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View Full Version : AR-308 VS AR-223 weight vs flexibilty


problemchild
05-24-2011, 2:24 PM
So I had to have the meanest baddest AR-308. Now that I have it I learned a lesson. Its heavy, expensive, requires expensive glass and is expensive to shoot. I am contemplating going back to a match version of a AR-223. Something that will tack drive 77gr 223's to 600 yards.

Am I nuts? Man I spent a lot of money. Opinions?

Stone
05-24-2011, 2:34 PM
What is your intended usage? If you want to be accurate at 600+ meters I think .308 would probably be better choice. If you want to be accurate within 500 meters I think .223 is a better choice.

You don't have to build a heavy gun around the .308, that was your choice when you selected your components. Pics?

osis32
05-24-2011, 3:50 PM
You can shave weight but not nearly as easily. Those barrels are dead weight. I like having that .308 punch though so I'll never sell mine. You don't need the best glass I have a 4-16 nikon monarch mildot works good

ZX-10R
05-24-2011, 3:53 PM
I'll take 308 any day.

rareair
05-24-2011, 3:56 PM
Get a minimum of each caliber, that's what I did. And total cost wasn't too much. Just under $9k for the trio
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/RareAirResto/Armory/DSC_2149Large.jpg

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 3:58 PM
So I had to have the meanest baddest AR-308. Now that I have it I learned a lesson. Its heavy, expensive, requires expensive glass and is expensive to shoot. I am contemplating going back to a match version of a AR-223. Something that will tack drive 77gr 223's to 600 yards.

Am I nuts? Man I spent a lot of money. Opinions?

now that you have seen the light a SPR build or something of that nature is probably whats needed...or a PSL...

Steve1968LS2
05-24-2011, 4:02 PM
One round may just be a touch heavier than another (ie, .380 vs .223) but that sure adds up with volume.

I think having a .308 is great since it does some things better than a .223.. BUT if I had to lug a firearm and ammo across country I sure wouldn't choose the .308.. I would most likely choose my 5.7x28 PS90.. I can carry 30% more ammo for the same weight as my .223 and it just makes more sense even though I like my AR more. And good glass for .223 costs the same as for a .308.. it's just that to get the most benefit from the .308 you really need better optics.

I guess you need to decide what you want the firearm for.. the best idea is to have one of each.. lol

tacticalcity
05-24-2011, 4:06 PM
So I had to have the meanest baddest AR-308. Now that I have it I learned a lesson. Its heavy, expensive, requires expensive glass and is expensive to shoot. I am contemplating going back to a match version of a AR-223. Something that will tack drive 77gr 223's to 600 yards.

Am I nuts? Man I spent a lot of money. Opinions?

There is no such thing as a one size fits all tool. It sounds like you are trying to have one rifle that does everything well. There is no such thing.

Precision AR15s are no where near the joy to shoot at long distance as a .308 precision rifle. Just like .308 carbines are no where near the joy to run and gun with as a 5.56mm carbines like the M4. You are picking the wrong tool for the job and trying to force it to work. It might get the job done, but not as well.

That is why I recommend keeping the .308 and build as your precision rifle and then build a second rifle in 5.56mm with strictly CQB in mind. That way you have the right tool for the right job and you will be able to pick and choose the kind of shooting you want to do that day...enjoying both thoroughly.

AR15s are cheaper to build and have many more options. If you have to, buy 1 part at a time. If one month you only have $10 to spend, buy a $10 part. If the next you have $100 spend buy a $100 part. Buy the end of the year you will have a complete rifle in a box. Take the upper to a gunsmith to be sure it is assembled correctly and safe to fire. Cost me $65 when I did this. The lower you can put together yourself.

FYI: I currently own both an M4 and a precision AR15. In the past I have owned longer barrelled precision AR15s than my current one, .308 ARs, and Bolt Action .308 Rifles. When it came to precision shooting the easiest and most enjoyable shooter of the bunch was a Remington 700 5R Milspec .308 Rifle. You simply couldn't miss with that thing. My .308 AR was almost as easy to shoot as far as getting good hits everytime but was a tad less accurate. The precision AR15 takes considerable more effort than both of them. Why do I own the precision AR then? It was a project rifle that I aquired one part at a time like I am suggesting to you. I already had an M4, and an amazing deal on the precision barrel came up that was too good to pass up. That is the only reason.

Hoop
05-24-2011, 5:42 PM
308 is cool but I shoot 223 a lot more. You could build yourself a decent "SPR" type upper for probably 700ish and it'll be plenty accurate. The 18" one I have up for sale is great I just want the $$$$ for optics.

Man I spent a lot of money

Yeah I hear you.

IPSICK
05-24-2011, 6:01 PM
For me I couldn't justify a .308 AR when its primary use would be long(er) range. At the distances I would shoot .308, I don't need it to autoload to be effective. Additionally, a .308 bolt is potentially more accurate.

A.223/5.56 AR is easier to justify because at its effective distances, fast follow-up shots could be useful with an auto loader.

billgato
05-24-2011, 6:16 PM
Get a minimum of each caliber, that's what I did. And total cost wasn't too much. Just under $9k for the trio
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/RareAirResto/Armory/DSC_2149Large.jpg

Hi rareair,

Isn't that rifle on the bottom of your pic an SBR? How does one go about owning a rifle with the same dimensions as yours with a stock? I would love to have a set-up like that for myself.

Thanks.

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 6:30 PM
Hi rareair,

Isn't that rifle on the bottom of your pic an SBR? How does one go about owning a rifle with the same dimensions as yours with a stock? I would love to have a set-up like that for myself.

Thanks.

IIRC from previous posts about that rifle he is a LEO of some sort and actually has a SBR permit here in CA.

Stone
05-24-2011, 6:32 PM
Get a minimum of each caliber, that's what I did. And total cost wasn't too much. Just under $9k for the trio


Did you need to get sherrif's permission for that SBR?

Jpach
05-24-2011, 7:11 PM
Dude, I cant let you get rid of the LMT. Yes, its heavier than a 5.56, but come on! I think the weight is very managable if you dont put a ton of useless **** on it.

I actually sold my SS 3-9 scope and just bought a SS 1-4 because I was having so much fun slaying **** at close ranges with my friends MBUS on top of the LMT. It's such a beast for close in work, and it will do 600 with no problems.

Do the right thing and keep the LMT.

k1dude
05-24-2011, 7:53 PM
Ha! Problemchild, didn't we have an arguement about this a while back in another thread? :)

The weight of the rifle and cartridge is the only reason I've never gone with a .308. I decided to stay with 5.56 for the weight considerations. It'll still do the job most of the time.

There is a happy compromise. I decided on the 6.5 Grendel as my long range AR. The rifle itself weighs the same as any 5.56 AR I own. The cartridge only weighs a tiny bit more. Yet it's performance mirrors the .308 in range, trajectory, and power. The cost of ammo is a little more than .308 if you don't reload, but who's throwing thousands of rounds downrange with either caliber? Not me.

If you reload, 6.5 is pretty reasonable. Even if you don't reload, Wolf makes 6.5 Grendel at pretty damn good prices. You can also use your standard AR-15 uppers and lowers. You only need to switch out your barrel and bolt. Heck, some even use their standard AR-15 mags with a little bit of filing.

Jpach
05-24-2011, 8:05 PM
Howabout you invest in some steroids? And make more money? Lol had to say it

problemchild
05-24-2011, 8:49 PM
I have both guns right now. I built the DD light AR for my wife. She lets me shoot it when I want. I let her play with my big gun when she wants.:D Its a fair trade.

Maybe I will build an AR for myself and keep the 308 or maybe I will build a surgeon-bartlein bolt gun.

http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/ar15/ar15acog.jpg
http://www.michaelkdickson.com/webjunk/LMT/dog%20gun%20acog%20latest/IMG_2227a.jpg

bomb_on_bus
05-24-2011, 9:22 PM
Well I own and shoot both all the time LOL and cant really complain about the difference both platforms have. Both where built for specific purposes in mind.

You could keep shooting the .308 and reload ammo to save on money or maybe cut back on something that your not devoting as much time into. On the flip side you can sell off everything related to the semi auto .308 and devote more time and money into shooting the .223. I guess it all comes down to what you would feel more comfortable with and have more fun doing.

The .308 I built isnt much heavier than the one you have posted and I have shot it all the way out to 1k and couldnt be happier. To get the 5.56 I have to do the same thing would take a lot of reworking which accounts to a lot longer gun length as well as added weight.

The .308 is also a little more user friendly at longer distances as well.

If ya ever do decide to walk away from shooting the .308 semi auto platform you will have plenty of people in line waiting to grab up what ever you have to offer.

battleship
05-24-2011, 9:47 PM
You should of bought a SCAR 17 lite and low recoil.

thrillhouse700
05-24-2011, 11:39 PM
Just shot my .308 this last weekend. I freaking love it. My AR weighs in at just above 7lbs and my .308 AR weighs in at 12lbs with scope. It is not THAT bad.

MrPlink
05-25-2011, 12:38 AM
solved part of this problem with a SCAR17. Weighs about 8lbs stock unloaded, handles like a dream. Cant help the $ $ $ part though...

While I love having a full rife caliber semi auto, Im not going to lie, if (and thats a big IF)
FN ever put out a conversion kit for 7.62x39 (or even 5.56) Id probably pick one up.

But like mentioned, no caliber or gun for that matter will do everything.
Even for me as just a plinker, the variety is great.

xibunkrlilkidsx
05-25-2011, 7:44 AM
id build another AR. i have a rem700 in .308 that i shot for really "precision" times or when i go out to the desert and am able to shot 900yds or more. And i have my ar15 in a SPR style build that i shot a LOT more. ammo is less expensive and at the shorter ranges in typically shot at it still groups really well.
the rem 700 comes in at close to 14lbs and the ar is like 10lbs

rareair
05-25-2011, 12:00 PM
Hi rareair,

Isn't that rifle on the bottom of your pic an SBR? How does one go about owning a rifle with the same dimensions as yours with a stock? I would love to have a set-up like that for myself.

Thanks.

Yes, it's an SBR. I described the process/route I had to specifically take to obtain my paperwork in another thread.

rareair
05-25-2011, 12:02 PM
Did you need to get sherrif's permission for that SBR?

Here in San Diego County, Sheriff Gore is anti-gun so I had to look for another venue