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send it_hit
05-24-2011, 12:36 AM
So I've been considering putting together an AK of some sort... But I am also wondering what kind of accuracy I should expect? Definitely doesn't seem like the kind of gun to put a scope on and expect sub-moa groupings, but I am wondering what those of you who have AK's end up accuracy-wise?

joelogic
05-24-2011, 12:38 AM
3 MOA at 100 yards with Wolf, Iron sight off a bag. 5 MOA off hand. But then again I am not a very good shooter.

send it_hit
05-24-2011, 12:43 AM
cool, thanks joe. neither am i, so that's ok :D

MrPlink
05-24-2011, 12:53 AM
3 MOA at 100 yards with Wolf, Iron sight off a bag. 5 MOA off hand. But then again I am not a very good shooter.

that sounds pretty good to me! Best Ive been able to get was 4moa.



Of course, I think I should legally be declared blind and Im a crap shot as well.

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 12:53 AM
My first hand experience with a WASR 10/63 and a 4moa red dot.
https://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=425962

Sicarius
05-24-2011, 1:10 AM
I find that the a huge accuracy limitation is the AK sights... Not to say that the platform is not lacking a bit but you will probably find a huge improvement just by using a good mount and a red dot.
Kevin

winxp_man
05-24-2011, 1:14 AM
I call them the spray and pray rifles :D





JK they can be accurate if built right.

NorCalDustin
05-24-2011, 1:16 AM
3 MOA at 100 yards with Wolf, Iron sight off a bag. 5 MOA off hand. But then again I am not a very good shooter.
Thats a little better than what I can do..


Just keep in mind however... If you decide to build it yourself... The level of accuracy is probably (to a certain extent) dependent on the time, quality, and attention to detail you put into your AK.

ren
05-24-2011, 6:15 AM
I just switched out my rear sight to a krebs peep sight and waiting to sight it in. like everyone else those rear sights can be tough on your eyes.

23 Blast
05-24-2011, 6:15 AM
With a cheap Tru-Glo red dot (not sure what MOA the dot is), I can easily hit bowling pins at 200 yards (basically every time) with my Arsenal SGL-20. Not too sure what that translates into terms of MOA, but I'm guessing that's about 3-4 MOA.

Sanderhawk
05-24-2011, 6:31 AM
I sight in my target, shoot the first couple rnds then home in with the other 8 rnds. Works pretty good. I did manage to hit a few orange clays we had sitting up on a hill about 100 yards away. But it took a few shots. No scope. If I had a scope the kick of the rifle would probly dent my face.

r3dn3ck
05-24-2011, 6:38 AM
they're combat accurate. Accurate enough to engage human sized targets at up to about 300yards. I wouldn't call it accurate enough for hunting as my hunting guns have to be tack drivers but it's just right for blowing up debris on the range. I like the 7.62x30 round but not most of the guns that it's traditionaly chambered in. AR's in 7.62x39 can be quite accurate so it's not the ammo, it's the gun.

Look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeeeFxA_9nA notice the front sight changes position as the gun fires.

For comparison, watch the muzzle of an AR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REiMv_iC6kM&feature=fvsr

AR's CAN turn in tiny groups. AK's can't.

23 Blast
05-24-2011, 6:56 AM
^ I remember watching all those ultra-slow-motion shots of bullets leaving muzzles on Top Shot, and was always amazed at how much barrel whip there was on many guns (in particular, the M1A) - but the ARs were steady as a rock when the bullets were leaving their muzzles.

ZX-10R
05-24-2011, 6:59 AM
Consistent sub 2 MOA or better for my WASR and as a result, my Daniel Defense M4 is rarely used now. I can pull MOA as well with effort. That is how accurate my AK is. At 150yrds I can tag a target silhouette's head consistently. The round 3 gongs at SLOSA at 125, 150, 175, etc can be hit on command. My AK pattern is very accurate it has a 3x-9x scope.

AirborneStranger
05-24-2011, 8:56 AM
I can't hit **** with my AK. I think it's a combo of the sights (slightly canted) and the gun itself. With my AR I am a decent shot but I just can't do the same with my AK.

CSACANNONEER
05-24-2011, 9:01 AM
Accuracy is all about adjusting sights. Precision is about group size. Moa has NOTHING to do with "accuracy"! So, an AK is as accurate as its sights and the shooter are. I have an AK pistol that can consistantly hit the 200 yard steel at Angeles using surplus ammo.

mif_slim
05-24-2011, 9:05 AM
I once heard a guy behind the counter tell a customer that you can hit a man size target with a AK at 500 yards with ease..I dont know if its true but, the guy bought in and got the gun because he thought it was "accurate.

powderedtoastman
05-24-2011, 9:06 AM
http://www.warriortalknews.com/2011/05/a-picture-worth-1000-words-that-i-know-will-be-very-controversial.html
I have no doubt that Gabe's rifle was built by Jim Fuller, and any rifle I've handled and/or shot that was made by him is absolute top notch.

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 11:45 AM
I once heard a guy behind the counter tell a customer that you can hit a man size target with a AK at 500 yards with ease..I dont know if its true but, the guy bought in and got the gun because he thought it was "accurate.

Thats a correct statement, MAN-SIZED targets. I am able to hit a 10 inch steel plate at 300 yards with my AK about 50% of the time. If I were aiming at a man sized target it would have been 100%.

In my experience it's the stock iron sights and the internet that make people think this rifle couldn't isn't any good past 50 yards. Change your sighting system, either a red dot/scope or peep sights and you will this rifle come to life.

chead
05-24-2011, 11:51 AM
Accurate enough. They are clearly not intended as bench-rest tack-drivers, but you can hit a person at 500 yards. Assuming your sight isn't canted and you zeroed the battle sight properly, the bullets should hit what you're aiming at.

Quickdraw Mcgraw
05-24-2011, 12:15 PM
Assuming your sight isn't canted and you zeroed the battle sight properly, the bullets should hit what you're aiming at.

THIS^^^^ +10000

CSACANNONEER
05-24-2011, 12:22 PM
Accurate enough. They are clearly not intended as bench-rest tack-drivers, but you can hit a person at 500 yards. Assuming your sight isn't canted and you zeroed the battle sight properly, the bullets should hit what you're aiming at.

I agree with everything except the canted sight issue. If you can properly zero the gun, having a canted sight base won't make one bit of difference. As far as 500 yards goes, any non shot out AK should be able to hit a man if the ammo is half azz consistant and the shooter is actually capable of shooting that well.

Dhena81
05-24-2011, 12:24 PM
Consistent sub 2 MOA or better for my WASR and as a result, my Daniel Defense M4 is rarely used now. I can pull MOA as well with effort. That is how accurate my AK is. At 150yrds I can tag a target silhouette's head consistently. The round 3 gongs at SLOSA at 125, 150, 175, etc can be hit on command. My AK pattern is very accurate it has a 3x-9x scope.

Prove it with atleast a 5 shot group I find this hard to believe otherwise a MOA AK.

mif_slim
05-24-2011, 12:57 PM
Thats a correct statement, MAN-SIZED targets. I am able to hit a 10 inch steel plate at 300 yards with my AK about 50% of the time. If I were aiming at a man sized target it would have been 100%.

In my experience it's the stock iron sights and the internet that make people think this rifle couldn't isn't any good past 50 yards. Change your sighting system, either a red dot/scope or peep sights and you will this rifle come to life.

Obviously you havent shot past 300 yards. 500 yards is so diffrent from shooting 300 yards its almost night and day....with a projectile flying at 2400fps being 123gr and its BC isnt that great...I dont think hitting a Man-Size target at 500 yards with EASE would be that Easy..

Can you hit it? Sure. Not with ease though.

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 1:07 PM
Obviously you havent shot past 300 yards. 500 yards is so diffrent from shooting 300 yards its almost night and day....with a projectile flying at 2400fps being 123gr and its BC isnt that great...I dont think hitting a Man-Size target at 500 yards with EASE would be that Easy..

Can you hit it? Sure. Not with ease though.

A true average man sized target 5 foot 11 inches tall and 18 inches wide, yes that will be easy to hit.

Sanderhawk
05-24-2011, 1:49 PM
My AK sight is canted abit but the gun is still accurate if you take the time to aim.

send it_hit
05-24-2011, 2:29 PM
right on, thanks for all the input everyone.

Basically, I don't have an AR or AK. I've wanted to build an AR for awhile, since I've been shooting bolt guns my whole life and want to try something a little different. (I still love shooting bolt action, and am always trying to improve at that.)

I admittedly know little about the AK platform. But I am a sucker for aesthetics and have been seeing a lot of really great looking AK builds around the forums. So my mindset has opened to that option as well.

I do realize they aren't quite equal as far as precision shooting. But I am more interested in something fun. I can try and put tight groups on paper with a bolt rifle. The whole gong/bowlingpin shooting seems like fun, and I specifically remember (I'd cite it if I could find it) a comment someone made on the forums about how they hit a 10" gong at 200yds about 7/10 times. Then pulled out their AR, and hit it %100 of the time. So to them the AK was more fun. More challenge, I suppose.

I hate to piggyback my own thread now, but based on all that stuff I just rambled about, what do you guys think? Would I be happier with an AR or AK for what I want to do? I also am always a fan of something that can double as a home defense weapon, since it'll be in the home anyways.

SJgunguy24
05-24-2011, 2:45 PM
IMO the best thing one can do to an AK to get better shots on target is change out to HK style sights.

AirborneStranger
05-24-2011, 4:03 PM
I would get an AR first, just personal preference. I have both, I find that every time I go out shooting (I go out to the desert) I just plink around with the AK for a bit and then do my real target shooting with my AR. The AK I just like to blast at stuff with and see how much damage it can do to stuff, the AR I actually take the time to aim it and see how far out I can hit.

I never really bother shooting out past 100 yards with the AK, I always know that the AR is more accurate so if I am shooting for distance the AR is always my go-to gun.

You might have a different perspective but in the end you won't regret either purchase, I wouldn't ever consider selling either my AR or my AK.

themailman
05-24-2011, 4:08 PM
Siaga AK, Wolf Surplus, consistent hits on steel at 400 yds and under. AKs are no the end all be all, and they do JAM, but they can be combat accurate in good hands.

C_1
05-24-2011, 4:19 PM
The AK is combat accurate. Sights are crude, but if you do your part, you should be able to hit a man sized target out to 300+ yards.

As for AK or AR? Get both :) Buy a Saiga/WASR and an AR lower at the same time (save money on DROS).

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 4:42 PM
right on, thanks for all the input everyone.

Basically, I don't have an AR or AK. I've wanted to build an AR for awhile, since I've been shooting bolt guns my whole life and want to try something a little different. (I still love shooting bolt action, and am always trying to improve at that.)

I admittedly know little about the AK platform. But I am a sucker for aesthetics and have been seeing a lot of really great looking AK builds around the forums. So my mindset has opened to that option as well.

I do realize they aren't quite equal as far as precision shooting. But I am more interested in something fun. I can try and put tight groups on paper with a bolt rifle. The whole gong/bowlingpin shooting seems like fun, and I specifically remember (I'd cite it if I could find it) a comment someone made on the forums about how they hit a 10" gong at 200yds about 7/10 times. Then pulled out their AR, and hit it %100 of the time. So to them the AK was more fun. More challenge, I suppose.

I hate to piggyback my own thread now, but based on all that stuff I just rambled about, what do you guys think? Would I be happier with an AR or AK for what I want to do? I also am always a fan of something that can double as a home defense weapon, since it'll be in the home anyways.

found it.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=6283197

SuperSet
05-24-2011, 5:14 PM
If you go the AK route, take note that many ranges don't allow steel core ammo. They are fun to dump some rounds into BLM land, though. :)

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 5:19 PM
If you go the AK route, take note that many ranges don't allow steel core ammo. They are fun to dump some rounds into BLM land, though. :)

True, but thankfully Yugo military surplus is brass cased and lead core, so it can be used at any range and its CHEAP!

SuperSet
05-24-2011, 5:32 PM
Sweet! One of my buds is thinking about taking his AK to a local tactical rifle match. Better pass that on to him to make sure he brings the lead core stuff. Luckily, you're only called upon to make shots out to 200-250Y. If it was much further, I'd take my AR every time.

Inquirer
05-24-2011, 8:13 PM
Not to derail the thread here, but how tangible is the accuracy difference gonna be between 5.45 and 7.62? I'm torn between the two chamberings - I like the flatter/cheaper shooting aspect of 5.45 and the punch of 7.62. And also, the corrosive 5.45 thing kinda bugs me. I don't wanna have to clean the damn thing every time otherwise I'd just get an AR.

--Inq

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 8:35 PM
Not to derail the thread here, but how tangible is the accuracy difference gonna be between 5.45 and 7.62? I'm torn between the two chamberings - I like the flatter/cheaper shooting aspect of 5.45 and the punch of 7.62. And also, the corrosive 5.45 thing kinda bugs me. I don't wanna have to clean the damn thing every time otherwise I'd just get an AR.

--Inq

best way to describe the difference: the AK47 shoots patterns, the AK74 shoots groups.

Inquirer
05-24-2011, 9:51 PM
Sorry, that's a bit abstract for me. What's a "pattern" defined as? In terms of MOA, the consensus in this thread is about 2-4 for an AK47, so what would one say an AK74 is?

WTSGDYBBR
05-24-2011, 10:03 PM
Get a AK74 there accuracy is sick 20 times better then a 556

Inquirer
05-24-2011, 10:16 PM
I have a hard time believing that.

pyro3k2
05-24-2011, 10:31 PM
Sorry, that's a bit abstract for me. What's a "pattern" defined as? In terms of MOA, the consensus in this thread is about 2-4 for an AK47, so what would one say an AK74 is?

Top right is a good representation of a pattern and the bottom right is a good representation of a group.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn90/lewis6194/accuracy_vs_precision_556.jpg

chead
05-24-2011, 10:42 PM
And also, the corrosive 5.45 thing kinda bugs me. I don't wanna have to clean the damn thing every time otherwise I'd just get an AR.

I shoot Silver Bear 5.45 which is non-corrosive. If you buy it in bulk it's not much more than the corrosive surplus.

Inquirer
05-24-2011, 11:27 PM
I shoot Silver Bear 5.45 which is non-corrosive. If you buy it in bulk it's not much more than the corrosive surplus.

Isn't Silver Bear bimetal, which in turn is a no go at most ranges? Think I remember somebody saying that in another thread, though I don't know why that's an issue.

chead
05-25-2011, 12:16 AM
Isn't Silver Bear bimetal, which in turn is a no go at most ranges? Think I remember somebody saying that in another thread, though I don't know why that's an issue.

It is but I shoot at a range that has no ammo restrications.

send it_hit
05-25-2011, 12:39 AM
Hm. Looks like I'll be working on an AR first, but definitely going to build an AK... how much have you folks spent converting Saiga's? Seems like such a broad price to do so.

Inquirer
05-25-2011, 12:53 AM
Jacob: Depends how much you wanna spend. Kits here: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories
Don't forget to add in the cost of a bullet button/kydex sheath. Personally, I think I might just get an inspected WASR. Whether I get it in 7.62 or 5.45 is another matter entirely. Still confused on which to get for fun/range/target/cheap/SHTF.

I WANT THE PERFECT GUN AND I WANT IT FOR 600 DOLLARS!

send it_hit
05-25-2011, 1:05 AM
I WANT THE PERFECT GUN AND I WANT IT FOR 600 DOLLARS!


hahaha. man i feel you on that one :(

MrPlink
05-25-2011, 1:32 AM
I WANT THE PERFECT GUN AND I WANT IT FOR 600 DOLLARS!

hope you are ready to buy several perfect guns! It might start at 600, but it wont end there, I promise. :D

Inquirer
05-25-2011, 1:06 PM
I think that in all honesty my perfect gun might just be not an AK but a piston AR with a nice rail system. Too bad they're too expensive. They might not be after all the changes I make to the Saiga/WASR platform. Although I do love the AK, I just like them modded beyond all recognition. :D

pyro3k2
05-25-2011, 1:12 PM
I think that in all honesty my perfect gun might just be not an AK but a piston AR with a nice rail system. Too bad they're too expensive. They might not be after all the changes I make to the Saiga/WASR platform. Although I do love the AK, I just like them modded beyond all recognition. :D

not trying to talk you out of your decision, but how many different types of AK's have you used?

ZX-10R
05-25-2011, 1:13 PM
right on, thanks for all the input everyone.

Basically, I don't have an AR or AK. I've wanted to build an AR for awhile, since I've been shooting bolt guns my whole life and want to try something a little different. (I still love shooting bolt action, and am always trying to improve at that.)

I admittedly know little about the AK platform. But I am a sucker for aesthetics and have been seeing a lot of really great looking AK builds around the forums. So my mindset has opened to that option as well.

I do realize they aren't quite equal as far as precision shooting. But I am more interested in something fun. I can try and put tight groups on paper with a bolt rifle. The whole gong/bowlingpin shooting seems like fun, and I specifically remember (I'd cite it if I could find it) a comment someone made on the forums about how they hit a 10" gong at 200yds about 7/10 times. Then pulled out their AR, and hit it %100 of the time. So to them the AK was more fun. More challenge, I suppose.

I hate to piggyback my own thread now, but based on all that stuff I just rambled about, what do you guys think? Would I be happier with an AR or AK for what I want to do? I also am always a fan of something that can double as a home defense weapon, since it'll be in the home anyways.


I was bolt action and AK style when I first started shooting. Then a buddy in WA got me into ARs. I have had three...After selling my AK in WA, I got another one down here 2.5 years ago. It was a champ. I also got a Daniel Defense M4...Once I was done modding my AK to fit my needs and ergos it shoots like a champ and my AR never gets shot anymore. I love my DD M4...But my AKs are just as accurate (the M4 is still more accurate but just barely) and quite honestly 7.62x39 is more fun and cheaper.

Home defense is my WASR and my M&P 45 combo.

I will say this and it may seem like an expensive proposition but get both. You will like one more than the other. My buddy likes the AR platform more but does enjoy shooting my AK patterns.

Inquirer
05-25-2011, 1:28 PM
not trying to talk you out of your decision, but how many different types of AK's have you used?

None, haven't we been over this in another thread?

pyro3k2
05-25-2011, 1:36 PM
None, haven't we been over this in another thread?

probably so, maybe I forgot :shrug: but if you ever find yourself in the fresno area let me know I'll let your try out my various AK's if you'd like.

luckystrike
05-25-2011, 1:50 PM
I can hit steel at 600yrds 30-40%. Arsenal SGL

Ready4whenSHTF
05-25-2011, 2:48 PM
9 out of 10 people will tell you their AK is about a 4 moa rifle but theres always the one with sniper ak getting 1 moa. Get an AR.

pyro3k2
05-25-2011, 3:12 PM
9 out of 10 people will tell you their AK is about a 4 moa rifle but theres always the one with sniper ak getting 1 moa. Get an AR.

I have an AK that shoots 1.5MOA every day of the week, it just happens to be in 7.62x54r but an AK none the less.

CSACANNONEER
05-25-2011, 3:59 PM
9 out of 10 people will tell you their AK is about a 4 moa rifle but theres always the one with sniper ak getting 1 moa. Get an AR.

And, what does moa have to do with "accuracy"?

Ready4whenSHTF
05-25-2011, 4:37 PM
Here we go with whole precise, accurate, terminology. You semantics scholars should have more important things to worry about.

pyro3k2
05-25-2011, 6:02 PM
Here we go with whole precise, accurate, terminology. You semantics scholars should have more important things to worry about.

http://www.zgeek.com/forum/gallery/files/1/7/9/1/0/troll_fail.jpg

Ready4whenSHTF
05-25-2011, 6:20 PM
Dont be upset that your ak is not precise and with you shooting it pyro, it's probably not accurate either.

CSACANNONEER
05-25-2011, 7:28 PM
Here we go with whole precise, accurate, terminology. You semantics scholars should have more important things to worry about.

So, go ahead and teach people the incorrect terminology. Then, they can sound as ignorant as someone talks about loading an assault bannana clip into a high powered rimfire assault weapon with a pistol grip that allows the shooter to shoot contineously without having to reload and a flash hider which makes them invisible.

Dont be upset that your ak is not precise and with you shooting it pyro, it's probably not accurate either.

Obviously, every firearm will shoot to a certain level of precision. If a gun is not accurate, all it takes is a simple sight adjustment.

pyro3k2
05-25-2011, 7:28 PM
Dont be upset that your ak is not precise and with you shooting it pyro, it's probably not accurate either.

http://www.dailyrandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/iXPNO.jpg

blazeaglory
05-25-2011, 7:53 PM
Jacob: Depends how much you wanna spend. Kits here: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories
Don't forget to add in the cost of a bullet button/kydex sheath. Personally, I think I might just get an inspected WASR. Whether I get it in 7.62 or 5.45 is another matter entirely. Still confused on which to get for fun/range/target/cheap/SHTF.

I WANT THE PERFECT GUN AND I WANT IT FOR 600 DOLLARS!

the new saigas have compliant trigger groups and stamped receivers. some dont mind, but id rather wait for the ban to lift and buy my mak90 or SLR 95.

if you buy a saiga or WASR, i would upgrade the trigger group. or try to find a better AK to start with.. i dont know if any company's still make milled AK receivers or thick stamped receivers but i wouldn't want a tacked together flimsy AK with a slap happy trigger. i dont know, thats just me and some things ive heard. i would like to shoot one to compare to the mak90 or SLR

build a shorty AK "pistol" for the wam bamming and build an AR15 for the real shooting. if all else fails you can always snipe someone with your AR15 and take their AK...a joke, im not serious. dont "snipe" ANYONE

AR for tight groups.. shorty AK to hang under your coat from your shoulder while your AR is strapped to your back when SHTF

Jpach
05-25-2011, 8:08 PM
With my AK-74, pretty good. With my buddies ex-Romy G....horrible. Im talking like barely on the big *** target at 100 yards. It was disgusting, and my buddy sold it shortly after. It was a very pretty rifle though, he built it himself.

Inquirer
05-25-2011, 9:08 PM
Here we go with whole precise, accurate, terminology. You semantics scholars should have more important things to worry about.

You had 14 posts when I last logged on. You probably shouldn't be insulting established people of whom you're asking advice (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=437225) on a forum community you're new to.

9 out of 10 people will tell you their AK is about a 4 moa rifle but theres always the one with sniper ak getting 1 moa. Get an AR.

Judging by your thread about carbon fiber ARs (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=437225) - you don't own an AR. Why are you advising people when you don't even know yourself what to get? I'm new, but I do my research and I try not to talk out of turn. That's why (I think) the guys like me and have had offers to shoot their rifles even though I'm an aesthetics-oriented, minute-detail-question-asking firearm rookie. Because I listen when the people who know are talking.

Methinks you could learn from the following:
WCyJRXvPNRo


http://www.dailyrandom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/iXPNO.jpg
LOL. C'est finite.

pyro3k2
05-25-2011, 9:46 PM
the new saigas have compliant trigger groups and stamped receivers. some dont mind, but id rather wait for the ban to lift and buy my mak90 or SLR 95.

if you buy a saiga or WASR, i would upgrade the trigger group. or try to find a better AK to start with..i dont know if any company's still make milled AK receivers or thick stamped receivers but i wouldn't want a tacked together flimsy AK with a slap happy trigger. i dont know, thats just me and some things ive heard. i would like to shoot one to compare to the mak90 or SLR

build a shorty AK "pistol" for the wam bamming and build an AR15 for the real shooting. if all else fails you can always snipe someone with your AR15 and take their AK...a joke, im not serious. dont "snipe" ANYONE

AR for tight groups.. shorty AK to hang under your coat from your shoulder while your AR is strapped to your back when SHTF

Most of your post is entirely personal preference and there is no arguing that, except for this statement. 100% of the "top tier" AK's start out life as a Saiga ie Krebs, Arsenal, KA arms, and so on. There is no better AK to start with than a real russian made AK. If the russians don't know how to build an AK then we must be in a twilight zone episode or something. Btw that SLR-95 started life as a saiga. The only flimsy tacked together AK's you describe are the I.O. CASAR's even a crap-tastic WASR 10/63 will look like a Benz in comparison.

Milled AK:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct876.aspx

Inquirer
05-25-2011, 10:00 PM
the new saigas have compliant trigger groups and stamped receivers. some dont mind, but id rather wait for the ban to lift and buy my mak90 or SLR 95.

if you buy a saiga or WASR, i would upgrade the trigger group. or try to find a better AK to start with.. i dont know if any company's still make milled AK receivers or thick stamped receivers but i wouldn't want a tacked together flimsy AK with a slap happy trigger. i dont know, thats just me and some things ive heard. i would like to shoot one to compare to the mak90 or SLR

WASRs come with the most common trigger upgrade to any AK platform - the Tapco G2 - for compliance purposes, unless I'm mistaken.

As per: here (http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct962.aspx).

Ready4whenSHTF
05-25-2011, 10:08 PM
EDIT: Lighten up Francis - QBG

resident-shooter
05-25-2011, 10:18 PM
The AK is an accurate and powerful enough gun. What is often lacking is good ammo. Most people shoot some crappy аss surplus through it and then say its not accurate. Well of course.... The sights are OK, but even a 4X32 sight would be a big improvement.

Inquirer
05-25-2011, 10:26 PM
You don't need to keep posting my information. It's called a Public Profile for a reason. Also, *ahem*, Moderator?

send it_hit
05-26-2011, 1:32 AM
2 things never fail in threads i start:

somehow, my questions are always answered.

they become mudslinging wars.

for the former, i thank you all :D

Inquirer
05-26-2011, 2:18 AM
2 things never fail in threads i start:

somehow, my questions are always answered.

they become mudslinging wars.

for the former, i thank you all :D

I tried, brother. Hopefully the Saiga Conversion and Henderson links helped out a bit. From what I've gleaned in my short time on this forum, if you go the Saiga route a Carolina Shooter's Supply conversion kit (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories) is a solid bet, and if you get a WASR get an inspected one (http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-Rifles-and-Carbines-c50.htm) if you don't get the opportunity to inspect one yourself. Cheers.

send it_hit
05-26-2011, 2:59 AM
I tried, brother. Hopefully the Saiga Conversion and Henderson links helped out a bit. From what I've gleaned in my short time on this forum, if you go the Saiga route a Carolina Shooter's Supply conversion kit (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-CONVERSION-KITS-cln-SAIGA-223%2C-5.45%2C-7.62%2C-308/Categories) is a solid bet, and if you get a WASR get an inspected one (http://www.hendersondefense.com/store/pc/AK47-Rifles-and-Carbines-c50.htm) if you don't get the opportunity to inspect one yourself. Cheers.

Sweet, I appreciate the info. :cheers2:

jgraham15
05-26-2011, 3:40 AM
I love my AR's but one of these days I WILL add an AK to the collection! I'm not sure what it is about them but they seem to be calling to me.

blazeaglory
05-26-2011, 9:54 AM
Most of your post is entirely personal preference and there is no arguing that, except for this statement. 100% of the "top tier" AK's start out life as a Saiga ie Krebs, Arsenal, KA arms, and so on. There is no better AK to start with than a real russian made AK. If the russians don't know how to build an AK then we must be in a twilight zone episode or something. Btw that SLR-95 started life as a saiga. The only flimsy tacked together AK's you describe are the I.O. CASAR's even a crap-tastic WASR 10/63 will look like a Benz in comparison.

Milled AK:
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct876.aspx

i dont have much of a problem with saiga and i know arsenal is saiga. i was basing my comparisons off of an slr95 and mak90...

yes i know the eastern bloc makes the best AK's but doesnt US regulations under 922 or whatever the hell code state that there has to be at least 5 american made parts on imported weapons? or to that affect. i read that Saigas and WASR replace the russian romanian trigger groups with american made ones before they sell them as an easy way to comply..if im wrong, im wrong. i guess tapco g2 isnt bad...

http://www.ak47world.com/rifles.html

oh thanks for that link BTW. that is a nice AK

rojocorsa
05-26-2011, 10:24 AM
"Accuracy" is over-rated, IMHO.

pyro3k2
05-26-2011, 12:06 PM
i dont have much of a problem with saiga and i know arsenal is saiga. i was basing my comparisons off of an slr95 and mak90...

yes i know the eastern bloc makes the best AK's but doesnt US regulations under 922 or whatever the hell code state that there has to be at least 5 american made parts on imported weapons? or to that affect. i read that Saigas and WASR replace the russian romanian trigger groups with american made ones before they sell them as an easy way to comply..if im wrong, im wrong. i guess tapco g2 isnt bad...

http://www.ak47world.com/rifles.html

oh thanks for that link BTW. that is a nice AK

Yes 922(r) does still apply, but in terms of the TAPCO fire control group it really doesn't get much better without spending a ton of money.

CSACANNONEER
05-26-2011, 2:01 PM
EDIT: Lighten up Francis - QBG

I knew I'd miss something good if I went to bed early last night. Anyway, THANKS QBG!

norcal-ar
05-26-2011, 9:44 PM
in one of the "book of the ak47" magazines i seen that I.O. was saying some of their models are capable of 1 m.o.a. I really find that hard to believe but just thought id throw it out there.