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View Full Version : "Keep the $247.00 Deposit"-Update msg#29


Bruce
05-27-2011, 7:45 PM
A friend of mine called me today to ask me about DROS. His brother is looking to buy a Beretta of some sort and was told by the store clerk that if his DROS were denied, the store would keep the $247 deposit on the gun because it was state law. The brother had a 5150WIC over five years ago and a domestic violence case (unknown if convicted), over ten years ago. So since I'm the "gun guy", I'm being asked if that's kosher. I always thought a 5150 or domestic screwed the pooch for life as far as firearms were concerned.My friend says that the HSC book says after five years a 5150 is okay, and ten years for domestic violence. What do I tell him?

Sgt Raven
05-27-2011, 7:49 PM
Tell him to do a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC)with DOJ. ;)

eaglemike
05-27-2011, 7:50 PM
Keeping the deposit isn't state law........

Successfully getting rights back would likely require a lawyer. Some of the CalGunsFoundation legal experts would have a better handle on the other stuff. Or just call Jason Davis.....

Quiet
05-27-2011, 8:08 PM
Tell him to do a Personal Firearms Eligibility Check (PFEC)with DOJ. ;)

:iagree:

Have him send in the PFEC (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf).


Also...
Under Federal laws [18 USC 922(g)(9)], a domestic violence conviction is a lifetime ban on firearms ownership/possession.

robcoe
05-27-2011, 8:17 PM
PFEC would be a very good idea, the 5150 or the DV(if he plead or was convicted) could really screw him up.

CSACANNONEER
05-27-2011, 8:22 PM
The first thing to do is find a different shop to do bussiness with and post the name of the shop that told him about this so called law that doesn'r exist. After that, find out if he is eligible to buy a gun.

chiselchst
05-27-2011, 8:28 PM
Isn't a denied DROS just that? Out the money the buyer paid for the DROS. But taking the deposit, isn't that illegal? (minus any contractual fees, etc.?)

Cokebottle
05-27-2011, 8:39 PM
Isn't a denied DROS just that? Out the money the buyer paid for the DROS. But taking the deposit, isn't that illegal? (minus any contractual fees, etc.?)
Legal if it's up-front.

Turner's charges a pretty hefty cancellation fee. It's a percentage of the gun price plus DROS and their $5 dealer fee.

IIRC, it would have cost me close to $300 to "cancel" my 1911 and my Glock.

But think about it from the FFL's viewpoint.

The $25 DROS goes straight to the DOJ. They don't get that back if you are denied or decide to cancel.
Their $5 dealer fee doesn't pay the labor to process the sale.

You've taken a gun out of their inventory that they can't sell for up to 10 days. If it's a hard-to-get gun, that 10 days might have cost them a sale to someone who would not have been denied.

eaglemike
05-27-2011, 8:58 PM
Legal if it's up-front.

Turner's charges a pretty hefty cancellation fee. It's a percentage of the gun price plus DROS and their $5 dealer fee.

IIRC, it would have cost me close to $300 to "cancel" my 1911 and my Glock.

But think about it from the FFL's viewpoint.

The $25 DROS goes straight to the DOJ. They don't get that back if you are denied or decide to cancel.
Their $5 dealer fee doesn't pay the labor to process the sale.

You've taken a gun out of their inventory that they can't sell for up to 10 days. If it's a hard-to-get gun, that 10 days might have cost them a sale to someone who would not have been denied.
The problem is the lie about it being the law...... :(
Be upfront about all fees, no problem. The FFL shouldn't lie about it to justify a policy the FFL is trying to hide. That is just plain not ethical. Period.

ETA: back on topic
The PFEC is a very good idea as others have said.
A friend of mine with some issues has been helped by Jason Davis. Based on his work in that situation and his 2A work, I recommend him highly. :)

FF/EMT Nick
05-27-2011, 9:22 PM
Legal if it's up-front.

Turner's charges a pretty hefty cancellation fee. It's a percentage of the gun price plus DROS and their $5 dealer fee.

IIRC, it would have cost me close to $300 to "cancel" my 1911 and my Glock.

But think about it from the FFL's viewpoint.

The $25 DROS goes straight to the DOJ. They don't get that back if you are denied or decide to cancel.
Their $5 dealer fee doesn't pay the labor to process the sale.

You've taken a gun out of their inventory that they can't sell for up to 10 days. If it's a hard-to-get gun, that 10 days might have cost them a sale to someone who would not have been denied.

I'm tired of hearing this crap "look at it from the FFL's side"

First of all, it's not OUR fault that the $25 DROS goes straight to DOJ, and they only get $5. I know that doesn't cover the cost of filing for them, BUT that is the DOJ screwing them.....NOT US!!!!!! They don't like the way the state set up the fee schedule? Get a lawyer and sue them to make them change it.

Secondly, so what if you take a gun out of inventory for ten days. You really believe that that gun wont sell the MINUTE it gets back out in inventory? If it is a hard to get gun, then it will sell the SECOND it gets freed up!

Then on top of it this FFL states that this is a LAW? You want to be honest and state that it's your policy, then fine, but to outright lie? Screw you FFL! All future sales lost, be cause your dirty and underhanded. Way to go!

Every time an FFL decides to lie to the customer, or charge a fee that is not legal (i.e. charging to much for PPT's at the gun show), then your just pushing future sales out the door. Remember that it is your business, and you can run it the way you want. But it's our money, and we can spend it where we want. The rule of 18 will always come back and bite you, and theres is always the internet if we don't want to buy from you!

OP, please post name of FFL, so that i can go out of my way to not shop there, and tell everyone who will listen to do the same.

Cokebottle
05-27-2011, 9:28 PM
I'm tired of hearing this crap "look at it from the FFL's side"
Then open your own business and tie up inventory and labor processing sales for prohibited persons.
First of all, it's not OUR fault that the $25 DROS goes straight to DOJ, and they only get $5. I know that doesn't cover the cost of filing for them, BUT that is the DOJ screwing them.....NOT US!!!!!! They don't like the way the state set up the fee schedule? Get a lawyer and sue them to make them change it.
But it IS the fault of some people who go in to try to buy a gun when they are, or may be prohibited.
Then on top of it this FFL states that this is a LAW? You want to be honest and state that it's your policy, then fine, but to outright lie? Screw you FFL! All future sales lost, be cause your dirty and underhanded. Way to go!
On this, I'm with you 100%. That was a BS line to feed them.
OP, please post name of FFL, so that i can go out of my way to not shop there, and tell everyone who will listen to do the same.
I've already mentioned that Turner's does this... and they obviously aren't the only one.
I have a feeling that most shops have some kind of fee for canceled/rejected sales. Turner's happens to be a percentage of the price, other shops may be a flat fee.

Merc1138
05-27-2011, 9:35 PM
Umm, almost every shop I've been to has some sort of fee or percentage they keep for cancellations for whatever reason during the 10 day waiting period. That's pretty normal.

Now lying and claiming it's state law is BS. Why in the hell does no one ever bother to post what shop it is when they tell us how a shop is somehow lying or trying to screw them? Within the first 2-3 replies someone always asks what shop it is anyway, just tell people and get that over with.

Bruce
05-27-2011, 10:45 PM
OP, please post name of FFL, so that i can go out of my way to not shop there, and tell everyone who will listen to do the same.

When I find out, I'll pass it along. My friend wasn't sure.

Arisaka
05-27-2011, 10:48 PM
Cokebottle nailed it.

Paul S
05-27-2011, 11:16 PM
When I find out, I'll pass it along.
My friend wasn't sure.


Your buddy doesn't know what gun shop he was preparing to deal with?
Things that make you go hmmm!

And the "its the law" bogus claim...absolute fail.

JeffM
05-27-2011, 11:21 PM
PRK Arms in Fresno has it posted: "90% restocking fee for failed background checks."

It seems to be oriented at discouraging dirtbags from trying to buy guns.

PFEC is a good idea.

arsilva32
05-28-2011, 12:42 AM
PRK Arms in Fresno has it posted: "90% restocking fee for failed background checks."

It seems to be oriented at discouraging dirtbags from trying to buy guns.

PFEC is a good idea.


um 90% is absolutely ridiculous,that kind of money they would jump for joy every time someone was rejected.selling the gun for 2 times what the original price was.i don't care what anyone says, it does not cost them even close to that amount for a rejected sale.

not all rejected persons are dirtbags ,there are a great number denial's due to mistakes / errors on the DOJ's end. problems like these most of the time will run over the dros time limit to rectify.

( PFEC is a good idea ) agreed

Bruce
05-28-2011, 12:49 AM
Your buddy doesn't know what gun shop he was preparing to deal with?
Things that make you go hmmm!



Friend's brother is the purchaser. I'm quite sure the brother knows which store, and, as soon as he tells him, so will my friend. After that, my friend will tell me, and I will know. Then I can tell you and any one else who is interested.

m1aowner
05-28-2011, 1:39 AM
Tell him to tell his brother he better start liking black powder.

stix213
05-28-2011, 2:54 AM
um 90% is absolutely ridiculous,that kind of money they would jump for joy every time someone was rejected.selling the gun for 2 times what the original price was.i don't care what anyone says, it does not cost them even close to that amount for a rejected sale.

not all rejected persons are dirtbags ,there are a great number denial's due to mistakes / errors on the DOJ's end. problems like these most of the time will run over the dros time limit to rectify.

( PFEC is a good idea ) agreed

Problems that are mistakes can get rectified and you may still end up with your gun in the end. If its a legitimate issue, you can generally work it out with the FFL as you get the situation corrected, and end up paying another DROS and maybe a storage fee. For prohibited people with either a criminal or mental health history, stop wasting the FFL's time. Its not like you would forget about that DV conviction, felony, or being thrown in the funny farm for trying to kill yourself that one time. If you're not sure, then how about waiting to buy the gun until you find out?

When you make a purchase, the FFL is often going to use your money to buy a replacement for inventory. Then cause you "forgot" about your own past, the FFL is supposed to now get stuck with 2 of the same gun, out a considerable amount of time helping you and dealing with the paperwork, and on top of that no sale?

I'm surprised FFL policies aren't to just tell them to go pound sand. Its not as if they're going to be a repeat customer.

RustyMacHine
05-28-2011, 6:12 AM
Isn't a denied DROS just that? Out the money the buyer paid for the DROS. But taking the deposit, isn't that illegal? (minus any contractual fees, etc.?)

Some stores keep 10% of the amount of the firearm for restocking fee and the hassle, plus the DROS fee.
The DOJ FEC cost $20 and takes a month or less for their reply. Not 15 mins. but it'll save you a bunch.

redneckshootist
05-28-2011, 6:32 AM
um 90% is absolutely ridiculous,that kind of money they would jump for joy every time someone was rejected.selling the gun for 2 times what the original price was.i don't care what anyone says, it does not cost them even close to that amount for a rejected sale.

not all rejected persons are dirtbags ,there are a great number denial's due to mistakes / errors on the DOJ's end. problems like these most of the time will run over the dros time limit to rectify.

( PFEC is a good idea ) agreed

Im fine with that, we here charge a restocking fee too and its posted. Its been explained why many times. Plus most FFL's have employees they have to pay too. We have a non-refundable 50% deposit required on every gun. That discourages most people who get denied. In my shop if a denied dros can be worked out you still get your gun, dmv rejects we just tell them to get a state id and call us when you fix it, we will hold on to your gun. Ive had felony style rejects later get approved after doj corrected thier mistakes. Most ffls will work with ya if denial is a mistake.

FatalKitty
05-28-2011, 7:26 AM
Problems that are mistakes can get rectified and you may still end up with your gun in the end. If its a legitimate issue, you can generally work it out with the FFL as you get the situation corrected, and end up paying another DROS and maybe a storage fee. For prohibited people with either a criminal or mental health history, stop wasting the FFL's time. Its not like you would forget about that DV conviction, felony, or being thrown in the funny farm for trying to kill yourself that one time. If you're not sure, then how about waiting to buy the gun until you find out?

When you make a purchase, the FFL is often going to use your money to buy a replacement for inventory. Then cause you "forgot" about your own past, the FFL is supposed to now get stuck with 2 of the same gun, out a considerable amount of time helping you and dealing with the paperwork, and on top of that no sale?

I'm surprised FFL policies aren't to just tell them to go pound sand. Its not as if they're going to be a repeat customer.

indeed.

MrClamperSir
05-28-2011, 7:40 AM
Friend's brother is the purchaser. I'm quite sure the brother knows which store, and, as soon as he tells him, so will my friend. After that, my friend will tell me, and I will know. Then I can tell you and any one else who is interested.

Someone should verify the claim thatís being made, about someone who told me to tell you so you can tell someone else that I heard something, before this FFL gets roasted for something that may or may not have been said.

r3dn3ck
05-28-2011, 7:48 AM
I call it agreed to theft. Nothing less. Any restocking fee is BS. You get into the business to sell an item... you don't see target charging me 30 bucks to return a sweater or a baby stroller, why should a gun shop charge me 300 for something that's just as likely to be a screwup on the part of the state or federal govt as it is to be actually my fault.

I won't buy from a shop with an excessive restocking fee. 25 bucks is fine, nobody wants to give you 25 bucks for nothing. You don't have to steal 300 bucks to net the same effect. I know, I used to do work at a gun shop. Nobody ever tried to buy a gun just to cancel it and we only had a 25 dollar restock fee to keep the shop-arounds from cancelling if they found one for 10 bucks less.

BigDogatPlay
05-28-2011, 7:52 AM
I always thought a 5150 or domestic screwed the pooch for life as far as firearms were concerned.My friend says that the HSC book says after five years a 5150 is okay, and ten years for domestic violence. What do I tell him?

An involuntary commitment under WIC 5150 is a five year exclusion. Being found by medical professionals as needing to be held longer than the 72 hour maximum allowed under WIC 5150, as per WIC 5250, is a lifetime exclusion.

Any misdemeanor conviction with "domestic violence" associated with it is a lifetime exclusion under federal law. A number of other misdemeanors are 10 year exclusions under state law.

Any felony conviction, no matter what the crime was, carries a lifetime exclusion under state and federal law.

Much more here (http://www.gunlaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=33&Itemid=28).

Cokebottle
05-28-2011, 12:38 PM
not all rejected persons are dirtbags ,there are a great number denial's due to mistakes / errors on the DOJ's end. problems like these most of the time will run over the dros time limit to rectify.
And 90% of the time, it is something that merely causes a delay, not a denial. Unpaid tickets and other things that legally should not cause a hold but apparently do... or mistaken identity issues (the reason I put my SSN on the DROS).
Ya, if it takes longer than 30 days to get it resolved, they're out another $25 to re-dros.

Most times a flat-out denial is issued, the buyer either knew or should have known. The most common cause of an honest "I didn't know" would be because of Lautenberg... a LOT of people plea bargained felony DV charges down to misdo on the advice of their public defender simply because the misdo conviction did not impact gun and voting rights.

Along comes Lautenberg with what IMHO, should be tossed by the SCOTUS under ex-post-facto, and retroactively makes every person convicted of misdo DV a prohibited person.

rt66paul
05-28-2011, 1:00 PM
use a credit card(american express is best for this). If you are denied, just tell Amex that you want to contest the charges. They almost always(even unethically for the merchant) find in the customers' favor.

Bruce
05-28-2011, 1:32 PM
My friend called me and the "It's state law" part was his misunderstanding of what his brother said. The store in question is Turner's in Torrance. At this point no money has changed hands, but the clerk said they'd keep $247 if the DROS failed.
I sent him the link to the DOJ form. And I thank you all for the help.

FF/EMT Nick
05-28-2011, 2:06 PM
My friend called me and the "It's state law" part was his misunderstanding of what his brother said. The store in question is Turner's in Torrance. At this point no money has changed hands, but the clerk said they'd keep $247 if the DROS failed.
I sent him the link to the DOJ form. And I thank you all for the help.

Meh, nothing lost then. I don't shop at "Turders" any way. Tell your brothers friend, or whoever he is, to go ahead and do a PFEC. That will let him know where he stands.

CSACANNONEER
05-28-2011, 2:11 PM
My friend called me and the "It's state law" part was his misunderstanding of what his brother said. The store in question is Turner's in Torrance. At this point no money has changed hands, but the clerk said they'd keep $247 if the DROS failed.
I sent him the link to the DOJ form. And I thank you all for the help.

THen, the store is doing nothing wrong. They are very upfront about their policy and that's a plus for them. Of course, the ungodly restocking fee is a bit extreme but, at least they are not trying to hide it. I'd still go somewhere else though.

Cokebottle
05-28-2011, 2:22 PM
THen, the store is doing nothing wrong. They are very upfront about their policy and that's a plus for them. Of course, the ungodly restocking fee is a bit extreme but, at least they are not trying to hide it. I'd still go somewhere else though.
Yup... that's Turner's corporate policy.

The fee is a percentage of the cost of the gun. I'd have to look back at all of my receipts to confirm, but IIRC, the "non-refundable" portion of the Heritage 9-shot (a smidge over $300 OTD) was around $150, the Glock and Beretta were closer to $300, and the SP101 was over $200.

tenpercentfirearms
05-29-2011, 6:43 AM
I like the 90% restocking fee on denials. I have a $1000 my cost Weatherby magnum at my shop right now because a guy got denied. I just charged him $50 plus the $25 for DROS. I still have a $1000 gun sitting around doing nothing with its life.

I am not sure why anyone in this thread would be worried about a 90% denial fee. You aren't going to get denied and the people who do should know better.

As long as the fees are up front as was at Turner's then the consumer has a choice. Risk it or use the PFEC instead.

As tends to happen on Calguns people get offended by other people's potential funds loss. All this ranting about how it is unjust and that dealer is wrong and on and on and on. Turns out the dealer never said that and the OP was told incorrectly.

Ooops.

Trigger42
05-29-2011, 7:08 AM
Why buy a gun if you are unsure if you will pass DROS? There is a form you can mail to CADOJ requesting if you can indeed own a firearm. I believe its about $25.

choprzrul
05-29-2011, 8:54 AM
I am a small business owner, so I can understand the dealer's point of view on getting left hanging.

I think that giving the customer options would be fair to both parties:

1. 10% restocking fee if you have a PFEC from the last 90 days in hand when ordering. The shows due dilligence on the customer's part and willingness to go out of their way to ensure a smooth transaction. This significantly reduces the shop's risk profile and is reflected in the percentage.

2. 75% restocking fee if no PFEC is in hand. People who are very confident or very stupid will choose this option. Either way, the shop's risk profile is mitigated.

3. 0% restocking fee if you have a receipt showing a purchase from your store in the last 6 months. Customer loyalty is priceless and should be rewarded.


YMMV, but I think that this leaves very little for someone to complain about.

.

Lostsheep
05-29-2011, 9:44 AM
As long as the fees are up front as was at Turner's then the consumer has a choice. Risk it or use the PFEC instead.

As tends to happen on Calguns people get offended by other people's potential funds loss. All this ranting about how it is unjust and that dealer is wrong and on and on and on. Turns out the dealer never said that and the OP was told incorrectly.

Ooops.

I agree that as long as everything is up front, then if the consumer doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere. But guess what, I am one of those stubborn consumers and I WILL TAKE my money where I believe it is appreciated. A vendor who is willing to work with me and not treat me like I am interupting their day, gets my business. I am very unhappy (not just gun stores) with the state of customer service here in California. It has really gone down hill.

rant over

Cokebottle
05-29-2011, 11:52 AM
I am very unhappy (not just gun stores) with the state of customer service here in California. It has really gone down hill.
Goes both ways.

I haven't worked retail since the late 80s, but the lack of consideration and disrespect for people in general that has grown in society has not excluded customers' treatment of retail employees.

And it is proudly shared here by Calgunners....
Buy a gun lock from Wal Mart, go pick up your gun, then take the lock back for a refund.
Buy a compressor from Home Depot, then take it back, etc....

Customers act like spoiled brats and they yell and scream and stomp their feet when they don't get what they want. It would be NICE if they would simply vote with their feet... that would get the message across to the employees, but they don't. They make a scene, and they make it easy enough for the employee to justify whatever he may be doing badly by saying "Ehh, that guy was just an a-hole, but he'll be back after he cools off because he can't get xyz cheaper anywhere else"

Treat people like crap, expect to be treated like crap. The unfortunate issue with retail is that even though you may not be an a-hole, the employee that you are talking to has already dealt with dozens of people before you. Human beings rarely have the skills to deal with the attitudes of modern customers, and then simply "turn off" their frustration when the guy goes out the door. That stress and frustration is going to impact the next 10 customers.

Throw two more idiots into that mix of 10, and the third idiot just may feel the full brunt of the employee's frustration from the last 3 idiots.
Patience wears thin. Throw in a hot day with poorly functioning AC, a manager that's always riding your butt, a wife complaining that you aren't making enough money... it adds up and I'm glad I'm out of retail.

santacruzstefan
05-29-2011, 12:20 PM
I got a PFEC a few years ago, since I wanted to save the embarrassment if I got denied for some misdemeanor on my record, but more importantly save the money from not only DROS, but the restocking fee. I think every shop has this, at least that I've seen. PFEC came back clear, but it took perhaps 3 months for them to process it so keep that in mind.

Lostsheep
05-29-2011, 12:33 PM
Goes both ways.

I haven't worked retail since the late 80s, but the lack of consideration and disrespect for people in general that has grown in society has not excluded customers' treatment of retail employees.

And it is proudly shared here by Calgunners....
Buy a gun lock from Wal Mart, go pick up your gun, then take the lock back for a refund.
Buy a compressor from Home Depot, then take it back, etc....

Customers act like spoiled brats and they yell and scream and stomp their feet when they don't get what they want. It would be NICE if they would simply vote with their feet... that would get the message across to the employees, but they don't. They make a scene, and they make it easy enough for the employee to justify whatever he may be doing badly by saying "Ehh, that guy was just an a-hole, but he'll be back after he cools off because he can't get xyz cheaper anywhere else"

Treat people like crap, expect to be treated like crap. The unfortunate issue with retail is that even though you may not be an a-hole, the employee that you are talking to has already dealt with dozens of people before you. Human beings rarely have the skills to deal with the attitudes of modern customers, and then simply "turn off" their frustration when the guy goes out the door. That stress and frustration is going to impact the next 10 customers.

Throw two more idiots into that mix of 10, and the third idiot just may feel the full brunt of the employee's frustration from the last 3 idiots.
Patience wears thin. Throw in a hot day with poorly functioning AC, a manager that's always riding your butt, a wife complaining that you aren't making enough money... it adds up and I'm glad I'm out of retail.


You are absolutely correct on most counts here. I do try and treat everyone with respect but I am unsympathetic with poor customer service due to another customers attitude.

I will use my power as a consumer to reward those businesses who conduct themselves in a manner that I approve of.

FWIW, I am very glad I don't have to deal with the public at my job.

rt66paul
05-30-2011, 2:33 PM
I am a small business owner, so I can understand the dealer's point of view on getting left hanging.

I think that giving the customer options would be fair to both parties:

1. 10% restocking fee if you have a PFEC from the last 90 days in hand when ordering. The shows due dilligence on the customer's part and willingness to go out of their way to ensure a smooth transaction. This significantly reduces the shop's risk profile and is reflected in the percentage.

2. 75% restocking fee if no PFEC is in hand. People who are very confident or very stupid will choose this option. Either way, the shop's risk profile is mitigated.

3. 0% restocking fee if you have a receipt showing a purchase from your store in the last 6 months. Customer loyalty is priceless and should be rewarded.


YMMV, but I think that this leaves very little for someone to complain about.

.

I am a small business owner also and I disagree. We are talking about guns that are in stock at the store(or normally are). There is no reason for someone going through this if they thought something was wrong, so they should not be penalized for it. The customer should cover the cost of the DROS and any other other fee they get, but for items in stock and those that never leave the store, there is no real loss.

The firearm can still be sold as new and should be expected to sell since it is a normally stocked item.

As far as used guns go, they are all on consignment and no costs(other than licensing fees and normal operating expenses(that would still have to be paid)

If the "customer" voluntarily backs out of the deal, then a 10% restocking fee is in order + any other costs.

packnrat
05-31-2011, 2:22 AM
My friend called me and the "It's state law" part was his misunderstanding of what his brother said. The store in question is Turner's in Torrance. At this point no money has changed hands, but the clerk said they'd keep $247 if the DROS failed.
I sent him the link to the DOJ form. And I thank you all for the help.

from ALL of the bad press i have read about "turners" gun shop, glad there is not one around here.

.

Merc1138
05-31-2011, 2:57 AM
Goes both ways.

I haven't worked retail since the late 80s, but the lack of consideration and disrespect for people in general that has grown in society has not excluded customers' treatment of retail employees.

And it is proudly shared here by Calgunners....
Buy a gun lock from Wal Mart, go pick up your gun, then take the lock back for a refund.
Buy a compressor from Home Depot, then take it back, etc....

Customers act like spoiled brats and they yell and scream and stomp their feet when they don't get what they want. It would be NICE if they would simply vote with their feet... that would get the message across to the employees, but they don't. They make a scene, and they make it easy enough for the employee to justify whatever he may be doing badly by saying "Ehh, that guy was just an a-hole, but he'll be back after he cools off because he can't get xyz cheaper anywhere else"

Treat people like crap, expect to be treated like crap. The unfortunate issue with retail is that even though you may not be an a-hole, the employee that you are talking to has already dealt with dozens of people before you. Human beings rarely have the skills to deal with the attitudes of modern customers, and then simply "turn off" their frustration when the guy goes out the door. That stress and frustration is going to impact the next 10 customers.

Throw two more idiots into that mix of 10, and the third idiot just may feel the full brunt of the employee's frustration from the last 3 idiots.
Patience wears thin. Throw in a hot day with poorly functioning AC, a manager that's always riding your butt, a wife complaining that you aren't making enough money... it adds up and I'm glad I'm out of retail.

OMG, I was so happy when I got out of retail. For every "normal" customer there were at least 2 complete a-holes. "The customer is always right" umm, no. The customer is usually wrong these days.

I sold a man a laptop computer, the LCD had a couple dead pixels and he wanted to exchange it, no problem. Then he comes back 2 days later claiming that the original one had better color fidelity or something(same model...) so we exchanged it again. The next day he's back wanting us to exchange another brand new $2500 laptop because this new one still doesn't have the same "color fidelity". He accuses us of some sort of conspiracy because we couldn't pull the original laptop from the back(already sent it back to the manufacturer) and starts crying(this is a grown man) and screaming with tears running down his face about how we're just trying to screw the little guy because we won't open 5 brand new laptops from inventory let him take them outside to his van and power them all on so he can compare the color of the screens in his own little lighting environment.

At least once a day one of the salesmen got cussed out when politely asking someone to remove their purse dog from the display tables.

Multiple times a day someone would throw a fit because they wanted to return a printer with all of the ink/toner used up and couldn't understand why we were charging them for it(even though they were told up front and in writing, but they just didn't need the printer anymore so it wasn't even a matter of exchanging it). Or the people who would buy a projector, put 200 hours on the bulb and wonder why they're being charged $300 for a replacement "What do you mean a bulb is a consumable item?". Usually these were the people who wanted to "rent" a projector for a party to watch a sports game or something and then kept using it for a couple weeks.

Then of course you have the manager breathing down your neck about sales numbers and return rates(like we could control whether or not someone was going to buy a $1500 projector just to return it a week later), customers throwing tantrums accusing you of all kinds of crap and even threatening to call the police. Keep in mind that whenever these a-hole customers appear, the ordeal usually isn't over quickly. So after you've had a customer flailing their arms around and accusing you of "raping their wallet with corporate greed" at the top of their lungs for 45 minutes, it's kind of hard to fake a smile and deal with the next person immediately. Put up with that for 9-10 hours a day, go home and smoke an entire pack of cigarettes and down a 12 pack of beer, wake up, shower, put another suit on and do it again.

I had similar experiences back when I worked in fast food in highschool. The amount of BS that you have to put up with during the day dealing with the public is a nightmare. When I worked for a small computer service shop, the number of idiots wasn't quite as bad as regular retail, but I think that had something to do with most of our customers being business customers, so they were a lot less likely to throw tantrums.

Maybe it's a little better in the firearm industry(something about an armed society being a polite society) but these problematic customers still happen. People even post on calguns about their "horrible" experiences with some company's customer service department and on occasion that customer is completely in the wrong(someone being mad because a manufacturer didn't have a realtime inventory of gun shops because he wanted a product they quit making months ago comes to mind).

Cokebottle
05-31-2011, 5:17 PM
At least once a day one of the salesmen got cussed out when politely asking someone to remove their purse dog from the display tables.
I a so glad I bugged out of retail 10 years before this whole "purse rat" craze got going.

WTH started it and WTF makes people think "No pets allowed except seeing-eye dogs" does not apply to them?
A friend that is still in retail said "Oh, all they have to say is 'It's a service animal' and under ADA, I'm not allowed to ask what service it provides"

Munk
05-31-2011, 5:30 PM
I a so glad I bugged out of retail 10 years before this whole "purse rat" craze got going.

WTH started it and WTF makes people think "No pets allowed except seeing-eye dogs" does not apply to them?
A friend that is still in retail said "Oh, all they have to say is 'It's a service animal' and under ADA, I'm not allowed to ask what service it provides"

Unfortunately this is true. The ADA grants no investigative powers to store owners to ensure that they aren't being BSed. Questioning someone's disability is akin to a violation of their privacy.

SVT-40
05-31-2011, 5:46 PM
OMG, I was so happy when I got out of retail. For every "normal" customer there were at least 2 complete a-holes. "The customer is always right" umm, no. The customer is usually wrong these days.

I sold a man a laptop computer, the LCD had a couple dead pixels and he wanted to exchange it, no problem. Then he comes back 2 days later claiming that the original one had better color fidelity or something(same model...) so we exchanged it again. The next day he's back wanting us to exchange another brand new $2500 laptop because this new one still doesn't have the same "color fidelity". He accuses us of some sort of conspiracy because we couldn't pull the original laptop from the back(already sent it back to the manufacturer) and starts crying(this is a grown man) and screaming with tears running down his face about how we're just trying to screw the little guy because we won't open 5 brand new laptops from inventory let him take them outside to his van and power them all on so he can compare the color of the screens in his own little lighting environment.

At least once a day one of the salesmen got cussed out when politely asking someone to remove their purse dog from the display tables.

Multiple times a day someone would throw a fit because they wanted to return a printer with all of the ink/toner used up and couldn't understand why we were charging them for it(even though they were told up front and in writing, but they just didn't need the printer anymore so it wasn't even a matter of exchanging it). Or the people who would buy a projector, put 200 hours on the bulb and wonder why they're being charged $300 for a replacement "What do you mean a bulb is a consumable item?". Usually these were the people who wanted to "rent" a projector for a party to watch a sports game or something and then kept using it for a couple weeks.

Then of course you have the manager breathing down your neck about sales numbers and return rates(like we could control whether or not someone was going to buy a $1500 projector just to return it a week later), customers throwing tantrums accusing you of all kinds of crap and even threatening to call the police. Keep in mind that whenever these a-hole customers appear, the ordeal usually isn't over quickly. So after you've had a customer flailing their arms around and accusing you of "raping their wallet with corporate greed" at the top of their lungs for 45 minutes, it's kind of hard to fake a smile and deal with the next person immediately. Put up with that for 9-10 hours a day, go home and smoke an entire pack of cigarettes and down a 12 pack of beer, wake up, shower, put another suit on and do it again.

I had similar experiences back when I worked in fast food in highschool. The amount of BS that you have to put up with during the day dealing with the public is a nightmare. When I worked for a small computer service shop, the number of idiots wasn't quite as bad as regular retail, but I think that had something to do with most of our customers being business customers, so they were a lot less likely to throw tantrums.

Maybe it's a little better in the firearm industry(something about an armed society being a polite society) but these problematic customers still happen. People even post on calguns about their "horrible" experiences with some company's customer service department and on occasion that customer is completely in the wrong(someone being mad because a manufacturer didn't have a realtime inventory of gun shops because he wanted a product they quit making months ago comes to mind).

Amen.

Merc1138
05-31-2011, 6:13 PM
Don't get me wrong about my retail rant. I'm not excusing serious customer service screwups that do really happen. Merely pointing out that the customer simply isn't always right, and the self righteous deserving everything attitude that some customers have can indeed ruin a salespersons day(they are people afterall) and end up souring everyone else's shopping experience.

That said, I certainly don't regret my time spent in retail(learned a lot about retail, and people), and I have an abundance of idiotically funny stories. Coworker that got written up for ignoring customers because he was caught reading playboy in the store in front of customers. Idiot coworker cutting very very large bodybuilding lady on the freeway driving to work who had the lady chase him into the store threatening to beat him within an inch of his life, crazy coworker who offended a customer by failing at making smalltalk "that's a nice chin you have today sir", crazy coworker that got mad at a customer and walked off leaving me stuck with an easy sale earning $200 in commission for 5 minutes of my time. Did I mention that those were all actually about the same guy? Then there's the imagery I still can't get out of my head of customers trampling eachother with shopping carts like morons when we let them in the doors on the morning of a Black Friday sale. Good lord, I could write volumes and only have it cover a year.

edit: Oh, I almost forgot the funniest example of a "bad customer". Had a guy still in the store 30 minutes after closing(he had already been in the store for almost an hour prior staring at these laptops) because he couldn't pick which one he wanted out of two(to be honest they were literally the same spec, screen, everything just different make). What finally got him to make up his mind was when my supervisor saw me about to strangle him, so he walks over and asks the guy what the problem is, and then tells the customer that one laptop tasted better than the other. The customer immediately made up his mind at that point, pulled out his creditcard and then we sent him on his way(yes, he chose the tastier laptop).

Cokebottle
05-31-2011, 6:41 PM
Amen.
So you just do it for the love ;)

I know I would... if I were independently wealthy and wanted to make a little bit lose a lot of money :D

There's a bunch of things I'd like to give a shot at making a business out of, but unfortunately for me, seems like any time I take something that I love doing and make it something I have to do, it turns into something I hate doing.
Used to be a big electronics hobbyist. Other than sticking wires together on the motorcycle, I haven't picked up a soldering iron at home in almost 20 years.

SVT-40
05-31-2011, 9:25 PM
So you just do it for the love ;)

I know I would... if I were independently wealthy and wanted to make a little bit lose a lot of money :D

There's a bunch of things I'd like to give a shot at making a business out of, but unfortunately for me, seems like any time I take something that I love doing and make it something I have to do, it turns into something I hate doing.
Used to be a big electronics hobbyist. Other than sticking wires together on the motorcycle, I haven't picked up a soldering iron at home in almost 20 years.

Right on.

I do it because I get to work when I want to. I can play with the toys and get some great deals. :D

AKA a hobby job.

It pays to be retired!!

Cokebottle
06-01-2011, 4:30 PM
It pays to be retired!!
Absolutely.

When I retire, I'll probably drop off an application to help you out and make a few extra bucks to pay for ammo ;)