PDA

View Full Version : California has specifically banned all Saiga brand firearms?: Vendor reconsidering


DocClark340
05-26-2011, 8:34 PM
I received this response from J&G Sales in AZ when I inquired about a Saiga 7.62X39 Sporter Rifle, TGI Import.

"Sir,
Unfortunately California has specifically banned all Saiga brand firearms. Sorry.

J&G Sales
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 2:07 PM"

Dose anyone have any information on this?

:confused::eek::eek::eek::confused:

goodlookin1
05-26-2011, 8:35 PM
FUD

Baconator
05-26-2011, 8:36 PM
I would ask for something in writing from the DOJ.

Eastbayguy
05-26-2011, 8:36 PM
Order Saiga from DDSranch.com

RobGR
05-26-2011, 8:37 PM
News to me.... where the hell did they come up with that? Oh well, someone else would love your business.

cmace22
05-26-2011, 8:38 PM
These people dont have a problem selling here. Ive hear no such thing and have no Idea why this would be true.

http://shop.peachstateguns.com/category.sc;jsessionid=C454589818B240B30F7EB27A920 8D05A.qscstrfrnt04?categoryId=158

TNP'R
05-26-2011, 8:42 PM
So if this was true would I be a felon since I own one?

Bigtwin
05-26-2011, 8:46 PM
Simply FUD/ wrong info!
J&G are out in lala land if your post is true!

Saiga rifles and shotguns are for sale from FFL's localy!

Librarian
05-26-2011, 9:04 PM
California has done no such thing.

FUD.

762.DEFENSE
05-26-2011, 9:08 PM
Bud's told me that like a year ago, typical FUD.

NorCalAthlete
05-26-2011, 9:29 PM
Call em back and tell them they're flat out wrong and should give you a discount for proving it to them (have evidence ready, IE a CA dealership currently selling them. For example, Valkyrie Arms in Milpitas I believe stocks and sells them). Tell them they should knock off at least 10%-15% for the future business they'll be doing with CA customers now that they can be assured it's perfectly legal to sell to CA.

iskra31
05-26-2011, 9:40 PM
They did ban Saigas, but only the ones from Kalashnikov USA, not from Russian American Armory or any other company.

Super Spy
05-26-2011, 9:45 PM
Cool, makes my Saiga worth more money.

bwiese
05-26-2011, 9:55 PM
Wrong/FUD/unclear.

The "Kasler list" (11 CCR 5499) bans only one specific Saiga entity, the rifle from Kalashnikov USA.

This entry can only ban one specific item anyway, due to Harrott-requiredspecificity and required lack of "series" status.
[Harrott generally prohibits "series" concept without formal detailed listing of individual series elements by make/model. Were that prohibited Saiga entity in the to refer to multiple different gun make/models, it would be a "series" - which can't happen. The only permitted 'series' are "AR15 series" and "AK47 series", and members of these series generally must be declared individually by make and model - those makes/models forming the Kasler list.]

DOJ Firearms also understands this in the same fashion as we do. In Dec 2005 - when they were thinking about 'listing' various 'off-list' guns - the DOJ created an internal memo (under auspices of "the Ferranto Commission") proposing various guns to be added to the Kasler list:
http://www.calgunlaws.com/Docs/ASSAULT%20WEAPONS/Articles/commision%20changes.pdf Among various other off-list guns, they proposed adding the "EAA Saiga" - clearly demonstrating DOJ understood that that particular Saiga variant was not 'listed' at the time.

Do note that this was a proposal and it did NOT go thru: the Kasler list remained unchanged since its inception in fall of 2000. Since the advent of summer 2006's AB2728 legislation (becoming active Jan 1, 2007), both "lists" (Roberti-Roos and Kasler) of banned-by-name AWs have been frozen and cannot be updated.

In 2006, an individual in San Jose underwent some drama with two RAAC Saigas, against the San Jose PD and Santa Clara County DA's office. The DA's office tried to muscle an AW conviction and suppress crime lab information, but that fell apart due to an attorney with fortitude. I had a minor role in helping her out clarifying details and Harrott matters, etc. with Don Kilmer coming in to help for the final sweep. The individual ended up with a short term prohibition just to get out of the situation and attend to larger family issues, and had to dispose of the guns [which moved from the police lockup to a local FFL]. Gene Hoffman and I bought them, with one going as a raffle prize at a NRA+CRPA miniconvention in 2008, and another one retained by me for future fundraising, etc. fun.

One DOJ inspector (not Iggy, not Dana...) did try to cause minor trouble in 2007 in a SoCal gunshop relating to an RAAC Saiga, but a proposed conference call between various pre-CGF "interested parties" and his DOJ management chain caused him to back off that stance.

Since then, there must have been thousands upon thousands of RAAC (Russian-American Arms Co.) Saigas sold within CA at gunshops and gunshows, all under CA DOJ inspection/audit. It would not surprise me if 50,000 of all RAAC Saiga caliber variants have been sold in CA since then.

straykiller
05-26-2011, 10:45 PM
So if this was true would I be a felon since I own one?

so would i

MrPlink
05-26-2011, 11:15 PM
JG has always been a buncha tools when it comes to this stuff

DanDaDude102
05-27-2011, 2:21 AM
They did ban Saigas, but only the ones from Kalashnikov USA, not from Russian American Armory or any other company.

This is correct and the reason for the fud confusion

Ryan in SD
05-27-2011, 4:02 AM
What idiots. I think tomorrow Im going to write a kind letter.

robcoe
05-27-2011, 4:30 AM
I received this response from J&G Sales in AZ when I inquired about a Saiga 7.62X39 Sporter Rifle, TGI Import.

"Sir,
Unfortunately California has specifically banned all Saiga brand firearms. Sorry.

J&G Sales
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 2:07 PM"

Dose anyone have any information on this?

:confused::eek::eek::eek::confused:

I usualy refer to this as a a person suffering from recto-cranial inversion

morfeeis
05-27-2011, 6:04 AM
They did ban Saigas, but only the ones from Kalashnikov USA, not from Russian American Armory or any other company.
wasn't that in all the US and not just CA?

daveinwoodland
05-27-2011, 6:09 AM
I usualy refer to this as a a person suffering from recto-cranial inversion
You mean?:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l489/daveinwoodland/HeadUpAss_answer_9_xlarge.jpg

robcoe
05-27-2011, 6:42 AM
You mean?:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l489/daveinwoodland/HeadUpAss_answer_9_xlarge.jpg

exactly

dirtyJ
05-27-2011, 6:50 AM
Writing a letter/calling/etc will not help with J&G, even if you're with an 07. Good group of guys, as long as you're not from CA. They told a friend of mine that the AK action was banned in CA. Meh, they're a big seller, but there are hundreds of others just as big and some in CA that you could give your money to instead.

DocClark340
05-27-2011, 7:14 AM
Writing a letter/calling/etc will not help with J&G, even if you're with an 07. Good group of guys, as long as you're not from CA. They told a friend of mine that the AK action was banned in CA. Meh, they're a big seller, but there are hundreds of others just as big and some in CA that you could give your money to instead.
I have gotten crap form J&G before (I have a C&R). I know there are other companys out there that will take my money.

:38::iamwithstupid::smash:
:beatdeadhorse5:

iskra31
05-27-2011, 8:05 AM
wasn't that in all the US and not just CA?

Yeah I think it was part of the Federal ban list. Roberti-Roos AW List?

skylovia
05-27-2011, 9:22 AM
Henderson Defense, Peach State Guns, Atlantic Firearms. All have a good relationship with Californians. I have personally used Henderson Defense and got excellent customer service.

EBR Works
05-27-2011, 4:03 PM
My email conversation with J&G (newest at top). The ball is in their court.





On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:01 PM, Michael wrote:

Would your legal advisor consider talking to one of the attorneys from the CalGuns Foundation? Thanks.


Michael

EBR Works - Type 07 FFL
805-405-9385 Voice
805-435-8009 Fax
info@ebrworks.com
www.ebrworks.com


From: jgsales.info@gmail.com [mailto:jgsales.info@gmail.com] On Behalf Of J and G Sales
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 4:54 PM
To: Michael
Subject: Re: Inquiry from J&G Sales

Sir,
Thank you, however J&G Sales does have legal advisers to attempt to follow the laws of every state we deal with.

We are also aware of the California court ruling finding the current California firearm laws unconstitutional, however the legislature has not yet changed them so we must abide by them until they do.
J&G Sales

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Michael wrote:

Sadly, the Cali DOJ has refused to update their website in the past 5+ years, so a great deal of the information there is not current. It’s unfortunate that the DOJ continues to fail in their obligation to keep the public educated about current law. They do this intentionally to create confusion and misinformation. I fully understand your concerns over this issue. If you want I can refer you to one of the attorneys with the CalGuns Foundation that can explain this to you fully. I think that you would agree that it is in the best interests of the firearms community as a whole to help educate dealers so that they can do business here. I’m happy to help if you want.

Best regards,


Michael

EBR Works - Type 07 FFL
805-405-9385 Voice
805-435-8009 Fax
info@ebrworks.com
www.ebrworks.com





From: jgsales.info@gmail.com [mailto:jgsales.info@gmail.com] On Behalf Of J and G Sales
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 4:02 PM
To: Michael
Subject: Re: Inquiry from J&G Sales

Sir,
We do understand the difference. Here is a quote from the law:
This section is declaratory of existing law, as
amended, and a clarification of the law and the
Legislature’s intent, which bans the weapons
enumerated in this section, the weapons included
in the list promulgated by the Attorney
General pursuant to Section 12276.5, and any
other models which are only variations of those
weapons with minor differences, regardless of
the manufacturer.

Please note the bold text. This is on page 14 of the California assault weapons guide. Thank you.
J&G Sales



On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Michael wrote:

No problem. I thought you might want to nip this in the bud since CalGuns has a tremendous influence on California buyers.

So, you guys understand the difference between the RAA Saigas which are legal in California and the Kalashnikov USA Saigas that are not, right? You are missing out on sales if you refuse to sell the RAA guns to the poor unfortunates here in California that have to deal with our liberal reps in state government.

BTW, I’m an 07 FFL and sell/own them here without issue.

Thanks!

Michael

EBR Works - Type 07 FFL
805-405-9385 Voice
805-435-8009 Fax
info@ebrworks.com
www.ebrworks.com



From: jgsales.info@gmail.com [mailto:jgsales.info@gmail.com] On Behalf Of J and G Sales
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 11:55 AM
To: Michael
Subject: Re: Inquiry from J&G Sales

Sir,
Thank you for the link.


On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Michael wrote:

You might want to be aware of this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=437817

EBR Works
05-27-2011, 4:39 PM
Their response. Right people, give them a call please.

Sir,
We would gladly look at any info provided to us concerning the California
law and take it into consideration during future policy changes. Thank you.

J&G Sales
On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 5:00 PM, Michael > wrote:

killshot44
05-27-2011, 5:08 PM
We would gladly look at any info provided to us concerning the California
law and take it into consideration during future policy changes. Thank you.
J&G Sales

Aside from the reference to "future policy changes" (as in, thanks but you ain't getting one now) that seems positive.

Steve1968LS2
05-27-2011, 5:21 PM
There were a bunch hanging on the walls at Riflegear in Fountain Valley.. go figure..

Colt-45
05-27-2011, 5:30 PM
:rofl2::rofl::laugh:

FUD FUD FUD

bwiese
05-27-2011, 7:38 PM
I'll get in touch.

69Mach1
05-27-2011, 7:48 PM
I'll get in touch.

Woot! They are a major dealer that I would love to buy from.

Rob7.62
05-27-2011, 8:28 PM
try riflegear.com $399. and good people. sounds like BS to me

javalos
05-27-2011, 8:49 PM
I received this response from J&G Sales in AZ when I inquired about a Saiga 7.62X39 Sporter Rifle, TGI Import.

"Sir,
Unfortunately California has specifically banned all Saiga brand firearms. Sorry.

J&G Sales
On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 2:07 PM"

Dose anyone have any information on this?

:confused::eek::eek::eek::confused:

FUD

EBR Works
05-27-2011, 9:21 PM
I'll get in touch.

Thanks Bill. Please let us know how it goes.

I would really like to see CalGunners all use logical and persuasive communication along with CGF resources to get misinformed dealers like this educated for our benefit rather than complaining endlessly about how they refuse to ship to us. I'm going to make this a personal priority as time allows.

Blitzburgh
05-28-2011, 8:38 AM
(I have a C&R).

You still owe me dinner for talking you into that. Clown.

Lord Boling
05-28-2011, 9:22 AM
Perhaps those of you bashing them should read what others have said about J&G. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=354216)
It looks like they quite often try their hardest to sell to California while still staying within the restrictive laws.

Thank you EBR Works for talking with them.

I would like to know what info you have to make J&G change their minds? The law they quoted is convincing.

ke6guj
05-28-2011, 11:56 AM
I would like to know what info you have to make J&G change their minds? The law they quoted is convincing.

No it isn't.

CADOJ listed the following rifle "Kalashnikov USA Hunter Rifle/Saiga" . the maker/importer is "kalashnikov USA" and the model is "Hunter Rifle/Saiga". The Saiga that J&G is selling is from a different maker/importer, so it is not a listed make model.

that would be like them banning a Chevrolet Corvette but not banning a Pontiac Corvette.



and yes, they mentioned 12276(f)
This section is declaratory of existing law, as amended, and a clarification of the law and the Legislature's intent which bans the weapons enumerated in this section, the weapons included in the list promulgated by the Attorney General pursuant to Section 12276.5, and any other models which are only variations of those weapons with minor differences, regardless of the manufacturer. The Legislature has defined assault weapons as the types, series, and models listed in this section because it was the most effective way to identify and restrict a specific class of semiautomatic weapons. but as mentioned before , the Harrott decision basically moots that section.

Lord Boling
05-28-2011, 12:05 PM
The law states that the firearms listed are examples and that similar firearms, regardless of manufacturer, are banned as well.

I know it is as ridiculous as your example however that is the case with the whole firearms law.

ke6guj
05-28-2011, 12:22 PM
The law states that the firearms listed are examples and that similar firearms, regardless of manufacturer, are banned as well.


right, but case law moots that section of the PC. Unfortunately the courts do not have the power to actually delete sections of the PC, so even though that those sections are still listed, they are not in effect.

Just like if you read the sections of the law added by AB962, you'll see that mail-order handgun ammo purchases are banned, even though that that law was tossed out. It doesn't apply to us even though you can still read it in the law.

chead
05-28-2011, 12:29 PM
Lots of gun owners in California don't understand California gun law, and with good reason. It's complex and seemingly intended to be almost impossible to follow correctly and legally. I highly doubt any retailer or distributor that doesn't want to ship to California makes that choice out of malice. Do you really think they, a business, would refuse to take a potential customer's money unless they had real (however unfounded) fears about the legality of shipping to California?

Lord Boling
05-28-2011, 12:34 PM
The Harrott decision determined that the law was "unconstitutionally vague".
However the law is still in effect and is not moot.

chead
05-28-2011, 12:40 PM
The Harrott decision determined that the law was "unconstitutionally vague".
However the law is still in effect and is not moot.

A ruling of "unconstitutionally vague" voids the law.

Lord Boling
05-28-2011, 12:53 PM
A ruling of "unconstitutionally vague" voids the law.

Maybe, but would you like to be a large dealer putting your business on the line hoping that is the case? There is no proof that the law is voided.

And the difference in this case and the case against AB962 is that Judge Jeffrey Hamilton issued an injunction forbidding the state from enforcing the law. I have not heard of an injunction in the case of PC 12276.

chead
05-28-2011, 12:54 PM
Maybe, but would you like to be a large dealer putting your business on the line hoping that is the case? There is no proof that the law is voided.

The law is ruled unconstitutional, it's void. There's no ambiguity about that particular ruling.

ke6guj
05-28-2011, 12:56 PM
as mentioned before, CGF is going to talk to J&G with documentation to show them that the Saigas that they are selling are legal in CA. Once J&G's legal advisors read the Harrott Supreme Court decision, they will know if that section of the law has been vioded or modified.

bwiese
05-29-2011, 9:35 AM
right, but case law moots that section of the PC. Unfortunately the courts do not have the power to actually delete sections of the PC, so even though that those sections are still listed, they are not in effect.

Just like if you read the sections of the law added by AB962, you'll see that mail-order handgun ammo purchases are banned, even though that that law was tossed out. It doesn't apply to us even though you can still read it in the law.

Yep. Invalidated law stays on CA books.

Courts don't get the ability to rewrite [or delete] the bad law on the books, it's just nullified. It would take specific legislative action to pluck the 'copies and duplicates' law from the statutes.

[ This is why NRA/CRPA - thru their Local Action Project - goes around looking for invalid city & county laws still on the books that are either nullified by court ruling or are preempted by state law, and then forces them (thru threat of suit) to pull them [this works at local level]. One perfect example is - or I should say, was :-) - the separate Richmond, CA hicap mag ban. It is also why we went thru OAL to remove a residual proposed rulemaking notice (about proposed reregulation of 'detachable magazine' definition) from DOJ website because even though that activity was dead it had a FUD effect on lawful conduct. ]


The confusion J&G staff is having is thus multi-fold:


they're murky about Saiga being a 'series' member - vs. what permitted 'series' membership really is.
.
they're somehow confused that, in spite of Harrott decision, PC 12276(e)/(f) is still "on the books"
and perhaps thinking that the former somehow should have plucked the latter.

[I do not think this situation is that much different in other states, so I'm wondering if J&G's mistaken
concept of this resulted from the work product of their attorney or not.]

bwiese
05-29-2011, 9:47 AM
Maybe, but would you like to be a large dealer putting your business on the line hoping that is the case? There is no proof that the law is voided.

Yes there is.
Harrott v. County of Kings, 25 P.3d 649, Cal. 2001

A CA Supreme Court decision reshapes or even nullifies CA law on the books: all operative law is a mix of statute, regulation and case law.

And the difference in this case and the case against AB962 is that Judge Jeffrey Hamilton issued an injunction forbidding the state from enforcing the law. I have not heard of an injunction in the case of PC 12276.

The injunction on 962 was specifically requested to stop immediate damage and "market killing".

There was no injunction resulting from (or requested by) Harrott: that case was about an individual getting his rifle back (as payment for legal services) and worked all the way up the chain.

But Harrott indeed did define the make/model standard and invalidated of vague 'series' definition.

We were just too lazy and scared in 2001 to take the ball and run with it further and had to wait til mid 2005 to start 'exercising' it.

350,000 new off-list black rifles sold by CA FFLs in CA proves Harrott holds and is in force. Internal DOJ communications garnered by NRA public record requests revealed the DOJ regards it as such too.

Cyc Wid It
05-29-2011, 1:51 PM
This seems to be a pretty positive response from JG, compared to various members' experiences in the past. Maybe you got lucky with who answered your e-mail? Anyway, Bweise probably has the best shot at convincing them out of anyone, so let's hope for the best.

tonelar
05-29-2011, 2:15 PM
You really don't recognize FUD when you hear it?
Clue #1: If you hear it from someone out of state, it's FUD.

DocClark340
05-29-2011, 3:21 PM
You still owe me dinner for talking you into that. Clown.

How about a big hug and kiss instead.....

I Love you Man!!!!!!!!!

:drool5::drool5:

:King:

EBR Works
05-29-2011, 5:31 PM
This seems to be a pretty positive response from JG, compared to various members' experiences in the past. Maybe you got lucky with who answered your e-mail? Anyway, Bweise probably has the best shot at convincing them out of anyone, so let's hope for the best.

I think most would agree that non-adversarial, logical and empathetic communication works wonders with vendors that are simply cautious of stepping into a minefield, real or perceived. I personally enjoy the challenge of converting them into being friends of California. I'm anxious to hear Bill's after action report.



You really don't recognize FUD when you hear it?
Clue #1: If you hear it from someone out of state, it's FUD.

So, let's stomp on it with education until it dies.

SoCal Bob
05-29-2011, 8:54 PM
I have done business with J&G and appreciated their friendliness in dealing with a California C&R buyer. I believe they are taking a cautious approach but are reasonable people. I can't see them turning their back on legal business but as we well know California has gun laws that don't make sense and an AG's office that traditionally likes to confuse rather than clear up issues.

Give them the benefit of the doubt and help them to understand the nuances of our laws.

Shepherds_Hook_47
05-29-2011, 9:40 PM
Thanks Bill. Please let us know how it goes.

I would really like to see CalGunners all use logical and persuasive communication along with CGF resources to get misinformed dealers like this educated for our benefit rather than complaining endlessly about how they refuse to ship to us. I'm going to make this a personal priority as time allows.

I think J & G sales would be a great resource for you guys out in the peoples republic of CA. Being in AR I don't have that problem. But I understand that
freedom and liberty are very precious to those who have it not, unfortunately more often so than those that have it (or more of it).

hope things get straightened out.

I have done business with J&G and appreciated their friendliness in dealing with a California C&R buyer. I believe they are taking a cautious approach but are reasonable people. I can't see them turning their back on legal business but as we well know California has gun laws that don't make sense and an AG's office that traditionally likes to confuse rather than clear up issues.

Give them the benefit of the doubt and help them to understand the nuances of our laws.

second that one to.....

vincewarde
05-30-2011, 9:01 PM
J&G did respond to my email a few months ago stating that if AB932 went into effect they would honor the C&R exemption and ship to CA. That is much better than many of the online dealers who planned on just nixing all CA sales. It seems to me that they are good at following the letter of the law - they just are not up speed on our court decisions.

In addition, let's remember that they are one of the dealers that sold AK's (under ATF orders) to gun runners in the Gunwalker scandal. Although I am sure they did nothing wrong, I am also sure that they are doing business with the knowledge that they are under a microscope. Nailing them for any violation would muddy the waters, and provide cover for the people behind the scandal.

Capita159
05-31-2011, 12:19 AM
that would be like them banning a Chevrolet Corvette but not banning a Pontiac Corvette.


Actually Pontiac did have a Corvette. It was called the Pontiac Banshee.
Sorry, that was so off topic.

Anyways, I heard from my local gun supplier that ATF wants and to banned the Saiga shotgun.

rromeo
05-31-2011, 3:11 AM
Saiga shotguns are not banned. The prices are even coming back down as they are being imported again.

Briancnelson
05-31-2011, 6:24 AM
Incidentally, there are plenty of cases that state a court ruling of unconstitutionality is equivalent to an injunction against enforcing that law. Thus no reason to issue one. This came up recently in the Obamacare litigation, when the administration was castigated for claiming they could continue to enforce it since he hadn't specifically enjoined them.

bwiese
05-31-2011, 11:13 AM
Folks

I have had a very nice chat with Samuel from J&G. I think they'll take a bit of time to digest the material, and I have told them I'm always available to chat (and can refer them to counsel that will say the same things I say).

Let's not harrass them, they do value CA sales and are nice guys.

EBR Works
05-31-2011, 11:22 AM
Good job Bill!

SoCal Bob
05-31-2011, 11:28 AM
Thank you Bill. They have made me feel welcome when I am there and appear truly pleased to have a C&R customer from California stop by. I will be visiting them in a couple weeks and I think I hear a P1 calling my name. ;)

mif_slim
05-31-2011, 12:03 PM
You mean?:

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l489/daveinwoodland/HeadUpAss_answer_9_xlarge.jpg

Thats pretty deep in... lol!

morrcarr67
05-31-2011, 12:06 PM
Another Thanks Bill. I'm glad you're on our side. :43:

Lord Boling
05-31-2011, 12:13 PM
I do thank you guys for the information you have given me.

Hopefully someday policies can change or better yet, California make gun friendly laws.

bwiese
05-31-2011, 1:06 PM
I do thank you guys for the information you have given me.

Hopefully someday policies can change or better yet, California make gun friendly laws.

We're trying.

As you might know, The Calguns Foundation (CGF) in cooperation with SAF is running two 42 USC 1983 civil rights cases involving CA's AW laws and a variety of DOJ issues in their implementation. I would not be surprised at all if other "big" AW cases come up from other organizations ;) in addition to other future litigation CGF may have.

morrcarr67
05-31-2011, 1:21 PM
I would not be surprised at all if other "big" AW cases come up from other organizations ;) in addition to other future litigation CGF may have.

Music to my ears. :cool:

tonelar
05-31-2011, 1:42 PM
...
Anyways, I heard from my local gun supplier that ATF wants and to banned the Saiga shotgun.

Saiga shotguns are not banned. The prices are even coming back down as they are being imported again.

I'm buying a Saiga12 as soon as theyre back down to $379-$425 again.

Folks

I have had a very nice chat with Samuel from J&G. I think they'll take a bit of time to digest the material, and I have told them I'm always available to chat (and can refer them to counsel that will say the same things I say).

Let's not harrass them, they do value CA sales and are nice guys.

^-THIS! J&G have alwaze been good people to buy certain items from. It'll be great to one day be able to shop their entire inventory. Thanks Bill and EBR.

Can someone see if the OP might be interested in adding a question mark or FUD ALERT to their thread title?

DocClark340
06-01-2011, 4:35 PM
Folks

I have had a very nice chat with Samuel from J&G. I think they'll take a bit of time to digest the material, and I have told them I'm always available to chat (and can refer them to counsel that will say the same things I say).

Let's not harrass them, they do value CA sales and are nice guys.

Thanks you sir,

Its great to hear a strong voice of reason has not fallen on deaf ears after all.....

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

:King:

DocClark340
06-09-2011, 2:11 PM
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/saiga-223-sporter-rifle%2C-tgi-import%2C-new-/products_id/5886?osCsid=8cb40c7fe6382713e8c3ec3ec5874007

Now available to California Residents......

:clap::clap::mnl::mnl::hurray::hurray:

cannon
06-09-2011, 2:55 PM
http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/saiga-223-sporter-rifle%2C-tgi-import%2C-new-/products_id/5886?osCsid=8cb40c7fe6382713e8c3ec3ec5874007

Now available to California Residents......

:clap::clap::mnl::mnl::hurray::hurray:

Outstanding!!!

Compliments to our members and J&G who discussed and sorted this all out.

J&G, May your cash drawer runneth over.

EBR Works
06-09-2011, 3:10 PM
Let's all make an effort to do this as often as possible with other vendors that are misinformed. Make 'em feel the love...;)

.
.
.
.