. People Stake, torque, use lock washers and have no issue... yet offer something different that also requires that same LOGICAL assembly procedure and they think its a flaw?

Are you worried your Flash hider will come loose?
Are you worried your pistol grip will fall off?
How often does your Receiver extension tube get loose?

I beat the living hell out of my gear. I have never had an issue. Granted, I have a 14.5 with perm Flash hider, but the other stuff applies to my Carbine just as it applies to others.

If you properly assemble, you have no worries. I do not stake my gas keys... and have NEVER had a problem.

When I had the GG&G, if I did reconfigure the rails, I used loctite on the screw threads. never once had an issue. You gain the ability to customize your gear and as long as you follow common sense when assembling a FIREARM, you will have no troubles and benefit from that ability.

tomd1584
05-28-2011, 11:51 AM
High-Temp loctite and its done. People Stake, torque, use lock washers and have no issue... yet offer something different that also requires that same LOGICAL assembly procedure and they think its a flaw?

Are you worried your Flash hider will come loose?
Are you worried your pistol grip will fall off?
How often does your Receiver extension tube get loose?

I beat the living hell out of my gear. I have never had an issue. Granted, I have a 14.5 with perm Flash hider, but the other stuff applies to my Carbine just as it applies to others.

If you properly assemble, you have no worries. I do not stake my gas keys... and have NEVER had a problem.

When I had the GG&G, if I did reconfigure the rails, I used loctite on the screw threads. never once had an issue. You gain the ability to customize your gear and as long as you follow common sense when assembling a FIREARM, you will have no troubles and benefit from that ability.

I have had things come loose, even when I use loctite on all screws, along with witness marks. Maybe not the flash hider, but optic mounts, grips, flashlight mounts, whatever. Things come loose during constant use, loctite or not. period. routine checking & re application of loctite needs to happen.

I don't know how you define "beat the living hell out of your gear", but i've taken 4 carbine classes in the last 2 years. Things do come loose, even with loctite- thats where the witness marks help. I also shoot every (well, 3 out of 4) Friday's at a LEO range, anywhere from 150-400 rounds. I always check any screws after I'm done.

I am curious though. Does the 16.4 ounces listed weight include all the attachments (rails, covers), or just the handguard itself? I ask because that is pretty heavy for a carbine handguard. In fact, it would rank the heaviest out of all the carbine FF handguards listed on this chart. (https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html)

Just for the sake of this conversation, i think the idea is a good one. Obviously its a popular one because other manufacturers do it to. I just fail to see why rails are needed at ALL those locations.

Cheers

missiontrails
05-28-2011, 11:55 AM
GG&G. Complete customizable. Either FF or Drop in and both solid as a freaking ROCK.

http://www.gggaz.com/ar-15-free-float-tactical-forearm.html

I'll post pics of my old build in a few minutes...got to find them.

http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/acsstag-15.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/1.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/2.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/4.jpg
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/6.jpg

Its a rock solid design, its as light or as heavy as you want it to be.

Agree.... I have had a couple of GG&G Dominator uppers, one with the drop in rail, and one with the FF... both were solid and good quality.

7.62 Charlie
05-28-2011, 12:00 PM
Troy industries battle rail

http://store.troyind.com/11_TRX_Extreme_BattleRail_p/strx-eli-e0bt-00.htm

ojisan
05-28-2011, 12:27 PM
Despite the heavy barrel, otherwise I have kept things as light weight as I can with this build.
I found this rail piece at a gun show a few years ago.
Unknown brand, this plastic rail piece bolts right on, top or bottom.
It's mounted on the bottom here.
Clean, simple and light weight.
A short piece of universal-fit rail is mounted on the top.
Most of the quad rail handguards weigh 8 ounces or more...I can't see adding the weight unless you really, really need all that rail area.
http://i524.photobucket.com/albums/cc324/scottwerx/P5280156.jpg

bombadillo
05-28-2011, 12:57 PM
Either the YHM rail that you can adapt, or a VTAC rail from jprifles.com

both will do you well and free floating will potentially increase accuracy if you're using a sling.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQKyJZxhkhh34436ngDOdSIB39OpkewT ETWvo6IZE3wbi5vuOKv

http://auction-e.com/image/20/11/7381.jpg

762.DEFENSE
05-28-2011, 12:59 PM
Magpul MOE
This would be the most cost effective, and lightweight.

Your best bet if you don't plan on removing the front sight base.
"link below"
YHM tube (http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product256.html)
they also have them in free floating tubes.

I love YHM Free Float Tubes as well. :cool2:

dieselpower
05-28-2011, 1:00 PM
I have had things come loose, even when I use loctite on all screws, along with witness marks. Maybe not the flash hider, but optic mounts, grips, flashlight mounts, whatever. Things come loose during constant use, loctite or not. period. routine checking & re application of loctite needs to happen.

I don't know how you define "beat the living hell out of your gear", but i've taken 4 carbine classes in the last 2 years. Things do come loose, even with loctite- thats where the witness marks help. I also shoot every (well, 3 out of 4) Friday's at a LEO range, anywhere from 150-400 rounds. I always check any screws after I'm done.

I am curious though. Does the 16.4 ounces listed weight include all the attachments (rails, covers), or just the handguard itself? I ask because that is pretty heavy for a carbine handguard. In fact, it would rank the heaviest out of all the carbine FF handguards listed on this chart. (https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsFnUZMkZNF2DQ&output=html)

Just for the sake of this conversation, i think the idea is a good one. Obviously its a popular one because other manufacturers do it to. I just fail to see why rails are needed at ALL those locations.

Cheers

the weight is with all rails installed (I would imagine). Some of the rails are steel, some 7075, some carbon fiber. The weight would depend on the configuration. Stripped, without the screws installed as thread protectors, I have no idea. I wish I had weighed it. Its very light though.

If you are having an issue with things coming loose after applying high temp Loctite, you need to change the screw or nut. You have over torqued the threading and it stretched out. This is common in both the military and civilian firearms community. In the military we paracorded everything since we were not allowed to get new stuff...LOL

By "beat the hell out of it", I do not mean just sitting at a bench and firing a bunch of rounds. I am sure if you are going through several CC a month, you too are beating the hell out of it, and if you are experiencing equipment loosening up, you need to get that fixed.

For a threaded part to come loose after the proper application of High-Temp loctite and proper torque means one of several things.
1) Improper tightening, not enough or can not be accomplished. self explanatory.
2) Exceeding temp threshold of thread lock compound which then turns it back into a liquid, the heating and cooling at this temp turn the loctite into a lube. High temp Loctite does this at 500 (+/- 50) degrees. You can reach 500 degrees at about 35-45 seconds of full automatic firing. On a semiauto 500 degrees is reached after four nor five 30rd magazine dumps in rapid secession. String firing, (3 round rapid trigger pulls with 3-5 seconds between pulls) gets up to the 350-400 degree mark.
3) Worn threading. Over torquing, over heating widens the gap in threading between two parts. At some point the two threaded parts must be changed.
4) Mechanical assembly of the items prevents the threads from locking and no amount of thread locker will solve that. Most scope / optic attachments points are made to NOT permanently lock. The quality of the part is in how it was designed. Most of the time when something comes loose it was designed to be replaced and loosened to begin with. This is why its extremely rare for a muzzle device or pistol grip to loosen up...it happens but not often....even under battlefield conditions. Yet my ACOG & M68 constantly fell off.

The proper application of torque and Red loctite on a threaded part is NEAR PERMANENT. I know manufactures that lock up the Red loctite and it requires a signature from QA to access the single 4oz bottle. There are some places that require QA present during its application to the threads.

Yes, threading that has had Red Loctite applied does come loose. That is due to improper assembly or worn threads.

I have used the GG&G rail. When properly assembled with BLUE Loctite, the rails are solid and secure. The rails didn't loosen up after a hard days use. When assembled with RED loctite, you are going to pay the Devil to remove them...and I did. Butane torch to the tip of the bolt was needed to start the screw moving without stripping the bolt head.

Don29palms
05-28-2011, 1:47 PM
Samson Evolution Handguard! Fully customizable.

rareair
05-28-2011, 2:22 PM
X2 on the Troy TRX -series of hand guards. Not only the lightest in weight, but you can place the mounting rails anywhere you need them. Or leave them off when you don't. Available in several lengths too (7.2", 7.6", 9", 11", 13" & even 15")
http://troyind.com/wp-content/uploads/battlerails.jpg

dieselpower
05-28-2011, 3:29 PM
Samson Evolution Handguard! Fully customizable.

http://www.samson-mfg.com/ar-15_html/product/Samson_Evolution_Series.html

I think this is why GG&G dropped his price. His rails were like $250 LOL

bombadillo
05-28-2011, 4:25 PM
YHM is both Drop-in and customizable: http://yankeehillmachine.com/store/product256.html

Price is right at a hundred and a half and you could probably find them cheaper. They lock up pretty dang solid (not that I'd want to mount an optic on, but solid either way) and you can leave it all smooth except what you want a rail on. I have used a lot of YHM and they seem to just get better and better while keeping the prices low. Their finish is almost like that of the old USGI mags with the coating that seems to pick up a lot of scratches so they don't look as pretty as some of the others, but their function is awesome and all USA made to boot. Great company at a great price.

http://yankeehill.bizland.com/store/media/YHM-9840.jpg

Cyc Wid It
05-28-2011, 4:37 PM
You might look into Centurion C4 Rails.
http://centurionarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=123&Itemid=154

It's available directly through them or some forum vendors here.

Wnick308
05-28-2011, 5:11 PM
The Vltor is free floating and fully customizable.

http://www.vltor.com/casv-el.htm

Don29palms
05-28-2011, 5:16 PM
You might look into Centurion C4 Rails.
http://centurionarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=123&Itemid=154

It's available directly through them or some forum vendors here.

Those are made by JD Machine. They are nice too.

Don29palms
05-28-2011, 5:20 PM
JD Machine handguard

http://www.jdmachinetech.com/gallery/tube1.jpg
http://www.jdmachinetech.com/gallery/tube3.jpg
http://www.jdmachinetech.com/gallery/tube2.jpg
http://www.jdmachinetech.com/gallery/tube4.jpg
http://www.jdmachinetech.com/gallery/tube5.jpg

rattlesnake_nm
05-28-2011, 7:09 PM
Magpul MOE

^ This. Save weight and money.

MrKojack1
05-29-2011, 1:05 AM
Damn I didnt know I had so many options on such good products. Thanks for your input everybody.