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pbdrunks
05-23-2011, 3:26 PM
I was wondering if I can keep loaded firearms in my safe. If not can I keep loaded clips in my safe? Also what is the legal method of transporting firearms with ammo to the range?

Thanks!

Roddd
05-23-2011, 4:18 PM
In your safe at home?

ironcross
05-23-2011, 4:24 PM
I think he is talking about a small portable safe for his vehicle?

Roddd
05-23-2011, 4:27 PM
I dunno, hopefully he chimes in before I start drinking.

pbdrunks
05-23-2011, 5:41 PM
Sorry the safe I am talking about is a big 5 foot tall one bolted down in my garage.

Falconis
05-23-2011, 6:50 PM
You can keep whatever you want in your safe at home. empty and locked container for transportation.

pbdrunks
05-23-2011, 6:54 PM
Thanks

tyrist
05-23-2011, 7:01 PM
Not a good idea to put a safe especially a cheap one in your garage. It's very easy to break into a garage. It's also extremely easy to open up garage doors. There is a ton of space which makes it no trouble to remove and load the safe into a vehicle.

Sniper3142
05-23-2011, 7:33 PM
1. I'd get a better safe since its in your garage. If that isn't an option in the near future, make sure the safe can't be seen from the street.

2. You can keep almost anything you want in your safe, including a midget (as long as you feed and water it regularly). ;)

Yugo
05-23-2011, 7:35 PM
cant keep the clips they are AGAINST the law!!! But magazines are ok! :D

pbdrunks
05-23-2011, 7:55 PM
im not worried about the safe in my garage but thanks for the info and advice. so let me get this straight i can have loaded firearms in my safe. i can transport firearms in my vehicle to the range as long as they are locked. can i have loaded magazines in the car also? can i have loaded firearms in the car as long as they are locked?

Casual_Shooter
05-23-2011, 8:02 PM
Loaded, unloaded etc in your safe= Fine.

Unloaded, locked in a case in your car= Fine.

Loaded magazines locked in a case in your car (but not in a firearm) = Fine

Unloaded firearm, loaded magazines (but not inserted into the firearm) in the same locked case in your car= Fine

Loaded in your car, locked up or otherwise... not fine.

*disclaimer*- I'm not an LEO, but I've learned the above from others asking the same question on this forum.

pbdrunks
05-23-2011, 8:07 PM
Loaded, unloaded etc in your safe= Fine.

Unloaded, locked in a case in your car= Fine.

Loaded magazines locked in a case in your car (but not in a firearm) = Fine

Unloaded firearm, loaded magazines (but not inserted into the firearm) in the same locked case in your car= Fine

Loaded in your car, locked up or otherwise... not fine.

*disclaimer*- I'm not an LEO, but I've learned the above from others asking the same question on this forum.

thanks for clearing that up.

tony270
05-23-2011, 8:22 PM
I’m not giving legal advice and I’m not a LEO, I’m just rambling.

As long as you don’t have children in the home you can keep your firearms loaded and at the ready, and if the garage or building can be secured and is attached to the home you can do whatever you want, not in detached garages or out buildings

The Dangerous Weapons CPC 12025; http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html

For the most part 12025 regulate concealable firearms, not long guns. You can legally carry a unloaded long gun with a loaded clip or ammo in your vehicle but they can't be concealed, there are some exceptions to this law as well as other restrictions (it is always unlawful to carry or possess firearms within 1000 feet of a K-12 school).

This is the link to the CPC 12027 Exemption to the Dangerous Weapons Law:
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html

It is still legal to carry a concealable firearm in a vehicle with or without a loaded magazine as long as the concealable firearm is unloaded and in a locked container, a lockable container could be a lockable backpack, but not the vehicles trunk, glove box, or center counsel, don’t use those as a lockable container. Rule #1. never submit to searches of your person or property, but don't argue.

Always take into account that different public municipalities and agencies administer public land differently, some laws differ from the State, so know the rules or you might be sorry, even Federal land is regulated differently.

That will all soon to change when AB144 ends up on the Governors desk and he signs it.
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

pbdrunks
05-23-2011, 8:30 PM
:pIím not giving legal advice and Iím not a LEO, Iím just rambling.

As long as you donít have children in the home you can keep your firearms loaded and at the ready, and if the garage or building can be secured and is attached to the home you can do whatever you want, not in detached garages or out buildings

The Dangerous Weapons CPC 12025; http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12025.html

For the most part 12025 regulate concealable firearms, not long guns. You can legally carry a unloaded long gun with a loaded clip or ammo in your vehicle but they can't be concealed, there are some exceptions to this law as well as other restrictions (it is always unlawful to carry or possess firearms within 1000 feet of a K-12 school).

This is the link to the CPC 12027 Exemption to the Dangerous Weapons Law:
http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html

It is still legal to carry a concealable firearm in a vehicle with or without a loaded magazine as long as the concealable firearm is unloaded and in a locked container, a lockable container could be a lockable backpack, but not the vehicles trunk, glove box, or center counsel, donít use those as a lockable container. Rule #1. never submit to searches of your person or property, but don't argue.

Always take into account that different public municipalities and agencies administer public land differently, some laws differ from the State, so know the rules or you might be sorry, even Federal land is regulated differently.

That will all soon to change when AB144 ends up on the Governors desk and he signs it.
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/faq.html

http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

thanks!

Notorious
05-24-2011, 7:35 AM
Long guns don't have to be locked, no? Also, the trunk itself is considered a locking container. So you technically don't need another locking case inside the trunk. It jus makes it easier for you to get the gun out of the trunk if you have another container.

tony270
05-24-2011, 8:07 AM
Remember I'm not giving legal advice, just rambling.

No, long guns don't need to in a locked container, but they can't be concealed, the magazines can't be concealed either. The vehicles trunk, glove box, or center counsel is not a lockable container, you need a separate lockable container for concealable firearms.

You could use a lockable backpack as a container.

Long guns don't have to be locked, no? Also, the trunk itself is considered a locking container. So you technically don't need another locking case inside the trunk. It jus makes it easier for you to get the gun out of the trunk if you have another container.

tony270
05-24-2011, 8:10 AM
For the most part concealable firearms= handguns.

Tallship
05-24-2011, 10:57 AM
The vehicles trunk, glove box, or center counsel is not a lockable container, you need a separate lockable container for concealable firearms.

The vehicle's trunk IS a locked container, therefore any firearm in the trunk, as long as it's not loaded, is OK.

pbdrunks
05-24-2011, 11:03 AM
lol is there ant LOE's that actually respond here?

tony270
05-24-2011, 11:23 AM
The trunk of a vehicle is not a locked container. You could be cited for carrying a concealed weapon if Johnny Law finds a concealable firearm in the trunk, the center counsel, or the glove box.

Never consent to searches of your person or property and you don’t have to show ID if you’re not in a vehicle. The State of California isn’t a state that you are requires to show ID. If I’m stopped on foot by a LEO and questions start to fly, I will ask if I am free to leave or am I being detained, I don’t say anything else.
You are required to show ID during a traffic stop, but you don’t have to submit to searches during a traffic stop.


The vehicle's trunk IS a locked container, therefore any firearm in the trunk, as long as it's not loaded, is OK.

tony270
05-24-2011, 11:30 AM
They won't respond because most of them don't want us to have firearms and what I'm writing is the truth. If what I am writing was untrue, believe me someone would respond. You might not know this, but most officers donít take the time to study the Laws they enforce. What Iím writing surprises them when they find out itís true too.

lol is there ant LOE's that actually respond here?

pbdrunks
05-24-2011, 12:23 PM
anyway my questions were answered thanks all.

Steveo8
05-24-2011, 1:16 PM
You know if you were to check some of the other sections of this forum you would know the answer has been given in this thread by a LEO. And by Tony's own admittance he is not a LEO.

SOcal
05-24-2011, 1:33 PM
The trunk of your vehicle IS A LOCKED CONTAINER. Your center console, glove box ARE NOT LOCKED CONTAINERS. Handguns must be stored unloaded in a LOCKED container when being transported in your vehicle. Long guns are not required to be stored in locked containers when being transported, but are required to be unloaded. Long guns CAN be "concealed" in your vehicle, ie, on the floor under a cover, in a case, under the rear seat, in fact, handguns stored properly in locked containers can also be stored "concealed" in your vehicle, the general rule of thumb is to have no shooting gear, gun cases, etc visible if someone were to look in through your windows. A visible gun case, ammo boxes, gun parts, etc. is a recipe for unwanted attention... Hope that clears this up. And I am also not a lawyer....

Most of the answers to this question can be answered by searching through the archives, there are hundreds and hundreds of threads covering this.

Cheers!

The trunk of a vehicle is not a locked container. You could be cited for carrying a concealed weapon if Johnny Law finds a concealable firearm in the trunk, the center counsel, or the glove box.

Never consent to searches of your person or property and you don’t have to show ID if you’re not in a vehicle. The State of California isn’t a state that you are requires to show ID. If I’m stopped on foot by a LEO and questions start to fly, I will ask if I am free to leave or am I being detained, I don’t say anything else.
You are required to show ID during a traffic stop, but you don’t have to submit to searches during a traffic stop.

Tallship
05-24-2011, 3:56 PM
And just in case, Tony, you don't believe what you've been told, here is the relevant PC section:

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.

You may want to apologize.

Tacit Blue
05-24-2011, 4:00 PM
Would the trunk principle still apply if the car is a SUV? In other words the trunk is accessible to the passengers?

tony270
05-24-2011, 4:06 PM
These laws have been tested, and it has been found that an automobile’s trunk is not a locked container. The case law is readily available on opencarry.org for both of these issues.
People have been convicted for using the trunk as a lockable container for concealable firearms. And you can't legal conceal a long gun in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. The exemption I use for that is 12027 (g):
Going to and from a Fishing or Hunting Expedition you can legally carry unloaded and concealed firearns in a vehicle, and with some exceptions while in the act of fishing and or hunting the firearm may be concealed and loaded.


The trunk of your vehicle IS A LOCKED CONTAINER. Your center console, glove box ARE NOT LOCKED CONTAINERS. Handguns must be stored unloaded in a LOCKED container when being transported in your vehicle. Long guns are not required to be stored in locked containers when being transported, but are required to be unloaded. Long guns CAN be "concealed" in your vehicle, ie, on the floor under a cover, in a case, under the rear seat, in fact, handguns stored properly in locked containers can also be stored "concealed" in your vehicle, the general rule of thumb is to have no shooting gear, gun cases, etc visible if someone were to look in through your windows. A visible gun case, ammo boxes, gun parts, etc. is a recipe for unwanted attention... Hope that clears this up. And I am also not a lawyer....

Most of the answers to this question can be answered by searching through the archives, there are hundreds and hundreds of threads covering this.

Cheers!

SOcal
05-24-2011, 4:08 PM
Would the trunk principle still apply if the car is a SUV? In other words the trunk is accessible to the passengers?

No, an SUV does not constitute a trunk. A "trunk" for the purposes we are discussing is a locked area of the vehicle, not readily accessible by passengers or the driver. If you had a solid divider in your SUV that partitioned off the rear area from the passenger compartment you might be ok, but generally speaking, a trunk is a trunk, like you find on your standard passenger car.

SOcal
05-24-2011, 4:16 PM
These laws have been tested, and it has been found that an automobileís trunk is not a locked container. The case law is readily available on opencarry.org for both of these issues.
People have been convicted for using the trunk as a lockable container for concealable firearms. And you can't legal conceal a long gun in the passenger compartment of a vehicle. The exemption I use for that is 12027 (g):
Going to and from a Fishing or Hunting Expedition you can legally carry unloaded and concealed firearns in a vehicle, and with some exceptions while in the act of fishing and or hunting the firearm can be concealed and loaded.

I'm sorry brother but your completely wrong. You most certainly CAN have a long gun laying unloaded, cased or uncased in the back seat of your SUV, you can cover it, uncover it.... no prob. Most folks cover up their gear as I mentioned earlier to avoid unnecessary situations. The whole thing you are referring to as "concealed" is irrelevant for long guns and just makes no sense at all... when a rifle is in a case it is concealed from view. Generally the term "concealed" is used when referring to one carrying a weapon capable of being concealed on one's person (ie, handgun) .... Long guns are not concealable.

Tacit Blue
05-24-2011, 4:17 PM
Thats what i thought too, that would be too easy of a ' loop hole' to not be corrected.

Thanks much!

tony270
05-24-2011, 4:22 PM
http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf



The second common mistake is confusing or combining 12026.1 and 12026.2. 12026.1 simply states that 12025 does not apply
when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicleís trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle. There are no
location or deviation restrictions in 12026.1. 12026.2 is another (separate) list of exemptions to 12025, all but one of which
(motion picture) are transporting exemptions. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 is not specific to motor vehicles. It can therefore be
applied to all other forms of transportation, e.g., walking, bicycling, public transportation. Unlike 12026.1, 12026.2 does limit the
transport exemptions from any unnecessary deviations.
Another common misconception is the belief that ammunition cannot be stored in the same case as a firearm, or that it must be
locked up separately somehow. This is not true. There is no code to support this myth. See the second page of this flyer for
more information about loaded firearms.

mej16489
05-24-2011, 4:26 PM
These laws have been tested, and it has been found that an automobileís trunk is not a locked container. The case law is readily available on opencarry.org for both of these issues.


I don't believe what you are stating is anywhere on the OCDO CA forum. If it is, please post a link here and I'll see to it that it gets corrected.

SOcal
05-24-2011, 4:34 PM
Tony - that link to open carry you posted spells it out pretty clearly.

...12025 does not apply when transporting a handgun in a motor vehicle’s trunk, or in a locked container in or to/from a motor vehicle.


Note: PC 12025 and 12026 apply only to concealed handguns. There are no restrictions on carrying rifles or shotguns in these sections. They can be transported unlocked, openly or concealed.

12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or is
temporarily within this state … from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the
person, provided that the following applies to the firearm:

(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility
or glove compartment.

bcj128
05-24-2011, 5:44 PM
As an LEO, I'm pretty lenient on people transporting their guns to/from the range. I don't expect them to keep it in a locked container if it's in the back of their SUV...I just don't believe the intent of the law was to jam up people who are just trying to transport their gun to the range. HOWEVER...

I do have an issue with loaded guns in the car...just sayin'. I wish we had better CCW laws, it would make ALL of our lives a bunch easier. That would stop the open carry debate, and let law abiding citizens defend themselves and take a little personal responsibility for their own self preservation. Unfortunately, I can't always divine from the tea leaves who is the good guy who made a mistake, or the bad guy looking to do something nefarious.

I have issues with Felons with guns in their car (loaded, unloaded, locked, unlocked, etc.)

Moral of the story, reform our CCW laws and train those who get them to be responsibly armed citizens, hold the individuals accountable if they screw up.

Shinobi'sZ
05-24-2011, 9:56 PM
As an LEO, I'm pretty lenient on people transporting their guns to/from the range. I don't expect them to keep it in a locked container if it's in the back of their SUV...I just don't believe the intent of the law was to jam up people who are just trying to transport their gun to the range. HOWEVER...

I do have an issue with loaded guns in the car...just sayin'. I wish we had better CCW laws, it would make ALL of our lives a bunch easier. That would stop the open carry debate, and let law abiding citizens defend themselves and take a little personal responsibility for their own self preservation. Unfortunately, I can't always divine from the tea leaves who is the good guy who made a mistake, or the bad guy looking to do something nefarious.

I have issues with Felons with guns in their car (loaded, unloaded, locked, unlocked, etc.)

Moral of the story, reform our CCW laws and train those who get them to be responsibly armed citizens, hold the individuals accountable if they screw up.

I am an ex LEO with many LEO friends including two Sheriff's in two separate Counties. I agree with everything you have stated.

However people need to protect themselves from the inevitable cop having a bad day..you know the guy whose wife just left him or some other personal issue...because at the end COPs are people too just like anybody else.

So if an LEO did find a concealable weapon in an SUV or Truck...which I believe is also defined by the overall length (could be wrong on that though), lets say in fact driving to the range...the owner could still get into trouble.

If you own an SUV or Truck it is simple, to transport handguns you need a locking case. If driving a car with a trunk, you can place it in the trunk with no issue.

Long guns can be placed wherever unloaded.

The one guy that referenced hunting and fishing trips I believe is 100% correct and IIRC is listed under the Fish and Game code somewhere..it's been awhile since I've seen it.

Packy14
05-24-2011, 10:11 PM
As long as there is not a passthrough or access to a trunk firearm, the trunk functions as a locked case. If the seats fold down, as long as its not doable from inside the car (trunk latches) that is ok as well.

SOcal
05-24-2011, 11:10 PM
I am an ex LEO with many LEO friends including two Sheriff's in two separate Counties. I agree with everything you have stated.

However people need to protect themselves from the inevitable cop having a bad day..you know the guy whose wife just left him or some other personal issue...because at the end COPs are people too just like anybody else.

So if an LEO did find a concealable weapon in an SUV or Truck...which I believe is also defined by the overall length (could be wrong on that though), lets say in fact driving to the range...the owner could still get into trouble.

If you own an SUV or Truck it is simple, to transport handguns you need a locking case. If driving a car with a trunk, you can place it in the trunk with no issue.

Long guns can be placed wherever unloaded.

The one guy that referenced hunting and fishing trips I believe is 100% correct and IIRC is listed under the Fish and Game code somewhere..it's been awhile since I've seen it.

Well stated!

Also, aside from the random cop just having a bad day, you also must be aware that not all cops are aware of all the intricacies of the law. The variance in responses (both fact and false) to the op proves this clearly. It is truly unfortunate that the laws are so convoluted and confusing these days... nothing is simple...

retired
05-25-2011, 11:06 AM
Tony, numerous leos have told you you are wrong, but you continue to state it is illegal to carry a unloaded firearm in the trunk. Let me add my voice as a retired leo,to support those leos, tho they don't need it, you are incorrect.

This is taken from the following website:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

Here is the section that applies in this case and is the exception to 12025:

the firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container
in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment,

Also, you completely missed this part of 12026.1 that you quoted:

provided that the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than the utility or glove compartment.

As you said, you are not a leo and I will assume since you have not stated otherwise; you are not a criminal defense attorney nor an ADA either. Since that is the case, please do not continue to give incorrect information to someone who is asking for correct information. Thank you.

tony270
05-25-2011, 11:31 AM
I admit that I was mistaken about a vehicle’s trunk not being considered a locked container, the way the law is written that’s not hard to do and I apologize for that.
Well at least I didn’t recommend something illegal.

tony270
05-25-2011, 11:34 AM
I am an ex LEO with many LEO friends including two Sheriff's in two separate Counties. I agree with everything you have stated.

However people need to protect themselves from the inevitable cop having a bad day..you know the guy whose wife just left him or some other personal issue...because at the end COPs are people too just like anybody else.

So if an LEO did find a concealable weapon in an SUV or Truck...which I believe is also defined by the overall length (could be wrong on that though), lets say in fact driving to the range...the owner could still get into trouble.

If you own an SUV or Truck it is simple, to transport handguns you need a locking case. If driving a car with a trunk, you can place it in the trunk with no issue.

Long guns can be placed wherever unloaded.

The one guy that referenced hunting and fishing trips I believe is 100% correct and IIRC is listed under the Fish and Game code somewhere..it's been awhile since I've seen it.

http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html


(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

retired
05-25-2011, 11:56 AM
I admit that I was mistaken about a vehicleís trunk not being considered a locked container, the way the law is written thatís not hard to do and I apologize for that.
Well at least I didnít recommend something illegal.

Thanks Tony.

Notorious
05-25-2011, 9:55 PM
lol is there ant LOE's that actually respond here?

Many already have, including me. It's LEO, not LOE, btw.